Let us hold off an analysis until some poster can give us a complete picture of CSX's financial and operating pictures vs other RRs. Such as
1. operating ratio
2. Average train speed
3. Dwell time
4. Price earning raatio
5. Retained earnings
6. capital spending requirements next few years
7. derailments per 1000 miles
8. train re crews
9. Delayed capital sepnding such a Virginia ave tunnel expansion ??
10.. etc.
These type figures would enable a better understanding of CSX's need to concentrate on fixing up their RR ? Wonder if CSX could even consider reopening Saluda if it was their's ?
Those kinds of factors might determine whether or not an investor would purchase CSX stock; however I have difficulty envisioning a railfan deciding to "hate" CSX because of factors such as retained earnings. But anyone who is interested in CSX's corporate financial information can obtain it very directly by searching through the "investors" section on the company Web site.
I wouldn't be too concerned about it. CSX is a fine company with a good reputation. Online posters who complain have too much time on their hands and should probably get a life. CSX is not in the rail fan entertainment business.
Northwest Indiana checking in here. The CSX mainline running from Chicago to Ohio is a fine piece of railroad in my non railroading eyes and ears. Other than the pile up of 3 trains near Westville in January 2012, things seem pretty fluid. The railroad is investing heavily in their ROW and it is 60mph property for intermodals, auto racks, and apple trains with 50mph for everything else.
I monitor operations on the scanner and their trains, particularly those UPS mail trains are run very tightly.
I am impressed and as an investor have an entry point, if the stock drops.
Ed
Some very well thought out answers here.
From a business perspective CSX is doing what it can to survive. But even some members of its management team have admitted to making decisions that yielded unwanted results. But that happens with all businesses.
From a southeastern railfan's point of view:
The Seaboard Coast Line was not in bad financial shape before the CSX merger. One thing a number of us miss is the parade of trains we used to get in Florida back in the 70s-early 80s.....and I do mean parade; especially in comparison to today. The "A-LIne" was still double tracked in many stretches between south Georgia and Tampa, Florida. Amtrak trains were run by SCL crews that took pride in delivering the trains on time (as best possible). Crews were generally friendly towards rail fans, sometimes even violating rules and welcoming them inside of locomotive cabs.
After the CSX merger many lines in the Florida and Georgia regions were abandoned and removed. Understandably this was done since SCL was being taxed for every mile of track it owned and the low or non-existent revenues were hurting the bottom line.
The impressive locomotive service shop in Tampa was converted to a freight car repair shop and, if IIRC, all major locomotive service in the southeast was transferred to Waycross, Georgia. Rail fan passenger specials became rare (I participated in the 1981 Chessie 614 run as an NRHS member). The new management made it clear that non-CSX movements (including Amtrak) were considered to be profit hurting annoyances.
But, imho, a good number of rail fans understand the reasons.....and more..for the above. So instead of "hating", perhaps a more realistic thought would be that a number of the complainers simply miss the way things were and in reality are simply "lamenting" and don't really wish ill-will against CSX. Hopefully things will continue to improve for CSX.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
The CSX track around here is in great shape,Bostic NC,Charlotte NC,Florence SC, Chester SC,Camden SC,Hamlet NC,Spruce Pines NC,Marion NC, the areas I go train watching and others CSX employees and NS are some of the best.
Russell
Quick question for the railfans in the New York State area.
I remember that CSX did have some issues with bad track or road bed, I think, on one of the east-west mainlines as well as some frequently used branch lines. There were some derailments that made the news. It may have been from Buffalo and westward.
How are things today?
From what I've seen, CSX has been quite busy on the "Chicago Line," maintenance wise - ties, even new signals.
And they just put in a huge number of ties on the St Lawrence Sub (with the usual associated work), although that's more to get the speeds up than anything else.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Consider that many fans' attitudes toward NS were not too favorable during the period between the end of the steam program and the unveiling of the NS Heritage Fleet.
CSSHEGEWISCH Consider that many fans' attitudes toward NS were not too favorable during the period between the end of the steam program and the unveiling of the NS Heritage Fleet.
