Film crew death

[edblysard]

Not speculation, but my opinion and some assumption on my part.

After spending millions and millions and millions of dollars defending itself against the lawsuits brought about from grade crossing incidents and trespasser fatalities, where joggers and such walk the tracks with ear phones or ear buds in and get whacked, and then they or their survivors sue the carrier because the train didn’t take “evasive action”, or when folks decide the fishing is great off the trestle and discover there is no where to go when the train shows up, I find it hard to believe CSX would allow anyone, even a film crew, to simply go out and wander the property and foul tracks without a railroad flagman and lookout.

I find it hard to believe they would allow the film crew to foul live tracks for any reason, due to the liability issue.

As noted by another poster, simply being on the trestle is a great danger, regardless of the risk of a train showing up.

 

[gardendance]

Many of the commenters in http://variety.com/2014/film/news/midnight-run-crew-on-fatal-train-accident-no-corners-were-cut-1201116646/ seem to be film workers, just as many posters here seem to have at least a slight interest in railroading. Most of the variety commenters seem ready not to believe the film studio saying 'no corners cut'.

[cx500]

Not to mention it is very unlikely that the film crew had any fall protection equipment while out on the bridge.

As to CSX knowing they would be in the general area, I wonder if the film company had earlier approached the railroad about shooting some additional footage on the bridge.  When outright refused, or facing the necessity for safety training, PPE, payment for flagging services and limited windows, the crew dropped the request, at least officially.  Once out near the tracks (and notice they had the props on hand) they watched two trains go by and figured they could get away with it after all. 

Perhaps there had been several hours of inactivity on the rails prior to those first two trains.  I think we have all experienced those railfan days when the railroad sleeps for hours and hours, finally erupting into activity just when we absolutely must leave.  Those unfamiliar with rail operations can easily make a false assumption based on limited observation. 

This tragedy will provide a pointed lesson to the film industry and hopefully prevent any more.  The old adage about every safety rule being written in blood is fairly accurate.  In this case the rules are there but apparently were ignored, for some reason or excuse.

To comment on an earlier post, I am not surprised the CSX spokeswoman dodged the question about whether anybody from the railroad had given them permission.  I am sure she knew no authorized officer had done so but still had to be careful in case some local employee turned out to be implicated, even if through misinterpretation by the film crew.  And that was only going to be determined in the detailed investigation to come.

John

[Overmod]

gardendance

Many of the commenters in http://variety.com/2014/film/news/midnight-run-crew-on-fatal-train-accident-no-corners-were-cut...

Link truncated for a reason.

Did you notice all the tracking cookies and garbage on that site?  Know there are plenty if you choose to read those comments, and be prepared to clean out your browser afterward.

[gardendance]

Overmod, I know enough not to click on a "your account has been compromised, please enter all your personal info" email link, and I realize the bank of Nigeria doesn't really want to give me millions of dollars if I pay them a processing fee, but I'm not sure I'd be able to read much internet stuff without leaving some cookie crumbs.

I invoke the Gary Hart defense. Follow my cookies around, it'll be boring. I shudder to imagine how quickly the NSA would get tired of reading any of the things a foamer like me's cookie trail would reveal.

By the way, the link in my post sure looks like it's a follow-up article on the same domain as the link at the top of this thread. Is there any reason why you think my link deserves your warning message and not that top o' the thread to you link?

[Overmod]

gardendance

By the way, the link in my post sure looks like it's a follow-up article on the same domain as the link at the top of this thread. Is there any reason why you think my link deserves your warning message and not that top o' the thread to you link?

Yes, both links probably have the same issues, and my 'caution' applies to them both.  It's a consequence of Variety 'augmenting their income' by contracting with All Sorts Of Schemes.  This isn't about Nigerian scams, or NSA harvesting, as much as it's about large numbers of tracking cookies slowing your computer to a relative crawl. A large number of people using this forum are probably not interested in the ways of preventing or fixing these issues.

