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Posted by jdkuehn on Sunday, July 1, 2007 10:51 AM

SD20's are de-turbocharged SD24's rebuilt from ex-Southern and Union Pacific SD24's at Illinois Central's Paducah shops.  They were rated at 2,000 hp, and hence, I assume, the designation SD20.  During the rebuilding the dynamic brakes were removed and the cabs replaced (or added as the UP SD24's were cabless 'B' units I think), noses chopeed, and a new air intake and pressurized car bodies.  SD18's had 1,800 hp, so I guess IC figured SD20 made sense, even though EMD called their 2,000 hp SD's SD38's.  ATSF also rebuilt SD24's into SD26's retaining the turbo chargers and increasing the horsepower from 2,400 to 2,600 and adding a pressurzed car body and a larger fuel tank and moving the air tanks to the roof.  CNW also rebuilt SD24's of UP heritage by de-turbocharging them and blanking the dynamic brakes, but I think they called theirs SD18's as they were very similar to an as-built SD18 and also rated at 1,800 hp.

 Jason Kuehn

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:50 PM
Just to clear up some confusion re: New Zealand Deisel Electrics.

EMD:
Class "DC" = EMD G22AR Rebuilt from EMD G12
Class "DBR" = EMD G18AR Rebuilt from EMD G8
Class "DFT" = EMD GT22MC Rebuilt from EMD GL22MC
Class "DQ" = EMD G18C

GE:
Class "DX" = GE U26C
Class "DH" = GE U10B

These are only the export models used in N.Z. I havent included locally made locos or locos from other companys just EMD and GE.


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Posted by Sterling1 on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:43 PM
Is there a reason for WP unit 707 for having this kind of headlight instead a vertical set?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=107255
Also is this extention common?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=107295
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

OK . . . I may have already answered this but I'm going to ask anyway:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=94122

The SP units are the only ones that seem to have this truck and the "elephant ears "
Did this "new" truck design help in the way of adhesion or ride or nothing?


UP's GP40X's also used the HTB truck.

The HTB was experimental and because of its poor riding characteristics, it was not used on later models.
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:27 AM
IIRC the HTB truck came out of the cooperation of GM and ASEA in the early '70s (compare the trucks on the GM10B electric). I've always understood it as a zero-weight-transfer, high-adhesion design, not something optimized for ride or tracking quality. Peter (M636C) may know detailed information for you -- there was a thread on this subject a while back.

Might have been some patent issues that made it 'less preferable' than a Blomberg, or just not better enough to get railroads to stock two sets of pieces for four-axle power. My guess is that the move to six-axle power effectively killed the perceived need for fancy ZWT long-wheelbase B trucks for freight, and the world of two-axle trucks has gone in a very different direction after the '80s.

The truck must have worked well enough; UP had at least one of theirs running in 2000, and one of the SP units is still working (afaik) as TP&W 4056.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:53 PM
OK . . . I may have already answered this but I'm going to ask anyway:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=94122

The SP units are the only ones that seem to have this truck and the "elephant ears "
Did this "new" truck design help in the way of adhesion or ride or nothing?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, May 23, 2005 8:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

I saw the " By By SD90MAC H2 " thread . . .

I'm wondering did EMD ever implement it's 265H engine or is it still in R&D?

If the units are coming out of lease then what will happen if 6000hp is going
to be needed?

Finally what are the main reasons for doing away with the SD90MAC ,

length , inflexibility , etc . . .



Read the rest of that thread. Its been updated with new information.


Yeah I just read it . . .

A little bit shocking to find that the SD90MACs are not the best at a low speed with a large load but possibly better with high hp/ton ratio in high speed service . . .

Anyone know why did EMD and GE build above 4500hp for locomotives . . .

In hindsight it looks like greed but I think it just means that the time for 6000hp has not yet come . . .

MAtt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 22, 2005 5:43 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

I saw the " By By SD90MAC H2 " thread . . .

I'm wondering did EMD ever implement it's 265H engine or is it still in R&D?

If the units are coming out of lease then what will happen if 6000hp is going
to be needed?

Finally what are the main reasons for doing away with the SD90MAC ,

length , inflexibility , etc . . .



Read the rest of that thread. Its been updated with new information.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, May 22, 2005 4:08 PM
I saw the " By By SD90MAC H2 " thread . . .

I'm wondering did EMD ever implement it's 265H engine or is it still in R&D?

If the units are coming out of lease then what will happen if 6000hp is going
to be needed?

