Well, I went to the list, but took a hold-down on a utility gig. There's a couple of jobs open in the next few weeks, that I can hopefully stay away from being on-call.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Deggesty [snipped] . . . ( he was said to have four days off every week) . . .
3:00 PM Sunday to 3:00 PM Monday = 24 hrs.;
11:00 PM Tuesday to 11:00 PM Wednesday = 24 hrs.;
7:00 AM Thursday to 7:00 AM Saturday = 48 hrs.
Yeah, I can see why zug compares it to being poked in the eye . . .
- Paul North.
Another example of moving from shift to shift was that of the operator in Brookhaven, Miss., forty and more years ago. The swing man worked from 7:00 to 3:00 on Saturday and Sunday, had twenty-four hours off, and worked 3:00 to 11:00 Monday and Tuesday, had another twenty-four hours off, and worked 11:00 to 7:00 Wednesday night-Thursday morning ( he was said to have four days off every week). Another man worked the twenty-first trick; I never did learn where he worked the rest of his week; he may well have been a real "suitcase man" going from station to station fill his workweek--there may have been that many three-trick stations on the Louisiana Division of the IC.
Johnny
then again, maybe I'm recalling the wrong forum, thread, and poster. Here's one from that same website, by "hbgdispatcher" on March 26, 2011:
In a typical week, there are 4.25 full-time 'jobs' of 40 hours each (7 days x 24 hrs. = 168 hrs. / 40 hrs. per 'job' = 4.25 jobs.). I'm now recalling that within the past couple of months BaltACD had a post somewhere on this Forum (perhaps not this thread, though) here with a similar explanation of how a dispatching office 'protects' those slots with 4 people for each one, plus a little extra help.
On another website - the Yahoo! Pittsburgh-Altoona one, which is owned and moderated by David J. Williams who is also a member here - the folks have now even figured out the names, regular days on, and 'off days' of each of the 4 persons who work the Pittsburgh East Desk - and that 'rotation' is similar to what is explained above. As I understand it: Kevin - 1st, Hannah - 2nd, Jennifer - 3rd, and for each of their 2 days a week off: "Gary is the other regular, doing 1st on Su/M, 2nd Tu, 3rd W/Th. Normally Monday 2nd Trick is the one where there's a fill-in of some sort." per Josh Hollands on there on March 25, 2011.
The condr injured at Boone was based out of another terminal. I may have met him as he had worked out of Boone at one time, but I can't say I know him.
Some of our yards use a daily mark up. The yard jobs themselves don't have rest days, the board slots have the rest days. When you bid the board, you bid your rest days. People not on their rest days would call a bid recorder phone line and state their preference for the jobs available. You called, for example, on Monday by a certain time to bid Tuesdays jobs. After stating your name, etc you stated the job(s) you wanted. The jobs are assigned by seniority. If you don't get your first choice, maybe you get your second or third. If you can't win any of your preferences or forgot to place a daily bid, they assign you to any unfilled job. On some days there were more jobs than people on the board, any unfilled jobs then went to the extra board. If no extra board available, they would then call people on days off and offer them the open jobs. (Supposed to pay time and a half on your off days. Sometimes you had to fight to get it so I heard. Because of that and the fact the few times I was asked there were people cut off, I always refused.) If they still couldn't fill jobs they start going to nearby terminal extra boards or to the road pool board. Only once while I was working this board do I remember them annulling a job because no one available.
Before the HOS change, the yard had a 22 1/2 hour rule. If you started a second yard job within that time, the second tour of duty was all at time and one half rate. Now with the required 10 hrs off, it's hard to be rested to line up with jobs that are normally 8 hrs apart.
Jeff
Great example Carl. I know a similar system, informally called "sliding" locally (Neenah), is used. Beyond that system the crew callers work their way down the "rested" list on the Extra Board. Some guys with enough seniority "slide" from one job to another to take advantage of the way the contract works rest days. They will try to get a longer rest period, which I can't entirely blame them for. However, a close friend was constantly bumped in this method because he doesn't have too much seniority and ended up with 9 days off in a row. Sounds nice but he almost didn't make the "guarantee" for the month - through no fault of his own. After he came back to work a bunch the guys tried blaming things being messed up on him.
