My first posting to the Trains forum, so be patient with me.
First off, let me be clear, I work for CSX. I've been employed by CSX for 10+ years now in both union and managment positions. I currently work as a mid-level manager in operations. Overall, I've worked in the rail industry for almost 20 years now. Previously for the Soo Line/CP, and then for Amtrak. (I will save my comments on CSX for the end.) I am a lifelong railfan and modeler.
It seems to me that CSX is consistantly bashed on railfan blogs and literature. Some of it is deserved, I am sure. But some of it seems to be rooted in a deep hate for this company. I am not sure why. I have seen dislike for a rail company many times before. UP and Rail America come to mind. But the disdane seems light compared to information published on CSX.
BNSF, NS, and other railroads seem to get positive press in most postings and magazines. The NS Heritage program helps, I suppose. BNSF seems to do nothing wrong. CP/CN/KCS seem to go either way. And don't get me started on the Florida East Coast or Amtrak!
I have recently given up my subscription to the railfan blog called Trainorders.com. I am most likely letting go of RailPace and The Railroad Photographer over thier CSX bashing. I am not going to financially support an orginization that uses thier pulpit for incorrect information and hate. (RailPace is really bad on this front). Trains, Railroads Illustrated, and Railfan and Railroad seem to be balanced on thier observations. There is a website, which I will not mention, that is devoted to bashing CSX. Of course a majority is current and former employees. (Which begs the question; if you hate your job or company, why not find other work?) It's laughable to read what some will post and blame CSX for. (What!? You signed up for a 24/7 job and was not allowed to mark off for the weekend?)
What really confuses me, is how railfans will bash CSX, and then still take rail trips to photograph thier trains. Take the ForidaRailroading Yahoo group for instance. Most times, I will see postings that bash CSX, then a little later the same person is going to Folkston, GA to view CSX trains! I am a member of many Yahoo lists, covering railroads around North America, and the lists that cover parts of CSX seems to take a negative approach to postings. Maybe railfans are like soldiers. (I am former US Army by the way). If they are not whining, something is wrong.
I realize CSX does not have a heritage program. Does not participate is most railfan events. Is alleged to have an anti steam policy. And has, up until 2004, had a revolving door of senior leaders. I am sure someone will post that CSX is run by bean counters and not railroaders.
Some questions I ask myself.
Is it the name?
Is it the lack of railfan activity?
Is it the paint scheme?
Is it the prior management and the revolving door of leaders up until the Micheal Ward era?
Does having a heritage paint or steam program make good sense in the eyes of a customer or share holder?
Will a customer ship more product with a company viewed as favorable by railfans?
Will an investor buy more CSX stock if they are viewed as favorable by railfans?
Would the money spent on painting locomotives be better spent on fixing infrastructure and reducing debt?
Are the other railroad companies better at "spinning" thier story?
Why the hate?
Again, I know I am biased. Maybe too sensitive as well. Now, for my thoughts.
CSX has been very good to me and my family. Aside from the fact that I am a railfan, the pay and benefits are decent. Yes, I work weird hours and miss events. But that is what I signed up for. Has there been tough days, yes. Has CSX made some bone-headed decisions, yes. But overall, CSX is a great company to work for and I have had many more good days than bad. I work with some terrific people, both management and craft employees. I have had more fun and laughs with people at CSX than my previous employers. Overall, I am pleased so far with my job at CSX. I will leave my thoughts on the other railroads to myself.
Eric Hendrickson
My opinion is, that hatred is a core part of our make up. With the government intervening on so many fronts telling us what we are no longer "allowed" to hate, people determined to flaunt their hatred are ever more challenged to find acceptable channels. Corporations will seldom squander their time and resources to defend themselves on such a picayune level, making them an ideal target.
I don't think that CSX is the sole target, even in the railroad industry. I hear lots of negative stuff about NS's iron fisted management style, not to mention Amtrak's inability to be all things to all people.
Perhaps you're just overly sensitive to criticisms of CSX because you have your heart there?
I own stock in CSX. In addition, I have CSX bonds. I am hanging on to both because I have a favorable view of CSX. My view is formed largely by reading its financial statements as well as general news about the company.
I worked for the largest electric utility in the United States (generation) before retiring. It was a great company; I had a great career. A few employees, as well as a small minority of our customers, did not like the company. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the minority shouted their disdain for the company, which got attention, and people generalized it as widespread dislike of the organization when in fact it was just a very vocal minority of disgruntled people.