Finally what are the main reasons for doing away with the SD90MAC ,

length , inflexibility , etc . . .
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, May 8, 2005 1:38 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Noticed this peculiar locomotive:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=77964
Any info on this loco NREX 9402?


From thread 23009 on the MR Forum (October 2004):

Please try to remember when you've had your questions answered before you re-post them as if they were new.

To re-cap: 9402 is functionally an SD-40-2 on an ex-SP SD45-T2 (tunnel motor) frame. Note the bell bracket on the end of the long hood (presently without bell).

I'm fascinated that the weight distribution on the trucks of this unit is still correct -- confirmation, perhaps, that most of the extra length in the tunnel-motor architecture is mostly air...



Thanks so much for the info and reminder
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 8, 2005 4:54 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Noticed this peculiar locomotive:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=77964
Any info on this loco NREX 9402?


From thread 23009 on the MR Forum (October 2004):

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by RI4310

NREX is rebuilding alot of old Southern Pacific tunnel motors with standard raidiators and the end result is a standard length hood on a looooong frame left over. theres some pics on railpictures.net. There primer gray with red lettering, looks weird like a liitle boy with daddys shoes on. Long live the rock.

a couple of the older engines we see, do look exactly like the little boy and the big shoes. Like they were cobbled together by a committee...

Hmm Iwaonder what kind of committee cobbled up the European locomotives or Russian tanks . . .

Thanks for the visitation rights, so much trackage and haulage rights!!!


Please try to remember when you've had your questions answered before you re-post them as if they were new.

To re-cap: 9402 is functionally an SD-40-2 on an ex-SP SD45-T2 (tunnel motor) frame. Note the bell bracket on the end of the long hood (presently without bell).

I'm fascinated that the weight distribution on the trucks of this unit is still correct -- confirmation, perhaps, that most of the extra length in the tunnel-motor architecture is mostly air...

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Posted by Sterling1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 7:11 PM
This isn't related to locos but:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=89795
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=89797
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=89798
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=89799

Any info?

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 7:02 PM
Ok another thing what the heck is going on here:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=67580

Explain please

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 6:53 PM
Noticed this peculiar locomotive:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=77964

Any info on this loco NREX 9402?

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 4:32 PM
I just noticed or re-noticed what appears to be a round cap thing on the low short hood on the engineer's side of MRL SD45 314 . I wonder what that services . . . if it is for the onboard toilet then where do the newer wide nosed locos have their "caps"?

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 2:23 PM
From one of the photos , walking all the way from the cab to the rear platform of the

locomotive isn't all that obvious . . .

BTW it seems that a lot of the Canadian road switcher locomtives have one rear

headlight, was that a common option considering stateside usually had two headlights?

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 6, 2005 10:48 PM


QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I looked at both photos. Each one had the notation," 0 comments on this photo".


Yes, but it was, from the beginning, the "remarks" that he was talking about. And in both photos, the remarks make special mention of lack of rearward visibility, even with the taper...

Keep in mind that the "Draper taper" IS that angled section of carbody behind the cab that allows some rear and outward view. It isn't the common name, or nickname, of the locomotive itself. It's also not something that's a 'standard' option produced by locomotive builders;

Want to see lack of rearward visibility? Look at any of the conventional cowl units -- F45/FP45, SDP40F, any of the U-boat CGs on ATSF. Or, for that matter, any of the F or E units, FAs or PAs, Sharks, etc. The taper is specifically intended (or perhaps I could say 'indented'?) to give sightlines from the cab window while keeping carbody mods relatively simple and presumably inexpensive. (Note that it remains possible to walk from end to end of one of these units inside, one of the advantages of a cowl-type carbody in Canadian winter conditions...)

I think the taper is a remarkably sensible design. My suspicion is that its lack of Stateside acceptance is due less to NIH considerations than to the relative lack of perceived need for cowl units in present American service... or the lack of need for rearward visibility from a passenger unit in a world of Superliners and cab-car push-pull consists.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 6, 2005 10:39 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

C42-8 is the Dash-8 series with 4200 nominal horsepower.

C44-9WL is the special version of the Dash-9 series, 4400 nominal hp, W = wide cab, with the long 4-window cab. I believe the "L" stands for 'long cab' rather than 'light' (the units are 2000lb lighter than standard, according to guilford350's locomotive database, but I don't think this is significant enough to warrant a different designation by itself; I find no difference in the overall frame length or other running-gear spacing that might reflect an "L" for 'long'.


Through a little research, I have found various sources stating that the C44-9WL is 6 inches longer overall than a normal Dash-9. Although, I don't know how true that is. The 4-window cab is longer than a normal wide nose cab.
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 5, 2005 8:26 PM
C42-8 is the Dash-8 series with 4200 nominal horsepower.

