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time for the unions to step up

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Posted by CHANCE2195 on Monday, July 28, 2014 9:03 PM

"Pathetic harmless victims left to die, rancid angle of death flying free."

Jeff Henneman

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Posted by RRKen on Monday, July 28, 2014 9:00 PM

Murray

RRKen

I will not loose sleep over the Perfessor forgetting,  quite unremarkable as I am.

 

What Ken meant to say was.........

It isn't what I meant to say, but how I meant to say it. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:58 PM

RRKen

Murray

zugmann

You forgot me on that list! Whistling

He forgot RRKen too.

I will not loose sleep over the Perfessor forgetting,  quite unremarkable as I am.

 

 

What Ken meant to say was.........

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Posted by RRKen on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:55 PM

Murray

zugmann

You forgot me on that list! Whistling

He forgot RRKen too.

I will not loose sleep over the Perfessor forgetting,  quite unremarkable as I am.

I never drink water. I'm afraid it will become habit-forming.
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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:46 PM

I don't know Schlimm.. I don't know if he's a professional kick boxer, an English prof, or just a lonely old man in a walker who is trying to reach out.  I would assume the latter and adjust  the tone of my critique accordingly. He  said some things that others didn't like...let's move on. .   

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Posted by cbqer on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:35 PM

As Ulrich says 2 in 52 years. My average has been about the same. 1 in 40 years. Not very good, yet those who think they are the good ones are probably the MBA type that comes out on a "Fact Finding". What a joke.

Dick

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:13 PM

schlimm
I might note that most of you do not use your actual names, either.   That sounds no alarms or whistles because I do understand how some employers operate.  If I worked for your railroads, given the current emphasis on the short term buck and the weakness of your unions, I would be cautious as well.

It's a common practice on forums of all sorts, and by folks of all sorts.  You'll find darn few real names on any forum.  Some may do so to "hide," as you suggest.  I think a majority, however, use their "screen name" to highlight some interest of theirs, be it a certain locomotive, a railroad, a place, an interest, or some combination of those, at least in the case of denizens of these forums.  Mookie, Mudchicken, Csshegewich, Eolafan, Bluestreak1, MP173, NKPGuy, Zardoz, and CopcarSS all come to mind here.  One fellow on a local forum here goes by "John Q. Public."

I would suggest that those who like to stir the pot are more likely to "hide" behind a screen name.

But it's not just a case of "hiding" one's identity.  Most forum members here aren't any more specific as to their location than their state, or maybe city - if it's of any size.  That anonymity serves as protection against any wingnuts who might decide to take physical exception to something someone posts here.

Your point about possible repercussions from employers is valid, and has a legal basis.  One topic that comes up all too often in the fire service is "suicide by social media," wherein someone makes a less-than-flattering statement or provides confidential information about their agency/employer on social media.  People have lost their jobs because of it.  In most cases, they have made no secret of their affiliation, oftimes posting pictures of themselves in firefighting garb and of their agency as part of their profile, potentially suggesting that they were speaking at least somewhat officially for that agency.

As for me (engineer and conductor for a tourist railroad, but a member of the forum since before I got on the railroad), "Tree68" has been a trademark of mine for well over 45 years.  I see no reason to change.  Some folks have learned my real name, and even where I live, via PM.  

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Monday, July 28, 2014 6:26 PM

Just checking... I thought it was my real name, I was right

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, July 28, 2014 6:21 PM

ACY
I believe most of us can respect anybody who does good, productive, honest work.  Since you've shown no willingness to give us this potentially useful information, I can only conclude that your work involves something illegal or in some way disreputable.  Using your own methodology, of course.

Mr. ACY;  Some of us see no useful reason to discuss our backgrounds.  Since they are not in the railroad industry, it adds nothing to the forum, only puffery.  And given the utterly shameful contempt with which some of your "pals" (not you) treated "Dwight Branch" when he was nice enough share his academic background, a person would be naive to do so since that time.  

I might note that most of you do not use your actual names, either.   That sounds no alarms or whistles because I do understand how some employers operate.  If I worked for your railroads, given the current emphasis on the short term buck and the weakness of your unions, I would be cautious as well.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:56 PM

Hmmmm.  The original topic had something to do with Unions, I think.  It's been so long ago that the memory is a bit hazy.

If you'd tell us something about your background, that might help us understand your point of view regarding the original topic.  I believe most of us can respect anybody who does good, productive, honest work.  Since you've shown no willingness to give us this potentially useful information, I can only conclude that your work involves something illegal or in some way disreputable.  Using your own methodology, of course.

