I was up because I was coughing (or perhaps hacking ) in the middle of the night. Most of the conversation about caboose names had taken place after I'd retired for the evening.
By the way, I never heard "crummy" applied to cabooses in my railroad career. I did hear "crumb-box" a few times.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR Can't believe what a crummy turn this discussion has taken!
Can't believe what a crummy turn this discussion has taken!
I knew it was going to be a fight to the death to see who was going to be first to work that word into the thread, but I can't believe poor Carl had to get up at 3:22 AM EDT to do it!
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
WMNB4THRTL Thanks everybody! BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!) Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!!
Thanks everybody!
BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!)
Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!!
It's a hard task to just memorize signal names and indications. Easier if you figure out the system. For example, take your slow approach and approach slow. The second word in each is the action that you must take for the next signal. Slow approach: When the second word is approach, then you are going to be preparing to stop at the next signal. The word in front has to do with the interlocking, switches, etc you are currently going through on your way to the next signal.
Approach slow. The slow is the second word. So you will be reducing your speed to slow for the next signal.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
AgentKidNow why would you call it a Cabin or Waycar when everybody knows it is a Van? At least in Ontario and eastern Canada! Bruce
Nance, John Armstrong's book has a diagram about where you could expect to find which signals. It may make things a bit clearer to you.
Now why would you call it a Cabin or Waycar when everybody knows it is a Van? At least in Ontario and eastern Canada!
cabin is a flippin weird name for a waycar
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
zugmann There's still places I work where 90 is yellow, 45 is yellow, 180 is yellow...
zugmann But "waycar" is a funny name for a cabin.
- Paul North.
CShaveRR Giggles to Jeff! To Nance: "90" is green, "45" is yellow. If you know why, you're doing fine! Johnny, we railroads haven't had any class since CCOR became GCOR. However, when the article about the Falcons that Jeff cited was written, the C&NW's Falcons were shown in the employee timetable with schedules, and designated as first class trains. Whether that was for employee pride or publicity is probably a moot point, because more often than not the schedule was annulled and the train run as an extra--not because they couldn't maintain the ambitious schedule, but so they could run ahead of it!
Giggles to Jeff!
To Nance: "90" is green, "45" is yellow. If you know why, you're doing fine!
Johnny, we railroads haven't had any class since CCOR became GCOR. However, when the article about the Falcons that Jeff cited was written, the C&NW's Falcons were shown in the employee timetable with schedules, and designated as first class trains. Whether that was for employee pride or publicity is probably a moot point, because more often than not the schedule was annulled and the train run as an extra--not because they couldn't maintain the ambitious schedule, but so they could run ahead of it!
I have an ETT for the Iowa Railroad (IRRC. pre Iowa Interstate) from 1982. They show one scheduled freight in each direction. They named their trains the "Vulture." A twist on the CNW's Falcons and a kind of reference to picking the bones of the former RI that had sat mostly dormant for a year or so.
Jeff
There's still places I work where 90 is yellow, 45 is yellow, 180 is yellow...
But "waycar" is a funny name for a cabin.
All the TT&TO rule are gone. No longer do GCOR users need to understand or worry about Right, Class and Direction. The first GCOR still had those rules, but the second (1989) and subsequent editions didn't. Now it's signal indication or track warrants on most lines. Even Amtrak schedules appear in the back of the time table (UP) but have no authority, only given as information.
Interestingly, until recently new UP engines built by GE had a position (blanked out) for a toggle switch marked "Class Lights" on the back cab wall.
Actually, I wanted to earlier give a rousing two thumbs up to Jeff for the line "your CNW is showing"
In the last few months as far as I can tell, from what I read in some Train Order related threads and and in the Rear End Collision thread, as regards modern hiring practices, railroading is a whole new ballgame. The equipment may appear somewhat the same, but how they operate it is entirely different. Far from me to say which is, in whole or in part, better but it is different.