Johnny
Mookie I agree with you. And Mike stay focused on the positive. CSX is a great railroad as are all the other class 1 and lots of the short lines. To paraphrase a current saying from politics the low information railroad fans (politically voters) usually do not know what they are saying.. Like politics and religion you cannot change someone's mind on these subjects so do not even try. Walk away from these people and do not lower your self into the gutter by argueing with them. Life is too short to get ulcers from these people. Sit back and enjoy CSX. They are a great railroad but they have a few warts like all the others. Just try in your small way to remove the warts when possible within the company's rules.
I will be honest, I don't hate CSX, they have some my favorite former Class 1 railroad's in their family, including the Monon, C&O, and the WM. The only down side is how they treat Amtrak and their heritage. I few that they don't care about them at all. I get their a company that is trying to make money but i feel they could at least care a little bit more.
Perhaps they had a Chessie System or Seaboard System rail line through their town or county and it was removed after the CSX merger. What if that is why they do not like CSX.
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
If a railfan is under 30 years old why would they care about a Steam Program or Heritage Diesel Locomotives?
Railfans are silly creatures.
One would go mad trying to figure them out.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Railfans are silly creatures. One would go mad trying to figure them out.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
MookieAlmost sound like humans, don't they....
Don't know. Not familiar with the species.
My only concerns with CSX is how it runs Amtrak trains.Initially after the Conrail took over the train on time performance as well as ride quality deteriorate. Once on ns both improved. CSX does a much better job with on time performance with the silver service and auto train, but the ride is still iffy. On overnite trains I book a sleeper, so the ride quality is important. In my eyes and my only dealings with CSX in a indirect manner is they need to be a better host. With that said I am sure Amtrak as well shares in the blame for its trains issues, but the issue of road bed is CSX.
I would like to see steam operating on CSX but this is a CSX issue and I respect thier decisions.
One only has to think back to the 614 excursions, running at track speed to bring back fond memories of main line steamers running like they did.
I hope CSX continues to perform well financially an wish your continued success.
zugmann Mookie Almost sound like humans, don't they.... Don't know. Not familiar with the species.
Mookie Almost sound like humans, don't they....
We have the old B&O main line running through our town here in northeast Ohio (CSX these days) and no one, especially me, "hates" the railroad. In fact, our local newspaper not infrequently refers to the city as a "former railroad town." We're quite proud of our 3 railroads, actually. But all that being said, CSX doesn't seem to like us very much.
First, they have the lowest corporate visibility. They tore down their old freight station after decades of neglect, even though it was located on a main street. The old passenger station is now similarly neglected; a fire happened inside this past year because it's not secured well at all.
Second, our Main Street bridge over the river and CSX tracks was out of service for many months longer than necessary because the construction company and the fiber optics people couldn't get CSX to coordinate with them or communicate effectively. Then when the bridge finally reopened CSX insisted on installing the ugliest wire screen on the bridge sidewalk going over their tracks. The city protested this defacement of our landmark bridge, but to no avail. Now we are stuck with something ugly no one wanted (and will be ineffective).
Third, when CSX lowered their tracks under that bridge a year or two ago they took up many rotted ties and left them on the river bank where many promptly slid into our newly cleaned-up and now healthy river. Needless to say, the creosote on these ties is now nicely being absorbed by the river and the fish. When, at my urging, the city law department contacted CSX about this situation the railroad simply stonewalled the city, not even deigning to reply.
Fourth, it's well known in town that any attempt to contact CSX on any topic will be an exercise in frustration. Talk about an absentee landlord!
CSX never seems to buy any local advertising (well, why would they?) or support anything of interest to our area and its railroad heritage like Operation Lifesaver, or gosh forbid, a steam excursion. They seem to go out of their way to fly under the radar, not be noticed, and be forgotten.
As a result, they are, except for the annoyance they often cause by engineers laying on the horn for the crossing. Why, in the middle of the night, they seem to d-r-a-g o-u-t the horn sounding for what seems like minutes, waking up half the city needlessly, I can't imagine.
Still, we like CSX because of what it reminds us. But would it kill them to try to be a better corporate citizen? That being said, it's the main railroad game in town and I, like any railfan, wish it a long life and every success.
