Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

[Sterling1]

In a SDP40F, FP45, F45, etc. was it possible from the cab to go back into the engine room without at first going outside? With all that cowling it would seem so

[Sterling1]

Now why did the GP40X frieght versions have flared raidiator screens? Was this to test the design that is now currently available on most modern locos?

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt,

How about we try to clear most of these up at once.

The description GP 40X was used twice, for the prototype locomotives that were used to develop the GP40 and later for the prototypes of the GP50. Since both of these were used to develop successful models, the actual sales are irrelevant. Some features of the second GP40X, in particular the low weight transfer truck, were not used on later models. We can conclude that they weren't worth the extra cost or were not enough of an improvement on the standard truck.

It is almost impossible to conceive of a 4200 HP SD40. That is a 40% increase in power over standard. The SD45X, a 20 cylinder locomotive was rated at 4200 HP. These were only prototypes, but may have contributed to the eventual development of the SD80, the next 20 cylinder locomotive from EMD.

Dash 3 is used to indicate an older type of locomotive rebuilt with microprocessor control.

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter

Thanks for the info, I may have to check on the 4200hp loco found it some where although I don't have with me now.[:D]

[M636C]

Matt,

How about we try to clear most of these up at once.

The description GP 40X was used twice, for the prototype locomotives that were used to develop the GP40 and later for the prototypes of the GP50. Since both of these were used to develop successful models, the actual sales are irrelevant. Some features of the second GP40X, in particular the low weight transfer truck, were not used on later models. We can conclude that they weren't worth the extra cost or were not enough of an improvement on the standard truck.

It is almost impossible to conceive of a 4200 HP SD40. That is a 40% increase in power over standard. The SD45X, a 20 cylinder locomotive was rated at 4200 HP. These were only prototypes, but may have contributed to the eventual development of the SD80, the next 20 cylinder locomotive from EMD.

Dash 3 is used to indicate an older type of locomotive rebuilt with microprocessor control.

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter

[Sterling1]

How many SDP45 were built and how many survive?

[Sterling1]

On some rebuilt locos the application mark "-3" is on the reporting marks,etc. What does "-3" stand for?

[Sterling1]

I read up somewhere about SD40 being equipped to 4200hp is that correct and why?

[Sterling1]

Did these so called "dogs" ever really improve other products, or fail utterly? How many of each of these "dogs" were built, how long did they last and to what end ultimately?

[Sterling1]

On railpics again as always: GP40X how many built, and survive, and any differences. Did EMD, ALCO, and GE make any locomtives that could be considered dogs or failures achieved at market?

[locomutt]

Overmod,

You definitely remember correctly,It was March 1997;and I have the
complete article. It's a very good read.[:)] I should add;especially
if you want to "kit-bash" one[:D]

[Overmod]

If Bergie reads this thread, he may have distinctive competence to answer the EMD BL20-2 question.

He wrote an article about these locomotives in an early 1997 Model Railroader, if I remember correctly.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1How many demos (all and any models) did EMD manufacture throughout their history?

I did a quick search on Google and found this- http://www.hosam.com/emd/emddemo.html

It doesn't list all the demos (I noticed the list is missing demos made from the mid-80's and onward) but has many F-unit, GP, and SD demos so it may be of some interest.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Does anyone know why GP60M and GP60B locos were built and how many survive? Why did they order GP60B even at all they don't have any cabs!!!

There were a total of 63 GP60M's built from June 1990 to September 1990 and a total of 23 GP60B's built from July 1991 to September 1991.

[M636C]

The road numbers of the BL20-2 units were 120-122.

Peter

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt

The EMD BL20-2 was a rebuild of a GP9 using the original frame and engine but a new carbody. There is a bit of a mystery (to me) about the engine, because it appears to have a turbocharger, but at only 2000HP, there are easier ways of getting this power (just using a blower 16-645E comes to mind). Also, some references to the engine referred to a "supercharger" rather than a "Turbocharger". The engine is sometimes described as being a 567 (8-1/2" cylinder liners) and other times as a 645 (9-1/16" cylinder liners). But apart from that difficulty, it's a rebuilt GP9 with a new carbody - but nobody bought any so EMD was left with the original three units intended as demonstrators.

Peter

Thanks for the info Peter, what were the numbers of the demos?
How many demos (all and any models) did EMD manufacture throughout their history?

[M636C]

Matt

The EMD BL20-2 was a rebuild of a GP9 using the original frame and engine but a new carbody. There is a bit of a mystery (to me) about the engine, because it appears to have a turbocharger, but at only 2000HP, there are easier ways of getting this power (just using a blower 16-645E comes to mind). Also, some references to the engine referred to a "supercharger" rather than a "Turbocharger". The engine is sometimes described as being a 567 (8-1/2" cylinder liners) and other times as a 645 (9-1/16" cylinder liners). But apart from that difficulty, it's a rebuilt GP9 with a new carbody - but nobody bought any so EMD was left with the original three units intended as demonstrators.