I am increasingly thinking maybe it is time to sit back and just watch it all roll by. History becomes less relevant every day.
jeffhergert CShaveRR: I've mentioned the interlocking signals at Elmhurst before: they give you two different sets of diverging aspects. If you get a "90 in the middle", you'll be going through the mainline crossovers. If you get a "45 on the bottom" it means you're going into the yard (you can't get a clear on the lower light because you're entering the yard and going out of CTC territory). Carl, you're CNW is showing. I bet if I said that to half my coworkers, even some old heads, I'd just get blank stares in return. (I get that a lot anyway, but that's another story.) You hardly ever hear way car anymore when talking about cabooses. Some traditions are starting to fade I guess. Jeff PS, I only know what Carl is saying because it was defined in that Trains' artivle from 1979 about the "Flight of the Falcons."
CShaveRR: I've mentioned the interlocking signals at Elmhurst before: they give you two different sets of diverging aspects. If you get a "90 in the middle", you'll be going through the mainline crossovers. If you get a "45 on the bottom" it means you're going into the yard (you can't get a clear on the lower light because you're entering the yard and going out of CTC territory).
I've mentioned the interlocking signals at Elmhurst before: they give you two different sets of diverging aspects. If you get a "90 in the middle", you'll be going through the mainline crossovers. If you get a "45 on the bottom" it means you're going into the yard (you can't get a clear on the lower light because you're entering the yard and going out of CTC territory).
Carl, you're CNW is showing. I bet if I said that to half my coworkers, even some old heads, I'd just get blank stares in return. (I get that a lot anyway, but that's another story.) You hardly ever hear way car anymore when talking about cabooses. Some traditions are starting to fade I guess.
PS, I only know what Carl is saying because it was defined in that Trains' artivle from 1979 about the "Flight of the Falcons."
Johnny
CShaveRR I've mentioned the interlocking signals at Elmhurst before: they give you two different sets of diverging aspects. If you get a "90 in the middle", you'll be going through the mainline crossovers. If you get a "45 on the bottom" it means you're going into the yard (you can't get a clear on the lower light because you're entering the yard and going out of CTC territory).
WMNB4THRTL [snipped] I guess mostly I'm looking for: life in America, as it related to RR's in the 1930's and '40's; how RRing shaped America; . . . and any other depot info that might be helpful or interesting. . . . Thanks, as always, for any and all help!!
Thanks, as always, for any and all help!!
Nance -
In thinking about this a little further, I remembered that from time to time I ran across nuggets of depot history while looking for something else. Often it seems that a town or county historical society will adopt one and publish a detailed history on it , sometimes also buying it and making it their headquarters, as well as perhaps a Visitor's or Tourist Center, Chamber of Commerce, etc.
So I just put in "depot" and "history" into a plain www.google.com Google Search and got over 55 million items, a good many of which on just the 1st page looked pertinent, such as this one:
http://www.eaglelakedepot.com/DepotBuildingHistory.htm
Then I input "history" and the phrase "railroad station" into an Advanced Google Search, and got over 3 million results, again with many interesting ones on just the 1st page, such as this one:
http://www.tamaquastation.com/history.html
Accordingly, I suggest that there's a treasure trove of info out there waiting to be read . . . Anybody else here have any suggestions for your local or favorite depots ? Such as these for Lansdale, PA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lansdale_(SEPTA_station)
http://planning.montcopa.org/planning/cwp/fileserver,Path,PLANNING/Admin%20-%20Programs/Montgomery_Awards/All_Award_Winners/LDA_2000_Lansdale_Transportation_Center_and_Railroad_Plaza.pdf,assetguid,fee0afe4-2f55-46db-a0166d2430aef927.pdf
Railroads that have signal names like "Slow Clear" have "Slow Speed" defined in their rulebooks. It has nothing to do with flooding or track condition, but everything to do with the configuration of the track. You'll only get a signal like this at a control point (interlocking). You will usually be operating over some low-speed crossovers or around a sharp curve in connection with this signal. These railroads will also have "medium speed" defined, and you would be able to get "Medium Clear" and "Medium Approach" signals. These are usually good for diverging branch lines or higher-speed crossovers. Quite often the signal indication will say to proceed at (Slow/Medium) speed through interlocking limits...after your train has gone through the limits you can resume your authorized speed.