Dan
Thanks for that example of "phasing" or staggering, Carl. Viewed that way, it makes more sense than the seeming random pattern of some of the others. Although, that's probably easier to achieve when there are multiple shifts at the same location like that, as contrasted with just a 1-shift operation all by itself someplace - such as:
Back in 1977, I was doing a lot of field work at the Procter & Gamble Paper Products Co. / "Charmin" plant at Mehoopany, PA - next to the former Lehigh Valley RR main line, about 40 miles NW of Scranton, PA, and way out in the country. Around the 4th of July the ConRail crew that was assigned to switch the plant (the locomotive was assigned there 24x7 except for maintenance and inspections, etc.) complained to me that they weren't going to have any days off over the holiday weekend - even though they'd been working that job for over 90 successive days straight by then !
Paul, it's usually a fairly understandable thing. I'll go through the way things were when I retired for the jobs I worked on. We had three car retarder operators per shift, and all three worked with the same days off. I worked days, and was off Monday and Tuesday. The second shift was off Tuesday and Wednesday, and third shift was off Thursday and Friday. The relief jobs worked days on Monday, afternoons on Tuesday and Wednesday, nights on Thursday and Friday, and were off from 0700 Saturday to 0700 Monday (big whoop...they had Saturdays and Sundays off, but half of Saturday was already shot with getting rest). Tuesday morning was not covered by any job--that was the time during which the hump was shut down for scheduled maintenance.
Jeff, that's somewhat good news, anyway...thanks!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
zugmann snipped] So a relief job will work 2pm Tuesday and Wednesday to cover the work that needs done. Then it may have 2 days off, then maybe works 7am Sat and Sun to cover the rest days for the regular first shift M-F yard job. Unlike the extra list, a relief job has regular start times and days off. But the starting times can be varied throughout the week. . . . Again, local contracts vary, and none of them make much sense... So, did you re-do the math, or make some bartender very happy??
So, did you re-do the math, or make some bartender very happy??
The barmaids were nice - but not quite that deserving ! There was about 15 of us, so we went around the group again and adjusted the contribution shares to be roughly proportional to what each person or couple consumed, then called it "Good enough !" (In the field of mathematics called "Numerical Methods", this is called something like "successive approximations converging onto a unique solution"; in engineering, it's called an "iterative solution"; most of the rest of the world calls it something like "trial and error" . . . ) Although, I may have heard at least one person who thought we should just keep ordering until all the money was used up . . .
I don't know anything about what happened at Boone. I'm about to get called to go west, and just turned the forums on. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the other Boone area poster. He was bringing in the train I was lined up for until they ran one around another.
About the HOS, don't forget that Canadian HOS may be different than US HOS. One poster who's from and railroaded in Canada on another forum said that until relatively recently, Canada didn't have HOS, at least as we in the US know it.
Phone rang, gotta go.
Bruce, I was Operating Department, and yes, with the current regulations it's impossible to start another tour of duty with only eight hours' rest. I'm not sure who all is covered under Hours of Service regulations, but I know that signal maintainers are among them.
On a slightly scarier note, I just saw where a UP conductor was injured by a passing train in Boone, Iowa, and had to be life-flighted somewhere. Since we have a couple of folks--and at least one conductor--who regularly post from Boone, I'm hoping that it's not anyone of our--or their--acquaintance.
Paul_D_North_Jr"We've got a little problem here. This tab is for $29 and change - maybe $35 with the tip - but . . . [wait for it] . . . . . . you all gave me $98 !" Well, there was quite a difference between the 'country price' in Upper Bucks Co. and the 'city price' (Philly) for some of those beers ! - Paul North.
[wait for it]
. . .
. . . you all gave me $98 !"
Well, there was quite a difference between the 'country price' in Upper Bucks Co. and the 'city price' (Philly) for some of those beers !
I was in a similar situation at a group dinner (at a brew pub, no less). One tab, about 12-15 people. Despite the fact that the average individual bill was in the $13-15 range, it seemed that nobody had anything smaller than a $20 bill. That waitress got quite a tip.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
zugmann A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs.
A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs.
