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Good bye, conductors?

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, July 18, 2014 7:10 PM

dehusman

There are no plans to use drones, what the agreement says is that if drones are used the work belongs exclusively to the master conductors.

There are many more far reaching impacts than drones or knuckles.

can you expand on this?  And what exactly will a master conductor do and from how far away?

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, July 18, 2014 7:03 PM

There are no plans to use drones, what the agreement says is that if drones are used the work belongs exclusively to the master conductors.

There are many more far reaching impacts than drones or knuckles.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, July 18, 2014 6:35 PM

Ok - I am a little slow on the uptake, but they can't do anything until they get PTC put into place and working without either screwing up or being down. 

Next - it was only the BNSF, no one else - yet. 

How many years in the future are we talking at this point.

I don't want to see a one man crew, but they didn't ask me, either.

Is a drone going to be able to just fly around and go tsk tsk tsk?  Or can it lift a knuckle and put it close to where needed?  Otherwise, what good is it? 

Are we working toward running model trains, only much bigger, much heavier, much faster and from how many states away?  I am thinking that PTC will stop the train if the engineer isn't responsive.  Well, fine and good from the train point of view, but what about someone calling about the engineer that is having some kind of a medical problem that renders him alive, but unable to respond or call for help? 

Is he/she just collateral damage - sorry about that? 

This was going on pre-Buffett, so it isn't his "dream" all of a sudden. 

Anyone want to tackle some answers for me or just continue to grumble about the situation? 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 6:06 PM
Yes Ed.. my question was about engineer alone verses engineer and conductor, and I think you and zugman answered it. Thank you.
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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:54 PM

I skimmed over the agreements the other day. This forum was a day late.

I know they want to use PTC as an excuse for one man operations.  But there are still many factors that still need more than one man, PTC or not.  But the people making these decisions never did the work, so what would they know?*  (and that includes some union officials).

I am wondering why we bother with fire extinguishers, smoke detectors and AED machines in railroad buildings.  I mean, most of the time we don't need them... so why bother with that extra expense? 

*- weren't we discussing the loss of institutional knowledge a few threads back?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:53 PM

Were you responding to me?

Because I aske the question of Ulrich.

As for the agreement you speak of, I will have a copy monday, and any change to the national requires ratification by all members, not just BNSF.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:41 PM

The issue is not about knuckle changing, as you would know if you skimmed over the agreements linked.  It is the first step in major changes in labor agreements as a result of PTC.    As Euclid/Bucyrus said way back, PTC and other technologies will lead to far more automation in operations.  As the Dylan song paraphrased goes, "You don't need a railroader to know which way the corporate wind blows."   Stormy seas ahead.

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:30 PM

Ulrich
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I can't change a knuckle. You can't run a business. Let's move on.

Yes, you can change a knucle, I can show you, and just about anyone else, how to do so in under 60 seconds.

I can also run a business, did so for several years, two auto part franchise, railroading is more fun.

Was your question about the engineer vs conductor and engineer an actual question you wanted answered?

I was trying to get you to think through all the steps needed to accomplish the task, with only an engineer, and with both., and get the train moving again.

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:05 PM

Changing the knuckle is not the issue.  It only takes a few minutes if you halfway know what you are doing. It's not like you have to be touched by the Gods to be able to swap one out. 

But with an engineer, you can change a knuckle pretty quick since you are able to bring the parts to you, and not have to walk them in.  And not delaying that UPS train behind you a few hours will probably more than make up for your salary.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:04 PM
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I can't change a knuckle. You can't run a business. Let's move on.

Au Contraire any idiot can run a business (how well and how long are other matters).  I can qualify as a idiot if you prefer.

The reality is that trains, being mechanical things, will break - PERIOD. 

They don't fix themselves - PERIOD.

They must be fixed - PERIOD. 

How long it takes to resume movement ends up affecting the bottom line and the fluidity of your property.

BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I can't change a knuckle. You can't run a business. Let's move on.

Au Contraire any idiot can run a business (how well and how long are other matters).  I can qualify as a idiot if you prefer.

The reality is that trains, being mechanical things, will break - PERIOD. 

They don't fix themselves - PERIOD.

They must be fixed - PERIOD. 

How long it takes to resume movement ends up affecting the bottom line and the fluidity of your property.

