erikem Leo_Ames Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry. An article on Eonline (Entertainment on line?) about the remembrance gestures for the young woman who died, stated that the film crew had permission to film near the tracks but not on the tracks.
Leo_Ames Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry.
Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry.
An article on Eonline (Entertainment on line?) about the remembrance gestures for the young woman who died, stated that the film crew had permission to film near the tracks but not on the tracks.
I'm talking about the subject of the thread which is trespassing on CSX property. Obviously had they restricted their activities to where they actually had permission to be, this would've never happened.
This article was in today's (2-27-14) The State newspaper; on the front page!
http://www.thestate.com/2014/02/26/3293332/west-columbia-native-killed-while.html
Notice the 2 paragraphs that begin with "An investigator with the Wayne County (Ga.) Sheriff's Department said ........."
Leo_AmesI'm talking about the subject of the thread which is trespassing on CSX property. Obviously had they restricted their activities to where they actually had permission to be, this would've never happened.
It certainly appears the film crew did not have permission to be where they were - with terrible, awful results.
I was rather amazed that the early reports totally ignored the issue - not even saying they were unable to determine if there was trespassing or not.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
ACYSeveral days ago, it was reported in the media that a sergeant in the Sheriff's department questioned a Producer (or Producer's representative) on the question of permission from CSX. The reply: "It's complicated". To say "Yes, we had permission" is a clear statement. To say "It's complicated" is suggestive of something else. It's about a half inch short of an admission that they didn't have permission.
I read that too. I want to know why we are not told what the sheriff said in reply to the person who said the question of permission is complicated.
The news coverage of this whole indicident seems to be really dancing around the issue of blame. Lately, they have reported that the film crew was just in too much of a hurry with too much pressure to get the job done.
When is the media going to tell us who told the film crew about two trains coming, and maybe a third one, but it will blow the horn so there will be time to get out of its way?
From what the media is now reporting, that advice about the two or three trains could not have come from CSX, as originally reported. Did the film company fabricate that story as an excuse?
EuclidFrom what the media is now reporting, that advice about the two or three trains could not have come from CSX, as originally reported. Did the film company fabricate that story as an excuse?
I opined earlier that perhaps someone from Rayonier offered that information, based on their experience, not on any actual knowledge of CSX operations. "Yeah - there's normally only a couple of trains through here about then..."
Too, we don't know how long they had been shooting at that site - if it was several days, they may have gotten an idea of what they thought "normal" rail traffic on the line is on their own.
Of course we know there is no such thing as "normal" rail traffic, but if you're trying to meet a deadline, you'll believe just about anything that furthers your cause.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"When is the media going to tell us who told the film crew about two trains coming, and maybe a third one, but it will blow the horn so there will be time to get out of its way?"
Don't hold your breath.
Norm
The news media and the public in general have an attention span so short that the media folks started looking elsewhere for something to sensationalize within two days of this incident.
oltmannd Leo_AmesI'm talking about the subject of the thread which is trespassing on CSX property. Obviously had they restricted their activities to where they actually had permission to be, this would've never happened. It certainly appears the film crew did not have permission to be where they were - with terrible, awful results. I was rather amazed that the early reports totally ignored the issue - not even saying they were unable to determine if there was trespassing or not.
A few years ago the President and CEO of the AAR was addressing a group of us and told the tale of a phone call they received from Time Magazine. They wanted to confirm a rumor they had heard; they had been told that railroads were "private property." AAR confirmed this to the amazement of the magazine. Time went on to poll business leaders as to railroad ownership and the majority believed we were either public property or public/private partnerships. What the American public does not know is what makes them the American public.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Back in the Mid 1970's the TV show The Rockford Files had a episode in which one of the characters was removed somehow from the Coast Starlight near San Luis Obispo CA. Southern Pacific did allow the scene to be filmed on it's tracks but not the main coast line. Filming was done on the end of a old Pacific Electric branch near Marina Del Rey CA. This shot was less than a hundred yards from the end of the track. I never saw a train ever on this track west of Alla junction. This line at one time went to Redondo Beach Ca and last saw a train to Redondo in late 1940. A very safe location for filming.
Here is a web site of a consulting company that helps movies operate on RR property. enough said
http://www.rtms-movietrains.com/
good to know there are real professionals in the business!
Looks like the Academy will honor the young woman, who was killed, tonight at the Oscars award ceremony..
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Having read as much of this I can find, in my own mind I am pretty convinced what we had here was an alleged case of "give an inch, take a mile" mixed with a little guerrilla film-making. This is all my own speculation (allegedly) but it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out (not assuming any out of court settlements) but I suspect a film company may be about to be sued out of existence (allegedly).