This brings up a difference in terminology I have noticed since I started reading TRAINS regularly in 2005. In Canada, what you describe above would be called a swing shift job or a swing shift if you were in a hurry. In what I have read, in the US a swing shift seems to be what would be a 1600-23:59 job or a 2nd Trick shift.
And yes, my Dad used to complain about losing part of one day off for sleeping when he had to work swing jobs. But, he did have one job for a while where he worked a 3rd Trick dispatching job followed by a 2nd trick job in the same calendar day. He then got 3 calendar days off each week. After he got home from the 3rd Trick job he would say he had to "sleep fast" before he went back to word at 16:00.
With these new "hours of work" laws I'm not even sure a thing like that is even possible for someone like yourself who is in a running trade. We will have to wait for Carl and see if it would still be possible for a non-op to do it.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Your relief-job terminology was accurate for my experience, too, Zug. I was on a job that worked one day, two afternoons, and two nights every week...made for lousy sleep and a short weekend.
As for your question, Dan, there probably is no real operational reason for lighting these signals, just the railroad's preference. Given CN's history of signal problems over the past 20 or more years (not necessarily connected with WC), I'd suggest that they're thinking that a lighted signal is easier to see a failure on than a dark one. (I should explain that IC is the CN predecessor that had lots of problems with false clears and other defects.)
Maybe "relief" isn't the proper term, but it is what I (and some others) use. The job isn't technically "relieving" anyone in the traditional sense, but anyhow:
A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs. For example, a regular 2nd shift yard job may work Thurs-Monday @ 2pm. It's rest days are Tuesday and Wednesday. So a relief job will work 2pm Tuesday and Wednesday to cover the work that needs done. Then it may have 2 days off, then maybe works 7am Sat and Sun to cover the rest days for the regular first shift M-F yard job. Unlike the extra list, a relief job has regular start times and days off. But the starting times can be varied throughout the week. and ( for us) they usually manage to arrange it to screw you on your days off - making you work 2nd or 3rd shift before your rest days, then 1st shift after. So you end up "losing" 8-16 hours off time.
Well, you don't really lose it, but you don't get it. Always been a pet peeve of mine out here. Your rest time is shorter than all the other regualr jobs.
Long term absences are covered by the extra list, but usually end up being put up for bid so anyone can grab it. Vacations are the same way - anyone in the terminal can bid it, no matter what their current assignment is. Again, local contracts vary, and none of them make much sense...
zugmann [snipped] Unfortunately it looks like the only choices I have are the extra list or a lousy relief job. It's kind of like picking which eye you want poked.
And since this is the "Lounge", it's an appropriate place to tell this true little story, about:
"The Differences Between Men and Women" (cont'd):
This past Saturday afternoon, after my wife's class 2-semester class to be a "Sustainable Building Advisor" at a local community college completed their presentations, received their "Certificates of Completion", and had a catered lunch, at the suggestion of the lead instructor we all adjoined to a local 'roadhouse' for a beer and further "socialization". It was all put on a common tab, and after about a convivial hour everyone decided to head out and chipped in towards the bill. The instructor got the check, looked at it, counted the money, and then said:
"We've got a little problem here. This tab is for $29 and change - maybe $35 with the tip - but . . .
CNW 6000 Thought I'd take a break from lurking to ask another signal question. CN has been "activating" signals on spur tracks and sidings off the main that previously had been "dark" unless occupied. What, if anything does that mean operationally? I know the progress of activating ATCS has been progressing further south from the north end of the Superior Sub...but I don't think it has reached Stevens Point (or the Neenah Sub) yet. Would this have anything to do with that?
Thought I'd take a break from lurking to ask another signal question.
CN has been "activating" signals on spur tracks and sidings off the main that previously had been "dark" unless occupied. What, if anything does that mean operationally? I know the progress of activating ATCS has been progressing further south from the north end of the Superior Sub...but I don't think it has reached Stevens Point (or the Neenah Sub) yet. Would this have anything to do with that?
For us. there is no operational difference between constant lit and approach lit signals.
