Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

[daveklepper]

Little Joes were not, as I remember, significantly more powerful hp-wise than a GG-1, nor more tractive effort than a GG-1 with lower speed freight gearing or than particularly the New Haven's last freight electrics before the ex-Virginians. I think they were EF-3's. They were very powerful, more powerful than the rectifier ex-Virginians by quite a bit, with a short time horsepower about 9000. They had enough tractive effort to handle anything, singly, the New Haven put behind them on the Hell Gate Bridge grades, probably the most tractive effort of any electric anywhere. Same wheel arrangement, 4-6-6-4. Occasionally, they were used on Penn Station passenger trains, and three or four had train boilers installed, but not originally. Their top speed was only 60mph, not to say that some engineers didn't take a chance and exceed the speed on occasion. They had streamlined double-end body like the EP-4 passenger 4-6-6-4 locomotives.
They may in fact have been North America's most powerful practical locomotive! They were never equipped with 3rd rail shoes and could only work off 11000V 25cps AC catenary. Everyone knowledgeable agrees McGinnis was wrong to scrap them, resulting from you know who's bad advice as part of the second order for FL-9's. They were really just great locomotives in every way. The cabs were a lot better for the engineers than the GG-1's which were really rather primitive.

[edblysard]

http://yardlimit.railfan.net/mk/
http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/switcher/gp20d/

Try these...
The top link has a lot of info and some photos for the MK/MPI version.
The bottom link is GM/EMD's site.

What did you want to know about the MK1500D?
I ride on one every day....

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&sort=D&output=3&cmdtext=%22ANDERSON%2C+NORMAN+E.%22

This link has several articles on MK Rail (MPI, Boise Locomotive, pick a name[:D])

Ed

[Sterling1]

Why did I forget that Wabtec and MPI were related? Hmmm I didn't read my sources . . .
Here's Wabtec's website:
http://www.wabtec.com/railroad/locomotive.asp

[Sterling1]

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

[Sterling1]

Through the group that I am afiliated with I found this website for EMD, GE and Alco loco specs: http://www.geocities.com/guilford_350
and this one for rolling stock and loco rosters: http://www.freewebs.com/railine/index.htm
Matt

[Sterling1]

Got these websites for pictures:
http://naphotos.nerail.org/
http://www.railpictures.net/
For SE Missouri: http://www.trainweb.org/semorails
http://www.railfan.net/
For New England: http://www.railfanzone.com/index.php

Matt

[Sterling1]

In addition to those websites, anyone of middle, high school age can become a member of this website to which I'm afiliated with:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/trainsrule/

Matt

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

Opps!!! I didn't realize that the mechanics would find those malicious problems within the prime mover and radiator and debug the microprocessor control system (MCPCS) all in one precious night!!!

Matt

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Must be a slow night at the loco and car shops . . .

Opps!!! I didn't realize that the mechanics would find those malicious problems within the prime mover and radiator and debug the microprocessor control system (MCPCS) all in one precious night!!!

Matt

OK, OK, OK, it's time to close up shop for the night, see you in the dawn of morning or is it hte night shift; I don't know . . . . .[|)] [|)] [|)]

[Sterling1]

Found a good website for Amtrak, date photos:
http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/

[Sterling1]

I was on the railpics site and found these links to NS's ES40DC locos:
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php
a rooftop shot:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/n/NS9913.jpg.81634.thumb
At GE-NS interchange with a red switcher that I want to know more about:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/g/GE_Test_Train_Erie,PA_6-18-04_1833hrs.JPG.70077.thumb
Interiors:
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_010.jpg.98236.thumb
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_011.jpg.83663.thumb
http://www.railpictures.net/images/r/roger_009.jpg.43200.thumb
***Note: they are all thumbnails but click on them again and you'll get the big, wide and full picture.[:D] [;)] [(-D] [:D] [;)] [(-D] [:D] [;)] [(-D] [swg]

Matt

[Sterling1]

I recently went to railpicsnet and got me some pictures that I set as backgrounds and saved them onto the harddrive. Had the ES40DC engineer's control stand as the background picture to replace one I found on the Trains website. The details are quite as it is a close up and I can see all the modern parts of AAR control stand in a GE loco; also have the cab bulkhead and conductor's desk, neither are quite that appealing for now to look at!!! [:D] [;)] [(-D]

[Sterling1]

looks like a slow time at this topic's forum at least for the past few days, must be Thanksgiving!!!

[daveklepper]

Correction, five New Haven EF-3's were equipped with train heating boilers. Actually, they were not replaced by the FL-9 second order, but by the GP-9's that were ordered at the same time. And it took four GP-9's (a good locomotive at its time, too) to handle the freight train that one EL-3 hauled. George Alpert was McGinnis's successor, and it was actually his decision. These really were excellent locomotives, the pinnacle of the design philosophy of the GG-1. The GG-1 was based on the New Haven EP-3, and then the later New Haven EP-4 and EF-3 were developed from the GG-1. The EF-3 is worthy of being included in any list of the World's most powerful locomotives.