I only know about this stuff because my script filters catch it before it can load.  When I see more than eight trackers on a single site, a couple of which are 'known' offenders when it comes to storing and moving data at my expense solely for their benefit, I think it's worthy of a heads-up.  It is CERTAINLY not a criticism directed at you, and I cheerfully re-affirm that now.

[Anonymous]

petitnj

The most contradictory statement is that CSX provided the film crew with a "schedule". Has anyone ever heard of that as a means of permission to be on the track? I would like to hear if any of you have had contact with a railroad that just said "there will be a couple of trains thru here".

No. This is illegal under FRA regulations. They can and will fine railroads and/or workers who foul tracks without proper protection. "Fouling" is coming within fifteen feet of the track centerline. Proper protection is provided by a railroad flagman giving an audible warning or protection by a train dispatcher (more info in my post in the middle of page 1).

petitnj

If the film crew were to blame, it is time to start skewering these folks who use the tracks for their fun and profit. I have warned all of the professional photographers in the area that graduation pictures of coeds on the rails is an admission of a crime.

I'm with you there. As a photographer, this frustrates me to no end! I'd like to know who started the ridiculous fad of shooting portraits on tracks and give them a piece of my mind.

Forget the photographers' safety, I'm worried about these morons working with clients on the tracks: teens, newlyweds, even infants! In a photographer-client relationship, the former is in a position of power and very few clients will question their judgement, because the photographer is the expert. Sadly, that's not always true...

[mudchicken]

Ty: Can't speak for CSX, but out west Line Up w/ track car occupancy is still in the rulebooks....BNSF and UP ban the practice (at least a decade +)under GCOR, even under low density branchlines. CAN'T speak to NORAC. You can go out with visual rules and nothing on track.

[SALfan]

Randy Stahl: Just read your comment hoping this was a Lindsey Lohan film. Good one! Her life is already a figurative train wreck, she might as well have a real one in it.

[narig01]

I went and looked at the location on google maps near Jessup, Ga. I'm doing this from memory but IIRC that is CSX's main line from Savannah to Waycross. Gets something like 15 or 20 trains a day. The bridge is the becoming of a stretch of single track north to near Savannah. Rayonier has a couple of switch moves a day around their plant.
Rgds IGN

[Angela Pusztai-Pasternak]

Hello:

We've received a few complaints about this thread. Please understand that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. In some cases, we may have to agree to disagree. Rest assured Trains magazine will be watching this event closely. We will publish news stories in the News Wire and in the magazine, so we can all know the facts and outcomes as they occur. Please remember to be respectful with your posts, even if you disagree with another person's opinion. 

Thanks!
 

[SALfan]

Nari01: That Jesup has only one "s". Jessup, MD has two. Otherwise, you are correct. When I was in the area, Rayonier had their own switcher or a contract switcher to shove cars around.

[gardendance]

http://www.wsav.com/story/24780061/update-incident-report-on-train-accident-claims-no-permission-given

"according to a CSX employee, the production company had previously been denied permission to film on the trestle, and there was an e-mail to verify that fact.  The e-mail was betwee Charlie Baxter, the location manager and CSX employee Carla Groleau."

[Leo_Ames]

Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry. Only the type that automatically jumps to whatever conclusion is against the rail company in question would ever think that there was a reasonable chance that they did have permission, were out there without supervision and protection with CSX's blessing, were allowed on a trestle, etc. 

[Euclid]

Leo_Ames

Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry. Only the type that automatically jumps to whatever conclusion is against the rail company in question would ever think that there was a reasonable chance that they did have permission, were out there without supervision and protection with CSX's blessing, were allowed on a trestle, etc. 

I don’t recall anybody jumping to the conclusion that the railroad gave them permission.  The news media reported it both ways.  I do recall people jumping to the conclusion that the railroad did not give permission. 

[daveklepper]

But that is NOT jumping to "the"  conclusion.   Thaf is simply stating a known fact about the industry.

[D.Carleton]

(Slightly off topic so take it for what it's worth.) One of my pet peeves is fans posting photos with a caveat reading like 'photo taken with permission.' The previous pages of this thread have illuminated rather well the steps necessary for actual permission. If you have not taken those steps you do NOT have permission. If you have then that is between you and the railroad and it ends there. Don't attempt to answer the question that has not been asked.