Well, come off of vacation and I'm bumped. So I get to enjoy another day not at work. Unfortunately it looks like the only choices I have are the extra list or a lousy relief job. It's kind of like picking which eye you want poked. Ugh. So far no call from the TM yelling at me to mark up (like I'd answer if he would call... )
I so do not want to go back to work.
Link to webpage on the Harsco TRT-909:
http://harscorail.com/products/track-construction-TRT-909.aspx
Link to a page of photos of both a TRT-909 and a BNSF P811:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/mow24.html
Thanks for the correction, Carl: It's hard to tell at 66MPH, while watching the road for idiots on four wheels at the same time!!
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
Thanks for that, Randy--the progress is slow, but steady! Looking forward to observing it myself in a few weeks.
(One minor correction...the big machine is a TRT-909. The P811 is so last decade that BNSF uses it! )
I'm hoping that with the latest grant money from Florida, the work can just keep going beyond Dwight to Joliet. It won't be too successful, though, unless there is a little more second track installed than there has been.
Our trip out for lunch with our nephew was a qualified success...Lilacia Park was past its seasonal prime, but still jaw-dropping and nose-tantalizing. The restaurant I'd wanted to take them to was closed, but Plan B was also good. While we were having dinner, we were treated to the sight of at least four trains and one hailstorm! Fortunately for us, the rain let up when it was time to leave, so we could get back to their car, then (eventually) home.
One of the cars I saw on a westbound manifest this afternoon was WSOR 503149, the Model Railroader 70th-anniversary commemorative RBL. Unfortunately, the graffiti vandals have hit this car fairly extensively.
Carl, had a chance to run I55 up from St Louis on Friday, here's an update on the high-speed project.
Concrete ties are in as far as Bloomington-Normal, the P811 was on the north side of town where I55 rejoins for the trip north. Ballasting was going on south of town, saw two ballast trains and a surface crew. The next two passing tracks north of town had concrete tie flats and an empty rail train parked in them. Noticed one of the grain elevator main-track switches I saw was of the concrete tie variety.
Roger that, Jim! We even found a sign on Lake Street in Oak Park indicating the location of the divide. That's closer to Lake Michigan than it is to us. The Des Plaines River (whose source is in Wisconsin) is about two miles west of this sign, and it's definitely Mississippi-bound. Thanks to the man-made modifications of the way things work around here, even the Chicago River is a few feet lower than Lake Michigan...both it and the Little Calumet River, thanks to the canals, would flow out of Lake Michigan and down into the Des Plaines River.
CShaveRR Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan)
Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan)
http://openwaterchicago.com/2009/11/20/diverting-the-lake-michigan-watershed-a-brief-history-of-the-chicago-canal-system/
Bruce, I hope you're feeling a little better these days!
Around here, the Canadian flooding has been somewhat minimalized by what's going on in the lower Mississippi Valley. Although I think that the worst-case scenario should be prepared for, and properly publicized as such, it sounds like those flooding estimates were really off the mark. If people over the larger area were ordered to evacuate, I wouldn't blame them for being upset!
I am a little surprised at the scant coverage given those fires, though, considering that entire towns were burned out.
It's my understanding (though I'm not sure where I got it) that if it weren't for the levees and spillways in northern Louisiana, the Atchafalaya River would now be the normal course of the Mississippi on its way to the Gulf. I wonder if somewhere there aren't plans for larger bridges for the railroads crossing that river, just in case. (Of course, the time to build the stronger bridges would be now!)
Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan) are back in their beds, flowing lazily, However, the grass in our yard is still growing, and the lilac bushes are fading to green--so I guess this isn't Heaven, after all. We're planning on taking our nephew and his bride out for dinner this afternoon, and are hoping that the weather, the lilacs, and the railroad will all cooperate in making this a fun time for everyone.
Paul_D_North_Jr - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
- not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
Paul, I think you raise some questions that have had real world consequences in southern Manitoba this past couple of weeks.
There has been major flooding in Manitoba recently, and at Portage la Prairie, MB "experts" in the employ of the Provincial Government determined that it would be necessary to breach a dike at that location to have a "controlled flood". It did work as advertised, but the experts had forecast a flood area of 200 sq. km., and in fact the flooded area turned out to be 3.4 sq. km. Being skilled in the theoretical doesn't always mean you are going to be skilled in the workings of the real world. Needless to say, this upset a lot of people unnecessarily.
