Trains.com

Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

24534 views
304 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:04 PM
On some rebuilt locos the application mark "-3" is on the reporting marks,etc. What does "-3" stand for?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:08 PM
How many SDP45 were built and how many survive?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:35 PM
Matt,

How about we try to clear most of these up at once.

The description GP 40X was used twice, for the prototype locomotives that were used to develop the GP40 and later for the prototypes of the GP50. Since both of these were used to develop successful models, the actual sales are irrelevant. Some features of the second GP40X, in particular the low weight transfer truck, were not used on later models. We can conclude that they weren't worth the extra cost or were not enough of an improvement on the standard truck.

It is almost impossible to conceive of a 4200 HP SD40. That is a 40% increase in power over standard. The SD45X, a 20 cylinder locomotive was rated at 4200 HP. These were only prototypes, but may have contributed to the eventual development of the SD80, the next 20 cylinder locomotive from EMD.

Dash 3 is used to indicate an older type of locomotive rebuilt with microprocessor control.

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:05 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt,

How about we try to clear most of these up at once.

The description GP 40X was used twice, for the prototype locomotives that were used to develop the GP40 and later for the prototypes of the GP50. Since both of these were used to develop successful models, the actual sales are irrelevant. Some features of the second GP40X, in particular the low weight transfer truck, were not used on later models. We can conclude that they weren't worth the extra cost or were not enough of an improvement on the standard truck.

It is almost impossible to conceive of a 4200 HP SD40. That is a 40% increase in power over standard. The SD45X, a 20 cylinder locomotive was rated at 4200 HP. These were only prototypes, but may have contributed to the eventual development of the SD80, the next 20 cylinder locomotive from EMD.

Dash 3 is used to indicate an older type of locomotive rebuilt with microprocessor control.

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter


Thanks for the info, I may have to check on the 4200hp loco found it some where although I don't have with me now.[:D]
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:07 PM
Now why did the GP40X frieght versions have flared raidiator screens? Was this to test the design that is now currently available on most modern locos?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:22 PM
In a SDP40F, FP45, F45, etc. was it possible from the cab to go back into the engine room without at first going outside? With all that cowling it would seem so
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:24 PM
Is former SDP40F#6976 in violation of FRA rules since it doesn't ditch lights on the front end?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:25 PM
Does any one know who the loco leasing companies are? Who's GCFX?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:28 PM
I noticed that in railpics there's a "SD40 ZXR" Montan rail loco(s)? What are they?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:36 PM
What were some of the complaints against cab units/cowl units? What about SDP40F?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:40 PM
How many paint schemes has Amtrak had in its 30+ years of existence?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 10:42 PM
When the IC rebuilt their SD40A locos, did they change anything in the process? Be specific.
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Sunday, November 28, 2004 11:37 PM
Matt,

In whatever EMD unit, flared radiator intakes mean that the radiators are wider than the hood. EMD radiators usually sit in a vee shape under the radiator fans. In both types of GP40X it was necessary to use larger radiators than the base unit, a GP35 for the older one and a GP40 for the newer one, so using wider radiators and flared intakes was a simple way of acheiving this. In the GP50, deeper radiator intakes were used, and the flare was no longer needed.

The IC SD40A, like the EL SDP45, was built that way to allow for a larger fuel tank. An SDP45 frame was used.

A description like SD40 ZXR sounds like a microprocessor anti wheel slip system was fitted.

The SDP40F suffered from derailments on curves, and this is now thought to be due to water surging in the internal tanks for the steam generator.

There have been five standard Amtrak colour schemes, not counting special schemes and California variations. The first Amtrak unit was a Penn Central E8 in black with the arrow symbol. This isn't counted either!

Peter
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Monday, November 29, 2004 9:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt,

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter


I checked, and as far as I can tell, SP had ten SDP45s, GN had eight SDP45s but the "Freight Only" versions with EL numbered over thirty. Still no idea about survivors, if any.

Peter
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, November 29, 2004 10:44 PM
On railpics again! Noted a SD45R, what does the R stand for and what are common rebuilding or original marks on locos?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Monday, November 29, 2004 10:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt,

Two types of SDP 45 were built. There were passenger service versions built for Southern Pacific and , I think Great Northern (GN also had SDP40s). Erie Lackawanna bought a number of "SDP45s" which had no steam generators, but used the longer frame to allow a larger fuel tank. I would be surprised if any remained, although some might have been rebuilt as SD40 locomotives. Less than twenty passenger service versions were built, and the FP45 effectively replaced the SDP45 for passenger service.

Peter


On another note how many freight locos(ALCO, GE, EMD,etc.) were offered with a passenger option?

I checked, and as far as I can tell, SP had ten SDP45s, GN had eight SDP45s but the "Freight Only" versions with EL numbered over thirty. Still no idea about survivors, if any.

Peter
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Bottom Left Corner, USA
  • 3,420 posts
Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 12:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Is former SDP40F#6976 in violation of FRA rules since it doesn't ditch lights on the front end?



The SDP40F/SDF40-2 story is pretty long, but prior to the notches being put in the nose, crews could not do rolling crew crew changes on these units so they were not allowed to lead consists anyway. In 1994 the notches were put in along with new front steps, allowing them to lead, but they started to store them around the time ditch lights were required, so they were not put on very many units and when they were used it was not as the lead unit. The MAERSK unit was only for a publicity shot, not to actually run. Here's some more info. http://atsf.railfan.net/cowls/sdp40f.html
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 4:22 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1


On another note how many freight locos(ALCO, GE, EMD,etc.) were offered with a passenger option?