On the western railroads, you don't have "medium" or "slow" speeds. You can get a "Diverging Clear" indication that looks like either a Slow Clear or a Medium Clear, but in either case you "Proceed over diverging route at prescribed speed". I've mentioned the interlocking signals at Elmhurst before: they give you two different sets of diverging aspects. If you get a "90 in the middle", you'll be going through the mainline crossovers. If you get a "45 on the bottom" it means you're going into the yard (you can't get a clear on the lower light because you're entering the yard and going out of CTC territory).
No trains or adverse signals ahead, but sharp curves in the diverging route ?
OK, so I'm diving into all this but I have a question:
For 'slow clear,' that seems a bit contradictory bc if it is clear up ahead, why would you have to go slowly? Would it be, among other things, something like poor track conditions (i.e. flooding?) I'm sure there are other reasons, as well.
Thanks again, Paul and everybody.
Just noticed over on Cher's "Today in History" thread that it would be the 50th anniversary of the abandonment of the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin Railroad through the western suburbs of Chicago. Perhaps it could have survived in some form if it had managed to hold on for another ten years, perhaps not. As it is, it's fairly amazing that it was able to survive so long as just a power-line right-of-way before becoming the Illinois Prairie Path (which had to struggle against NIMBYs for a while before proving its value to the community).
I'd like nothing more than to be able to take a commemorative bike ride to Wheaton or Maywood today, but we have another wet and stormy one out there.
Nance, it looks like you're having some amazing luck on Amazon! Not sure I'd trust Wikipedia after some of the tales I've heard recently.
WMNB4THRTL Second, anyone know of on-line resources of info, as I'm on austerity budget right now, so buying more books might not happen for a while (beyond the caboose one coming from Amz.)? Only ones I really know of are this one and Wikipedia.
Second, anyone know of on-line resources of info, as I'm on austerity budget right now, so buying more books might not happen for a while (beyond the caboose one coming from Amz.)? Only ones I really know of are this one and Wikipedia.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
If I really had da clout I would be out harvesting a few more good freights, instead of working on a book while it pours outside. I sent off a partial revision this morning, just to show I'm accomplishing something. I want to be done by the middle of next week.
We had over three inches of rain between late last night and mid-morning--a minor incursion into our basement, but that was quickly taken care of. It was apparently worse elsewhere--a few scoots were delayed on our line by power lines fallen over the tracks by Proviso (probably a jam in the yard so they couldn't open up a track and bypass the main...I'm sure they thought of that, 'cause I did!). BNSF also had some weather-related delays.
But I'm impressed, Paul--ya done good!
WOW-- that's amazing, Paul! Congrats on the good luck!! As per the Rochelle report, maybe Carl's 'clout' rubbed off on you, or something like that?!
Thanks to everyone here for the continuing and informative posts from your corner of the world ! (even if not always acknowledged) Today it's my turn, in a way:
Normally lunch time next to MP 32 on the NS Reading Line here on the southwestern side of Allentown, PA (at about these Lat./ Long. coords., per the ACME Mapper 2.0 application: N 40.56113 W 75.48452 ) is pretty dull - sometimes no trains, usually only 1. But today was by far and away the busiest ever, as follows:
About 10 minutes after I park, I hear a horn in the western distance. A few minutes later I see a headlight above the weeds - can't tell which track it's on, might just be the afternoon local H-something passing by EB. Then a second headlight appears to the right of it - EB on the normally WB track - and another horn sequence sounds for the 31st St. SW grade crossing. Now this is unusual and getting interesting - out of the car ! Yep, it's 2 trains side by side, and both moving right smartly. Sure enough, the one on the left = normal EB track is the local, and I get 2 toots in return for my "highball" as he rumbles by about 30 MPH. Only a few cars pass, though, before the other train comes between us - the usual early afternoon EB RoadRailer. It has what has to be a full measure of trailers - including some reefers, because they had fuel tanks down underneath - at close to track speed of 50 MPH, but the local is gone by the time the RR finishes passing. Well, that'll tie up both blocks on the 2 tracks for a while - back in the car to work on lunch, probably won't see anything else here today.