In other news, in northern Alberta CN has been able to reopen their Slave Lake Sub., incrementally. I haven't heard of total damage estimates yet, and I haven't heard if they have yet got all the way to Hay River, NWT. As you may have read in the Cafe, I haven't been feeling that great lately, and on Tuesday I didn't read the TRAINS Newswire section at all. I had been watching local media here to get reports on damage to the CN line, when it turns the Newswire folks were all over the situation like white on rice. Kudo's to them.
Paul_D_North_Jr In the Penn State "Rail Transportation Engineering" program flyer linked above, "C E 310 Surveying" for 3 credits is scheduled in Semester 5, then followed by "RTE 302 RR Track Location, Const, & Maint" for 3 more credits in Semester 6, all of which makes sense to me. zug, integration = "the area under the curve" is pretty fundamental to a lot of engineering, esp. structural and energy-related. Fortunately, it's usually polynomial equations, not logarithmic, trigonometric, exponential, etc. And I don't see Differential Equations there anyplace, so clearly this curriculum is not research-oriented, but more practical - be glad for that ! zug's dilemma illustrates why this situation ought to be a perfect application for learning 'on-line' and/ or via video recordings, etc. (with appropriate safeguards for confirming identity, etc.). A lot could be done by tutorials, with just a 1 or 2 times a month in-person class or meeting with the Prof., and the Prof. and/ or a good Teaching Asst. with scheduled office hours or availability, including nights and weekends, for coaching, tutoring, helping over the rough spots, etc. But I suspect that the accredited universities are justifiably wary of giving up their franchise and claims for high tuition income to cover all the admin. and ivy-covered halls that could be mostly rendered redundant by such a transition . . . I wouldn't mind putting those kinds of courses together if I could find a way to get paid for it . . . Johnny, that's true of me, too - it took another 'go-round' and at a slower pace along with some practical applications to better comprehend some of the more abstract topics. - Paul North.
In the Penn State "Rail Transportation Engineering" program flyer linked above, "C E 310 Surveying" for 3 credits is scheduled in Semester 5, then followed by "RTE 302 RR Track Location, Const, & Maint" for 3 more credits in Semester 6, all of which makes sense to me.
zug, integration = "the area under the curve" is pretty fundamental to a lot of engineering, esp. structural and energy-related. Fortunately, it's usually polynomial equations, not logarithmic, trigonometric, exponential, etc. And I don't see Differential Equations there anyplace, so clearly this curriculum is not research-oriented, but more practical - be glad for that !
zug's dilemma illustrates why this situation ought to be a perfect application for learning 'on-line' and/ or via video recordings, etc. (with appropriate safeguards for confirming identity, etc.). A lot could be done by tutorials, with just a 1 or 2 times a month in-person class or meeting with the Prof., and the Prof. and/ or a good Teaching Asst. with scheduled office hours or availability, including nights and weekends, for coaching, tutoring, helping over the rough spots, etc. But I suspect that the accredited universities are justifiably wary of giving up their franchise and claims for high tuition income to cover all the admin. and ivy-covered halls that could be mostly rendered redundant by such a transition . . . I wouldn't mind putting those kinds of courses together if I could find a way to get paid for it . . .
Johnny, that's true of me, too - it took another 'go-round' and at a slower pace along with some practical applications to better comprehend some of the more abstract topics.
There's so much cool stuff on sites like youtube now. Maybe it was around in my college days - I don't know. If it was, I never thought to use it. And you also touch upon the biggest problem I had (and probably many others) in math classes - the "why". Instead of just memorizing formulas (which unfortunately some of my profs had me do), how about explaining the practicality of the formula?
To me, a bunch of random numbers on a paper are just that. But use real world examples and I can understand it better. My stats professor did that, and I always got all As on his tests.
Hey, while web surfing, I came across this interesting little tidbit:
(from KOA website)
For railroad buffs or kids at heart you’ll find meticulously restored cabooses from some of the Nations historic railway lines, such as Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe and Boston & Maine, dotted throughout the KOA system. All aboard!
WOOT!! WOOT!!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Probably. I blew a brake line.
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