Larry, thanks for that interesting link. And yes Nance, you last full sentence pretty much covered the problem. Also there may be deadlines to leave the loading point and that is how things were set up when the cars had to depart.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Hi!
Recently, I waited (and waited! ) for an intermodal. Why is it that I saw so many single stacked? Wouldn't it be more efficient to double stack all they could? (It did have quite a number of doubles on.) Or, is this bc of previous/ future stops, and that prob. they took some off before my location and/or were going to load some on top after it went by me? Thanks!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
NASA has some interesting pictures of Slave Lake and environs, and there's a link on that page to images from CTV.
Those of us who live in the northeast US (and SE Canada) sometimes don't appreciate the magnitude of such fires - if we have something over 10 acres we're shocked - these fires are burning dozens of square miles.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The line to Hay River, N.W.T Canada, has been shut down by a massive wildfire at Slave Lake, AB. This line has been the topic of several threads on this forum in recent years as Hay River is the northern most point physically connected to the North American rail system. CN's Slave Lake Sub. had to be shut down due to the fire. Although it is too early to get complete damage assessments they already know one bridge has been badly damaged.
CN's website mentions that alternative routes may be used to get to Hay River, but my RR atlas shows the only alternate route has portions that are out of service. My atlas dates from 2007 so I'm not sure what CN has been doing up there in recent years.
Half of the town of Slave Lake, pop 7000, has been burned. It is amazing to see videos of modern multi-storey buildings with flames coming out of every window. So far the City Hall, the Library, and a mall have burned. They are not sure about the Hospital and the High School.. There have been numerous homes and small business burned. There were a number of explosions when a gas station burned.
I will let you know when I hear more.
Link to web page about Amtrak's PORTAL swing bridge just east of Newark, NJ, which has details about its operation and schedule, pending its replacement which is now underway. In brief, it isn't opened during "rush hours"; outside of those, it is opened "on signal" - according to this article, that's almost daily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Bridge#Operation
See also the official Portal Bridge website at: http://www.portalbridgenec.com/about-the-project.html
- Paul North.
zardoz blue streak 1: CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge?? There was a bridge tender there up until a few (?) years ago. I used to listen to the scanner for the trains calling the tender for permission as a method for knowing when the trains were at particular locations. The trains no longer have to call for permission. When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher. There are flashing strobes and warning tones as the bridge starts to move but the delay from start of warning to bridge moving is maybe 30 seconds. It takes about 2 minutes for the bridge to open or close by my estimation (based on time delay pictures). I just didn't know if it made sense to have it automated to close based on a system like signalling or if it was all manually moved subject to reading the CTC board on proximity of trains.
blue streak 1: CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher. There are flashing strobes and warning tones as the bridge starts to move but the delay from start of warning to bridge moving is maybe 30 seconds. It takes about 2 minutes for the bridge to open or close by my estimation (based on time delay pictures). I just didn't know if it made sense to have it automated to close based on a system like signalling or if it was all manually moved subject to reading the CTC board on proximity of trains.
There is a sign with a number to call for boats to remind a dispatcher that the bridge needs to open (basically what it says). I know there are cameras showing the bridge to (presumably) the dispatching center in Homewood.
Dan
Thanks for that link, zug. An aphorism from many years ago, still true today: "A society that does not regard its plumbers as highly as its philosophers will have neither good philosophy nor good plumbing."
Here's a link to Mike Rowe's senate testimony from May 11th.
Plenty of relevance to today's railroads and the shortages they will face in the upcoming years.
I just wish I was more mechanically inclined... or would have went to a technical school instead of wasting money away on a college degree.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
blue streak 1 CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher.
CShaveRR I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
The Michigan Shore Railroad (ex-C&O) crosses the Grand River in Grand Haven on a drawbridge that has been around forever (originally owned by GTW). Used to have a bridgetender (and yes, I got "rides"), but C&O or CSX (who took ownership after GTW abandoned their line) converted it so that the crew would stop and close it for passage of their trains, then reopen it when they were over. Don't know whether that's still the process. There used to be substantial barge traffic on the river, but that dried up after the gravel pits closed. The drawbridge is opened nowadays mostly for pleasure craft.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR The other one we was was in Fond du Lac, just south of the CN's yard in North Fond du Lac. No tracks going over it any more (it might be part of a bike path); when both the ex-CNW and ex-SOO lines in the area came under control of the Wisconsin Central, this line was abandoned. (Further north on this line, the drawbridge at Oshkosh, in the process of being replaced, is another example of a multiple-span Whipple truss--with two such trusses forming the swing span.)