Thanks for helping us to unravel this mystery.  Enquiring minds want to know.

Tom

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:55 PM

Murray

schlimm

They feel quite secure with themselves and their chosen careers. 

Unlike yourself and Euclid.

The both of you are too insecure (perhaps ashamed) to even say what you do for a "profession."

Citations?  This is not the defense of a Masters Thesis....

Murray,

You are getting awfully serious.  What happened to all that good time rock and roll humor?

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:44 PM

zugmann

schlimm
These would include, but not be limited to folks like Jeff Hergert, Carl (retired) BaltACD, and Don Oltmann.  They are open to discussion, probably because they feel quite secure with themselves and their chosen careers.  

You forgot me on that list! Whistling

He forgot RRKen too.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:43 PM

schlimm

They feel quite secure with themselves and their chosen careers. 

Unlike yourself and Euclid.

The both of you are too insecure (perhaps ashamed) to even say what you do for a "profession."

Citations?  This is not the defense of a Masters Thesis....

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:22 PM

schlimm
These would include, but not be limited to folks like Jeff Hergert, Carl (retired) BaltACD, and Don Oltmann.  They are open to discussion, probably because they feel quite secure with themselves and their chosen careers.  

You forgot me on that list! Whistling

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:19 PM

Euclid: 

Your fans?  Yep.  Both of them.

If you can't answer the question, could you just pipe down while the adults are trying to have a conversation?

Thanks ever so much.

Tom

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, July 28, 2014 2:17 PM

Murray

schlimm

You appear to be an angry person, like many of the railroaders.   However, there is no reason to believe that given the requirements of your former job you have anything more than your parochial high school education.  

The only purpose in my comment was to point out how some of the railroaders dismiss the comments of non-railroaders while at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications.   Judging by the insults I receive, they also have displayed little respect for professionals and folks in higher education beyond myself.

 

 

Schlimm:

 

I am not a railroader.  I am a retired veteran, and am now a working as a Senior Consultant.

The bottom line is that you demeanor does not fit well in this forum.  You have absolutely no respect for your fellow posters.  You are acerbic in your comments, and you seem to take great pleasure in how you mock the men and women of the railroad industry,

You really have no conception of how little you on regarded on this forum.  If that is your desire, then so be it.  But you have absolutely no right to call into question what the professional men and women in the rail transportation industry do day in and day out.

If you could perhaps interact in a more positive way, you posts would be received much more positively.

I'm sure you'll dismiss my comments, as well as the others that have immediately preceded me.  But I wanted to get on the record (speaking as a non-railroader) to point out how wrong your perceptions of our professional railroaders.

Pot, meet kettle.   You and others may not like my acerbic comments, but at least I say or ask something, while you seldom contribute any substantial information beyond your "humor" and barbed quips.   Name-calling?  Citations?  
There are many railroaders on the Trains forums who make valuable contributions.  These would include, but not be limited to folks like Jeff Hergert, Carl (retired) BaltACD, and Don Oltmann.  They are open to discussion, probably because they feel quite secure with themselves and their chosen careers.  

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:55 PM

Oh don’t be offended by my big chip comment.  I don’t think you or most have one.  My point was that anyone who believes outsiders have no right to question what they do in their profession have a big chip on their shoulder.  In fact I am sure that most railroaders do not feel that nobody has a right to question what they do or know.  But Murray apparently believes that. 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:29 PM

Well, since you like to discuss so many railroad issues at great length, I think it is only fair you tell us what you do for a living, since you like to criticize us so much (e.g. the big chip comment).  I could sit here and give a lecture on nuclear fission, but I'd be making up 99.99+% of it.  So yeah, context helps.

I ask again - what is your profession? Or at the very least - what is your field?

PS.  I know you are not going to answer.  And I know schlimm is going to respond with more insults.  And some more of us stupid railroaders will respond to that if we can gather enough brainpower to figure out how to use our computer machines and remember what that one letter is called... (you know, the one that looks like a man wearing a hat).  Eventually a mod will drop by and ask everybody to play nice, then a padlock will appear on the thread. And time marches on. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, July 28, 2014 1:21 PM

zugmann

Euclid
You have got to be kidding.

What is your profession, Euclid?

What difference does it make what my profession is?  I certainly don’t go around with a big chip on my shoulder believing that everybody who is not in my profession has no right to question my work.  Of course maybe all my fans believe that.   Cool  

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 28, 2014 12:58 PM

Euclid

 

You have got to be kidding.