Of course, I don't know the answer to this attitude (if it truly exists), but I can relate it to the bashing the post office constantly continues to get. Forty years ago or so, it was practically impossible to send a package by mail without it arriving all smashed up. They have really cleaned up their act, and I am impressed with their service lately. However, they still continue to be bashed by many, though that is probably in part due to the anti-government attitude that many people have.
Again, I don't know, but if I recall correctly, about the time of the Conrail split, CSX was having problems with derailments and other problems probably in part due to lack of maintenance. I think it was run by non-railroad people for whom maintenance was an expensive nuisance. Once a little bad press gets out, it takes a long time to change people's impression. This is my impression; others may correct me.
There was an article in TRAINS in the last year or two about the management changes at CSX. (Changes for the better.)
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
UP has been referred to here as the "Yellow Peril" and "the borg."
Just like with anything else, there are those that love, and those that hate. Chevy/Ford/Dodge, anyone?
I will say that CSX is the only RR I know of that apparently has a "hate" site...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Eric - Welcome to the Forum.
I could go ad nauseum on this subject, since people are a main interest of mine. But much to the relief of the posters, I will just say that if you like your job, then ignore the really biased negatives and go for the positive. You can help your company by being positive and pointedly staying away from nay-sayers as much as possible.
Whining didn't start with your generation - trust me.
They could paint the engines orange and someone will whine - that's me. But I will defend BNSF if it is unfairly criticized.
Just do your job and a little beyond if you can. Enjoy your job until you don't or can't. Then do something else that you truly enjoy. Make your small space the happiest and best you can. And just between the two of us and no one else - I am pleased there are still people out there that do really like their job! You can make a difference for your company.
I will leave the stated questions for the rest of the posters.
Mookie
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I live in south central Pennsylvania and everytime I run into a CSX employee, whether on a train or on the ground they are very friendly and courteous. I have nothing bad to say about CSX excpt that they will not fix their rail in New Oxford which is in bad shape. But that is another matter. All in all I will not bash CSX.
Ira
IMHO in the 1980s was especially hard on CSX and its predecessors. Revenue was down more and the operating ratio went up more than other RRs. In an a attempt to not scare off investors and maintain a semblance of equality with other RRs they may have not kept enough retained earnings to maintain their physical plant and eequipment. Then came the aborted take over attempt to soak it even more.
All that has made CSX a poor comparsion to the other class 1s with their better physical plant. I agree that employees now are on the whole a friendlier bunch than some other RRs. Having moved 30 years ago to CSX the attitude of employees has greatly improved. In the 1980s they were desperate to see more effort into locos and ROW. They still are not as much but CSX is still trying to catch up. I am aware of projects around here that are awaiting funds. Until about 1995 we had 112 # circa 1912 welded rail here that was rapidly failing. Once they can get these very expensive upgrades completed and spend more or other upgrades maybe they can be equal. The CR split up certainly caused a big infrastructure upgrade. The major intermodal and oil train upgrades has caused CSX to divert funds that could have been well spent elsewhere.
Remember when the SP portion of the UP merger was melting down they hate for UP came from all directions
The CSX 'plant rationalization' program during the 80's & 90's was rather agrssive and in addition to pruing unproductive branch lines also eliminated a number of Main Lines. The rationalization affected a great number of now former employees; former employees don't speak of their former employer in glowing terms. Couple that to Senior Managements pessimissim for the continued viability of railroads as profitable transportation mode and a lot of bad attitudes were generated.
Making John Snow Chairman brought the bottom of the barrel in view - Snow was a politician at heart, not a railroader, not a businessman, not a financier - everything done was done for political effect, not for the continued benefit of the railroad as a ongoing business concern. When Snow was made Secretary of the Treasury by President Bush and extracted $70 Million from CSX as a 'severance package' employee disgust ramped up exponentially.
Michael Ward had a large disfunctional organization on his plate when he became Chairman, succeeding John Snow. From my viewpoint he has been doing an admirable job of fixing deferred maintenance and building the physical plant to meet the growing transportation needs for a growing US population - all the while increasing shareholder value. I have seen more plant improvements in the past 10 years than I saw in the 38 years of my experience that preceeded them.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
First welcome to the forums. Have been watching B&O,chessie and CSX all the time. We know a lot of CSX traincrews and Mow people. We like how CSX is a parade of other railroads power at times. I don't want to make this topic go down the negative road so I won't.We will keep watching.(you can message me if you want).
stay safe
Joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
The criticisms or even "hate" you mention directed at CSX should not matter so much to you, as long as you feel good about the way the company operates, in general, and the way it treats you, in particular are positive from your perspective.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BaltACD Michael Ward had a large disfunctional organization on his plate when he became Chairman, succeeding John Snow. From my viewpoint he has been doing an admirable job of fixing deferred maintenance and building the physical plant to meet the growing transportation needs for a growing US population - all the while increasing shareholder value. I have seen more plant improvements in the past 10 years than I saw in the 38 years of my experience that preceeded them.
