Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What was the largest fuel tender ever used by steam or other locos? Biggest fuel bunker for coal and oil? Biggest water tank?

South Africa had some big condensing tenders that they used for running across the desert. Don't know what its capacity was though.

[Anonymous]

16-567 in a GP7/GP9

Notch 1- 6.5/4.4 gallons/hour
2- 14.5/13.5
3- 23.4/23.6
4- 33/36.7
5- 45.7/51.5
6- 59.6/67.8
7- 75.2/82.2
8- 93/108

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's the difference between C39-8 and C39-8E? How many of each were built and what month/years?

The C39-8 was the original production six motor Dash 8 and looked like the original prototype GE 607(?). The cab roof was curved and was lower than the dynamic brake "hump" immediately behind. The radiator arrangement was different, and there were two radiator cooling fans behind vertical air intake grilles.

The C39-8E (E for "Enhanced" I believe) had the radiator arrangement used for most Dash 8 production with a wider single radiator fan. Since this fan was slightly wider than the hood structure "flared" radiator air intakes were placed below the radiator "Wings". The vents below the radiator were tidied up and generally the loco looked like the conventional cab C40-8 with the EMD style "spartan" angled cab roof the same height as the dynamic brakes. I think that the C39-8E did not have the air tanks recessed into the fuel tank, which was a feature of the C40-8.

I think Norfolk Southern got all of the C39-8 and C-39-8E built , but I'm not certain of that.

Peter

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Peter:
Conrail also had 22 C39-8's, 6000-6021. Like everything else, they went to CSX and NS.
Paul

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's the difference between C39-8 and C39-8E? How many of each were built and what month/years?

The C39-8 was the original production six motor Dash 8 and looked like the original prototype GE 607(?). The cab roof was curved and was lower than the dynamic brake "hump" immediately behind. The radiator arrangement was different, and there were two radiator cooling fans behind vertical air intake grilles.

The C39-8E (E for "Enhanced" I believe) had the radiator arrangement used for most Dash 8 production with a wider single radiator fan. Since this fan was slightly wider than the hood structure "flared" radiator air intakes were placed below the radiator "Wings". The vents below the radiator were tidied up and generally the loco looked like the conventional cab C40-8 with the EMD style "spartan" angled cab roof the same height as the dynamic brakes. I think that the C39-8E did not have the air tanks recessed into the fuel tank, which was a feature of the C40-8.

I think Norfolk Southern got all of the C39-8 and C-39-8E built , but I'm not certain of that.

Peter

I was in Railpics recently and was looking at the C39-8 cab and wondered if the interior were cramped because from the outside the cab is shorter than the DB box behind it.
Conrail got some C39-8s . . .

Also how many of these units survive? IS NS scrapping the older C39-8s or what?
Thanks

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's the difference between C39-8 and C39-8E? How many of each were built and what month/years?

The C39-8 was the original production six motor Dash 8 and looked like the original prototype GE 607(?). The cab roof was curved and was lower than the dynamic brake "hump" immediately behind. The radiator arrangement was different, and there were two radiator cooling fans behind vertical air intake grilles.

The C39-8E (E for "Enhanced" I believe) had the radiator arrangement used for most Dash 8 production with a wider single radiator fan. Since this fan was slightly wider than the hood structure "flared" radiator air intakes were placed below the radiator "Wings". The vents below the radiator were tidied up and generally the loco looked like the conventional cab C40-8 with the EMD style "spartan" angled cab roof the same height as the dynamic brakes. I think that the C39-8E did not have the air tanks recessed into the fuel tank, which was a feature of the C40-8.

I think Norfolk Southern got all of the C39-8 and C-39-8E built , but I'm not certain of that.

Peter

What are NS loco numbers for its C39-8s and C39-8Es?

[Sterling1]

How many C40-9s did NS purchase? I am not talking about the ones with the wide cab. I am wondering was it at the time cheaper for NS to buy standard versus wide cab? Also why do they have full headlighting and ditch lights on both ends?

[Sterling1]

How many B39-8E and B39-8 (if any) were built? How many survive?

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many B39-8E and B39-8 (if any) were built? How many survive?

Owned by which companies?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many C40-9s did NS purchase? I am not talking about the ones with the wide cab. I am wondering was it at the time cheaper for NS to buy standard versus wide cab? Also why do they have full headlighting and ditch lights on both ends?

NS purchased 125 C40-9's in 1995. I believe they are the only Dash-9 units with the air conditioner mounted on the roof.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many B39-8E and B39-8 (if any) were built? How many survive?

There were only 3 B39-8's built in 1984 as demonstrators and featured the rounded, Dash-7 like cab. 145 B39-8E units were produced from 1984-1988 and featured the common Dash-8 style cab. BN used 102 LMX B39-8E's and SP had 40 units. Many B39-8E's still serve in lease fleets and on various shortlines.

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many C40-9s did NS purchase? I am not talking about the ones with the wide cab. I am wondering was it at the time cheaper for NS to buy standard versus wide cab? Also why do they have full headlighting and ditch lights on both ends?