After the EF-3, practical rectifier locomotives were developed, and that led to 60 Hz power (50 Hz in Europe), which is why none of these AC-commutator motor locomotives would be used today, even if restored. They were designed for 25 Hz (cylces per second) power. The rectifier equipment can be and is designed to work on both systems, thus Acela does still see 25-Hz power south of New York, and the New Jersey Transit Penn Station - Dover & Gladstone trains use both kinds of power. And of course the rectifier locomotives use the same motors as diesels, or at least can. AC motor locomotives are possible like Amtrak's AEM-7, by the frequency at the motor (Hz, cylces-per-second) varies with speed and is different than the power line frequency, which is 60 Hz or 25 Hz. Will we ever see a modern electric with the power of the EF-3? It would require freight railroad electrification, and until then the EF-3 remains the most powerful electric that ran in North America, and I don't know of any more powerful anywhere else. Does anybody? By power, I'm looking at both horsepower and tractive effort.

[ckape]

Mostly what I wanted to know was the relationship between the MK1500D and the GP15D, and the same for the MK2000D and the GP20D

[edblysard]

Brian,
Same locomotives, different paint...
The MK1500D is the "New" EMD GP15, the MK2000D is the GP20.
Boise Locomotive, or MK Rail, or Motive Power Inc...(pick a name, same folks) manufactor the GPs under license for EMD.
The only major difference between the EMD version and the MK version is all the EMD have the computer read out for the systems monitor on the back cab wall. the MKs didnt have the monitor in any other than the MPEX1501, the CMC1502, and MPEX1602.
By the way, the MPEX1602 is a C+C truck, 2000HP A/C powered locomotive, really a fine switcher, I love working with it...

UP has a lease fleet of the EMD GP15s and 20s on lease from CEFX, all of the 20s have dynamic brakes, none of the 15s I saw did.

The EMD models have a better fuel system management program, they load up a lot faster than the older MKs.

Ed

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know the deal with EMD#121 "BL20-2"? Found a picture of it in ralipics while at BL2s; info much appreciated . . .

[Sterling1]

Does anyone have details on the ballast unloader used:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=74273

I need all the details, MOW trains are an area of RR that I haven't hada chance to see yet . . .

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know if HLCX 3951 the cab and the front door was an aftermarket job or one done at the factory, are there any running notes about that particular unit and was it the only one to receive that treatment?

[Sterling1]

Does anyone know why GP60M and GP60B locos were built and how many survive? Why did they order GP60B even at all they don't have any cabs!!!

[M636C]

Matt

The EMD BL20-2 was a rebuild of a GP9 using the original frame and engine but a new carbody. There is a bit of a mystery (to me) about the engine, because it appears to have a turbocharger, but at only 2000HP, there are easier ways of getting this power (just using a blower 16-645E comes to mind). Also, some references to the engine referred to a "supercharger" rather than a "Turbocharger". The engine is sometimes described as being a 567 (8-1/2" cylinder liners) and other times as a 645 (9-1/16" cylinder liners). But apart from that difficulty, it's a rebuilt GP9 with a new carbody - but nobody bought any so EMD was left with the original three units intended as demonstrators.

Peter

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Matt

The EMD BL20-2 was a rebuild of a GP9 using the original frame and engine but a new carbody. There is a bit of a mystery (to me) about the engine, because it appears to have a turbocharger, but at only 2000HP, there are easier ways of getting this power (just using a blower 16-645E comes to mind). Also, some references to the engine referred to a "supercharger" rather than a "Turbocharger". The engine is sometimes described as being a 567 (8-1/2" cylinder liners) and other times as a 645 (9-1/16" cylinder liners). But apart from that difficulty, it's a rebuilt GP9 with a new carbody - but nobody bought any so EMD was left with the original three units intended as demonstrators.

Peter

Thanks for the info Peter, what were the numbers of the demos?
How many demos (all and any models) did EMD manufacture throughout their history?

[M636C]

The road numbers of the BL20-2 units were 120-122.

Peter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Does anyone know why GP60M and GP60B locos were built and how many survive? Why did they order GP60B even at all they don't have any cabs!!!

There were a total of 63 GP60M's built from June 1990 to September 1990 and a total of 23 GP60B's built from July 1991 to September 1991.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1How many demos (all and any models) did EMD manufacture throughout their history?

I did a quick search on Google and found this- http://www.hosam.com/emd/emddemo.html

It doesn't list all the demos (I noticed the list is missing demos made from the mid-80's and onward) but has many F-unit, GP, and SD demos so it may be of some interest.

[Overmod]

If Bergie reads this thread, he may have distinctive competence to answer the EMD BL20-2 question.

He wrote an article about these locomotives in an early 1997 Model Railroader, if I remember correctly.

[locomutt]

Overmod,

You definitely remember correctly,It was March 1997;and I have the
complete article. It's a very good read.[:)] I should add;especially
if you want to "kit-bash" one[:D]

[Sterling1]

On railpics again as always: GP40X how many built, and survive, and any differences. Did EMD, ALCO, and GE make any locomtives that could be considered dogs or failures achieved at market?

[Sterling1]

Did these so called "dogs" ever really improve other products, or fail utterly? How many of each of these "dogs" were built, how long did they last and to what end ultimately?

[Sterling1]

I read up somewhere about SD40 being equipped to 4200hp is that correct and why?