BaltACD The CSX 'plant rationalization' program during the 80's & 90's was rather agrssive and in addition to pruing unproductive branch lines also eliminated a number of Main Lines. The rationalization affected a great number of now former employees; former employees don't speak of their former employer in glowing terms. Couple that to Senior Managements pessimissim for the continued viability of railroads as profitable transportation mode and a lot of bad attitudes were generated. Making John Snow Chairman brought the bottom of the barrel in view - Snow was a politician at heart, not a railroader, not a businessman, not a financier - everything done was done for political effect, not for the continued benefit of the railroad as a ongoing business concern. When Snow was made Secretary of the Treasury by President Bush and extracted $70 Million from CSX as a 'severance package' employee disgust ramped up exponentially. Michael Ward had a large disfunctional organization on his plate when he became Chairman, succeeding John Snow. From my viewpoint he has been doing an admirable job of fixing deferred maintenance and building the physical plant to meet the growing transportation needs for a growing US population - all the while increasing shareholder value. I have seen more plant improvements in the past 10 years than I saw in the 38 years of my experience that preceeded them.
First of all, since no one else has mentioned it:
Welcome, Eric Hendrickson to these Forums
For a first post you kinda kicked the door in, but it did need to be done,[IMHO ]
Balt ACD has added his usual clarity to a subject, I'd bet he has thought about and discussed , more than once. As a topic it seems to rise to the surface more in comments ( or asides) by some Posters on an infrequent basis. .
For some reason the impression of CSX is that it has sort of inherited the position of "The Rodney Daigerfield" of the Railroad Industry. Not sure where or who that started and has actually happened.
Balt ACD's explanation certainly, seems to give the circumstances a timeline and hang some faces on responsibility for aspects of the Corporate slide into there role of the R.R. 'Rodney Dangerfield.' Back in the late 1990's and early 2000 years, I lived near Atlanta (Ga.) and was involved as a small cog in the wheel of Georgia OLI.. I met any number of NS Employees, and CSX folks as well, as also with some of the Shortline members,; They were all professional and willing to explain things to those of us from the Trucking side of the Transportation industry.
I had the good fortune to ride on a couple of OLI Safety Passenger Excursions that enabled non railroaders to experience what was an everyday occurrence for the Railroaders. They were pretty eye-opening rides for us who were not used to the traffic problems at highway-grade crossings, for the Engine Crews and MOW personnel.
Point being, as Larry ( Tree68) mentioned as well. The problems for CSX seem to reside in disgruntled former employees. and possibly soemwho were discharged as well. They have focused their anger in what amounts to unregulated web sites that spout vitriole and hate messages in ad hominem attacks that are unsubstantiated and relay rhetorical situations (?) to folks who are just bored and reading on The'Net, or may also have an axe to grind with CSX. They are sort of like 'crabs', and 'no seeums' (gnats) they are mostly annoying, and once spent, disappear.
Out here in Kansas we are pretty isolated from most of CSX's activities; about the only time CSX comes up, is when the odd run-through power shows up out here on UPRR, or BNSF.
So Eric, I don't think you have anything to not be proud of with your service to CSX. They have been around for a long tim; anyone that "Uncle Pete" would loan his Callenger (3985) ( and Steam Crew) to, and let them run it up and down their system, can't be all bad ...That was Pretty Cool !
Today's Class 1 railroads are very large organizations, organizations that are entwined in many highly technical and involved areas of knowledge and responsibilities. Operation of the physical plant to satisfy customer expectations in manner that gets the most efficiency out of equipment, motive power and crews. Maintenance of the physical plant so as to keep the plant well maintained and not seriously disrupt the service to customers and at the same time doing it with the most efficiency from the equipment, materials and manpower. Maintenance of the motive power and rolling equipment to keep the equipment and power in service and on the road hauling customers products with minimal breakdowns and doing so efficiently with the minimum of facilities and manpower. The business of 'selling' service to customers - devising services, schedules and pricing that solves the customers transportation 'problem'. The understanding that not all business that exists on line has profit potential for the company. Pricing the services that are provided to customers so that the carrier can make suitable profits and the customer feels he is paying a fair price for the services received. These are that aspects of the business everyone thinks they know more about than those that are actually involved in doing these jobs.