[Semper Vaporo]

That is just an attempt to thwart the plethora of replies complaining about how the photo was taken without permission.

[D.Carleton]

Semper Vaporo

That is just an attempt to thwart the plethora of replies complaining about how the photo was taken without permission.

Again, that's between the railroad and the photographer. If the railroad chooses to (or not) prosecute that is their prerogative. Just because a fan claims to have permission does not make it so.

[tree68]

D.Carleton

Just because a fan claims to have permission does not make it so.

And there may lie the confusion sometimes...  What you tell me and how I interpret it may be two completely different things.  Ie, you say "here" to mean exactly where we're standing.  I interpret "here" to be the general area.

Too, as Mudchicken can tell you (and has been discussed on the forum in the past), things are not always what they seem when it comes to property lines.  That "public" parking lot you're standing in may, in fact, be railroad property. 

I know that from seeing the valuation maps of our line that the actual property lines may differ from what appears to be the case.

And we're all opportunists.  If someone who appears to be in authority says something is OK, we tend to take their word for it if it benefits us.  Subject to interpretation, as noted above.

[Sunnyland]

very sad situation, especially with young woman being killed.  But I'd be inclined to think that the film crew did not have permission to be on CSX bridge and property. If the railroad had known, they would  have used caution.  People are way too lax around RR property, our local paper has done stories about kids being killed while walking down tracks with earbuds on and not hearing the diesel horns.  Or cutting across tracks without looking, happens a lot around Kirkwood Station, which is very busy with UP trains passing and even Amtrak.  The volunteers are always chasing someone away when they can.  

My cousin in CA who is involved in the film industry sent me the initial link on the story and I shared with her what the variety article said.  Just having permission from the forestry company does NOT  include CSX property.  

[ACY Tom]

Just back from a trip down south. While there I had a chance to get some info from railroaders who work that area. This is supplemented with some comments from members of the film industry in a VARIETY online discussion (can't vouch for the accuracy of that), plus a report in bryancountynews.net this afternoon. I understand Trains has an item posted but I can't get it because I buy the mag over the counter & don't subscribe. The bridge in question used to be a drawbridge, but now spans a dry area at the edge of the Altamaha River. Railroaders estimate the height of tracks to be about 30' above the ground. On maps, the approach appears to be straight when approached from the south, but this is not quite correct. There is a very slight curve where the double track main merges into one to cross the single-track bridge. This is near the point where Rayonier's tracks split off from the mainline. If you pull up the map and lay a straightedge on it with one end at the point where the track comes onto the map on the NE side, and the other end where the track comes in from the SW, you can see this very slight curve. Authorized speed for intermodal freight trains is 60 mph, and there is no reason to think the train wasn't doing 60, or nearly that speed. One or more articles have said the film crew had about 15 seconds' warning, although I doubt anybody was measuring the time (unless some of the film crew's sound eqpt. was running). If these numbers are correct, the train was about 1/4 mile away when they first heard the horn What follows is my speculation: The film crew was on the bridge with a bed or mattress or both between themselves and their escape route. The T&E crew may not have been able to see into and through the truss drawspan because they were approaching at a slightly oblique angle, and possibly because of shadows, so they may not have had any hint that the bridge was occupied until they were 1/4 mile or less from the point of impact. As I said, this is a theory, but I think it's plausible. As for permission, etc., I'll let the lawyers fight that out.

[Semper Vaporo]

D.Carleton

Semper Vaporo

That is just an attempt to thwart the plethora of replies complaining about how the photo was taken without permission.

Again, that's between the railroad and the photographer. If the railroad chooses to (or not) prosecute that is their prerogative. Just because a fan claims to have permission does not make it so.

 

The 'notice' has nothing to do with the RR... it is a comment to tell the readers of the forum that the photographer had permission to take the photo, and if someone else wants to duplicate the shot (not copy the image) for their own collection, they need to obtain the same permission from the RR.  Also to tell the readers of the forum to lay off the complaints about "How'd you get that shot? You must have been trespassing!".