Peter

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know why GP60M and GP60B locos were built and how many survive? Why did they order GP60B even at all they don't have any cabs!!!

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know if HLCX 3951 the cab and the front door was an aftermarket job or one done at the factory, are there any running notes about that particular unit and was it the only one to receive that treatment?

[Sterling1]

Does anyone have details on the ballast unloader used:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=74273

I need all the details, MOW trains are an area of RR that I haven't hada chance to see yet . . .

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know the deal with EMD#121 "BL20-2"? Found a picture of it in ralipics while at BL2s; info much appreciated . . .

[edblysard]

Brian,
Same locomotives, different paint...
The MK1500D is the "New" EMD GP15, the MK2000D is the GP20.
Boise Locomotive, or MK Rail, or Motive Power Inc...(pick a name, same folks) manufactor the GPs under license for EMD.
The only major difference between the EMD version and the MK version is all the EMD have the computer read out for the systems monitor on the back cab wall. the MKs didnt have the monitor in any other than the MPEX1501, the CMC1502, and MPEX1602.
By the way, the MPEX1602 is a C+C truck, 2000HP A/C powered locomotive, really a fine switcher, I love working with it...

UP has a lease fleet of the EMD GP15s and 20s on lease from CEFX, all of the 20s have dynamic brakes, none of the 15s I saw did.

The EMD models have a better fuel system management program, they load up a lot faster than the older MKs.

Ed

[ckape]

Mostly what I wanted to know was the relationship between the MK1500D and the GP15D, and the same for the MK2000D and the GP20D

[daveklepper]

Correction, five New Haven EF-3's were equipped with train heating boilers. Actually, they were not replaced by the FL-9 second order, but by the GP-9's that were ordered at the same time. And it took four GP-9's (a good locomotive at its time, too) to handle the freight train that one EL-3 hauled. George Alpert was McGinnis's successor, and it was actually his decision. These really were excellent locomotives, the pinnacle of the design philosophy of the GG-1. The GG-1 was based on the New Haven EP-3, and then the later New Haven EP-4 and EF-3 were developed from the GG-1. The EF-3 is worthy of being included in any list of the World's most powerful locomotives.

After the EF-3, practical rectifier locomotives were developed, and that led to 60 Hz power (50 Hz in Europe), which is why none of these AC-commutator motor locomotives would be used today, even if restored. They were designed for 25 Hz (cylces per second) power. The rectifier equipment can be and is designed to work on both systems, thus Acela does still see 25-Hz power south of New York, and the New Jersey Transit Penn Station - Dover & Gladstone trains use both kinds of power. And of course the rectifier locomotives use the same motors as diesels, or at least can. AC motor locomotives are possible like Amtrak's AEM-7, by the frequency at the motor (Hz, cylces-per-second) varies with speed and is different than the power line frequency, which is 60 Hz or 25 Hz. Will we ever see a modern electric with the power of the EF-3? It would require freight railroad electrification, and until then the EF-3 remains the most powerful electric that ran in North America, and I don't know of any more powerful anywhere else. Does anybody? By power, I'm looking at both horsepower and tractive effort.

[Sterling1]

looks like a slow time at this topic's forum at least for the past few days, must be Thanksgiving!!!

[Sterling1]

I recently went to railpicsnet and got me some pictures that I set as backgrounds and saved them onto the harddrive. Had the ES40DC engineer's control stand as the background picture to replace one I found on the Trains website. The details are quite as it is a close up and I can see all the modern parts of AAR control stand in a GE loco; also have the cab bulkhead and conductor's desk, neither are quite that appealing for now to look at!!! [:D] [;)] [(-D]

[Sterling1]

I was on the railpics site and found these links to NS's ES40DC locos:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php
a rooftop shot:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/n/NS9913.jpg.81634.thumb
At GE-NS interchange with a red switcher that I want to know more about:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/g/GE_Test_Train_Erie,PA_6-18-04_1833hrs.JPG.70077.thumb
Interiors:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_010.jpg.98236.thumb
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_011.jpg.83663.thumb
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_009.jpg.43200.thumb
***Note: they are all thumbnails but click on them again and you'll get the big, wide and full picture.[:D] [;)] [(-D] [:D] [;)] [(-D] [:D] [;)] [(-D] [swg]

Matt

[Sterling1]

Found a good website for Amtrak, date photos:
http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

Opps!!! I didn't realize that the mechanics would find those malicious problems within the prime mover and radiator and debug the microprocessor control system (MCPCS) all in one precious night!!!

Matt

OK, OK, OK, it's time to close up shop for the night, see you in the dawn of morning or is it hte night shift; I don't know . . . . .[|)] [|)] [|)]

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

Opps!!! I didn't realize that the mechanics would find those malicious problems within the prime mover and radiator and debug the microprocessor control system (MCPCS) all in one precious night!!!

Matt

[Sterling1]

In addition to those websites, anyone of middle, high school age can become a member of this website to which I'm afiliated with:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/trainsrule/

Matt