Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

[Sterling1]

Got these websites for pictures:
http://naphotos.nerail.org/
http://www.railpictures.net/
For SE Missouri: http://www.trainweb.org/semorails
http://www.railfan.net/
For New England: http://www.railfanzone.com/index.php

Matt

[Sterling1]

Through the group that I am afiliated with I found this website for EMD, GE and Alco loco specs: http://www.geocities.com/guilford_350
and this one for rolling stock and loco rosters: http://www.freewebs.com/railine/index.htm
Matt

[Sterling1]

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

[Sterling1]

Why did I forget that Wabtec and MPI were related? Hmmm I didn't read my sources . . .
Here's Wabtec's website:
http://www.wabtec.com/railroad/locomotive.asp

[edblysard]

http://yardlimit.railfan.net/mk/
http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/switcher/gp20d/

Try these...
The top link has a lot of info and some photos for the MK/MPI version.
The bottom link is GM/EMD's site.

What did you want to know about the MK1500D?
I ride on one every day....

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&sort=D&output=3&cmdtext=%22ANDERSON%2C+NORMAN+E.%22

This link has several articles on MK Rail (MPI, Boise Locomotive, pick a name[:D])

Ed

[daveklepper]

Little Joes were not, as I remember, significantly more powerful hp-wise than a GG-1, nor more tractive effort than a GG-1 with lower speed freight gearing or than particularly the New Haven's last freight electrics before the ex-Virginians. I think they were EF-3's. They were very powerful, more powerful than the rectifier ex-Virginians by quite a bit, with a short time horsepower about 9000. They had enough tractive effort to handle anything, singly, the New Haven put behind them on the Hell Gate Bridge grades, probably the most tractive effort of any electric anywhere. Same wheel arrangement, 4-6-6-4. Occasionally, they were used on Penn Station passenger trains, and three or four had train boilers installed, but not originally. Their top speed was only 60mph, not to say that some engineers didn't take a chance and exceed the speed on occasion. They had streamlined double-end body like the EP-4 passenger 4-6-6-4 locomotives.
They may in fact have been North America's most powerful practical locomotive! They were never equipped with 3rd rail shoes and could only work off 11000V 25cps AC catenary. Everyone knowledgeable agrees McGinnis was wrong to scrap them, resulting from you know who's bad advice as part of the second order for FL-9's. They were really just great locomotives in every way. The cabs were a lot better for the engineers than the GG-1's which were really rather primitive.

[Sterling1]

I found a listing on this website on MP and MK units:
http://membrane.com/~elmer/rail/units/mpi_new.html
In the process I found what seems to be an unofficial site for Amtrak roster and photos:
http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster-engines.shtml It does have some errors.
Found another helpful site (builders)
http://www.ole.net/~rcraig/INDEXBLDR.html

[ckape]

Well, I've been trying to find more information on the relationship between the MK1200D and GP15D, and the MK2000D and GP20D for a while, but I haven't been able to find much except this old press release, which doesn't really give any specifics:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/www/story/06-09-1999/0000959608

And of course it gives the wrong URL for MPI's website.

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Does anyone know of extremely powerful locomotives outside and/or inside North America? I know of the DD40AX and Big Boy but are there any elsewhere?

the largest powerful engines that come to my mind are

Little Joes, Big Boy/Challenger/Beyer-Garrats/DD-40's/Virginian EL-2's/
Erie-Virginian Triplex's/ experimental turbines

This seems to be run with a mostly North American crowd, someone prove me wrong and get some info from out yonder. This mans you Peter M636C too, eh? or are you simply looking for something that's finely Aussie steam Garratts to put on the show here??? Garratts would be nice if I could only see them . . . .

[dinwitty]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Does anyone know of extremely powerful locomotives outside and/or inside North America? I know of the DD40AX and Big Boy but are there any elsewhere?

the largest powerful engines that come to my mind are

Little Joes, Big Boy/Challenger/Beyer-Garrats/DD-40's/Virginian EL-2's/
Erie-Virginian Triplex's/ experimental turbines

[Sterling1]

What locomotives do the Germans used these days?

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How would you uprate a diesel or an electric?

You cannot uprate a locomotive with out changing the major components. On electric RRs much depends on the capacity of the substations. In most cases you can improve tractive effort with bolt on wheelslip systems but for the most part horsepower cannot be raise to exceed the mechanical limits of the machinery. There are 1 or 2 exceptions: like the DD40-x with 2 645E prime movers, each engine produces 3300 HP at 1000 rpm as opposed to the regular SD-40 @3000 HP at 900 rpm .
Randy

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Did MPI at Boise build the GP20D and GP15D from the MK designs or what? they look similar to MK1200G and MK1500D(if any were built).

The front end of the MK1200G, MK1500D, GP20D, GP15D looks like some kind small egined truck with that short low hood and large windows.

[Sterling1]

Did MPI at Boise build the GP20D and GP15D from the MK designs or what? they look similar to MK1200G and MK1500D(if any were built).

[Sterling1]

How would you uprate a diesel or an electric?