 

[gardendance]

I've seen 'you must have been trespassing' comments on photos that were obviously taken from the sidewalk at a public grade crossing, so I can believe that some photographers might worry that internet posters will try to unjustly complain about how they got their photos.

[D.Carleton]

Semper Vaporo

D.Carleton

Semper Vaporo

That is just an attempt to thwart the plethora of replies complaining about how the photo was taken without permission.

Again, that's between the railroad and the photographer. If the railroad chooses to (or not) prosecute that is their prerogative. Just because a fan claims to have permission does not make it so.

 

The 'notice' has nothing to do with the RR... it is a comment to tell the readers of the forum that the photographer had permission to take the photo, and if someone else wants to duplicate the shot (not copy the image) for their own collection, they need to obtain the same permission from the RR.  Also to tell the readers of the forum to lay off the complaints about "How'd you get that shot? You must have been trespassing!".

 

Remember: "Never feel the need to explain yourself. You friends won't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway."

[greyhounds]

 

Remember: "Never feel the need to explain yourself. You friends won't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway."

There are people who are neither your friend nor you enemy.  Those are the ones you try to influence.  So explaining often goes a long way.

[erikem]

Leo_Ames

Frankly, it was obvious that they didn't have permission as the several explanations in this thread attest to by people in this industry.

An article on Eonline (Entertainment on line?) about the remembrance gestures for the young woman who died, stated that the film crew had permission to film near the tracks but not on the tracks. While not an irrefutable source, it is interesting that the media with close ties to the entertainment industry has acknowledged that the production company needed explicit permission from the CSX to film on the track and that it in their understanding that no such permission was granted.

- Erik

[railfanjohn]

This article was in The State newspaper, Columbia, SC today (6-26-14)

 

"COLUMBIA, SC— A memorial service for a West Columbia camera operator who was killed while filming a movie in south Georgia is scheduled for Wednesday.

The memorial for 27-year-old Sarah Elizabeth Jones is planned for 4 p.m. Wednesday at Ashland United Methodist Church in Columbia, followed by a celebration of her life at 5 p.m. at Saluda River Club in Lexington.

Jones, who lived in Atlanta, was hit by a train Thursday while she and crew members were filming a portion of "Midnight Rider." The film is based on the life of musician Gregg Allman. Several other crew members were injured.

Jones was a graduate of Brookland-Cayce High School and the College of Charleston.

A petition will be forward to Academy Award officials Friday asking that Sarah Elizabeth Jones’ name be added to the Oscars’ “in memoriam” reel during the awards telecast.

Supporters of the online petition reached their goal of getting 24,000 signatures to submit the request to the academy.

The awards will be broadcast Sunday."

 

The above is from the newspaper's Website

The following three paragraphs were in the actual newspaper article, following the College of Charleston sentance.

 

"The Atlanta Journal Constitution has reported the Savannah - based film crew Jones had been working on had discussed safety, a member of the crew said.

"It was explained that trains come by," camera assistant Tony Summerlin said during an interview with the newspaper.  "A couple did come by. ..."

He was working as first camera assistant and Jones was working as second camera assistant."

 

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/02/25/3291609/memorial-service-is-wednesday.html#storylink=cpy

[railfanjohn]

See also the following link:

http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2014/02/slates-for-sarah-campaigning-to-honor-sarah-jones-vampire-diaries-crew-member-during-2014-oscars-in.html

 

The "Slates for Sarah" Facebook page has more than 27,500 likes. People have posted photos of movie slates filled out as a tribute to Sarah Jones, a West Columbia camera operator who was killed while  filming a movie in South Georgia.

 

Slates for Sarah. 13,482 likes. In lieu of flowers, the family is requesting that donations be made to: BC Education Foundation Sarah Jones Scholarship Fund c/o Brookland-Cayce High School 1300 State Street, Cayce, SC 29033 A memorial will be held at 4 p.m.

 

[schlimm]

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