CSX "Why the hate?"

[Andrew Falconer]

If a railfan is under 30 years old why would they care about a Steam Program or Heritage Diesel Locomotives?

[Andrew Falconer]

Perhaps they had a Chessie System or Seaboard System rail line through their town or county and it was removed after the CSX merger. What if that is why they do not like CSX.

[LUKE SOLBERG]

I will be honest, I don't hate CSX, they have some my favorite former Class 1 railroad's in their family, including the Monon, C&O, and the WM. The only down side is how they treat Amtrak and their heritage. I few that they don't care about them at all. I get their a company that is trying to make money but i feel they could at least care a little bit more. 

[ccltrains]

Mookie I agree with you.  And Mike stay focused on the positive.  CSX is a great railroad as are all the other class 1 and lots of the short lines.  To paraphrase a current saying from politics the low information railroad fans (politically voters) usually do not know what they are saying..  Like politics and religion you cannot change someone's mind on these subjects so do not even try.  Walk away from these people and do not lower your self into the gutter by argueing with them.  Life is too short to get ulcers from these people.  Sit back and enjoy CSX.  They are a great railroad but they have a few warts like all the others.  Just try in your small way to remove the warts when possible within the company's rules.

[Deggesty]

CSSHEGEWISCH

Consider that many fans' attitudes toward NS were not too favorable during the period between the end of the steam program and the unveiling of the NS Heritage Fleet.

Perhaps they thought their desire to ride behind steam was more important that the NS bottom line?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Consider that many fans' attitudes toward NS were not too favorable during the period between the end of the steam program and the unveiling of the NS Heritage Fleet.

[tree68]

From what I've seen, CSX has been quite busy on the "Chicago Line," maintenance wise - ties, even new signals.

And they just put in a huge number of ties on the St Lawrence Sub (with the usual associated work), although that's more to get the speeds up than anything else.

[AntonioFP45]

Quick question for the railfans in the New York State area. 

I remember that CSX did have some issues with bad track or road bed, I think, on one of the east-west mainlines as well as some frequently used branch lines.  There were some derailments that made the news. It may have been from Buffalo and westward.  

How are things today? 

[csxns]

The CSX track around here is in great shape,Bostic NC,Charlotte NC,Florence SC, Chester SC,Camden SC,Hamlet NC,Spruce Pines NC,Marion NC, the areas I go train watching and others CSX employees and NS are some of the best.

[AntonioFP45]

Some very well thought out answers here.

From a business perspective CSX is doing what it can to survive.  But even some members of its management team have admitted to making decisions that yielded unwanted results.  But that happens with all businesses.

From a southeastern railfan's point of view: 

The Seaboard Coast Line was not in bad financial shape before the CSX merger.  One thing a number of us miss is the parade of trains we used to get in Florida back in the 70s-early 80s.....and I do mean parade; especially in comparison to today.  The "A-LIne" was still double tracked in many stretches between south Georgia and Tampa, Florida.  Amtrak trains were run by SCL crews that took pride in delivering the trains on time (as best possible).  Crews were generally friendly towards rail fans, sometimes even violating rules and welcoming them inside of locomotive cabs.

After the CSX merger many lines in the Florida and Georgia regions were abandoned and removed.  Understandably this was done since SCL was being taxed for every mile of track it owned and the low or non-existent revenues were hurting the bottom line. 

The impressive locomotive service shop in Tampa was converted to a freight car repair shop and, if IIRC, all major locomotive service in the southeast was transferred to Waycross, Georgia.   Rail fan passenger specials became rare (I participated in the 1981 Chessie 614 run as an NRHS member).  The new management made it clear that non-CSX movements (including Amtrak) were considered to be profit hurting annoyances.

But, imho, a good number of rail fans understand the reasons.....and more..for the above.  So instead of "hating", perhaps a more realistic thought would be that a number of the complainers simply miss the way things were and in reality are simply "lamenting" and don't really wish ill-will against CSX.  Hopefully things will continue to improve for CSX.

[MP173]

Northwest Indiana checking in here.  The CSX mainline running from Chicago to Ohio is a fine piece of railroad in my non railroading eyes and ears.  Other than the pile up of 3 trains near Westville in January 2012, things seem pretty fluid.  The railroad is investing heavily in their ROW and it is 60mph property for intermodals, auto racks, and apple trains with 50mph for everything else.

I monitor operations on the scanner and their trains, particularly those UPS mail trains are run very tightly. 

I am impressed and as an investor have an entry point, if the stock drops.

Ed

[Ulrich]

I wouldn't be too concerned about it. CSX is a fine company with a good reputation. Online posters who complain have too much time on their hands and should probably get a life. CSX is not in the rail fan entertainment business.

[JayPotter]

Those kinds of factors might determine whether or not an investor would purchase CSX stock; however I have difficulty envisioning a railfan deciding to "hate" CSX because of factors such as retained earnings.  But anyone who is interested in CSX's corporate financial information can obtain it very directly by searching through the "investors" section on the company Web site.

[blue streak 1]

Let us hold off an analysis until some poster can give us a complete picture of CSX's financial and operating pictures  vs other RRs.  Such as

1.  operating ratio

2.  Average train speed

3. Dwell time

4. Price earning raatio

5. Retained earnings

6.  capital spending requirements next few years

7.  derailments per 1000 miles

8.  train re crews

9.   Delayed capital sepnding such a Virginia ave tunnel expansion ??

10..  etc.

These type figures would enable a better understanding of CSX's need to concentrate on fixing up their RR ?  Wonder if CSX could even consider reopening Saluda if it was their's ?

[tree68]

CSX has been putting substantial resources into both the "Chicago Line" through central NY, and the St. Lawrence Sub (Conrail's Montreal Secondary).  I would presume the work on the Chicago Line is mostly ongoing maintenance, however the St Lawrence Sub work is directly in response to the new intermodal facility in the Montreal area.  We're seeing a lot of stacks running up and down the line these days.

Speeds on the St Lawrence Sub had dropped to 25 MPH, resulting in the run between Syracuse and Massena becoming a two-crew trip.  The work they're doing will bring the line back to 40, and one conversation I had indicated that they may shoot for 50, although that's probably a ways off.  Apparently the line was, at one time, good for 50 MPH.

[CShaveRR]

I'm glad to hear that the MOW crews are out there.  I do know that CSX practice is to hold off on maintenance until a "blitz" can be done to restore the line, usually routing most of the traffic off said line until the work is accomplished.  I hope the line remains in good repair for a long time to come.

I'm glad to hear accurate information from anyone with firsthand knowledge, and especially appreciated hearing that most CSX employees seem friendly toward railfans.  That wouldn't hold true if they didn't at least enjoy some aspect of their work (I know that when railfans could break through the defenses and come visit me, they were always welcomed!)

[n012944]

CShaveRR

  And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.

I am not sure where you got your information  I spent this morning weaving UPS trains around MOW between Willow Creek In, and Deshler Oh.  There is all of two slow ordesr on the entire subdivision, one of which is in an area that was tamped and just needed tonnage run over it.   

A little bit of my life trivia involving the OP.  Eric hired me as a dispatcher quite a few years ago, and is a great boss to work for.  

[Photog566]

I have seen evidence of this hatred for CSX, primarily among railfan types who have no idea what they are talking about.

In all of my years of shooting train photos, the most annoying thing to put up with is listening to someone go off on CSX, citing most of all, the lack of a "steam program".  It's annoying to listen to, especially when CSX is jokingly referred to as "Crash, Stop, eXplode".  In reference to rail fan forums and the vitriol toward CSX, my son belongs to several, and there is a fair amount of CSX bashing that goes on.  I find it annoying, mainly because very little is based in fact, or if it is based in fact, it is loosely based, and twisted beyond recognition.

The only exposure we get to CSX, is if we catch the through freight on the BNSF, other than that, I don't see much of anything CSX, unless I happen to be down along the IHB.

I guess what bothers me the most, is people finding a nugget of information on the internet, and turning it into a whole story, and then it gets passed around, and the truth being a secondary consideration.

[Norm48327]

It wasn't stupidity. It was greed as in corporate raiding then abandoning.

[Deggesty]

Larry, that was my thought. As I recall, it was known that the powers that were at the Children's Fund thought that no money should be spent on maintaining the property but that all profits should be shared by the stockholders. How stupid can people in finance be? 

[tree68]

With regard to the beancounters running the railroad, one may shudder to consider what might have been if "The Children's Fund" had been able to exert influence on CSX.  The looting of the treasury that many expected would come to pass may well have signalled the death knell of CSX.

[carnej1]

Paul3

"Hate CSX"?  Nah, I save that for Penn Central. 

But I will say that I of the remaining seven Class I's, I think the least of CSX out of any of them.  Why?  Well, I'm in New England, and CSX can't seem to get out of here fast enough to suit them.  Already, they've retrenched from Boston to Worcester.  How much longer before they retreat to Springfield or even Albany?  It's kinda hard to like a railroad that doesn't invest much into your area.

I personally dislike the track condition that I see.  When CSX took over CR, the one story I heard was that when the new CSX track maintenance boss came to Massachusetts, he was heard to say to the former CR (now CSX) employees, "You guys really over-maintain your track around here."  Sad to say, this less than auspicious start has proven itself out with barely passable track in the area.  I once saw a track joint that I could stick my thumb into...and both rail joiner plates were broken at the same spot.  There was nothing holding the rails together other than the spikes in the ties and the bond wire.  And this wasn't just a freight siding, this was a CSX-owned main line that hosts passenger trains.  On NH/PC/CR, this was 30mph track.  On CSX, it's 10mph.  It's kinda hard to like a railroad that puts passengers at risk due to a lack of track maintenance (see also: Amtrak Auto Train & Capital Limited derailments in 2002).

Then there's the customer experience.  I have a friend who works for a large shipper of loads out and he has since the mid-1990's.  He's explained to me that back in the CR days, about once a year, they'd get a car back to them still loaded.  When CSX took over, they were doing it every month.  It's hard to like a railroad that can't manage to consistantly ship loads to their destination.

For the historic preservation perspective, I know the president of a small RR museum that wanted to have a (very) dead switcher loco shipped to them for approx. 50 miles over CSX low-speed mainline track.  But because the engine had plain bearings, it was a no-go.  Years later, the loco gets cuts up because they could not get it shipped.  Meanwhile, in the hobby press, there have been examples of plain bearing-equipped locos and cars that are being shipped over CSX.  It's hard to like a railroad that...well...you get the point.

Now, maybe it's because of where I live and I see the problems with CSX while I don't with NS, UP, BNSF, etc.  But CSX does suffer from comparison to Conrail...at least around here.

I will say that every CSX operating employee I've ever met has been pleasant and friendly.  I've never had a bad experience with any of them.

Paul A. Cutler III

 I'm also a New Englander living in a state not directly served by CSX, but they are the main connection for the regional RR; the Providence & Worcester, that is the (almost) exclusive freight operator here.

You do make a lot of good points although as far as the "retreat" from Beacon Park to Worcester goes;You do realize that this is what the Commonwealth of Massachusetts wants and has been seeking since Conrail days, right?

  I am certain that if Norfolk Southern had succesfully merged with all of Conrail as it tried to prior to splitting CR with CSX, the State would still have forced this change, after all, they own the trackage east of Worcester and can dictate to the railroad....

It's kind of like when many NE railfans were mad at Penn Central for absorbing the New Haven, something the larger railroad was forced to do by the Federal Government.

The saga of the Old Colony RR museum's Alco switcher is one that I agree reflects very badly on CSX.

[Deggesty]

CShaveRR

As a former UP and CNW employee, I watched a CSX predecessor go into the abyss.  I was enough of a C&O fan and supporter to edit the C&O Historical Society's monthly newsletter from 1971 to 1978.  In 1972 I rode the C&O main line on Amtrak, and was impressed with the smoothness of the track, the way trains kept moving on a two-main-track-CTC main line, and looked at it all in glowing terms when compared to the track of my financially-beleagured employer.

1974:  I rode over portions of the same line, hoping to impress my wife with a real railroad.  What I got instead was mainline trackage being ripped out, signals turned sideways, trains waiting for us to clear, us waiting for other trains to clear, and so on. 

Two more years, and another trip on the C&O.  The track was noticeably rougher, and there were points where sudden jolts from the roadbed would be enough to startle one.  This was also the point when the C&O was one of the railroads on which Amtrak's SDP40Fs were developing a bad reputation.  And this is when the chairman was making statements that Chessie had "no deferred maintenance."  Right.

A trip, in the late 1970s, to Raceland Shops.  Refurbished cars looked very bad coming out of there--no preparation whatsoever before slapping a new coat of paint on them--the paint blistered and rusted in no time.  This practice was defended by the people in charge, but I could compare it to the CNW shops in Clinton, Iowa, which were doing things properly.

By the next visit to Raceland in the early 80s, the hopper-production line had been shut down.  Clifton Forge's locomotive shop was gone, and so were heavy repairs in places like Grand Rapids.  The bean-counters were very much in control.  I'm sure the dividends were paid, and the income continued tro set records, but The Mighty had indeed fallen.

We saw it from our vantage point at Proviso, too.  Conrail would bring its trains in with good power, Chessie (mostly B&O for us at this point) would struggle in with its one-unit wonders.  I caught a transfer job from Proviso to Barr Yard about then, and had a harrowing ride over the B&O from the connection along Western Avenue into Barr Yard (I remember when passenger trains plied this route...what a difference!).  Thank Goodness we got the cab ride home!

When the CSX merger came, they insisted that we make them a whole mess of blocks at our yard.  Meanwhile, their one-unit (maybe two, sometimes) wonders would come in with the Proviso block (no separation at all, though a North Platte block would have worked out nicely).  Sweet deal--we were doing a lot of their work for them, with no reciprocation.  We didn't have the tracks in the bowl to keep that up for long, so they eventually got as good as they gave from us.

By the time the Snow era came along, I was pretty much out of the loop except for what I saw in the yard...the occasional loads of coal to places on our line, with straw stuffed into the seams and holes in the hoppers (I'm not kidding!), and some of the most oxidized blue box cars you'd ever want to find.  I was in on monthly meetings as a safety captain.  Now you know that railroaders are always complaining--it goes with the job.  But our guys would come back from Barr Yard with the stories about how CSX employee morale was totally shot--they were cut to bare bones, rough track, rougher bosses, etc., etc.  And you'd have to know the employees I was hearing this from to get the full impact of what they were telling us.  Employees and others would tell us about the downgrading and selling off of main lines that really should have been kept control of, and the circuitous routings that were now needed to get from Point A to Point B.

I think things have improved under the current management.  But they had to have a rude awakening...sun-kinks on their lines that didn't happen to anyone else because their roadbed wasn't done to the same standards, wrecks that were caused by lousy tracks rather than by other things (and they couldn't find employees to blame, like NS or UP could!).  Sites like Trainorders would have pictures of places where a weed-covered right-of-way would be paralleling a first-class main line.  Between CSX and NS, guess which was which.  And I could drive along CSX tracks that carried passenger and coal trains, and count the mudholes by the splashes on the sides of the rails.  Still can sometimes, unfortunately.  And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.

Of course, when one railroad takes over another, people are going to grouse about the changes being made, ignoring other positive aspects.  A railfan likes to focus on the positive things.  And Conrail had turned very positive before it was split up.  Both NS and CSX had some problems incorporating the "ex-Con" into their systems.  But CSX's lasted longer, and the CR portions, such as the Water Level route east of Cleveland, seemed to suffer more under the new leadership.

Eric, enjoy your job!  You will no matter what, if you're a railfan.  But you can be proud of working for a company that's come quite a long way in the past few years.  Don't look back, because that view won't be pretty.  Stay positive!  Most of the bashing is behind you.  And we retirees need enthusiastic folks like you to help give us our pensions!

Carl, from what you wrote, I have the impression that the people in charge of CSX at the beginning thought that CSX was in business to make money, period, and not to make money by providing transportation and thus were totally unaware of what was basically necessary to provide transportation. I also have the impression that if the hedge fund had gained control the situation would have become worse.

[K4sPRR]

ETHOVER

Maybe railfans are like soldiers. (I am former US Army by the way). If they are not whining, something is wrong.

That Eric is so very true, and relating to some of your other inquiries about railfans, if people bought stock on the advise of a railfan the poor man would go broke.  Railfans are fickle, no doubt...but not all fall in that catagory.  A railfan should be a fan of trains and the variety available to them, CSX included, he favors a specific road or topic, but a true railfan simply loves trains and accepts the product brought to him.

Here in Ohio we got caught up in the NS hype with its heritage fleet, my quest was to get all 20 in the wild.  I too am a former "ground pounder"...mission accomplished.  This period also seen some steam activity on NS tracks as well.  During this frenzy I decided to railfan CSX one day and hiked to some vantage points for unique video and photo's.  The CSX crews put on quite a show, I think they were surprised a railfan was trackside.  They probably hadn't seen one in quite a while and all were waiving and blowing the horn for me. 

Critics of CSX of late are those wishful thinkers who want to see a CSX heritage program.  CSX said they are not going to such.  Its their railroad, live with it...but some railfans whine about it and start throwing slanderous remarks about CSX.  I think in the overall scheme of things CSX freight traffic is still ahead of NS.  These critical railfans who desire to work for a railroad, would they decline an employment opportunity with CSX?  I doubt it.

Welcome aboard Eric...."Eleven Bravo...America's best"   

[JayPotter]

I deal somewhat frequently with CSXT; and a number of years ago, some members of a loosely affiliated group of railfans asked me if I could look into a problem that one of them was having with the company.  One of its officials had noticed photos of CSXT equipment that the railfan had posted on the Internet and threatened, on behalf of the company, to take legal action against him.

I happened to know the official who had supposedly threatened the railfan; and that approach didn't seem typical of her.  So I contacted her and asked what had happened.  She was totally puzzled by the situation.  She had never communicated with the railfan, had never even heard of him, didn't know anything about his Internet photos, had never threatened him about anything; and was generally well disposed toward railfans who showed an interest in the company.  I learned, after I passed that information back to the railfans who had contacted me, that the scenario that they had described to me had actually never happened.  The railfan's story about having been threatened was a total fabrication. 

I don't know why the railfan made up his story.  I suspect that he, like Eric, observed the frequency with which railfans criticize CSXT and that he decided that the best way for him to fit into the railfan culture would be to claim that he had been treated badly by CSXT.

After that experience, I ceased being concerned about how railfans view CSXT. 

 

 

 

 

[garr]

Welcome to the Trains forum Eric.

I believe that the matter may be as simple as the fact that the Southern and N&W had well run operations before forming NS. Their properties and finances were the crown jewel of the east and south. When NS was formed, the rationalization of the system was not nearly to the extent that CSX experienced when bringing Chessie and Seaboard together. NS also did not have the management missteps that CSX experienced in the early decade of its existence. About the biggest misstep NS had in this time frame was the failure of acquiring Conrail on their first attempt back in 1985.

In comparison, CSX appeared to be the heartless company operating at the whims of the accounting department while NS had already accomplished these "heartless" decisions back when deButts/Brosnan/Claytor ran Southern and Saunders/Fishwick/R.Claytor ran N&W.

I believe BaltACD and Carl also hit on some good points. The best way to sum it up may be that CSX is a little low on the Good Will side of the equation. Personally I have no issues with CSX. I know employees in both operating and management postions and all seem to be happy with the company. I believe the railroad has or is a long ways down the road to getting its act together.

From the railfan perspective, it is like the cool uncle and boring uncle scenario when comparing NS to CSX. For example, the Office Car train for CSX has F40PHs(I personally like these) while NS has classic F units in SR tuxedo paint(I personally like these too), however which OCS train would fans chase if both were out running the same day? Another example is the Heritage Locomotives for NS while CSX busies itself putting something as forward looking as keyboard boxcars around the logos on its locomotives. True, if CSX came out with a heritage locomotive program, they would be called copycats, yet NS basically copied UP but found a way to effectively trump the UP program--I have yet to hear a bad comment about the NS program.

UP, in the past, seemed to be regarded much the same as CSX is today. UP even had an on going steam program, yet still  seemed to have a lesser reputation than ATSF or BN. These feelings toward UP seem to have abated over the years, the same will  be the case for CSX.

Jay

[CShaveRR]

As a former UP and CNW employee, I watched a CSX predecessor go into the abyss.  I was enough of a C&O fan and supporter to edit the C&O Historical Society's monthly newsletter from 1971 to 1978.  In 1972 I rode the C&O main line on Amtrak, and was impressed with the smoothness of the track, the way trains kept moving on a two-main-track-CTC main line, and looked at it all in glowing terms when compared to the track of my financially-beleagured employer.

1974:  I rode over portions of the same line, hoping to impress my wife with a real railroad.  What I got instead was mainline trackage being ripped out, signals turned sideways, trains waiting for us to clear, us waiting for other trains to clear, and so on. 

Two more years, and another trip on the C&O.  The track was noticeably rougher, and there were points where sudden jolts from the roadbed would be enough to startle one.  This was also the point when the C&O was one of the railroads on which Amtrak's SDP40Fs were developing a bad reputation.  And this is when the chairman was making statements that Chessie had "no deferred maintenance."  Right.