About 10 minutes later I hear a rumble, and see a headlight from the other direction - a WB manifest freight on the proper WB track, led by 2 Dash 9-40's and an SD70 (I think) trailing. It's moving pretty good on the average +0.5% grade, maybe 30 MPH, and accelerating a little bit - it must have been waiting at CP BURN 3 miles east for that EB RoadRailer to clear, and then took off WB as soon as it did. I look closer at the cars now because of Carl, and see a smallish tank car with the reporting marks "ARSX 3150"* along with the usual assortment of other cars. Presently it passes, and the heat and quiet return.
*ARSX = "Sunoco, Inc. (R&M)" [R&M = Refining & Marketing] - see: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=353580
After about another 10 minutes, another horn, and another EB headlight on the EB track. This time it's an intermodal with a mix of double- and single-stacks and some empty wells, and there are some brand-new bright white "J.B. HUNT INTERMODAL" boxes on it. But what really catches my eye is near the end - 2 longish 53 ft. (?) containers are single-stacked in well cars that are evidently too short for them. The leading end of the box is down in the well, but the trailing end is up on the back end's cross member or deck, and the whole box is slanted forward and down a couple of degrees - kind of reminded me of a surfboard in the back bed of a pick-up truck !
Well, back to lunch. After a few more minutes I next hear a funny rhythmic sound over that way - I look up and a track patrolman is going by in a hi-rail pick-up truck WB on the WB track at about 20 MPH. I finish lunch, start the car, and go to leave - and see yet another hi-rail pick-up truck about 1/4 mile east down by the I-78 overpass ! It seems the 2 fellows in it are inspecting the Film-Tech turnout - because they don't have any tools out - and shortly get back in and also head west on the WB track as I pass by them on the 25 MPH frontage road (Industrial Ave.).
So there you have it - about an entire week's worth (for me) of trains and rail vehicles in about 40 minutes - I'll take that !
Hope you all have similar experiences sometime soon !
You're quite welcome, Nance.
That summary is helpful. Let me think about it and see what I can find and remember - some on-line, some not. Don't forget the local library and Inter-Library Loan, which is free or minimal cost - way less expensive than buying books !
For signals: See Al Krug's explanation of same here:
http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/signals/signals.htm
I need to retrieve my former list of 'bookmarks' or 'Favorites', which I was smart enough to save when my computer was replaced - I think i had 4 or 5 good signal websites there !
One was this interactive quiz game:
http://deltareum.com/signals.htm and then http://deltareum.com/sq.htm
In looking for it, I also found this, which you (and others here) might also enjoy:
The "Unofficial" Hoboken Engineer's Training PageUpdated 10/18/10
http://www.ble272.org/Rules_department.htm
That oughta keep you out of trouble for a few weeks . . .
Thanks, Paul! Isn't that one of the most annoying things?! UGH!!
I guess mostly I'm looking for: life in America, as it related to RR's in the 1930's and '40's; how RRing shaped America; baggage cars around that time (what they typically hauled, etc); caboose info; the importance of RRs in US today, and any other depot info that might be helpful or interesting. Probably there's some more 'stuff' I'm forgetting at the moment, but that will get this started for now.
PS I'm still confused on all the different signals, what they all mean, etc, so if anyone knows of a fairly easy/simple way to learn all that, it would be most welcome/helpful!
WMNB4THRTL [snipped] Second, anyone know of on-line resources of info, as I'm on austerity budget right now, so buying more books might not happen for a while (beyond the caboose one coming from Amz.)? Only ones I really know of are this one and Wikipedia.
What or any subjects in particular are you looking for ? (I had a lengthy general list put together last night, then lost it all when I opened a new Window or something . . . )
in the meantime, for a fun and informative general railroad 'fix", try reading (now-retired) BNSF locomotive engineer Al Krug's "Tales from the Krug" - there's about 60 or 70 of his photo/ text essays there - at: http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rrpictale.htm
Thanks, Larry! I'll give that a try for sure!
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