NKP guyAs a result, they are, except for the annoyance they often cause by engineers laying on the horn for the crossing. Why, in the middle of the night, they seem to d-r-a-g o-u-t the horn sounding for what seems like minutes, waking up half the city needlessly, I can't imagine. Still, we like CSX because of what it reminds us. But would it kill them to try to be a better corporate citizen? That being said, it's the main railroad game in town and I, like any railfan, wish it a long life and every success.
It ain't just the CSX!! But that "The public be damned" attitude goes far back to Wm. Vanderbilt:
"In 1883, reporter John Dickinson Sherman questioned him about why he ran the limited express train: "Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?" Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them and, of course, as long as they run them we must do the same." " (from Wiki)
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmVanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay.
That would be a wiki quote, wouldn't it? ISTR Vanderbilt's quote being something like "the public interest be damned" ... which puts a somewhat different light on what he was actually saying. (He was responding to the reporter's invocation of 'the public interest' as if it were what we moderns might call a 'stakeholder' in Vanderbilt's operating decisions.)
I'm certain there is at least one person here who can find the actual text of the interview and provide it for us...
Talk about a " Zombie Topic" [ one that will not go away, or keeps rising like Lazarus(?)].
Schlimm wrote:[snipped] "... "In 1883, reporter John Dickinson Sherman questioned him about why he ran the limited express train: "Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?" Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay. We have tried again and again to get the different roads to give them up; but they will run them and, of course, as long as they run them we must do the same." (from Wiki) [snip]"
This Thread has a long running history in this FORUM from July of 2013 to current. My curiosity was arroused, so I went back to read it from the Original Post.
He wrote: "...My first posting to the Trains forum, so be patient with me.First off, let me be clear, I work for CSX. I've been employed by CSX for 10+ years now in both union and managment positions. I currently work as a mid-level manager in operations. Overall, I've worked in the rail industry for almost 20 years now. Previously for the Soo Line/CP, and then for Amtrak. (I will save my comments on CSX for the end.) I am a lifelong railfan and modeler.
It seems to me that CSX is consistantly bashed on railfan blogs and literature. Some of it is deserved, I am sure. But some of it seems to be rooted in a deep hate for this company. I am not sure why. I have seen dislike for a rail company many times before. UP and Rail America come to mind. But the disdane seems light compared to information published on CSX..." [A long and interesting post byETHover, if one is interested check it out]
As I went back to read in the Thread, mainly looking for comments by BaltACD [for apparent reasons]. I think that his comments referencing the Industry rationalizations (and thus CSX's) created a lot of animus within the then current and 'former' employees whose lives and jobs were put into turmoil by the 'rationalizations' that took place, as an industry re-trenched from financial and plant issues, of a industry that had been told it had 'Overbuilt' during the good times of the 1900's, and into the 1960's. Branches were cut out, main lines 'singled' out; thus jobs as well. Territories were lengthened Division and Crew Reassigned to different areas. Nothing will create animus in a community like the 'death' of a major employer, and the following of jobs being shuffled about. Unions saw their membership pools deminished, and trade groups merged to create new pools of members, and political power bases. Management changed as well, Lifelong railroaders retired, new managers with no' railroad experience' were brought in to solve the chaffing issues of the Enter industry; shrinking OR's, and Stock/Bond prices loosing their stability.
Enter the John Snow administration into the picture (1970 v.p. for government at C&O RR) until the creation of CSXT in 1980 when he moved to that new entity. IT( the division of Conrail) seemed to be an industry 'given' that 'Wick' Moorman bested John Snow in the 'battle to divide up the assets of Conrail in 1997. Link @ http://articles.dailypress.com/1997-04-09/business/9704090129_1_norfolk-southern-two-transcontinental-giants-conrail FTA: "...`I think it's a terrific outcome,'' said CSX Chairman John Snow. ``It is about as close to the ideal as you could get.'' Snow said that despite the high purchase price and the need to spend more than $200 million on capital improvements, CSX expects a positive cash flow within two years... CSX is now larger than NS, but the 58-42 split would leave them almost equal in size..."