C44-9WL is the special version of the Dash-9 series, 4400 nominal hp, W = wide cab, with the long 4-window cab. I believe the "L" stands for 'long cab' rather than 'light' (the units are 2000lb lighter than standard, according to guilford350's locomotive database, but I don't think this is significant enough to warrant a different designation by itself; I find no difference in the overall frame length or other running-gear spacing that might reflect an "L" for 'long'.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, May 5, 2005 7:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I looked at both photos. Each one had the notation," 0 comments on this photo".


Tee hee very funny . . .

But is it true though the Draper Tapers not being popular with the railroaders or is that just generational locomotive dynamics?

Matt
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by espeefoamer on Thursday, May 5, 2005 6:19 PM
I looked at both photos. Each one had the notation," 0 comments on this photo".
Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, May 5, 2005 6:00 PM
I was on Rail Pics just now and saw these comments for the "Draper Tapers":
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=101053
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=102692

Were all the Draper Tapers that bad in rearview sight? if so then what's the point of having that little angular cutouts behind the cab?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Hugh Jampton on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How much horsepower on a C41-8W?


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Posted by Sterling1 on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 4:49 PM
How much horsepower on a C41-8W?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 4:45 PM
Okay, I'm back for a little bit, graduation and exams are coming out.

Was on Rail Pics today and noticed these designations
GE C42-8
GE C44-9WL

The C42-8s seem to be all have been owned only by CNW

I have never really seen these designations before, what do they mean?

"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 25, 2005 7:01 PM
AFAIK = standard Internet acronym: "as far as I know"

Baldwin distinguished their supercharged 606 and 608 engines (big inlines) from the normally-aspirated versions by appending SC or NA respectively. The production Centipedes had eight-cylinder engines when built: 608SCs; some of PRR's were derated (when put in helper service) and I always assumed the engines were essentially 608NAs as modified.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, April 25, 2005 4:36 PM
I was on RailPics and noticed that some of the older CN or CP locomotives have the red, gree, white class lights. Are those in normal use nowadays? If not when did they stop using them? I don't see these lights on the newer locos.
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, April 25, 2005 4:33 PM
Did all cab units have walkways into the engine rooms with access either from rear doorway or from the cabs? Apply this to the SD40-2F, SD50F, SD60F, etc.
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
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Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, April 25, 2005 4:30 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Plenty of information on Centipedes -- just restricted to Baldwin fan community and esoteric history. There was very little of their technology that turned out to be useful for the kind of locomotives that prevailed... and have subsequently prevailed... in the marketplace.

Engines used in the production Centipedes were typical 608 series; I think all SC and not NA. The chassis was derived from high-speed electric practice of the time (note that PRR, at about the same time the Centipedes were developed, had gone in the opposite direction as far as number of powered axles, with the DD2, but didn't have to accommodate two fairly big diesel engine/generators in a single carbody). All tankage was above the undercarriage, which presented some packaging and seal problems. Cabs AFAIK were comparable to other 'covered wagons' -- no inherent reason why they couldn't be large and spacious as desired; you'll notice they were arbitrarily made with a lower roof height than the 'rest' of the carbody.

The articulated undercarriage was massive overkill for the amount of actual horsepower developed, and provided no meaningful gain over what could be achieved with a bunch of A-1-A Blombergs in practice. The fact that you don't see any other Baldwin production designs using it should be illustrative.

Much of the unreliability was common to many Baldwins -- lots of little separate lines and routing for oil, for example, led to lots of big and little leaks when the engines got into regular service, indifferent maintenance, etc. If Baldwin had had a Dilworth doing their overall locomotive design, things might have been different. IIRC many of the 'unreliability' problems with the design were solved, but by that time the units were effectively orphans -- some of PRR's were derated and placed in helper service, which was a waste of their 100+mph capacity, but probably a reasonable use of their full-articulated chassis capacity.

Baldwin did have one interesting use of the capability of the Centipede idea -- a 6000hp test locomotive in the late '40s that was intended to use modular transverse V-8 engine/generator sets. You slid in more or less power as desired for your intended service, a rather interesting idea then as now. I've read varying accounts of how this project effectively came to go nowhere.

There's at least one good book on Baldwin diesels that will tell you all the stuff you're asking about. (I don't own it yet, but rather than do so and then violate the spirit of copyright, I'll just tell you to order it from Amazon or some other source that can procure it new or used)


What do you mean by AFAIK and engine type SC not NA. IF Baldwin was using SC then how many cylinders?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]

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