All six axle U-boats were available with a steam generator, but only the AT&SF U28CG units were actually built. The AT&SF U30CG are basically the same but fitted with a cowl body.

No Alco Century units were built with passenger equipment apart from the C420s built for Long Island where the steam generator was placed in the (high) short hood but presumably the option was available on other units.

Some Mexican GP38s were built with high short hoods with steam generators, and there have been a few SDP35, SDP40 and SDP45 units built. There have been GP40P units with rear mounted steam generators, but survivors have been fitted with HEP gear instead. Many GP40s have been rebuilt with HEP gear for commuter service.

SP had a number of GP9s and SD9s in commuter service out of San Francisco, as well as the SDP45s (post Amtrak) and the only GP40P-2s built. The passenger option with high hood units was fairly common, but SP's were amongst the last in service (until Caltrans took over with F40PH units).

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:37 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

On railpics again! Noted a SD45R, what does the R stand for and what are common rebuilding or original marks on locos?


"R" generally designates a rebuild, usually internal (prime mover etc...) Some railroads who rebuild their own locomotives choose different suffixes than others so I guess there really is no "standard".

Common marks-
R- rebuild
M- rebuild or modified (sometimes designates that prime mover has been de-rated)
E- electrical
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: roundhouse
  • 2,747 posts
Posted by Randy Stahl on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:54 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

E for Electrical? Who used that?
Same ones that use "Q" for quick !
Randy
  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 12:31 PM
Monon had two of its C420's equipped with steam generators to handle the "Thoroughbred" in its last days. NdeM also had some of its C628's and 20 U36CG's equipped with steam generators.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:22 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

E for Electrical? Who used that?
Same ones that use "Q" for quick !
Randy


I always thought that was Q for *** as in the BQ23-7


Q for Quarters only 10 built ended up as B units and windows plated over.
Info from Model Railroader
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:26 PM
How much fuel does the 16-710G, 16-645, 16-567 turbocharged diesels burn per hour at each of the notches? How much horsepower is produced at each of those notches?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:31 PM
What's the largest fuel tank size on a diesel electric loco? Steam loco?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:36 PM
What was the largest fuel tender ever used by steam or other locos? Biggest fuel bunker for coal and oil? Biggest water tank?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:41 PM
What kind of fuel injector systems are there in diesel engines and what's the system used to identify them?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: West Coast
  • 4,122 posts
Posted by espeefoamer on Thursday, December 2, 2004 6:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1


On another note how many freight locos(ALCO, GE, EMD,etc.) were offered with a passenger option?




All six axle U-boats were available with a steam generator, but only the AT&SF U28CG units were actually built. The AT&SF U30CG are basically the same but fitted with a cowl body.

No Alco Century units were built with passenger equipment apart from the C420s built for Long Island where the steam generator was placed in the (high) short hood but presumably the option was available on other units.

Some Mexican GP38s were built with high short hoods with steam generators, and there have been a few SDP35, SDP40 and SDP45 units built. There have been GP40P units with rear mounted steam generators, but survivors have been fitted with HEP gear instead. Many GP40s have been rebuilt with HEP gear for commuter service.

SP had a number of GP9s and SD9s in commuter service out of San Francisco, as well as the SDP45s (post Amtrak) and the only GP40P-2s built. The passenger option with high hood units was fairly common, but SP's were amongst the last in service (until Caltrans took over with F40PH units).



The FCP in Mexico,had both ALCos (and MLW) and U-boats equipped with steam generators.
Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 2, 2004 7:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

E for Electrical? Who used that?


Helm does for their C36-7EM's. Basically, its an upgraded C36-7 with micro processor controls and is close to C40-8 status. These units are sometimes called C36-8M. SP also had GP9E's and SD9E's but "E", in this case, did not stand for electrical. I think it had something to do with the R8 rebuild program.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Traveling in Middle Earth
  • 795 posts
Posted by Sterling1 on Thursday, December 2, 2004 7:12 PM
What's the difference between C39-8 and C39-8E? How many of each were built and what month/years?
"There is nothing in life that compares with running a locomotive at 80-plus mph with the windows open, the traction motors screaming, the air horns fighting the rush of incoming air to make any sound at all, automobiles on adjacent highways trying and failing to catch up with you, and the unmistakable presence of raw power. You ride with fear in the pit of your stomach knowing you do not really have control of this beast." - D.C. Battle [Trains 10/2002 issue, p74.]
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 2, 2004 7:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

How much fuel does the 16-710G, 16-645, 16-567 turbocharged diesels burn per hour at each of the notches? How much horsepower is produced at each of those notches?


16-645 in a GP/SD40-2-

Notch 1- 5.5 gallons/hour
2- 8
3- 41
4- 57
5- 80
6- 108
7- 146
8- 168

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's the largest fuel tank size on a diesel electric loco?


I believe its the 8,200 gallon tank used on the DD40AX.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

What's the difference between C39-8 and C39-8E? How many of each were built and what month/years?


A total of 136 C39-8 units were built from 1983-1986. C39-8E production totaled 25 units from 1986-1987. Sorry, I do not know the months.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy