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CSX "Why the hate?"

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, January 29, 2015 7:26 AM

Murphy Siding

 

 
Mookie

And they told me my 2 years of Latin would never be used!  Ha!  I understood all your "secret railroad terms".... 

Mischief

 

 

 

  Well La-De-Da.  The only latin I ever came in contact with was in the Roadrunner cartoons, and I understood what they were saying! Whistling

 

 

Meep Meep is not Latin...

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 7:43 PM

Electroliner 1935

I remember riding Amtrack out of Chicago #50 and talking with the crew enroute to Cincinnati and they were talking about the NatziSouthern Dispatchers so I am not so sure that CSX was the only road distained. 

 

I am puzzled by the reference to "NatziSouthern Dispatchers." Are they dispatchers working for the former Southern Railroad? If so, they would be encountered only between Orange and Alexandria--a long way from Chicago. Were these operating crew or on-board service crew?

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Posted by dakotafred on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 6:26 PM

blue streak 1

Maybe it is not hate but complete indifference?  CSX appears to be just a plain vanilla type corporation.  All the other class 1s have something that tweaks our interest.

Streak, I don't think we'd have been so picky, oh, 45 years ago, about Penn Central time, when a plain-vanilla railroad that kept its nose clean and made a 10-percent return would have looked pretty good.

And of course CSX has plenty of history, beginning with our first national road, the good old B&O. "George Washington's Railroad" was no slouch, either. Or the great passenger roads, Seaboard and Coast Line, that probably could have gotten along without Amtrak.

Furthermore, CSX is still bargain-priced for someone with a dollar to invest in railroads.

Lots to like about CSX. In addition: I live a long way from their tracks now, but I'll bet their trains would draw me -- a dumb old railfan -- to trackside as quickly as those I see up here.

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Posted by Wizlish on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 5:59 PM

Murphy Siding
The only latin I ever came in contact with was in the Roadrunner cartoons, and I understood what they were saying!

 

Like the undubbed Swedish in the Mel Brooks parody 'Die Duva'?

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 5:29 PM

I remember riding Amtrack out of Chicago #50 and talking with the crew enroute to Cincinnati and they were talking about the NatziSouthern Dispatchers so I am not so sure that CSX was the only road distained. 

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 2:59 PM

Most of the vitriol I've seen directed toward CSX doesn't hold a candle to that directed toward UP/the Yellow Peril/the Borg back when they were looking to license use of their trademark colors and lettering.  

Methinks that most such feelings are often derived either from the fact that a given railroad "ate up" someone's favorite railroad, or represents a longtime rival (a la NYC/PRR).  

Of course, we can't discount instances where someone was wronged by a given railroad, either actually (as in an employee or customer) or within the imagination of the hater (prevented from going on the property for that "special picture."

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 2:55 PM

blue streak 1

plain vanilla type corporation

Right. It takes years to accept CSX as a legitimate name for a railroad.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 2:36 PM

Maybe it is not hate but complete indifference?  CSX appears to be just a plain vanilla type corporation.  All the other class 1s have something that tweaks our interest.  NS - 611, rebuilt diesels and their operation philosophy.  BNSF the southern and northern transcons among other items. Friends of BNSF.  UP and its steam program.    CN and its intent to squeeze out every  dime.  CP - Hunter.  KCS  their ability to out think the other class 1s.

 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 1:35 PM

Mookie

And they told me my 2 years of Latin would never be used!  Ha!  I understood all your "secret railroad terms".... 

Mischief

 

  Well La-De-Da.  The only latin I ever came in contact with was in the Roadrunner cartoons, and I understood what they were saying! Whistling

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 12:53 PM

And they told me my 2 years of Latin would never be used!  Ha!  I understood all your "secret railroad terms".... 

Mischief

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 6:27 AM

Hotellus-maximus Stayus - don't forget to engage the Trip Optimizer when operating a CSX train...reportedly saves fuel.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 5:47 AM

mudchicken

 

 
 
 
 

 

Carefull there Mooks.The Zugster is evolving from ground monkey (switchemthrowus Terrasapiens) into yard hog (Canus Throttlus - Yardus). Pretty soon he'll be attracted to the locomotive cab mirror and similar such things.