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

GE haven't made any announcement about passenger locomotives meeting the 2005 emission regulations. It would be fairly straightforward to put a GEVO 12 cylinder engine into a Genesis P42 body. But Amtrak already have most of the locomotives they need (or perhaps as many as they can afford with present financial problems). EMD aren't actively updating the F59PHI, and MPI have what little market there is to themselves. The MP36PH is certainly big, longer than an F59PHI. It is that high to match the bi-level and gallery cars used in commuter service. Why it is so long isn't clear except that that would allow more space inside to repair and maintain equipment - remember that the -3C has a separate diesel alternator set for HEP power.

Peter

I was told that the P-40s were going into storage pending an upgrade to P-42
Randy

[Sterling1]

ow do you upgrade a radiator for diesels say perhaps Alco or second hand tunnel motors?

[M636C]

GE haven't made any announcement about passenger locomotives meeting the 2005 emission regulations. It would be fairly straightforward to put a GEVO 12 cylinder engine into a Genesis P42 body. But Amtrak already have most of the locomotives they need (or perhaps as many as they can afford with present financial problems). EMD aren't actively updating the F59PHI, and MPI have what little market there is to themselves. The MP36PH is certainly big, longer than an F59PHI. It is that high to match the bi-level and gallery cars used in commuter service. Why it is so long isn't clear except that that would allow more space inside to repair and maintain equipment - remember that the -3C has a separate diesel alternator set for HEP power.

Peter

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Okay something in the Rail Pics website rakes in the questions
I saw an SCL U18B#333 is that long gone and why did they build such short locos?

The U18B is shorter to reduce weight. It was intended as a replacement for older GP9 and GP7 locomotives, and the SCL units actually used EMD trucks.

GE already built versions of its U series with both twelve and sixteen cylinders, but using the same body design, with just different hood door arrangements to tell them apart.

With the U18, they decided to shorten the unit since the V-8 engine was almost exactly half as long as the V-16, so they didn't need the length, and this would reduce the weight to that of the smaller units it was replacing, which were used on lighter track.

As to the P30CH, the shape of its roof is similar to the earlier U30CG built for Santa Fe, and is really just an extension of the shape of the cab roof of the U series units. It would allow operation in tight clearances in the East, and possibly they were hoping for orders from New York City commuter operations. In fact only Amtrak bought any, and they tended to be used in the South, on the Auto Train and from Chicago to New Orleans (at least, that's where I saw them!)

Peter

The Maine Central U-18 Bs had Cooper Bessemer 8 cyl prime movers, I wonder if all of them were built with this engine?
Randy

[Sterling1]

What kinds of weird designs have people come up with in designing rolling stock and locomotives?

[ckape]

I was under the impression that the MK1500D was the basis for the new GP15D units.

[Sterling1]

How does Australia design its freight and passenger cars? What about Russia, Poland, Germany, Britain, China, etc?

[Sterling1]

I was looking at rooftop photos of the MP36PH-3S locos and noticed that they had five fans, 3 for radiator and two for dynamic braking, plus there 2 openings further back for the inverter. Now these locos are massive, the question is do they need to be that large, and if the Genesis locos go away, would it be cheaper for Amtrak to purchase MP36PH-3C, -3S?

[daveklepper]

The GG1 was lots of people's favorite

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I may be a little late on this thread but I have some good websites for Sterling1 to check out for more info:
Australia: http://locopage.railpage.org.au/
Brazil: http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~efbrazil/
India: http:www.irfca.org/

[Sterling1]

Another deviation . . . what do railroads use now for fighting snow these days?

[Sterling1]

OK a little deviation from the norm wouldn't hurt, what is in your opinion your favorite electric locomotive(s)? Mine currently are the GG1 and the AEM7 for the sake of jumbled modernity . . . Now I know some people have their favorite diesel and steam locos, but we'll do that another time . . .

[Sterling1]

I was on railpics sometime ago and looking through my spotter's book (the Foster one), and noted the locos built by either MK or BLW in the 1980's-90s. The MK500C was obviously not successful, but what about the MK1200G and the MK1500D, how did those fare in the loco market and do they still exist?

[Sterling1]

I didn't know that Montreal ws on an island but i did know that the St Lawrence skirted it . . . .

[jchnhtfd]

Matt -- such a lot of questions! My goodness... the Draper Taper was, and is, a very good way to get some rear vision (it isn't great, but it isn't horrible, either) from the cab of a locomotive with a full-width, as opposed to a narrow, engine cover. You can see your man on the ground back there -- which you can't without the taper. Don't know about cose. And up here in the north, a full width engine cover is regarded as kinda nice when you are working on the engine and it's 40 below. CN used a number of engines set up that way.
I am assuming that you mean the Victoria Bridge in Montreal (there are others!). If so, try: http://collections.ic.gc.ca/stlauren/hist/hi_victoria1898.htm for a look at it. It is one of the main rail crossings into Montreal which is an island -- although that isn't always obvious. Crossing the St. Lawrence in those days was a real feat. I haven't examined it all that closely for obvious reasons, but as far as the bridge itself goes it is a pretty conventional steel Warren truss, multiple span. There is a crossing of the international waterway as part of it, but most of it is pretty low level. Building it (1859) was a heroic task, as the St. Lawrence is not a particular friendly piece of water to work on, and, as you can see from the link, there are quite a number of piers in the river.