Beyond what I have just described we get into the worlds of finance, business forecasting and strategic planning. Planning for what is anticipated to happen tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. Plant improvements take time, money and materials to implement - trying to make the same improvements as everyone else when everyone else is making the improvement escalates the cost of the improvements as everyone is bidding against each other for a relatively finite amount of materials. Financing ongoing business operations and funding capital investments in plant and equipment - figuring out if it is more advantageous to own the improvement outright or to get involved in a lease arrangement - how to secure the necessary funds on the worlds financial markets. Tangentally, the carriers have massive real estate holdings to profitably manage - land the plant occupies today - land that the plant occupied in the past - facilities that are in use - facilities that are past use - surplus land to be sold for customer development - land to be aquired for new facility construction - easements for utilites that cross the property - leases of company property to individuals and collecting the lease payments.
The reality of railroad management is that there are few if any individuals that excell in all the aspects of the company that all contribute to funneling revenues to the bottom line. Getting a individual that can channel the best from all those areas, and more, is what is required to keep Class 1 carriers being profitable today and puting themselves in position to continue performing their services into the future.
Welcome to the Forum Eric!
I'll keep this brief. Hate for CSX? Well, it probably comes from some (certainly not all) railfans who have the misguided notion that railroads exist for their entertainment, not to move cargo and make money.
If a 'road decides to have a steam program, a heritage program, or any other kind of "whoop-de-doo" program railfans have to realize it's for a perceived benefit to the company, not to keep the "foamer" with the "Fallen Flag" patches all over his camera vest happy. I realize that and I submit most posters on the Forum realize that as well.
If CSX doesn't do any of these things, well it's their 'road and their choice. End of story. I can live with it.
By the way, when I've got some dead time on the job I like to park by the CSX tracks here in Richmond and watch the parade. It's the best show in town, and it's free! And it's not all "blue and yellow", you never know just what you might see!
By the way, the last few issues of "RailPace" I've seen didn't have any articles ripping CSX. They WERE ripping the begeezus out of New Jersey Transit and their handling of Superstorm Sandy, and rightfully so! Maybe I've missed some issues.
"Hate CSX"? Nah, I save that for Penn Central.
But I will say that I of the remaining seven Class I's, I think the least of CSX out of any of them. Why? Well, I'm in New England, and CSX can't seem to get out of here fast enough to suit them. Already, they've retrenched from Boston to Worcester. How much longer before they retreat to Springfield or even Albany? It's kinda hard to like a railroad that doesn't invest much into your area.
I personally dislike the track condition that I see. When CSX took over CR, the one story I heard was that when the new CSX track maintenance boss came to Massachusetts, he was heard to say to the former CR (now CSX) employees, "You guys really over-maintain your track around here." Sad to say, this less than auspicious start has proven itself out with barely passable track in the area. I once saw a track joint that I could stick my thumb into...and both rail joiner plates were broken at the same spot. There was nothing holding the rails together other than the spikes in the ties and the bond wire. And this wasn't just a freight siding, this was a CSX-owned main line that hosts passenger trains. On NH/PC/CR, this was 30mph track. On CSX, it's 10mph. It's kinda hard to like a railroad that puts passengers at risk due to a lack of track maintenance (see also: Amtrak Auto Train & Capital Limited derailments in 2002).
Then there's the customer experience. I have a friend who works for a large shipper of loads out and he has since the mid-1990's. He's explained to me that back in the CR days, about once a year, they'd get a car back to them still loaded. When CSX took over, they were doing it every month. It's hard to like a railroad that can't manage to consistantly ship loads to their destination.
For the historic preservation perspective, I know the president of a small RR museum that wanted to have a (very) dead switcher loco shipped to them for approx. 50 miles over CSX low-speed mainline track. But because the engine had plain bearings, it was a no-go. Years later, the loco gets cuts up because they could not get it shipped. Meanwhile, in the hobby press, there have been examples of plain bearing-equipped locos and cars that are being shipped over CSX. It's hard to like a railroad that...well...you get the point.
Now, maybe it's because of where I live and I see the problems with CSX while I don't with NS, UP, BNSF, etc. But CSX does suffer from comparison to Conrail...at least around here.
I will say that every CSX operating employee I've ever met has been pleasant and friendly. I've never had a bad experience with any of them.
Paul A. Cutler III
As a former UP and CNW employee, I watched a CSX predecessor go into the abyss. I was enough of a C&O fan and supporter to edit the C&O Historical Society's monthly newsletter from 1971 to 1978. In 1972 I rode the C&O main line on Amtrak, and was impressed with the smoothness of the track, the way trains kept moving on a two-main-track-CTC main line, and looked at it all in glowing terms when compared to the track of my financially-beleagured employer.1974: I rode over portions of the same line, hoping to impress my wife with a real railroad. What I got instead was mainline trackage being ripped out, signals turned sideways, trains waiting for us to clear, us waiting for other trains to clear, and so on.