The other one we was was in Fond du Lac, just south of the CN's yard in North Fond du Lac. No tracks going over it any more (it might be part of a bike path); when both the ex-CNW and ex-SOO lines in the area came under control of the Wisconsin Central, this line was abandoned. (Further north on this line, the drawbridge at Oshkosh, in the process of being replaced, is another example of a multiple-span Whipple truss--with two such trusses forming the swing span.)
The bridge you reference south of Shops sits still "intact", at least to fleeting drive-by inspections. No tracks approach or depart that position yet curiously there are yellow/red boards on either side facing away from the bridge. I wonder why? To my knowledge there is no bike path on that bridge-yet.
Speaking of the Oshkosh bridge...I have a question for those that know more than I do regarding control methods. It seems that the train is about a block away when the bridge closes. Is this process automatic? Maybe like the signal system "sees" the train and activates the bridge in similar fashion to a grade crossing? Or is it dispatcher controlled? Any reason why one method or the other would be used?
I managed to catch WSOR 3811 on its second revenue run yesterday. 4 of the 5 units slated to be rebuilt have now been done but only the odd numbered "Mexi-wrecks" are operable currently. 3809, -11, and -13. 3810 has broken a crankshaft apparently much in the same fashion that the -13 recently did but -13is now repaired and -10 should be shortly. The only one yet to be resurrected is -12. The paint shop at Horicon should be reopened by now or should be shortly and word has it that the 5 "new" 38's should be the first items through the shop followed by the MP15s.
Back to lurking...
I've heard the story before, and could look it up. Yes, I tumbled as soon as you said "hybrids".
And speaking of one of those, this afternoon, while Pat was guiding another tour around Lilacia Park (you and Ricki would love it now, Johnny!), I was up on the station platform (caught the Two Amigos with the West Chicago local, and an inbound stacker in the half-hour or so that I was there), when a wedding party exited the park. Most of them climbed into the illegally-parked limo by the park entrance, but the bride, groom, and another guy came up to the tracks and proceeded to pose for and take some of their wedding shots! As soon as they stepped off the platform onto the right-of-way I was on the phone, but couldn't get the good guys there in time. I've got the license number of that big white limo, if they wish to pursue it.
No, Jeff; I did not have to reread it. As I remarked, the incident of the people higher up who cost the UP a lot of money brought to mind the reputed incident in which a conductor had to appeal for help since he could not figure out what to do when one of his cars was damaged. I don't think that Carl has tumbled to it yet, but I hope Paul North is chuckling.
Johnny
Deggesty CShaveRR: Deggesty: CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation. Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car? Not sure what you're asking, Johnny. The car should be suited to its contents, at least to the type of content, and I don't believe that a shipper would be allowed to knowingly load something into a car that would be likely to destroy it (sand into an Airslide covered hopper, for example). As to improper loading of the car (overloading is probably the most likely thing to cause structural damage, or improper securement of the load), it's the shipper's responsibility to properly load the car, and it is the train crew's prerogative to refuse a car that is obviously improperly loaded. Carl, I was thinking of live contents (well-known hybrids) that are known to kick, and could kick part of the side of the car off--and could even hang outside afterwards.It is possible that the situation would exceed the knowledge and thinking ability of the crew immediately concerned with the problem, and an appeal for help in solving the matter would be made to the next higher level, trusting that the man at the next level would be able to join in the effort to protect the company property.
CShaveRR: Deggesty: CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation. Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car? Not sure what you're asking, Johnny. The car should be suited to its contents, at least to the type of content, and I don't believe that a shipper would be allowed to knowingly load something into a car that would be likely to destroy it (sand into an Airslide covered hopper, for example). As to improper loading of the car (overloading is probably the most likely thing to cause structural damage, or improper securement of the load), it's the shipper's responsibility to properly load the car, and it is the train crew's prerogative to refuse a car that is obviously improperly loaded.
Deggesty: CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation. Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car?
CShaveRR
In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation.
Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car?
Not sure what you're asking, Johnny. The car should be suited to its contents, at least to the type of content, and I don't believe that a shipper would be allowed to knowingly load something into a car that would be likely to destroy it (sand into an Airslide covered hopper, for example). As to improper loading of the car (overloading is probably the most likely thing to cause structural damage, or improper securement of the load), it's the shipper's responsibility to properly load the car, and it is the train crew's prerogative to refuse a car that is obviously improperly loaded.