Any idiot can fly a commercial jet then too... but for how long and how well is also a matter for debate. Same with every line of work. I can do surgery without any training at all.. but not very well. Yes everything breaks...
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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:02 PM
I don't know... we all have our areas of expertise. Warren Buffett probably wouldn't be able to change a knuckle either.. but I've heard he is good at other things. No one person knows it all or even a small part of it.
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 18, 2014 5:00 PM

Ulrich
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I can't change a knuckle. You can't run a business. Let's move on.

Au Contraire any idiot can run a business (how well and how long are other matters).  I can qualify as a idiot if you prefer.

The reality is that trains, being mechanical things, will break - PERIOD. 

They don't fix themselves - PERIOD.

They must be fixed - PERIOD. 

How long it takes to resume movement ends up affecting the bottom line and the fluidity of your property.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:58 PM

Probably some government weenie sitting behind a computer somewhere running a statistics program coming up with this idea. 

Thinks Knuckles is a character in a Sonic the Hedgehog game.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:52 PM
schlimm

zugmann

Ulrich
Whoever wrote the article said it.

They're still full of crap. 

And the piece doesn't specify who made that statement.  I hope it wasn't some 'official' with the Office of Management and Budget.  They probably know as much about railroading as my cat does.

It is the underlying assumption of the agreement one of the rail unions is signing with BNSF.   Maybe you should address them with your concerns and anger.   It's not the non-railroaders who are saying and doing this.

Yeah take it up with Warren Buffett...its his management team that came up with this idea... maybe he can change a knuckle.
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:49 PM

Euclid

We have had many versions of this conversation before, and each time, it seems like the entire march of progress stops when it gets to those pesky knuckles. 

Just like the movement of a train stops when those pesky knuckles get broken.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:47 PM
BaltACD

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I can't change a knuckle. You can't run a business. Let's move on.
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Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:47 PM

BaltACD

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

I have a feeling this is going to get interesting. Big Smile

Norm


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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:46 PM

zugmann

Ulrich
Whoever wrote the article said it.

They're still full of crap. 

And the piece doesn't specify who made that statement.  I hope it wasn't some 'official' with the Office of Management and Budget.  They probably know as much about railroading as my cat does.

It is the underlying assumption of the agreement one of the rail unions is signing with BNSF.   Maybe you should address them with your concerns and anger.   It's not the non-railroaders who are saying and doing this.

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:46 PM

We have had many versions of this conversation before, and each time, it seems like the entire march of progress stops when it gets to those pesky knuckles. 

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:46 PM
Norm48327

schlimm

"No evidence has surfaced that a second person in the locomotive cab contributes to a more-safe operation, while evidence exists that the second person in the cab can cause a safety hazard."

Think you'd want to fly in an airliner that has only one pilot? The first officer is there for a safety factor as well as to share the load. Engineer has a heart attack. No one in the cab to initiate emergency braking; what's gonna happen next?

Brakes applied from a remote location.
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:44 PM

Ulrich
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?

Map out the game plan - 1 man or 2.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:42 PM
BaltACD

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

That doesn't really help. One person by him/herself would find it difficult to change a knuckle... is that correct?
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Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:38 PM

schlimm

"No evidence has surfaced that a second person in the locomotive cab contributes to a more-safe operation, while evidence exists that the second person in the cab can cause a safety hazard."

Think you'd want to fly in an airliner that has only one pilot? The first officer is there for a safety factor as well as to share the load. Engineer has a heart attack. No one in the cab to initiate emergency braking; what's gonna happen next?

Norm


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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:37 PM

Let's let the non-railroaders figure all the moves required to fix a broken knuckle?

No professional help please - and don't hurt yourselves laughing!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:26 PM
Possibly...probably..maybe..
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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:26 PM

Ulrich
Whoever wrote the article said it.

They're still full of crap. 

And the piece doesn't specify who made that statement.  I hope it wasn't some 'official' with the Office of Management and Budget.  They probably know as much about railroading as my cat does.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:25 PM
Whoever wrote the article said it.
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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:24 PM

The article said that.  Take your issue up with the magazine of you believe that to be false..

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:22 PM

schlimm

"No evidence has surfaced that a second person in the locomotive cab contributes to a more-safe operation, while evidence exists that the second person in the cab can cause a safety hazard."

Who said that?  They are full of crap. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 18, 2014 4:22 PM
OK, the train is now immobile. You're saying it takes two people to carry the replacement knuckle back... if they weigh that much then I can appreciate that. So engineer and conductor BOTH go back with the replacement knuckle.. is that how its generally done?

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