Two more years, and another trip on the C&O. The track was noticeably rougher, and there were points where sudden jolts from the roadbed would be enough to startle one. This was also the point when the C&O was one of the railroads on which Amtrak's SDP40Fs were developing a bad reputation. And this is when the chairman was making statements that Chessie had "no deferred maintenance." Right.A trip, in the late 1970s, to Raceland Shops. Refurbished cars looked very bad coming out of there--no preparation whatsoever before slapping a new coat of paint on them--the paint blistered and rusted in no time. This practice was defended by the people in charge, but I could compare it to the CNW shops in Clinton, Iowa, which were doing things properly.By the next visit to Raceland in the early 80s, the hopper-production line had been shut down. Clifton Forge's locomotive shop was gone, and so were heavy repairs in places like Grand Rapids. The bean-counters were very much in control. I'm sure the dividends were paid, and the income continued tro set records, but The Mighty had indeed fallen.
We saw it from our vantage point at Proviso, too. Conrail would bring its trains in with good power, Chessie (mostly B&O for us at this point) would struggle in with its one-unit wonders. I caught a transfer job from Proviso to Barr Yard about then, and had a harrowing ride over the B&O from the connection along Western Avenue into Barr Yard (I remember when passenger trains plied this route...what a difference!). Thank Goodness we got the cab ride home!When the CSX merger came, they insisted that we make them a whole mess of blocks at our yard. Meanwhile, their one-unit (maybe two, sometimes) wonders would come in with the Proviso block (no separation at all, though a North Platte block would have worked out nicely). Sweet deal--we were doing a lot of their work for them, with no reciprocation. We didn't have the tracks in the bowl to keep that up for long, so they eventually got as good as they gave from us.By the time the Snow era came along, I was pretty much out of the loop except for what I saw in the yard...the occasional loads of coal to places on our line, with straw stuffed into the seams and holes in the hoppers (I'm not kidding!), and some of the most oxidized blue box cars you'd ever want to find. I was in on monthly meetings as a safety captain. Now you know that railroaders are always complaining--it goes with the job. But our guys would come back from Barr Yard with the stories about how CSX employee morale was totally shot--they were cut to bare bones, rough track, rougher bosses, etc., etc. And you'd have to know the employees I was hearing this from to get the full impact of what they were telling us. Employees and others would tell us about the downgrading and selling off of main lines that really should have been kept control of, and the circuitous routings that were now needed to get from Point A to Point B.I think things have improved under the current management. But they had to have a rude awakening...sun-kinks on their lines that didn't happen to anyone else because their roadbed wasn't done to the same standards, wrecks that were caused by lousy tracks rather than by other things (and they couldn't find employees to blame, like NS or UP could!). Sites like Trainorders would have pictures of places where a weed-covered right-of-way would be paralleling a first-class main line. Between CSX and NS, guess which was which. And I could drive along CSX tracks that carried passenger and coal trains, and count the mudholes by the splashes on the sides of the rails. Still can sometimes, unfortunately. And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.Of course, when one railroad takes over another, people are going to grouse about the changes being made, ignoring other positive aspects. A railfan likes to focus on the positive things. And Conrail had turned very positive before it was split up. Both NS and CSX had some problems incorporating the "ex-Con" into their systems. But CSX's lasted longer, and the CR portions, such as the Water Level route east of Cleveland, seemed to suffer more under the new leadership.Eric, enjoy your job! You will no matter what, if you're a railfan. But you can be proud of working for a company that's come quite a long way in the past few years. Don't look back, because that view won't be pretty. Stay positive! Most of the bashing is behind you. And we retirees need enthusiastic folks like you to help give us our pensions!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Welcome to the Trains forum Eric.
I believe that the matter may be as simple as the fact that the Southern and N&W had well run operations before forming NS. Their properties and finances were the crown jewel of the east and south. When NS was formed, the rationalization of the system was not nearly to the extent that CSX experienced when bringing Chessie and Seaboard together. NS also did not have the management missteps that CSX experienced in the early decade of its existence. About the biggest misstep NS had in this time frame was the failure of acquiring Conrail on their first attempt back in 1985.
In comparison, CSX appeared to be the heartless company operating at the whims of the accounting department while NS had already accomplished these "heartless" decisions back when deButts/Brosnan/Claytor ran Southern and Saunders/Fishwick/R.Claytor ran N&W.