 
I am absolutely serious Euclid.
 
An so are the other posters who have called you and Schlimm out.
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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 28, 2014 12:55 PM

Euclid
You have got to be kidding.

What is your profession, Euclid?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, July 28, 2014 12:52 PM

Murray

schlimm

You appear to be an angry person, like many of the railroaders.   However, there is no reason to believe that given the requirements of your former job you have anything more than your parochial high school education.  

The only purpose in my comment was to point out how some of the railroaders dismiss the comments of non-railroaders while at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications.   Judging by the insults I receive, they also have displayed little respect for professionals and folks in higher education beyond myself.

 

Schlimm:

...But you have absolutely no right to call into question what the professional men and women in the rail transportation industry do day in and day out.

You have got to be kidding.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 28, 2014 11:53 AM

schlimm

You appear to be an angry person, like many of the railroaders.   However, there is no reason to believe that given the requirements of your former job you have anything more than your parochial high school education.  

The only purpose in my comment was to point out how some of the railroaders dismiss the comments of non-railroaders while at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications.   Judging by the insults I receive, they also have displayed little respect for professionals and folks in higher education beyond myself.

 

 

Schlimm:

 

I am not a railroader.  I am a retired veteran, and am now a working as a Senior Consultant.

The bottom line is that you demeanor does not fit well in this forum.  You have absolutely no respect for your fellow posters.  You are acerbic in your comments, and you seem to take great pleasure in how you mock the men and women of the railroad industry,

You really have no conception of how little you on regarded on this forum.  If that is your desire, then so be it.  But you have absolutely no right to call into question what the professional men and women in the rail transportation industry do day in and day out.

If you could perhaps interact in a more positive way, you posts would be received much more positively.

I'm sure you'll dismiss my comments, as well as the others that have immediately preceded me.  But I wanted to get on the record (speaking as a non-railroader) to point out how wrong your perceptions of our professional railroaders.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, July 28, 2014 9:09 AM

schlimm

You appear to be an angry person, like many of the railroaders.   However, there is no reason to believe that given the requirements of your former job you have anything more than your parochial high school education.  

The only purpose in my comment was to point out how some of the railroaders dismiss the comments of non-railroaders while at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications.   Judging by the insults I receive, they also have displayed little respect for professionals and folks in higher education beyond myself.

  Speaking on behalf of non-railroaders, non-professors, and salesmen everywhere, none of your recent posts- last 6 months or so- have given much reason for anyone to show you much respect.  Think about it.  Most of your posts come off like a little boy at the zoo, poking at the lions through the cage bars.  Then, when the lions roars, you complain to the zookeepers.  Is that really how you wish to come across?

     Feel free to paraphrase my comments into whatever you wish them to mean. 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:42 AM

Schlimm:

Your bio doesn't say you're a professional at anything.  The evidence indicates perhaps professional troll.  Whatever your profession or level of education, you certainly are no star when it comes to making logical statements:

"...at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications."

Even an ignorant railroader such as I can see that as nonsense.  Railroaders, as a group, are some of the most matter-of-fact people I know.  They don't dismiss the statements of non-railroaders because the speaker is a non-railroader.  They dismiss the statements of people who are talking through their hat, whether that speaker is a railroader or not.  The respect of most railroaders is not conferred by a fancy title, but by the quality of the speaker's ideas, so maybe that has something to do with the lack of respect you believe you're getting. 

Lastly, I don't see any reason that you have any need or qualifications to analyze me or anybody else.  In fact, I am generally very happy and easy-going.  However, a person who changes my words and their meaning, and then presents the inaccurate "paraphrase" as a correct interpretation of my sentiments, is either ignorant or a liar.  I have tried unsuccessfully to get you and your pal to accept my original meaning, but have had no success.   I think you're both full of yourselves, but I don't think either of you is ignorant.  So I resent the lie.

I can imagine a Japanese diplomat, late on December 7, 1941, saying "Mr. Roosevelt, you appear to be an angry person."

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 28, 2014 8:35 AM

schlimm

You appear to be an angry person, like many of the railroaders.   However, there is no reason to believe that given the requirements of your former job you have anything more than your parochial high school education.  

The only purpose in my comment was to point out how some of the railroaders dismiss the comments of non-railroaders while at the same time being qualified in most other fields, though lacking in the qualifications.   Judging by the insults I receive, they also have displayed little respect for professionals and folks in higher education beyond myself.

