Gee, thanks guys; very interesting!!
I have more questions:
1.) When a RR decides to abandon their tracks, do they usually tear them up or leave them for a while to see if they come back into use, etc? I think there could be issues of upkeep (theft prevention), vandalism, liability, among possibly others? However, if they or another RR wanted to use them, it would be very costly to lay it all out again.
2.) Also, is it standard to set the brakes on both ends of a car? I thought it was one end or the other but recently encountered being told to do both. Would this be due to length of train, on an incline, etc or not bc IIRC, the rulebook says to do _____ but I don't remember it giving qualifications on it. I think it's 10% of cars.
3.) In the case of a hot journalbox, what is the SOP? I mean, I imagine, stop the train, check it, but does the car have to be set out? Can it be cooled a bit, serviced and then continue on its way? If so, what does 'servicing' it involve? Does it vary per the situation or...?
Appreciate any help with these.
PS Carl, I know of at least one current rulebook that states that torpedoes will be carried in the loco.
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Carl, as to relations at work, in general I had good relations with most of the people I interfaced with (there were a very few whom I would rather not have dealt with, but I looked upon it as their problem), whether they were in my area or in another area. Each one in my area had a particular responsibility, but most of us could help someone else in the area.
Working in Stores, I also interfaced with many customers. Some, I could ask for information about their needs, and others--they did not want to be bothered, even if they could make life easier in their own areas of work. Some would even volunteer information or ask if some change could be made in our procedures. I especially appreciated it when a process engineer would tell me of an upcoming change in a process that would make a great change in the usage of this gas or that chemical. And, I could ask for help from this man or that man whose work seemingly had no relation to mine--such as the time we received a drum of ammoniun hydroxide that was brought out in a non-refrigerated truck on a warm day; the truck was filled with NH4OH vapor, and I was not able to drive a forklift into the truck because of my beard (I had been given a waiver by my manager because Ricki really liked seeing me with my beard, so I was not qualified on respirator wear). I had no trouble at all when I asked another man who was respirator-qualified to take the pallet off the truck, because he and I had a good relationship.
Johnny
Johnny, a local distribution truck may have had several grades of fuel in it, compartmentized, so it wouldn't shift so much.
I believe tenders did have baffles. Tank cars, however, do not, probably because they need to be inspected more often.
Yes, I handled the loads, but it was part of the job, so I miss that aspect no more or less than I do the rest of the job (truth here: yes, sometimes...I miss the amenities, such as access to car characteristic records, equipment traces, train-movement information, and the like; I miss some of the interaction with the people I worked with--I was finally getting some respect around there!--but no, I don't miss having to go to work and spend eight hours or more at a time there, now that I've had the taste of freedom).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Carl, did not tenders have baffles in the tanks to reduce sloshing?
Do you miss handling less-than-full tank cars? From what you wrote, you did have a good handle on dealing with them.
One of the elders in the church in Reform was a Chevron distributor. We never discussed the handling of a less-than-full load, but I am sure that he knew the proper way, for (so far as I know) he always came home safely.
And, I wonder just how full the tank was on the truck that turned turtle on the right angle turn in front of our house when I was growing up. Our house was perhaps 100 feet from the turn and we stayed put; the lady who lived directly across the street from where the truck ended up simply went to visit one of her sisters, who lived about two miles away..
Jeff, I can vouch for the "quiet cab" portion of the problems with torpedoes. Just before they were removed from the rules, or banned, or whatever, our rules (or instructions, or whatever) called for torpedoes to be placed in pairs, one on each rail.
Nance, the "kick" from tank cars is something I can attest to firsthand, because nothing could set a tank car to sloshing like a manually-controlled retarder! My policy (a little more specific than the rules, which only called for the shove to stop while we were handling them) was to stop placarded loads in each of my retarders, just to make sure that the operators of the group retarders could handle them. I'd call attention to some of the loads once I saw how they were behaving, so they'd know what they had to do to slow them down properly.
Pressurized cars weren't a problem and full liquid loads had little room to move in the car. But all you need is a foot or so of room near the top to generate some serious wave action (if the temperature was just right, frost or dew would form either above or below the line of the load at rest, so you'd know what you were up against. Otherwise, it was purely a guess--I never noticed the sloshing to be peculiar to certain commodities.
So, I'd stop the car in the master retarder, and sometimes it seemed to stop a little too quickly. I'd notice a little kick, and let the car go, and it wouldn't start to roll right away. When it did, it would speed up and slow down, speed up and slow down, and then it would hit my intermediate retarder. Hard stop, release the retarder, and you could actually watch the car roll uphill for a short distance! I'd do what I could to nip a little off the speed of the car when it exited, but sometimes you could see the speed vary all the way down into the classification tracks.
I've also been on locomotives when we've had tank cars bump us a couple of times after a joint or a stop. So yes, Nance, that's for real.
jeffhergert I always seem to be late for some discussions. A third reason would just be the liability from just handling them. (Also a reason you no longer see fusees with spikes on the end of them.) I've heard of cases where improper handling and/or age of the torpedos caused them to go off. Jeff
I always seem to be late for some discussions.