I believe BaltACD and Carl also hit on some good points. The best way to sum it up may be that CSX is a little low on the Good Will side of the equation. Personally I have no issues with CSX. I know employees in both operating and management postions and all seem to be happy with the company. I believe the railroad has or is a long ways down the road to getting its act together.
From the railfan perspective, it is like the cool uncle and boring uncle scenario when comparing NS to CSX. For example, the Office Car train for CSX has F40PHs(I personally like these) while NS has classic F units in SR tuxedo paint(I personally like these too), however which OCS train would fans chase if both were out running the same day? Another example is the Heritage Locomotives for NS while CSX busies itself putting something as forward looking as keyboard boxcars around the logos on its locomotives. True, if CSX came out with a heritage locomotive program, they would be called copycats, yet NS basically copied UP but found a way to effectively trump the UP program--I have yet to hear a bad comment about the NS program.
UP, in the past, seemed to be regarded much the same as CSX is today. UP even had an on going steam program, yet still seemed to have a lesser reputation than ATSF or BN. These feelings toward UP seem to have abated over the years, the same will be the case for CSX.
Jay
I deal somewhat frequently with CSXT; and a number of years ago, some members of a loosely affiliated group of railfans asked me if I could look into a problem that one of them was having with the company. One of its officials had noticed photos of CSXT equipment that the railfan had posted on the Internet and threatened, on behalf of the company, to take legal action against him.
I happened to know the official who had supposedly threatened the railfan; and that approach didn't seem typical of her. So I contacted her and asked what had happened. She was totally puzzled by the situation. She had never communicated with the railfan, had never even heard of him, didn't know anything about his Internet photos, had never threatened him about anything; and was generally well disposed toward railfans who showed an interest in the company. I learned, after I passed that information back to the railfans who had contacted me, that the scenario that they had described to me had actually never happened. The railfan's story about having been threatened was a total fabrication.
I don't know why the railfan made up his story. I suspect that he, like Eric, observed the frequency with which railfans criticize CSXT and that he decided that the best way for him to fit into the railfan culture would be to claim that he had been treated badly by CSXT.
After that experience, I ceased being concerned about how railfans view CSXT.
ETHOVERMaybe railfans are like soldiers. (I am former US Army by the way). If they are not whining, something is wrong.
That Eric is so very true, and relating to some of your other inquiries about railfans, if people bought stock on the advise of a railfan the poor man would go broke. Railfans are fickle, no doubt...but not all fall in that catagory. A railfan should be a fan of trains and the variety available to them, CSX included, he favors a specific road or topic, but a true railfan simply loves trains and accepts the product brought to him.
Here in Ohio we got caught up in the NS hype with its heritage fleet, my quest was to get all 20 in the wild. I too am a former "ground pounder"...mission accomplished. This period also seen some steam activity on NS tracks as well. During this frenzy I decided to railfan CSX one day and hiked to some vantage points for unique video and photo's. The CSX crews put on quite a show, I think they were surprised a railfan was trackside. They probably hadn't seen one in quite a while and all were waiving and blowing the horn for me.
Critics of CSX of late are those wishful thinkers who want to see a CSX heritage program. CSX said they are not going to such. Its their railroad, live with it...but some railfans whine about it and start throwing slanderous remarks about CSX. I think in the overall scheme of things CSX freight traffic is still ahead of NS. These critical railfans who desire to work for a railroad, would they decline an employment opportunity with CSX? I doubt it.
