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blue streak 1 The biggest concern that all Transit systems [ Amtrak, Commuter, subway, bus ] is the possibility of flooding. I will focus on RRs except where others come into play. j. The 4 East River tunnels.
The biggest concern that all Transit systems [ Amtrak, Commuter, subway, bus ] is the possibility of flooding. I will focus on RRs except where others come into play.
j. The 4 East River tunnels.
Have the answer for for the East river tunnels --- No flood gate but MTA is trying to prevent flood waters. Check these pictures.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6086208770/in/photostream/
Listen to continuing storm coverage live at one of these sites:
Flooding has to be classified into 2 kinds: Saltwater and Freshwater.
If there is a choice freshwater is always the first choice.
There are a number of tunnels that can be affected by flooding. Each of these tunnels will be subject to a series of questions that those of you that know may be able to answer.
1. What is the MSL [ MEAN SEA LEVEL ] elevation of the tunnel especially the openings?
2. How close to a body of water is the tunnel and will that body of water flood fresh or seawater?
3 Is there flood gates protecting this tunnel?
4. Is this tunnel connected to any other tunnel in any way?
5. Does the tunnel have water pumps and how are the tunnel pumps powered? Is it off the power grid? and does it have some kind of back up power source such as diesel generators or diesel direct?
5. A non inclusive list of tunnels south to north and some of each's problems
a. CSX Virginia ave tunnel.
b. Amtrak 1st St tunnel to WASH Union station. Any connections to Metro subways?
c. Baltimore CSX Howard St tunnel?
d. Amtrak Baltimore B&P tunnel. Any connection to Howard St tunnel.
e. PHL although not tunnels per say the Zoo interlocking fly unders? Also the elevation of 30th St station is fairly low?
f. Trenton -- The almost tunnel just south of Amtrak station.
g. PATH tunnels. e know they are protected by some flood gates.
h. North river tunnels [2] for Amtrak from NJ - NYP
i. NYP elevation? Note the eighth Ave subway runs right over the boarding platforms at NYP so if water gets into that tunnel then water would fall into the platform area. 2nd note there are access tunnels and utility conduits 20+ ft under the platforms.
k. Elevation of Sunnyside yard. Water could run into East River tunnels?
If any salt water gets into any of the switch motors, signal cables, signal cabinets, power cables [ many of these items have very old insulation that may not be impervious to salt water. The salt can have long lasting effects on any wiring and motors. Sometimes a fresh water flush can help but no guarantees especially if imersion is long lasting..
Some Amtrak NEC SERVICE CANCELLED for Sat. All Sunday Amtrak service cancelled on NEC including Albany and Harrisburg. + some long distance trains.
Sounds like it will be awhile before everything gets back to normal the only bit of good news is the Irene weakened to a category 1 storm. However I have heard this will flood the NY subway system.
When he finally reached Islamorada, there was a crowd of men, women, and children waiting. They were loaded on board and Haycraft was going to begin the return journey. Suddenly, a twenty foot tidal wave hit the train and toppled all eleven cars. The engine did not fall and Haycraft and the engine crew survived. The people in the train cars were not so lucky.
http://www.suite101.com/content/the-labor-day-hurricane-of-1935-and-the-end-of-the-fec-railway-a245324
Thankfully, forecasting has improved since then. Warning has been given to get out before it is too late.
And in New York City area: From the Weatherbell.com site:
http://www.weatherbell.com/weather-news/new-york-city-plans-to-shut-down-transportation-system-before-irene-hits/
FTL: "...In preparation for Hurricane Irene, New York City is taking action. According to the New York Daily News, New York City is planning on shutting down the entire transportation system on Saturday. As part of the MTA's hurricane plan, before the shutdown begins, a 10 to 12 hour evacuation period will occur. Subway service will be the first to begin suspension and this will happen at least 8 hours before landfall. All rail and bus services will begin to shutdown when sustained winds reach 39 mph. The risk of keeping subway tunnels open during hurricane conditions is extremely dangerous. Numerous subway tunnels are guarenteed to flood in a Category 1 hurricane. Most lines that run through lower Manhatten, as well as under-river tunnels, are at a high risk of flooding..."
[Disclaimer;] This is a relatively new weather site. And IMHO. The attraction here is a couple of highly respected 'weather guys'- Joe Bastardi and Joe d'Aleo. I have watched Joe Bastardi as he did TV spots for "Accu-Weather" for a number if years. He has been remarkably accurate. He was on a radio broadcast about this past tuesday, and pretty much laids out what seems to be happening with this storm track for Hurricane Irene,currently with this new business. (?).]
Interesting topic, and I wonder what kind of impact this will have as places (ports, for example) experience delays. How long will it take for delays on the east coast take to make it to the west coast (backed up trains, etc)?
Dan
Mayor of Philadelphia just announced all SEPTA service will stop midnight Saturday. It is the first time (according to the mayor) this has happened since the inception of SEPTA.
James
As of 5:30 PM thursday Amtrak cancelled all florida service Fri - Sun including Auto Train and Carolinian Sat - Sun.
This probably is because CSX will be securing all crossing signals against wind damage. Further the record of trees across the tracks of CSX from Florence north has been a problem even in minor storms not hurricanes.
EDIT: Amtrak is operating Silver Star MIA - JAX to carry the many intra Florida passengers it carries. Especially MIA - TPA - ORLANDO.
If and it is a big if: The eye of the Irene should go just west of the NEC for any distance we may find that the old style PRR style CAT will be substantially damaged. I could see months of diesel hauled trains if that admittaly low probable track of Irene should happen. maybe a change to electric motors at Newark - New Rochelle? A track further east of Irene may damage the old constant tension NH CAT severely..
Amtrak: Good thing we got that money for upgrades cause now we'll be using it for repairs!
More immediate concern is the forecast for the Carolina's. Here is Norfolk Southern's notice: http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/
Seems likely that CSX will have a similar plan.
It could be very costly, but I have no doubt the both will recover from the storm.
Agnes was the straw, but the EL could barely recover from an afternoon thunder shower. Times have changed.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Well, good ol' Amtrak has already cancelled everything south of DC.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I was thinking the same thoughts (Agnes vs Erie Lackawanna). With our recent trip to the Allentown, Pa area and the geography of the railroads in PA - valley running for the most part, it is obvious that Irene can cause some serious damage.
Let's hope folks are prepared for this and get outta town, particularly in the barrier island area of NC. We vacation frequently at Emerald Isle in NC and that area is really vulnerable.
ed
Let's lay out all the potential threats and timing involved with Hurricane Irene.
http://www.weather.com/weather/hurricanecentral/article/hurricane-irene-major-northeast-threats_2011-08-23
Hurricane Agnes in 1972 caused massive damage in the Northeast. There was much damage to railroads. Agnes has been blamed for helping drive the then limping along, Erie Lackawana into bankruptcy.
Forecasters are warning Hurricane Irene could track through the Northeast. What are railroads doing to prepare?
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