The Kalmbach "Field Guide" has most of these answers and other things you haven't thought of yet! It shows NS numbers 8764 to 8888 (125 units) as the standard cab locomotives. NS certainly used to run units with the long hood leading (they bought many set up that way) and they may still do so when necessary, and want the units properly equipped (with lights) to run that way. I cannot believe that GE didn't charge NS extra for the old design cab. I recall hearing that the final reason for changing to "W" cabs was that GE were charging too much for the old design


B39-8s were ATSF 7400 to 7402
LMX 8500 to 8599
SP 8000 to 8039

Only the ATSF units had the original curved roof and twin radiator fans.

GE test unit 809, with a prototype "W" cab is also a B39-8. (total =144)

Peter

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many C40-9s did NS purchase? I am not talking about the ones with the wide cab. I am wondering was it at the time cheaper for NS to buy standard versus wide cab? Also why do they have full headlighting and ditch lights on both ends?

The Kalmbach "Field Guide" has most of these answers and other things you haven't thought of yet! It shows NS numbers 8764 to 8888 (125 units) as the standard cab locomotives. NS certainly used to run units with the long hood leading (they bought many set up that way) and they may still do so when necessary, and want the units properly equipped (with lights) to run that way. I cannot believe that GE didn't charge NS extra for the old design cab. I recall hearing that the final reason for changing to "W" cabs was that GE were charging too much for the old design


B39-8s were ATSF 7400 to 7402
LMX 8500 to 8599
SP 8000 to 8039

Only the ATSF units had the original curved roof and twin radiator fans.

GE test unit 809, with a prototype "W" cab is also a B39-8. (total =144)

Peter

Twin radiator fans?
Ge test unit#809; does anyone know of pictures for this unit, is it gone?

[Sterling1]

I was on Railpics moments ago and noticed that the Providence and Worcester RR's units had air horns tipped over the edge of the engine cover. What's the reason for that location?

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How many C40-9s did NS purchase? I am not talking about the ones with the wide cab. I am wondering was it at the time cheaper for NS to buy standard versus wide cab? Also why do they have full headlighting and ditch lights on both ends?

The Kalmbach "Field Guide" has most of these answers and other things you haven't thought of yet! It shows NS numbers 8764 to 8888 (125 units) as the standard cab locomotives. NS certainly used to run units with the long hood leading (they bought many set up that way) and they may still do so when necessary, and want the units properly equipped (with lights) to run that way. I cannot believe that GE didn't charge NS extra for the old design cab. I recall hearing that the final reason for changing to "W" cabs was that GE were charging too much for the old design


B39-8s were ATSF 7400 to 7402
LMX 8500 to 8599
SP 8000 to 8039

Only the ATSF units had the original curved roof and twin radiator fans.

GE test unit 809, with a prototype "W" cab is also a B39-8. (total =144)

Peter

Twin radiator fans?
Ge test unit#809; does anyone know of pictures for this unit, is it gone?

For the radiator fans, look back at what I said about early C39-8 units, they had them too!

I think there was a photo of 809 in "Trains" in the last article about GE at Erie, but, I can't remember how long ago that article ran! There is a photo of it in most recent "guides".

Peter

[Sterling1]

I noted the new radiators and the air intake box. Since the Dash 8 models of locos the air intake screens/vents have shrunk down to narrow. Is it less or more efficient now? The radiator section is quite a styling and mechanical departure from the norm. Can anyone provide me with information on these new locomotives?

[Sterling1]

There is this box next to the inverter box and on the walkway. This detail did not show up on the pre-production and early AC4400CW locos. What is this box?

[Sterling1]

There seems to be common locations for headlights on both ends: on the cab and on the nose. On the rear end of the GEVO ES44AC, the lights are in two positions. Why?

[arbfbe]

Sterling1

Are you writing a book or something?
Have you tried any of the commonly available reference sources first?
Will you remember any of this long enough to make it worthwhile for the providers?
Do you just want to see lots of stars by your name?

Alan

[jkeaton]

Much freight in Germany is hauled by 80 class 145 electric locomotives (4.2 MW - 5600 HP) and 400 class 185 electrics (5.6 MW - 7500 HP), built by Bombardier between 1995 and 2002. Bombardier's reference page:

Bombardier main entry page: http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp
Just keep following the links.

Bombardier also builds diesel-electric locomotives in Germany for European service. Which brings me to another point - Mark Hemphill, in his otherwise excellent answer to your much earlier question about locomotive builders, restricted himself to diesel-electric locomotives, stating that GM and GE had 80-90% of the available market. True. But, outside of North America and Australia, electrification is much more common, and diesel-electrics are rare - restricted to low traffic lines only.

In the electric locomotive world, Bombardier is the leader (because of it's acquisitions in Europe). There are also competitive builders in France, Japan, the Czech Republic, Sweden, to name a few. And that's not including passenger equipment builders, in which case you have to add in Italy and Korea. And even the Russians and the Indians export their railway equipment now.