Welcome aboard Eric...."Eleven Bravo...America's best"
CShaveRR As a former UP and CNW employee, I watched a CSX predecessor go into the abyss. I was enough of a C&O fan and supporter to edit the C&O Historical Society's monthly newsletter from 1971 to 1978. In 1972 I rode the C&O main line on Amtrak, and was impressed with the smoothness of the track, the way trains kept moving on a two-main-track-CTC main line, and looked at it all in glowing terms when compared to the track of my financially-beleagured employer.1974: I rode over portions of the same line, hoping to impress my wife with a real railroad. What I got instead was mainline trackage being ripped out, signals turned sideways, trains waiting for us to clear, us waiting for other trains to clear, and so on. Two more years, and another trip on the C&O. The track was noticeably rougher, and there were points where sudden jolts from the roadbed would be enough to startle one. This was also the point when the C&O was one of the railroads on which Amtrak's SDP40Fs were developing a bad reputation. And this is when the chairman was making statements that Chessie had "no deferred maintenance." Right.A trip, in the late 1970s, to Raceland Shops. Refurbished cars looked very bad coming out of there--no preparation whatsoever before slapping a new coat of paint on them--the paint blistered and rusted in no time. This practice was defended by the people in charge, but I could compare it to the CNW shops in Clinton, Iowa, which were doing things properly.By the next visit to Raceland in the early 80s, the hopper-production line had been shut down. Clifton Forge's locomotive shop was gone, and so were heavy repairs in places like Grand Rapids. The bean-counters were very much in control. I'm sure the dividends were paid, and the income continued tro set records, but The Mighty had indeed fallen. We saw it from our vantage point at Proviso, too. Conrail would bring its trains in with good power, Chessie (mostly B&O for us at this point) would struggle in with its one-unit wonders. I caught a transfer job from Proviso to Barr Yard about then, and had a harrowing ride over the B&O from the connection along Western Avenue into Barr Yard (I remember when passenger trains plied this route...what a difference!). Thank Goodness we got the cab ride home!When the CSX merger came, they insisted that we make them a whole mess of blocks at our yard. Meanwhile, their one-unit (maybe two, sometimes) wonders would come in with the Proviso block (no separation at all, though a North Platte block would have worked out nicely). Sweet deal--we were doing a lot of their work for them, with no reciprocation. We didn't have the tracks in the bowl to keep that up for long, so they eventually got as good as they gave from us.By the time the Snow era came along, I was pretty much out of the loop except for what I saw in the yard...the occasional loads of coal to places on our line, with straw stuffed into the seams and holes in the hoppers (I'm not kidding!), and some of the most oxidized blue box cars you'd ever want to find. I was in on monthly meetings as a safety captain. Now you know that railroaders are always complaining--it goes with the job. But our guys would come back from Barr Yard with the stories about how CSX employee morale was totally shot--they were cut to bare bones, rough track, rougher bosses, etc., etc. And you'd have to know the employees I was hearing this from to get the full impact of what they were telling us. Employees and others would tell us about the downgrading and selling off of main lines that really should have been kept control of, and the circuitous routings that were now needed to get from Point A to Point B.I think things have improved under the current management. But they had to have a rude awakening...sun-kinks on their lines that didn't happen to anyone else because their roadbed wasn't done to the same standards, wrecks that were caused by lousy tracks rather than by other things (and they couldn't find employees to blame, like NS or UP could!). Sites like Trainorders would have pictures of places where a weed-covered right-of-way would be paralleling a first-class main line. Between CSX and NS, guess which was which. And I could drive along CSX tracks that carried passenger and coal trains, and count the mudholes by the splashes on the sides of the rails. Still can sometimes, unfortunately. And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.Of course, when one railroad takes over another, people are going to grouse about the changes being made, ignoring other positive aspects. A railfan likes to focus on the positive things. And Conrail had turned very positive before it was split up. Both NS and CSX had some problems incorporating the "ex-Con" into their systems. But CSX's lasted longer, and the CR portions, such as the Water Level route east of Cleveland, seemed to suffer more under the new leadership.Eric, enjoy your job! You will no matter what, if you're a railfan. But you can be proud of working for a company that's come quite a long way in the past few years. Don't look back, because that view won't be pretty. Stay positive! Most of the bashing is behind you. And we retirees need enthusiastic folks like you to help give us our pensions!
Johnny
Paul3 "Hate CSX"? Nah, I save that for Penn Central. But I will say that I of the remaining seven Class I's, I think the least of CSX out of any of them. Why? Well, I'm in New England, and CSX can't seem to get out of here fast enough to suit them. Already, they've retrenched from Boston to Worcester. How much longer before they retreat to Springfield or even Albany? It's kinda hard to like a railroad that doesn't invest much into your area. I personally dislike the track condition that I see. When CSX took over CR, the one story I heard was that when the new CSX track maintenance boss came to Massachusetts, he was heard to say to the former CR (now CSX) employees, "You guys really over-maintain your track around here." Sad to say, this less than auspicious start has proven itself out with barely passable track in the area. I once saw a track joint that I could stick my thumb into...and both rail joiner plates were broken at the same spot. There was nothing holding the rails together other than the spikes in the ties and the bond wire. And this wasn't just a freight siding, this was a CSX-owned main line that hosts passenger trains. On NH/PC/CR, this was 30mph track. On CSX, it's 10mph. It's kinda hard to like a railroad that puts passengers at risk due to a lack of track maintenance (see also: Amtrak Auto Train & Capital Limited derailments in 2002). Then there's the customer experience. I have a friend who works for a large shipper of loads out and he has since the mid-1990's. He's explained to me that back in the CR days, about once a year, they'd get a car back to them still loaded. When CSX took over, they were doing it every month. It's hard to like a railroad that can't manage to consistantly ship loads to their destination. For the historic preservation perspective, I know the president of a small RR museum that wanted to have a (very) dead switcher loco shipped to them for approx. 50 miles over CSX low-speed mainline track. But because the engine had plain bearings, it was a no-go. Years later, the loco gets cuts up because they could not get it shipped. Meanwhile, in the hobby press, there have been examples of plain bearing-equipped locos and cars that are being shipped over CSX. It's hard to like a railroad that...well...you get the point. Now, maybe it's because of where I live and I see the problems with CSX while I don't with NS, UP, BNSF, etc. But CSX does suffer from comparison to Conrail...at least around here. I will say that every CSX operating employee I've ever met has been pleasant and friendly. I've never had a bad experience with any of them. Paul A. Cutler III
I'm also a New Englander living in a state not directly served by CSX, but they are the main connection for the regional RR; the Providence & Worcester, that is the (almost) exclusive freight operator here.