Sounds like someone's been reading a "Treasury of Railroad Folklore" again.
Jeff
CShaveRR Deggesty: CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation. Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car? Not sure what you're asking, Johnny. The car should be suited to its contents, at least to the type of content, and I don't believe that a shipper would be allowed to knowingly load something into a car that would be likely to destroy it (sand into an Airslide covered hopper, for example). As to improper loading of the car (overloading is probably the most likely thing to cause structural damage, or improper securement of the load), it's the shipper's responsibility to properly load the car, and it is the train crew's prerogative to refuse a car that is obviously improperly loaded.
Deggesty CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation. Yes, that (or however it is listed in any rulebook) would certainly cover the matter. Would it also give instruction as to how to respond when the contents of a car has caused damage to the structure of the car?
I checked out the bridge at Denison, IA that I previously linked to. It is a Whipple design. There is also one at South Missouri Valley, IA. I forgot to check the one at Arlington, NE over the Elkhorn River. That'll have to wait.
CShaveRR In my original rule book, there was a general rule E (two rules ahead of Rule G), which read "In case of danger to the Company's property, employees must unite to protect it." I think the dispatcher should have deferred to the crew's assessment of the situation.
Those were bolt machines and PDN got the manufacturer right. Surprised to see them used on bridge work. Hydraulic or Pneumatic drills and wrenches are so much easier to use on bridges.
Probably used to remove vertical camcar, domehead and timber screws (don't see the bevel (rt. angle) head gearbox to remove track bolts from anglebars.....)....for guard timbers, etc. on the deck?
Edit: Nothing else had the proper bit or socket maybe?
Just a little late....Been travellin. Back to Iowa Sunday.
PDN: Somebody wanted to know why you weren't at Lakeville.
Yes, Johnny, the pictures have been on the Forum at least once.
Forgot to mention finding a couple more of those charmin' Whipple truss bridges on our trip yesterday. The folks at Trains are probably very familiar with the one in Wauwatosa, which takes the old C&NW main line over the old Milwaukee road west out of town. It was built for two tracks, but I think that part of the line has been single-tracked in the past few years.
My niece sent this to me.
The Good news:It was a normal day in Sharon Springs , Kansas , when a Union Pacific crew boarded a loaded coal train for the long trek to Salina .The Bad news:Just a few miles into the trip a wheel bearing became overheated and melted, letting a metal support drop down and grind on the rail, creating white hot molten metal droppings spewing down to the rail.The Good news:A very alert crew noticed smoke about halfway back in the train and immediately stopped the train in compliance with the rules.The Bad news:The train stopped with the hot wheel over a wooden bridge with creosote ties and trusses.When crew tried to explain to higher-ups they needed to move the train they were instructed not to move the train because Federal Rules prohibit moving the train when a part is defective. Well okee-dokey then, and the pictures tell the rest. As always the government knows what is best for us.
REMEMBER, RULES ARE RULES! Don't ever let common sense get in the way of a Good disaster !I remember seeing a report on this in a Trains forum a while back, and, at the time, did not think of this corollary--the reactions of the crewmen and the people higher up were the opposite of those of the conductor with the carload of mules and his dispatcher.
REMEMBER, RULES ARE RULES!
Don't ever let common sense get in the way of a Good disaster
I tried to copy the pictures, but it did not work well.
Thanks for the identification of that beastie, Paul!
Jim, the old schoolhouse was pretty neat. I got a couple of old ladies to say what a nice guy I was to chauffeur Pat around to these places and help her with the quilts she makes, etc., etc. So it's a great place! Pat got some interesting and unusual materials there. Nice use of space.
Earlier in the day, we went to the Wisconsin Museum of Quilts and Fiber Arts, which isn't too far from the Schoolhouse. It's currently in an old farmhouse, which severely limits the exhibit space. But when they move into the old barn that's currently being rehabilitated, they'll have at least ten times the space for just exhibits.
The day began at Plymouth, where we visited a quilt store (yes, they liked me there, too) and a couple of bookstores. Between Plymouth and Cedarburg we took a quick trip into North Fond du Lac, where I saw a couple of freight car groups that were new to me: some NOKL covered hoppers with CN logos, and a series of SSAM ore cars with very weathered CN logos, and raised, inward-sloping sides.