A third reason would just be the liability from just handling them. (Also a reason you no longer see fusees with spikes on the end of them.) I've heard of cases where improper handling and/or age of the torpedos caused them to go off.
Jeff
Another story about growing up in a station. Stations were not required to have torpedoes in their inventory, but for some reason Irricana had one when we moved there. I never actually saw one. I don't remember the backstory, but I guess my brother and me were poking around in stuff and we must have gotten uncomfortably close to where it was. Apparently Dad persuaded the conductor of the next train through to take it off his hands. The conductor told dad he didn't need it as his caboose had its' full compliment, but he figured he could find another conductor who needed one once he got back to Calgary.
So my torpedo story is I never saw a torpedo.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Recently, I was talking with a guy from a major RR and he was telling me about one time when they coupled into a car (cut of cars?) with liquid in it/them. He told about a few violent 'kicks' a bit delayed after this was completed.
Anybody else know about this or have experience with this? It was apparently violent enough to jar them around pretty significantly. I do know a little bit about slop load in terms of like a fire dept. water tanker or milk tanker. It's the same principle, I imagine, but I'm curious about this just the same. TIA.
Yes, thankfully in this case, I think those reports were 'overdone.' So glad it wasn't true! Still so sad.
Like you said Carl, it wasn't a sight obstruction problem. I've seen multiple reports that the gates were working but that they need to verify that the lights were working properly (As of now, there seems to be every indication that they were, from the reports I have seen.)
PS Thanks, Jeff. We were typing at the same time, I think.
Regarding torpedos, there are a few reasons they are no longer used. First, under most conditions trains no longer have to provide flag protection against other trains. Even in dark territory, trains are either operating in their own exclusive authority or if operating in joint limits, at restricted speed looking out for each other.
Second, with the modern "quiet" cabs, there have been cases where the crew didn't here the detonations. Early in my career I've been in two cabs when going over torpedos. The first time was a standard cab, where the condr went out and placed a few for the engr. No problem hearing those! The second time was during an efficiency test with a "comfort" cab. I heard them go off but it was not nearly has noticable has the older cab. (On some engines you have to crack the window a bit to hear if the horn is actually working when pushing the button.)
Only once did I hear of torpedos being used for flagging a train that wasn't a test. In that case a section foreman found a track defect and for some reason couldn't contact the dispatcher by radio or phone. He placed torpedos the proper distance on either side and protected the spot the old fashioned way.
Thankfully, all of the reports I'm seeing this morning say that only two people were killed: the truck driver and the train's conductor. Another report says that an assistant conductor was severely injured when successfully separating the locomotives from the train consist.
I'll be interested in hearing what they found out about the driver (his condition) and the functionality of the crossing signals. A gravel truck with two trailers wouldn't be easy to stop if one weren't prepared to do it, but pictures of the crossing show that visibility is not a problem at all.
Death toll now reported to be three at last check. Praying that's the final number. What a kick in the gut!
Oh no! Now they are saying 4-6 deceased but reports are conflicting, as is so often the case in these types on large-scale incidents.
Amen to that, Nance. I heard that one of the casualties was a well-known and well-liked conductor.
James, I'm not sure of any railroads still operating piggyback trailers. In fact, I think CSX is the only railroad whose name appears on any intermodal boxes of any sort, except for tne NS Triple Crown Roadrailers. (This sentence is based purely on my experience; reports to the contrary would be welcomed.)
Just a brief foray to trackside today, in which time I saw two westbound freights. Naturally, the one that would have been more interesting to me was behind the other one, an empty NORX hopper train. The second train, a manifest, appeared to be gaining on the NORX train at first, but for most of the time they matched speeds perfectly. I can imagine that by the time the locomotives reached Glen Ellyn, they could have been neck-and-neck, and holding. Wonder whether they did that all the way to West Chicago. When I came back from the post office, the signals behind these two trains at Finley Road were both flashing yellow; the one behind the hopper train cleared up first, which means that the manifest hadn't pulled ahead any further than when I'd seen them.
Terrible Amtrak accident in rural northern Nevada today. My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved. So very sad.
I saw this outside the local feed store:
I have seen BNSF cargo containers. Do any railroads still own semi-trailers?
James
Interesting trip on Amtrak yesterday from NYC to New Haven to Hartford. A very few "highlights" from the NYC - NH portion:
- Got caught up in the 2nd of 3 power outages/ low voltage events in the last 3 days, from about 7:15 AM to 8:00 AM Thurs. Reports are that ther 2 on Thurs. were the result of a computer/ software glitch at the Richmond (Phila.) substation. So almost everything out of NY Penn was running about 45 mins. late, including my regional No. 170. Most folks took it in stride, and when the train finally arrived, everyone hustled to get down on the platform, loaded, and underway ASAP. We didn't gain anything or lose much more than that initial 45 mins. The connecting train at New Haven #470 - P42 and 2 coaches - was held for us on the other side of the same platform, both of which were good and smart things to do.
- Saw the Amtrak video on safety and its bomb-sniffing K-9 dogs several times, as well as 1 passing through the Penn Station concourse. Video is very well-done IMHO and informative. Amtrak has over 50 K-9 teams, at least 10 of which can also trace and follow the "scent path" in the air of where an explosive has gone by.