You do make a lot of good points although as far as the "retreat" from Beacon Park to Worcester goes;You do realize that this is what the Commonwealth of Massachusetts wants and has been seeking since Conrail days, right?
I am certain that if Norfolk Southern had succesfully merged with all of Conrail as it tried to prior to splitting CR with CSX, the State would still have forced this change, after all, they own the trackage east of Worcester and can dictate to the railroad....
It's kind of like when many NE railfans were mad at Penn Central for absorbing the New Haven, something the larger railroad was forced to do by the Federal Government.
The saga of the Old Colony RR museum's Alco switcher is one that I agree reflects very badly on CSX.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
With regard to the beancounters running the railroad, one may shudder to consider what might have been if "The Children's Fund" had been able to exert influence on CSX. The looting of the treasury that many expected would come to pass may well have signalled the death knell of CSX.
Larry, that was my thought. As I recall, it was known that the powers that were at the Children's Fund thought that no money should be spent on maintaining the property but that all profits should be shared by the stockholders. How stupid can people in finance be?
It wasn't stupidity. It was greed as in corporate raiding then abandoning.
Norm
I have seen evidence of this hatred for CSX, primarily among railfan types who have no idea what they are talking about.
In all of my years of shooting train photos, the most annoying thing to put up with is listening to someone go off on CSX, citing most of all, the lack of a "steam program". It's annoying to listen to, especially when CSX is jokingly referred to as "Crash, Stop, eXplode". In reference to rail fan forums and the vitriol toward CSX, my son belongs to several, and there is a fair amount of CSX bashing that goes on. I find it annoying, mainly because very little is based in fact, or if it is based in fact, it is loosely based, and twisted beyond recognition.
The only exposure we get to CSX, is if we catch the through freight on the BNSF, other than that, I don't see much of anything CSX, unless I happen to be down along the IHB.
I guess what bothers me the most, is people finding a nugget of information on the internet, and turning it into a whole story, and then it gets passed around, and the truth being a secondary consideration.
The member formerly known as "TimChgo9"
CShaveRR And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.
And I heard the tale about the old B&O main line--nicely upgraded to two-main-track CTC clear from Chicago into Ohio, then allowed to deteriorate so that the promised speeds couldn't be delivered on.
I am not sure where you got your information I spent this morning weaving UPS trains around MOW between Willow Creek In, and Deshler Oh. There is all of two slow ordesr on the entire subdivision, one of which is in an area that was tamped and just needed tonnage run over it.
A little bit of my life trivia involving the OP. Eric hired me as a dispatcher quite a few years ago, and is a great boss to work for.
An "expensive model collector"
I'm glad to hear that the MOW crews are out there. I do know that CSX practice is to hold off on maintenance until a "blitz" can be done to restore the line, usually routing most of the traffic off said line until the work is accomplished. I hope the line remains in good repair for a long time to come.I'm glad to hear accurate information from anyone with firsthand knowledge, and especially appreciated hearing that most CSX employees seem friendly toward railfans. That wouldn't hold true if they didn't at least enjoy some aspect of their work (I know that when railfans could break through the defenses and come visit me, they were always welcomed!)
CSX has been putting substantial resources into both the "Chicago Line" through central NY, and the St. Lawrence Sub (Conrail's Montreal Secondary). I would presume the work on the Chicago Line is mostly ongoing maintenance, however the St Lawrence Sub work is directly in response to the new intermodal facility in the Montreal area. We're seeing a lot of stacks running up and down the line these days.
Speeds on the St Lawrence Sub had dropped to 25 MPH, resulting in the run between Syracuse and Massena becoming a two-crew trip. The work they're doing will bring the line back to 40, and one conversation I had indicated that they may shoot for 50, although that's probably a ways off. Apparently the line was, at one time, good for 50 MPH.
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