Jim

[jkeaton]

A few other ostensibly "freight" locomotives that came with passenger 'options':

Fairbanks Morse H16-44 and H24-66 could both be equipped with steam generators - certainly the CNJ, SP and CP's were. FM even developed a dual-power, third-rail shoe equipped passenger steam-generator "concept" H24-66 for the NH, but FM and NH were both short on financial resources so NH bought the FL-9 instead. Of course, nearly the whole FM C-Liner line were available with and without steam generators.

MLW RS-18s had a steam generator option. A few of these were later rebuilt by CN with separate diesel-generator sets for HEP, replacing the steam generator.

RS-2s and RS-3s had a steam generator option.

The GP40TC came factory-equipped with a separate diesel-generator sets for HEP, but you could still call them a GP40.

Jim

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

I noted the new radiators and the air intake box. Since the Dash 8 models of locos the air intake screens/vents have shrunk down to narrow. Is it less or more efficient now? The radiator section is quite a styling and mechanical departure from the norm. Can anyone provide me with information on these new locomotives?

Older GEs had the dyn brk grids in the rear and used the mechanically driven radiator fan for cooling. Dash 8s and 9s have the DB equipment behind the cab, so the rad air intake can be smaller.

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

I noted the new radiators and the air intake box. Since the Dash 8 models of locos the air intake screens/vents have shrunk down to narrow. Is it less or more efficient now? The radiator section is quite a styling and mechanical departure from the norm. Can anyone provide me with information on these new locomotives?

Older GEs had the dyn brk grids in the rear and used the mechanically driven radiator fan for cooling. Dash 8s and 9s have the DB equipment behind the cab, so the rad air intake can be smaller.

Always go out the front door when you load box dash 7s.
Randy

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

Sterling1

Are you writing a book or something?
Have you tried any of the commonly available reference sources first?
Will you remember any of this long enough to make it worthwhile for the providers?
Do you just want to see lots of stars by your name?

Alan

I like the stars part [(-D] The main reason I ask this many questions is that just do have the current resources to buy RR reference currency. I have a very good feeling what you may say to that strategy and yes I am in the last few months under parental coverage ere I leave and find a lasting career.
I don't intend to . . .

I like to rid myself of this tiresome molting cloth in the near future . . . and run over continual depression and reluctance (depression + reluctance = soth + procrastination)

[Sterling1]

I remember reading in the special collector's edition of Classic Trains on Steam locos and noticed some of the Mallet articulated locos had thermic syphons. What are thermic syphons?

[Sterling1]

What's a Lempur steam exhaust system??? I noted a response in the Trains magazine after an article about Chinese steam.

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

I remember reading in the special collector's edition of Classic Trains on Steam locos and noticed some of the Mallet articulated locos had thermic syphons. What are thermic syphons?

Matt,

A Thermic Syphon is a pipe which starts at the front of the firebox, usually near the brick arch, and turns upward to join the top of the firebox (the "crown sheet"). The upward section is widened (in the fore and aft direction) and flattened, and fitted with stays to maintain the shape under pressure. It provides a path for cooler water from the bottom of the boiler to be heated and moved by convection to the top of the firebox. The convection effect causes it to act as a sort of pump (or syphon), hence the name. They are often called "Nicholson" thermic syphons, presumably after their originator. An "arch tube" performs a similar function but connects to the rear of the firebox near the top, and is the same diameter for the full length. Both of these can be used to support the brick arch.

Merry Christmas

Peter

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's a Lempur steam exhaust system??? I noted a response in the Trains magazine after an article about Chinese steam.

The "Lempor" is an exhaust system using multiple jets instead of a single nozzle. The name comes from a combination of "LE Maitre" and "PORta". Le Maitre was French and developed the idea of five small diameter nozzles in a circle, used in England by Oliver Bullied of the Southern Railway. The UP used similar systems on the 800 class 4-8-4s. Porta was an Argentine engineer who improved Le Maitre's design.

Peter

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's a Lempur steam exhaust system??? I noted a response in the Trains magazine after an article about Chinese steam.

The "Lempor" is an exhaust system using multiple jets instead of a single nozzle. The name comes from a combination of "LE Maitre" and "PORta". Le Maitre was French and developed the idea of five small diameter nozzles in a circle, used in England by Oliver Bullied of the Southern Railway. The UP used similar systems on the 800 class 4-8-4s. Porta was an Argentine engineer who improved Le Maitre's design.

Peter

In the case of the Chinese steam locos, how would this system be applied? Does make the steamer more or less efficent in what way?

[Sterling1]

How would you control poppets( to control flow of steam into the cylinder) in a steam loco? Does it help or hinder the performance, maintenence, and/or costs of the loco?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Poppet valves (same as the valves in a gasoline engine) improved steam locomotive performance dramatically. They were controlled by either oscillating cams or rotary cams actuated by driver motion.

Unfortunately, operating and maintenance costs were higher primarily due to the fact that only a handful of locomotives on any road were so equipped and suffered from being oddballs.