After Cedarburg, we went to Mecca (spelled W-a-u-k-e-s-h-a), where I was greeted by none other than Mike Yuhas, who gave me a tour of the advertising department and other business aspects of Kalmbach. (Pat decided to sit this one out, reading some of Kalmbach's magnificent craft magazines in the lobby.) Among the people I met this time were Matt Quandt and Aaron Jors (both familiar names if you check out the regular "Trackside" photo competition here). I also was able to say hi to Andy Cummings, Kat Kube, Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Kevin Keefe, and Terry Thompson, publisher of Model Railroader, who spent a couple of years as a C&NW employee at Proviso back around 1990. Thanks, Mike, and glad to see you've recovered so well!
We then went to Duplainville, where we caught the westbound Empire Builder (headed by Amtrak 509, followed by a pair of P42s), and a northbound CN freight before braving I-94 toward Illinois. We had a marvelous anniversary dinner at Apple Holler while waiting for a nasty-looking storm to pass through the area. Our return to Illinois was "Bleepin' Golden", both due to sweet light and the brilliant double rainbow that accompanied us most of the way along the Tollway.
We got home before dark, and it would appear that Lombard's lilacs are at their peak right about now. If you can't stop to walk through the park, drive by with the windows down!
You're welcome. Here's a link to a better view of a similar machine - just that this one is used for horizontal bolts in the joint bars and the like, instead of for vertical lag screws as those others on the bridge are:
https://www.speedyhire.com/product/8011/geismar-tb2-petrol-coach-screw-m-c/productoverview
See also pages 7 - 10, 17 - 18, and 33 - 35, each inclusive (of 103 pages) of the Geismar 2000 Catalog at this webpage (approx. 2.6 MB in size) for these and other similar possible machines: http://www.haratrading.fi/Geismar.pdf
Thanks, Paul.
James
CShaveRR Hoping Mudchicken has seen something like these, James, because I can't figure them out. They obviously perform a repetitive chore of some sort, probably below the tops of the ties, but I can't imagine what that would be, particularly on a bridge.
Hoping Mudchicken has seen something like these, James, because I can't figure them out. They obviously perform a repetitive chore of some sort, probably below the tops of the ties, but I can't imagine what that would be, particularly on a bridge.
CShaveRRWe traveled north for about two and a half hours this afternoon, and when we got out of the car it was about 25 degrees cooler than when we got in! We had dinner at an Italian restaurant near Plymouth, Wisconsin, tonight, sort of an early celebration of our wedding anniversary. Tomorrow (the actual anniversary) we'll visit quilt shops and museums in Plymouth and Cedarburg, then maybe some trains (Duplainville?) before heading home. The original premise for heading up this way (a predawn viewing of the planetary alignment over Lake Michigan) probably isn't going to happen, due to the weather, but It's been a great trip so far, if for no other reason than that we're escaping early midsummer at home.
I know what you mean about the temperature changes--at our house it was 58 degrees-15 miles west in Lake Geneva it was near 90!!
Did Pat (and/or you) like Ye Olde Schoolhouse?
A very Happy Birthday to Jim!! Hope it's a great one!
The Diner says that it's Cannonball's birthday today. Happy birthday, Jim--must be nice to be where it's dry!
We woke up in time for the planetary spectacle; unfortunately, it was fogged out.
A very Happy Anniversary to Carl and Pat!!
Too bad about the weather
but glad you are having a great trip anyway!!
Hope it gets even better!!
Take care and enjoy!
The "Yellow Things on RR Side" photo linked above appear to be Geismar/ Modern Track Machinery's "Coachscrewing Machines" or similar, which is European-talk for a gas-powered screw (or bolt/ nut) driver and remover. Most likely, the rails on the bridge are held down to the tie plates and bridge timbers with lag screws or similar fasteners (instead of the usual cut track spikes) for greater strength and resistance to pull-out, etc. Instead of installing/ driving those screws with hand tools such as a 'T'-wrench, or even a power tool such as an impact wrench (which requires the worker to be bent over most of the time), a bigger rig such as this is used. At the bottom of the front end is a chuck of the appropriate size and shape, which actually screws the lag screw into the timber, and removes it when needed. Under the engine at the back is a hard-to-see set of double-flanged 'trolley wheels' to enable the machine to balance on and move along the rails - the 'Y'-shaped handles at the front which are held by the worker aid in that.
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