Funny - you seem to be the angry one. 

Your whole post was nothing but a thinly-veiled insult against railroaders.  Yet you accuse us of lacking respect?

And because someone is a professor, does not mean they instantly deserve respect.  Respect is something that is earned.  Many with higher degrees have done nothing to earn it.

Zug

(yes, I have a college degree.  whoop-dee-doo)

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:16 PM

I've been away from the forum for a while due to personal matters, and due to difficulties with the computer.  I don't claim to know much about computers.  However, I do know something about communication in the English language, and I take serious offense at Schlimm's and Euclid's insistence on the notion that my statements can be better understood if they inaccurately "paraphrase" those statements.  I use quotation marks because the word carries with it an implication that the rephrasing ACCURATELY restates the ideas expressed in the original statement.  Since Euclid's "paraphrase" did not do that, I reject it categorically.  I stand by what I said, and not by his so-called paraphrase.

On July 26 at 10:05 PM, Euclid admitted that my comments were speculative; yet he insists that I expressed certainty about the events at Lac Megantic.  I say again that I wasn't there and neither was he, so neither of us can be certain about those events.

Euclid, you said "If someone says something, and I paraphrase it, my only purpose is to restate it because I don't understand what it means...."  If you don't understand it, what makes you think you're competent to restate (i.e., paraphrase) it?

As Tom Lehrer said on his album "That Was The Year That Was" (1965), "I feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up."  That is an accurate quote; not a paraphrase.

Neither Schlimm nor Euclid has entered a biography.  Therefore, I have no reason to suspect that either is a Professor in any scholarly field, even though others have used that term. Certainly, nothing I have read in their posts suggests any particular expertise in any field of study, nor any particularly high level of education, nor of intelligence.  That's not a paraphrase; it's just a logical conclusion drawn from the (admittedly limited) available information.  I have entered a bio because I have nothing to hide, no reason to dissemble, and nothing to apologize for.

I would like to quote (not paraphrase) Schlimm:

"It sees [sic] to me that the railroaders are not in a position of expertise when it concerns language.  Maybe we are to defer to your wisdom about railroading but when you make a declarative statement. [sic]  It is subject to examination. Euclid did not alter the meaning of what ACY said."

Let's see..... that would be a misspelling and an incomplete sentence in a single three-line paragraph.  I didn't count the lack of a comma after "but" because I have no idea how to correctly punctuate a nonsense sentence.  At my High School, Brother Harold would have certainly given you a poor grade for that one --- maybe a D+.

I don't think I am paraphrasing when I suggest that this paragraph is an affront to every railroad employee.  We are "not in a position of expertise when it concerns language", huh?  I guess you planned that comment as a dismissive, patronizing insult directed at me and presumably other railroaders on the forum.  However, since our hosts at Kalmbach trade in language, have you considered that this statement is an insult to every railroader who reads or writes for Trains, as well as Kalmbach's other publications?

I am reminded of Victor Fleming's wonderful 1930's film Treasure Island.  As Long John Silver (Wallace Beery) and Jim Hawkins (Jackie Cooper) leave the company of a motley group of pirates, Long John turns to Jim and says, "Will you join me in a bit of fresh air, Matey?  There's so much XXXXXXXXX* in here that I can't breathe properly."

* I won't put the actual word in here.  The moderators might think I'm insulting Schlimm and Euclid, and we wouldn't want that, would we?      

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, July 27, 2014 4:38 PM
schlimm

Murphy Siding

schlimm

It sees to me that the railroaders are not in a position of expertise when it concerns language.  Maybe we are to defer to your wisdom about railroading but when you make a declarative statement.  It is subject to examination.  Euclid did not alter the meaning of what ACY said.

  I'll paraphrase you, rather than directly quoting you.   What you're saying is, that it's common knowledge that many members of our forum actually do work for a railroad.  Since we have no reason to believe that Bucyrus is an English professor, it seems unreasonable to let him paraphrase you.

Not even close.   D+

Thank you!

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:41 PM

Murphy Siding

schlimm

It sees to me that the railroaders are not in a position of expertise when it concerns language.  Maybe we are to defer to your wisdom about railroading but when you make a declarative statement.  It is subject to examination.  Euclid did not alter the meaning of what ACY said.

  I'll paraphrase you, rather than directly quoting you.   What you're saying is, that it's common knowledge that many members of our forum actually do work for a railroad.  Since we have no reason to believe that Bucyrus is an English professor, it seems unreasonable to let him paraphrase you.

Not even close.   D+

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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