 

 

Hah. They are trying to make me a road hog (hotellus-maximus stayus). Just plotting out my best way to take advantage of this ptc stuff coming. Has to be a way to make a career with it.  This running study ain't me. Too much sitting.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 9:03 PM

wanswheel
Excerpt from article “Vanderbilt,” Chicago Tribune, October 9, 1882, page 8
“Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?”
“Accommodation of the public! Nonsense, and they do not pay either. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them, and, of course, as long as they run them, we must do the same.”
 

Interesting. In the article I cited, it explains that the Tribune editor altered the original "public be damned" comment (as the reporter Sherman heard and wrote copy) to a  sanitized "...public!  Nonsense."  Other Chicago newspapers published reporter Sherman's original text verbatim.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 7:29 PM
Excerpt from article “Vanderbilt,” Chicago Tribune, October 9, 1882, page 8
“Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?”
“Accommodation of the public! Nonsense, and they do not pay either. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them, and, of course, as long as they run them, we must do the same.”
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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 6:57 PM

 

Mookie
 
zugmann
 
Mookie
Almost sound like humans, don't they....

 

 

Don't know. Not familiar with the species.

 

 

 

I think you might be on to something....

 

 

Carefull there Mooks.The Zugster is evolving from ground monkey (switchemthrowus Terrasapiens) into yard hog (Canus Throttlus - Yardus). Pretty soon he'll be attracted to the locomotive cab mirror and similar such things.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:56 PM

wanswheel

NY Times declined to print the word Vanderbilt said The public be.

 

Portrays the cutthroat nature of the 'titans' of the day.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:43 PM

NY Times declined to print the word Vanderbilt said The public be.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 5:32 PM

schlimm
 
samfp1943
here is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !

 

Agreed!   Though your use of the term "zombie" seemed pejorative or at least disapproving.

 

You are right about the choice of words I made..maybe 'Zombie' could be considered a pejorative term. In the past, it did have that only that context. 

It seems that in this day the usage (of the term Zombie)  has come to a more common terminology to indicate a thing; rather than a strictly,(in) human(?) meaning.  I might liken it to the old TIMEX watch ads "...Takes a likin' and keeps on tickin'... "  Or maybe, usage of an item that would last far beyond its normal,exptation of a 'lifetime' .  

 

 


 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:48 PM

samfp1943
here is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !

Agreed!   Though your use of the term "zombie" seemed pejorative or at least disapproving.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:25 PM

Professor:  Scchlimm said: "...And I did not revive the thread. That was someone named Soleberg, and many comments followed.  And what is wrong with an old thread?.."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !

 

 


 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 12:51 PM

Wizlish

 

 
schlimm
Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay.

 

 

That would be a wiki quote, wouldn't it?  ISTR Vanderbilt's quote being something like "the public interest be damned" ... which puts a somewhat different light on what he was actually saying.   (He was responding to the reporter's invocation of 'the public interest' as if it were what we moderns might call a 'stakeholder' in Vanderbilt's operating decisions.)

I'm certain there is at least one person here who can find the actual text of the interview and provide it for us...

 

 There, there, a full accounting.  And the original account by reporter Sherman was:  "The public be damned."  His original article in the Chicago Tribune in 1882 doesn't turn up in an archive search. Your version with the addition of "interest" came later or refers to others.  Sorry if it doesn't fit in with your ideological bias.   And I did not revive the thread. That was someone named Soleberg, and many comments followed.  And what is wrong with an old thread?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1018&dat=19361106&id=DbckAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zA8GAAAAIBAJ&pg=1501,734632

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 12:01 PM

Talk about a " Zombie Topic" [ one that will not go away, or keeps rising like Lazarus(?)].

Schlimm wrote:[snipped] "... "In 1883, reporter John Dickinson Sherman questioned him about why he ran the limited express train: "Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?" Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them and, of course, as long as they run them we must do the same."   (from Wiki) [snip]"

This Thread has a long running history in this FORUM from July of 2013 to current.  My curiosity was arroused, so I went back to read it from the Original Post.

"CSX "Why the hate?"
Posted by ETHOVER on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:00 AM      

He wrote: "...My first posting to the Trains forum, so be patient with me.First off, let me be clear, I work for CSX. I've been employed by CSX for 10+ years now in both union and managment positions. I currently work as a mid-level manager in operations. Overall, I've worked in the rail industry for almost 20 years now. Previously for the Soo Line/CP, and then for Amtrak. (I will save my comments on CSX for the end.) I am a lifelong railfan and modeler.