A trip, in the late 1970s, to Raceland Shops.  Refurbished cars looked very bad coming out of there--no preparation whatsoever before slapping a new coat of paint on them--the paint blistered and rusted in no time.  This practice was defended by the people in charge, but I could compare it to the CNW shops in Clinton, Iowa, which were doing things properly.

By the next visit to Raceland in the early 80s, the hopper-production line had been shut down.  Clifton Forge's locomotive shop was gone, and so were heavy repairs in places like Grand Rapids.  The bean-counters were very much in control.  I'm sure the dividends were paid, and the income continued tro set records, but The Mighty had indeed fallen.

We saw it from our vantage point at Proviso, too.  Conrail would bring its trains in with good power, Chessie (mostly B&O for us at this point) would struggle in with its one-unit wonders.  I caught a transfer job from Proviso to Barr Yard about then, and had a harrowing ride over the B&O from the connection along Western Avenue into Barr Yard (I remember when passenger trains plied this route...what a difference!).  Thank Goodness we got the cab ride home!

When the CSX merger came, they insisted that we make them a whole mess of blocks at our yard.  Meanwhile, their one-unit (maybe two, sometimes) wonders would come in with the Proviso block (no separation at all, though a North Platte block would have worked out nicely).  Sweet deal--we were doing a lot of their work for them, with no reciprocation.  We didn't have the tracks in the bowl to keep that up for long, so they eventually got as good as they gave from us.

By the time the Snow era came along, I was pretty much out of the loop except for what I saw in the yard...the occasional loads of coal to places on our line, with straw stuffed into the seams and holes in the hoppers (I'm not kidding!), and some of the most oxidized blue box cars you'd ever want to find.  I was in on monthly meetings as a safety captain.  Now you know that railroaders are always complaining--it goes with the job.  But our guys would come back from Barr Yard with the stories about how CSX employee morale was totally shot--they were cut to bare bones, rough track, rougher bosses, etc., etc.  And you'd have to know the employees I was hearing this from to get the full impact of what they were telling us.  Employees and others would tell us about the downgrading and selling off of main lines that really should have been kept control of, and the circuitous routings that were now needed to get from Point A to Point B.

I think things have improved under the current management.  But they had to have a rude awakening...sun-kinks on their lines that didn't happen to anyone else because their roadbed wasn't done to the same standards, wrecks that were caused by lousy tracks rather than by other things (and they couldn't find employees to blame, like NS or UP could!).  Sites like Trainorders would have pictures of places where a weed-covered right-of-way would be paralleling a first-class main line.  Between CSX and NS, guess which was which.  And I could drive along CSX tracks that carried passenger and coal trains, and count the mudholes by the splashes on the sides of the rails.  Still can sometimes, unfortunately.  And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.

Of course, when one railroad takes over another, people are going to grouse about the changes being made, ignoring other positive aspects.  A railfan likes to focus on the positive things.  And Conrail had turned very positive before it was split up.  Both NS and CSX had some problems incorporating the "ex-Con" into their systems.  But CSX's lasted longer, and the CR portions, such as the Water Level route east of Cleveland, seemed to suffer more under the new leadership.

Eric, enjoy your job!  You will no matter what, if you're a railfan.  But you can be proud of working for a company that's come quite a long way in the past few years.  Don't look back, because that view won't be pretty.  Stay positive!  Most of the bashing is behind you.  And we retirees need enthusiastic folks like you to help give us our pensions!

[Paul3]

"Hate CSX"?  Nah, I save that for Penn Central. 

But I will say that I of the remaining seven Class I's, I think the least of CSX out of any of them.  Why?  Well, I'm in New England, and CSX can't seem to get out of here fast enough to suit them.  Already, they've retrenched from Boston to Worcester.  How much longer before they retreat to Springfield or even Albany?  It's kinda hard to like a railroad that doesn't invest much into your area.

I personally dislike the track condition that I see.  When CSX took over CR, the one story I heard was that when the new CSX track maintenance boss came to Massachusetts, he was heard to say to the former CR (now CSX) employees, "You guys really over-maintain your track around here."  Sad to say, this less than auspicious start has proven itself out with barely passable track in the area.  I once saw a track joint that I could stick my thumb into...and both rail joiner plates were broken at the same spot.  There was nothing holding the rails together other than the spikes in the ties and the bond wire.  And this wasn't just a freight siding, this was a CSX-owned main line that hosts passenger trains.  On NH/PC/CR, this was 30mph track.  On CSX, it's 10mph.  It's kinda hard to like a railroad that puts passengers at risk due to a lack of track maintenance (see also: Amtrak Auto Train & Capital Limited derailments in 2002).