IMHO having gotten permission from Rayonier (allegedly) to film on the adjacent property but not from CSX (allegedly) to film on the tracks, this being a small production with limited budget and an on-the-fly film schedule, someone (allegedly) decided 'it won't take that long' to take advantage of the apparent lack of trains and set up and shoot on the bridge on the sly. Hence no flagmen, no fall protection, and none of the safety measures that would be de rigueur on any other major film production. and they (allegedly) got caught unaware because they had no schedule, no CSX flagman, no nothing to tell them another train was approaching, and a young woman payed for someones (allegedly) throwing caution to the wind because (allegedly) 'they just had to get that shot'.
Its not uncommon to have some very bad accidents on smaller productions simply because the film-makers (allegedly) try to cut corners or shoot scenes in places they are not supposed to be anywhere near in the first place. Again this is just my personal perspective but what I'm saying is not unheard of (allegedly).
Sorry for all the (alleged) use of the word "alleged", but just watch - this is going to get (allegedly) very very ugly (allegedly) very very fast and the number of lawsuits flying around (allegedly) are going to look like a Biblical plague of locust (allegedly). Anyone speculating should protect themselves (allegedly).
Have fun with your trains
vsmith Having read as much of this I can find, in my own mind I am pretty convinced what we had here was an alleged case of "give an inch, take a mile" mixed with a little guerrilla film-making. This is all my own speculation (allegedly) but it will be very interesting to see how this shakes out (not assuming any out of court settlements) but I suspect a film company may be about to be sued out of existence (allegedly). IMHO having gotten permission from Rayonier (allegedly) to film on the adjacent property but not from CSX (allegedly) to film on the tracks, this being a small production with limited budget and an on-the-fly film schedule, someone (allegedly) decided 'it won't take that long' to take advantage of the apparent lack of trains and set up and shoot on the bridge on the sly. Hence no flagmen, no fall protection, and none of the safety measures that would be de rigueur on any other major film production. and they (allegedly) got caught unaware because they had no schedule, no CSX flagman, no nothing to tell them another train was approaching, and a young woman payed for someones (allegedly) throwing caution to the wind because (allegedly) 'they just had to get that shot'. Its not uncommon to have some very bad accidents on smaller productions simply because the film-makers (allegedly) try to cut corners or shoot scenes in places they are not supposed to be anywhere near in the first place. Again this is just my personal perspective but what I'm saying is not unheard of (allegedly). Sorry for all the (alleged) use of the word "alleged", but just watch - this is going to get (allegedly) very very ugly (allegedly) very very fast and the number of lawsuits flying around (allegedly) are going to look like a Biblical plague of locust (allegedly). Anyone speculating should protect themselves (allegedly).
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
ACYDid I miss something at the Academy Awards last night? Before the Great Display, there was talk of people wearing black ribbons as a reminder of the death of Sarah Jones, but I never saw any. The Academy said they couldn't put a mention into the Pageant because she didn't die within the right time frame. Poor planning on her part, I guess. Then they said there might be some mention. I paid close attention to the tribute to those who have passed away and almost missed it. Her name flashed on the bottom of the screen just as they were cutting away for a commercial. I saw the name, but the lettering below it was too small to read. I tried to move closer, but it was gone and the commercial was on before I could get closer. It may have been on the screen for two seconds; three at most. I guess that's my fault for having bad eyes. So now we know how seriously Hollywood takes her death, and I suspect we can now make safe predictions as to the long-term impact her death will have on the film industry. Very sad. They think of her as just another face on the cutting room floor. I may never watch the academy awards again. I don't even feel much like capitalizing it. Sarah, You deserved much better from the hypocrites who called you a Colleague.
oltmannd Can anyone puzzle out what happened from this article? Was the entire film crew tresspassing?
Can anyone puzzle out what happened from this article? Was the entire film crew tresspassing?
One has to wonder if this film company was incorporated just for this film ? Someone once said that many films are made by a one time only company ? Might be for legal and money reasons ?
blue streak 1 oltmannd Can anyone puzzle out what happened from this article? Was the entire film crew tresspassing? Here is a very detailed article published by a Hollywood paper http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/midnight-rider-accident-sarah-jones-death-gregg-allman-685976?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_now_knordyke
7,000 ton 60 MPH Gorilla defeats 'Gorilla Filmmaker'
The article indicates this production company had done scenes in other productions and displayed a total lack of safety awareness, just as they had for the scene that caused Ms. Jones death.