It seems to me that CSX is consistantly bashed on railfan blogs and literature. Some of it is deserved, I am sure. But some of it seems to be rooted in a deep hate for this company. I am not sure why. I have seen dislike for a rail company many times before. UP and Rail America come to mind. But the disdane seems light compared to information published on CSX..." [A long and interesting post byETHover, if one is interested check it out]

As I went back to read in  the Thread, mainly looking for comments by BaltACD [for apparent reasons].  I think that his comments referencing the Industry rationalizations (and thus CSX's) created a lot of animus within the then current and 'former' employees whose lives and jobs were put into turmoil by the 'rationalizations' that took place, as an industry re-trenched from financial and plant issues, of a industry that had been told it had 'Overbuilt' during the good times of the 1900's, and into the 1960's.  Branches were cut out, main lines 'singled' out; thus jobs as well. Territories were lengthened Division and Crew Reassigned to different areas.  Nothing will create animus in a community like the 'death' of a major employer, and the following of jobs being shuffled about.   Unions saw their membership pools deminished, and trade groups merged to create new pools of members, and political power bases.  Management changed as well, Lifelong railroaders retired, new managers with no' railroad experience'  were brought in to solve the chaffing issues of the Enter industry; shrinking OR's, and Stock/Bond prices loosing their stability.

Enter the John Snow administration into the picture (1970 v.p. for government at C&O RR) until the creation of CSXT in 1980 when he moved to that new entity. IT( the division of Conrail) seemed to be an industry 'given' that 'Wick' Moorman bested John Snow in the 'battle to divide up the assets of Conrail in 1997.  Link @ http://articles.dailypress.com/1997-04-09/business/9704090129_1_norfolk-southern-two-transcontinental-giants-conrail                                                       FTA: "...`I think it's a terrific outcome,'' said CSX Chairman John Snow. ``It is about as close to the ideal as you could get.'' Snow said that despite the high purchase price and the need to spend more than $200 million on capital improvements, CSX expects a positive cash flow within two years... CSX is now larger than NS, but the 58-42 split would leave them almost equal in size..."

If one 'googles' " Hate CSX Railroad"  I got 84,000 responses. Mr. ET Hover mentioned dropping his membership in 'Trainorders.com' because of the 'hate/vituperation' being present in posts there.  There is no-one more angered than a 'spurned' employee or lover.  The Internet is a way to get back at the source of ones real or imagined injustices.   It seems that CSXT is a big target for anonymous attacks.

I think that some of the posters here have pretty well laid the animus towards CSXT to rest. 

 In particular, a comment by Jay Potter would seem to sum up the situation:    Posted by JayPotter on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:01 AM  [snipped] "...I happened to know the official who had supposedly threatened the railfan; and that approach didn't seem typical of her.  So I contacted her and asked what had happened.  She was totally puzzled by the situation.  She had never communicated with the railfan, had never even heard of him, didn't know anything about his Internet photos, had never threatened him about anything; and was generally well disposed toward railfans who showed an interest in the company.  I learned, after I passed that information back to the railfans who had contacted me, that the scenario that they had described to me had actually never happened.  The railfan's story about having been threatened was a total fabrication... ..After that experience, I ceased being concerned about how railfans view CSXT.."

[EDIT to add content] There is a concurrent running Thread on the Steam& preservation Forum that takes up CSXT's policies about having Steam powered 'fan' trains on their poroperty @   http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/224990.aspx

It starts as a diatribe against CSXT and their policy of 'no steam' but takes a positive twist  about the end of 2013 when CSXT starts a cycle of TV Commercials.       Then (Firelock 72) Wayne  makes a post referencing the CSX's contribution to the 'Cosmetic' repairs on an ACL Steam Locomotive,#1504, a Pacific type on static display in Jacksonville, Fla.  and his request to send a "Thank You' on CSXT's website for their involvement in that project...Certailnly, a positive development !  Bow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Posted by Wizlish on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 11:52 AM

schlimm
Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay.

 

That would be a wiki quote, wouldn't it?  ISTR Vanderbilt's quote being something like "the public interest be damned" ... which puts a somewhat different light on what he was actually saying.   (He was responding to the reporter's invocation of 'the public interest' as if it were what we moderns might call a 'stakeholder' in Vanderbilt's operating decisions.)