Then there's the customer experience.  I have a friend who works for a large shipper of loads out and he has since the mid-1990's.  He's explained to me that back in the CR days, about once a year, they'd get a car back to them still loaded.  When CSX took over, they were doing it every month.  It's hard to like a railroad that can't manage to consistantly ship loads to their destination.

For the historic preservation perspective, I know the president of a small RR museum that wanted to have a (very) dead switcher loco shipped to them for approx. 50 miles over CSX low-speed mainline track.  But because the engine had plain bearings, it was a no-go.  Years later, the loco gets cuts up because they could not get it shipped.  Meanwhile, in the hobby press, there have been examples of plain bearing-equipped locos and cars that are being shipped over CSX.  It's hard to like a railroad that...well...you get the point.

Now, maybe it's because of where I live and I see the problems with CSX while I don't with NS, UP, BNSF, etc.  But CSX does suffer from comparison to Conrail...at least around here.

I will say that every CSX operating employee I've ever met has been pleasant and friendly.  I've never had a bad experience with any of them.

Paul A. Cutler III

[Firelock76]

Welcome to the Forum Eric!

I'll keep this brief.  Hate for CSX?  Well, it probably comes from some (certainly not all)  railfans who have the misguided notion that railroads exist for their entertainment, not to move cargo and make money. 

If a 'road decides to have a steam program, a heritage program, or any other kind of "whoop-de-doo"  program railfans have to realize it's for a perceived benefit to the company, not to keep the "foamer"  with the "Fallen Flag"  patches all over his camera vest happy.  I realize that and I submit most posters on the Forum realize that as well.

If CSX doesn't do any of these things, well it's their 'road and their choice.  End of story.  I can live with it.

By the way, when I've got some dead time on the job I like to park by the CSX tracks here in Richmond and watch the parade.  It's the best show in town, and it's free!  And it's not all "blue and yellow", you never know just what you might see!

By the way, the last few issues of "RailPace" I've seen didn't have any articles ripping CSX.  They WERE ripping the begeezus  out of New Jersey Transit and their handling of Superstorm Sandy, and rightfully so!   Maybe I've missed some issues.

[BaltACD]

Today's Class 1 railroads are very large organizations, organizations that are entwined in many highly technical and involved areas of knowledge and responsibilities.  Operation of the physical plant to satisfy customer expectations in manner that gets the most efficiency out of equipment, motive power and crews.  Maintenance of the physical plant so as to keep the plant well maintained and not seriously disrupt the service to customers and at the same time doing it with the most efficiency from the equipment, materials and manpower.  Maintenance of the motive power and rolling equipment to keep the equipment and power in service and on the road hauling customers products with minimal breakdowns and doing so efficiently with the minimum of facilities and manpower.  The business of 'selling' service to customers - devising services, schedules and pricing that solves the customers transportation 'problem'.  The understanding that not all business that exists on line has profit potential for the company.  Pricing the services that are provided to customers so that the carrier can make suitable profits and the customer feels he is paying a fair price for the services received.  These are that aspects of the business everyone thinks they know more about than those that are actually involved in doing these jobs.

Beyond what I have just described we get into the worlds of finance, business forecasting and strategic planning.  Planning for what is anticipated to happen tomorrow and the day after tomorrow.  Plant improvements take time, money and materials to implement - trying to make the same improvements as everyone else when everyone else is making the improvement escalates the cost of the improvements as everyone is bidding against each other for a relatively finite amount of materials.  Financing ongoing business operations and funding capital investments in plant and equipment - figuring out if it is more advantageous to own the improvement outright or to get involved in a lease arrangement - how to secure the necessary funds on the worlds financial markets.  Tangentally, the carriers have massive real estate holdings to profitably manage - land the plant occupies today - land that the plant occupied in the past - facilities that are in use - facilities that are past use - surplus land to be sold for customer development - land to be aquired for new facility construction - easements for utilites that cross the property - leases of company property to individuals and collecting the lease payments.

The reality of railroad management is that there are few if any individuals that excell in all the aspects of the company that all contribute to funneling revenues to the bottom line.  Getting a individual that can channel the best from all those areas, and more, is what is required to keep Class 1 carriers being profitable today and puting themselves in position to continue performing their services into the future.