If one 'googles' " Hate CSX Railroad" I got 84,000 responses. Mr. ET Hover mentioned dropping his membership in 'Trainorders.com' because of the 'hate/vituperation' being present in posts there. There is no-one more angered than a 'spurned' employee or lover. The Internet is a way to get back at the source of ones real or imagined injustices. It seems that CSXT is a big target for anonymous attacks.
I think that some of the posters here have pretty well laid the animus towards CSXT to rest.
In particular, a comment by Jay Potter would seem to sum up the situation: Posted by JayPotter on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:01 AM [snipped] "...I happened to know the official who had supposedly threatened the railfan; and that approach didn't seem typical of her. So I contacted her and asked what had happened. She was totally puzzled by the situation. She had never communicated with the railfan, had never even heard of him, didn't know anything about his Internet photos, had never threatened him about anything; and was generally well disposed toward railfans who showed an interest in the company. I learned, after I passed that information back to the railfans who had contacted me, that the scenario that they had described to me had actually never happened. The railfan's story about having been threatened was a total fabrication... ..After that experience, I ceased being concerned about how railfans view CSXT.."
[EDIT to add content] There is a concurrent running Thread on the Steam& preservation Forum that takes up CSXT's policies about having Steam powered 'fan' trains on their poroperty @ http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/224990.aspx
It starts as a diatribe against CSXT and their policy of 'no steam' but takes a positive twist about the end of 2013 when CSXT starts a cycle of TV Commercials. Then (Firelock 72) Wayne makes a post referencing the CSX's contribution to the 'Cosmetic' repairs on an ACL Steam Locomotive,#1504, a Pacific type on static display in Jacksonville, Fla. and his request to send a "Thank You' on CSXT's website for their involvement in that project...Certailnly, a positive development !
Wizlish schlimm Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay. That would be a wiki quote, wouldn't it? ISTR Vanderbilt's quote being something like "the public interest be damned" ... which puts a somewhat different light on what he was actually saying. (He was responding to the reporter's invocation of 'the public interest' as if it were what we moderns might call a 'stakeholder' in Vanderbilt's operating decisions.) I'm certain there is at least one person here who can find the actual text of the interview and provide it for us...
schlimm Vanderbilt responded with: "Accommodation of the public? The public be damned! We run them because we have to. They do not pay.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1018&dat=19361106&id=DbckAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zA8GAAAAIBAJ&pg=1501,734632
Professor: Scchlimm said: "...And I did not revive the thread. That was someone named Soleberg, and many comments followed. And what is wrong with an old thread?.."
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !
samfp1943here is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !
Agreed! Though your use of the term "zombie" seemed pejorative or at least disapproving.
schlimm samfp1943 here is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific ! Agreed! Though your use of the term "zombie" seemed pejorative or at least disapproving.
samfp1943 here is absolutely nothing wrong with this Thread(Old?not!), or any other revival of a thread from the' Archives'... Many topics around here are still interesting; if they provoke more current questions and responses...Terrific !
You are right about the choice of words I made..maybe 'Zombie' could be considered a pejorative term. In the past, it did have that only that context.
It seems that in this day the usage (of the term Zombie) has come to a more common terminology to indicate a thing; rather than a strictly,(in) human(?) meaning. I might liken it to the old TIMEX watch ads "...Takes a likin' and keeps on tickin'... " Or maybe, usage of an item that would last far beyond its normal,exptation of a 'lifetime' .
NY Times declined to print the word Vanderbilt said The public be.
wanswheel NY Times declined to print the word Vanderbilt said The public be. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE4DC143DE533A2575AC0A9669D94639FD7CF
Portrays the cutthroat nature of the 'titans' of the day.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Mookie zugmann Mookie Almost sound like humans, don't they.... Don't know. Not familiar with the species. I think you might be on to something....
I think you might be on to something....
Carefull there Mooks.The Zugster is evolving from ground monkey (switchemthrowus Terrasapiens) into yard hog (Canus Throttlus - Yardus). Pretty soon he'll be attracted to the locomotive cab mirror and similar such things.
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