I'm certain there is at least one person here who can find the actual text of the interview and provide it for us...

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 9:31 AM

NKP guy
As a result, they are, except for the annoyance they often cause by engineers laying on the horn for the crossing.  Why, in the middle of the night, they seem to d-r-a-g   o-u-t the horn sounding for what seems like minutes, waking up half the city needlessly, I can't imagine. Still, we like CSX because of what it reminds us.  But would it kill them to try to be a better corporate citizen?  That being said, it's the main railroad game in town and I, like any railfan, wish it a long life and every success.

It ain't just the CSX!!   But that "The public be damned" attitude goes far back to Wm. Vanderbilt:


"In 1883, reporter John Dickinson Sherman questioned him about why he ran the limited express train: "Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?" Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them and, of course, as long as they run them we must do the same." "  (from Wiki)

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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 8:59 AM

We have the old B&O main line running through our town here in northeast Ohio (CSX these days) and no one, especially me, "hates" the railroad.  In fact, our local newspaper not infrequently refers to the city as a "former railroad town."  We're quite proud of our 3 railroads, actually.  But all that being said, CSX doesn't seem to like us very much.  

First, they have the lowest corporate visibility.  They tore down their old freight station after decades of neglect, even though it was located on a main street.  The old passenger station is now similarly neglected; a fire happened inside this past year because it's not secured well at all.

Second, our Main Street bridge over the river and CSX tracks was out of service for many months longer than necessary because the construction company and the fiber optics people couldn't get CSX to coordinate with them or communicate effectively.  Then when the bridge finally reopened CSX insisted on installing the ugliest wire screen on the bridge sidewalk going over their tracks.  The city protested this defacement of our landmark bridge, but to no avail.  Now we are stuck with something ugly no one wanted (and will be ineffective).

Third, when CSX lowered their tracks under that bridge a year or two ago they took up many rotted ties and left them on the river bank where many promptly slid into our newly cleaned-up and now healthy river.  Needless to say, the creosote on these ties is now nicely being absorbed by the river and the fish.  When, at my urging, the city law department contacted CSX about this situation the railroad simply stonewalled the city, not even deigning to reply.

Fourth, it's well known in town that any attempt to contact CSX on any topic will be an exercise in frustration.  Talk about an absentee landlord!  

CSX never seems to buy any local advertising (well, why would they?) or support anything of interest to our area and its railroad heritage like Operation Lifesaver, or gosh forbid, a steam excursion.  They seem to go out of their way to fly under the radar, not be noticed, and be forgotten.  

As a result, they are, except for the annoyance they often cause by engineers laying on the horn for the crossing.  Why, in the middle of the night, they seem to d-r-a-g   o-u-t the horn sounding for what seems like minutes, waking up half the city needlessly, I can't imagine.

Still, we like CSX because of what it reminds us.  But would it kill them to try to be a better corporate citizen?  That being said, it's the main railroad game in town and I, like any railfan, wish it a long life and every success.

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 6:17 AM

zugmann
 
Mookie
Almost sound like humans, don't they....

 

 

Don't know. Not familiar with the species.

 

I think you might be on to something....

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 6:16 AM

My only concerns with CSX is how it runs Amtrak trains.Initially after the Conrail took over the train on time performance as well as ride quality deteriorate. Once on ns both improved.  CSX does a much better job with on time performance with the silver service and auto train,  but the ride is still iffy. On overnite trains I book a sleeper, so the ride quality is important. In my eyes and my only dealings with CSX in a indirect  manner is they need to be  a better host.  With that said I am sure Amtrak as well shares in the blame for its trains issues, but the issue of road bed is CSX.

I would like to see steam operating on CSX but this is a CSX issue and I respect thier decisions.

One only has to think back to the 614 excursions,  running at track speed to bring back fond memories of main line  steamers running like they did.

I hope CSX continues to perform well financially an wish your continued success.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, January 26, 2015 11:17 PM

Mookie
Almost sound like humans, don't they....

 

Don't know. Not familiar with the species.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, January 26, 2015 9:12 PM

zugmann

Railfans are silly creatures.

 

One would go mad trying to figure them out.

 

Almost sound like humans, don't they....

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, January 26, 2015 7:51 PM

Railfans are silly creatures.

 

One would go mad trying to figure them out.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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