I can foresee a Voluntary Manslaughter charge being filed againt the responsible party(s).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
“This was no accident,” says Ray Brown, president of the Motion Picture Studio Mechanics union local 479 in Atlanta and a Jones colleague, suggesting the incident was avoidable. “When I have done train work or around trains for smaller productions up to major blockbusters, there are always several railroad personnel there with their hard hats, glasses and radios, and I can’t imagine a more structured safety protocol even beyond airlines than the rail system.”
Again, had CSX given permission, they would have insisted on a flagman and lookout being present and involved.
23 17 46 11
BaltACD...displayed a total lack of safety awareness...
Or perhaps just a total disregard for safety...
I called it pretty concisely (allegedly), funny how when one reads about this they can just see what happened...(allegedly)
The Hollywood Reporter story stated pretty much what I could see in my mind, a no-budget film missing key personal (medic for example(allegedly)), no coordination with the railroad because they had been told in no uncertain terms NO(allegedly), and a director who doesn't let "the man" tell him how to create his art and willing to take dangerous risks with his cast and crew to get "the shot'(allegedly). The comment about the crew bragging about "guerrilla film-making " in the past pretty much sealed it(allegedly). The director Miller now IS going to face prosecution for this, that WILL happen I have no doubt about that, whether its for murder or manslaughter remains to be seen(allegedly).
If they only had 60 second warning a train was coming(allegedly), how in the hell did the director expect them to get a full bedframed bed OFF the bridge along with everything else and all the people(allegedly)? This guy deserves no sympathy...he deserves jail time IHMO (allegedly)
Its really sad to see something like this happen, I keep thinking if the filmakers had bothered to think, they could have found several RR bridges either on little used branchline or even abandoned lines, probably in very close proximity, where they could have set up and shot as long as it took without risk. To decide "No I want THIS bridge" and set up on an active RR mainline with a complete disregard for your crews safety(allegedly), is truly astonishing. (allegedly)
One thing that bugs me about all of this, from all sides…while sadly a young lady died, and another one was injured for the rest of her life, along with the others who were hurt….no one seems to give a flip about the train crew.
“The Train” is spoken of as if the locomotive is some impersonal unmanned robot; no mention of the fact there was an engineer and conductor who have to live with this too.
I agree. Terrible to be an engineer in any situation like that. But it is not new. Doug Riddle went into this kind of thing quite thoroughly in bis excellent book. And that photograph of a truck trailer straddeling the track with the driver and helper standing by the cab take from the front of the freight locomotive just stopping in time is permenantly engraved in my mind.
edblysard One thing that bugs me about all of this, from all sides…while sadly a young lady died, and another one was injured for the rest of her life, along with the others who were hurt….no one seems to give a flip about the train crew. “The Train” is spoken of as if the locomotive is some impersonal unmanned robot; no mention of the fact there was an engineer and conductor who have to live with this too.
While I agree. The reality of crews running trains on line of road for any length of time, The question isn't will I kill someone with a train I am operating, the only real question is WHEN.
Between, road crossing incidents, trespassers, deliberate suicides and all the other forms of stupidity that happen on and too close to the tracks, it is only a matter of time until a crew operating a train has someone die as a result of that trains operation.
Would that it was otherwise ... but it's not.
I think that most of us have that in the backs of our minds. What gets expressed here is the outrage that there are people stupid enough to cause an incident like this.
As for the rest of the public, perhaps the railroads need to start pointing this out - not just that there was a crew on the train - but that they are now dealing with the memory as well. Put a human face on that faceless train.
Many of the folks who do commit suicide by train, as well as incidents like this, likely wouldn't consider doing so in the middle of a busy highway - it's too personal - you can see the people's faces.
Interesting that the escape route (toward the oncoming train) was really the safest way to go. If you go the other direction you would be hit by the debris. Which most likely was one of the biggest source of injury.
Second, the bridge clearly has a wide grating which would have been a safe place for anyone. The concept of being sucked into an oncoming train is totally bogus, but I am sure the crew that took refuge along the side of the track felt an incredible wind that felt like a vacuum. If they had just laid down on the walkway, the train would pass. I suspect that most of the injuries were due to trying to stay with the bed and film equipment that was scattered along the track.
One question, we haven't asked - and to date I haven't seen answered.
Since the Director thought his 'scene' was so important that he felt it was worth putting his crew's lives in harms way - Did he get the shot?
Death in the pursuit of 'art' is only worthwhile if the 'art' desired is created.
This in no way excuses the Director's callous disregard for the safety of his crew - 27 years in prison would be poetic for the 27 years of Ms. Jones life that his actions caused to end.
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