- Good load factors, about 2/3 full, though the rear car (where I was) was less than half. At the forward end in the handicapped space was a bass violin in a thickly padded case - try putting that on an airplane ! Passengers were a real mix from the young with a mom to vacationers traveling to Nantucket to businessmen to college students to retirees. The couple across the aisle from me were astounded at how roomy the train's seats were compared to an airplane !
- Lots of M-O-W and other RR work underway. Saw a track replacement machine working on the NW track - #1 ? - and several miles of track machinery and track prepped for it. A little further on was a surfacing and tamping crew on the southeast track, and there were numerous inspections, small crews working on wires, utilities, drainage, bridge timbers, and at least 2 new stations under construction. Altogether several hundred people at work, doing a lot - a lot has been done in past years, a lot more yet to go. Notably, other lineside off-railroad construction work was nil - just 2 buildings that I saw, one with not much going on and the other with maybe 10 people there. So the railroad appeared to be the major economic engine for construction work in that segment.
- Coffee was $1.75 for a smallish cup, and a fruit cup snack was $4.00 - probably typical for New York and the cities, but about twice was it would cost elsewhere in the region.
- Ride quality was pretty good - ony 1 or 2 significant lurches. Amfleet coaches and restroom were pretty clean and well-stocked. I'd give them an A- on that.
I'd do it again anytime, no question. The drive back in heavy rain and traffic was miserable - much rather have taken the train again !
- Paul North.
Those were basically my thoughts too, Paul. Just checking, as I need to have my info right. Thx.
Look at the circumstances when a torpedo would have been used: typically (by my understanding) in 'dark' (unsignalled) territory when a following train needed to be warned about the presence of a stopped or slow-moving train ahead which might have experienced unexpected mechanical difficulties, for a period of time longer than a fusee could be depended to burn, or might not be seen (such as in deep snow), etc. For example, once a train got moving again the flagman couldn't stay back the required flagging distance - he had to be back on board the caboose, and the best he could do then is drop a lit fusee every couple of minutes, even if the train was limping along at only 10 or 15 MPH or so. Better communications such as radio, maybe fewer trains - and more reliable ones ?, more signals, etc. reduced the need for and usefulness of torpedoes, and the safety issues likely contributed to discontinuance of their use.
Are engineers more alert than they used to be, and do not need to be waked up?
Or was it danger to anyone/thing lineside that brought about the disuse?
Kind of sad to think that the guy hadn't seen (or more likely just hadn't looked at) a train for 25 years or more!
Torpedoes haven't been mentioned in rulebooks for quite a while, now.
WMNB4THRTL Do any RR's still use torpedoes?
Do any RR's still use torpedoes?
Do any RR's still use torpedoes? I'm thinking no but...?
I had a guy ask me today --very seriously--why it was he saw a train (his first) recently with NO caboose?! He was really quite puzzled by this! That one, I could answer!! (Yes, I kept a straight face, though I did wonder which rock he lives under!! )
Sometimes, perhaps, we are allowed to get lost that we may find the right person to ask directions of. ~Robert Brault
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
From Railway Age this morning:
The Federal Transit Administration Tuesday declared a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONZI) for Cincinnati’s proposed 3.0-mile streetcar, clearing the way for the use of $29 million in federal funds already allocated to the project. "The federal government has examined the project and given it a full green light," said Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney in a statement.
"We can move forward, now that we have the FONZI," he should have continued. "Heyyyyy!!"
No real updates here, Nance--everything's about the same as when I posted last night. It was Elmhurst where the trees got toppled. I'm under the weather today (either to much sun or too much sitting has made me dizzy), so I don't plan on checking it out for myself. It's a shame...there's still rain in the forecast, but it's sunny and clear out there at the moment.
The news mentioned something about the storm crippling a Metra train for five hours. I know they stopped service on the UP west line last night for over two hours, but don't have the details on what and where for the "crippled" train.
Happy birthday today to (besides my younger daughter) Joe Kohnen! He's probably asleep as this is written, but I hope that the weather and chores permit him to take his son and spend some time trackside a little later.
[quote user="jeffhergert"]
I was going to post this earlier, like a day or so, but never got around to it. I met the eastbound salad shooter (ZDLSKP) out in western Iowa. It had a TBOX car about the middle of the train. First time I have seen a car other than a white ARMN reefer in the train.
Jeff, I heard another report that mentioned those TBOX cars and smaller ARMN cars, too. I don't know what they're hauling in the TBOX cars yet, but it will be interesting to find out. I'd been wondering whether UP could spare enough of the big ARMNs for a third weekly trip.
zardoz Dan, just curious...do you know where it happened? Near Dale, or Medina Junction?
Dan, just curious...do you know where it happened? Near Dale, or Medina Junction?
Carl - I would feel helpless too. I hope the guy's family & the crew involved come through ok.
Dan
Oh Carl, you guys all made national news; any update? Thanks; hope all are safe!!!
I meant to say: My t&p to all involved in the incident. How terribly sad.
I know that helpless feeling...but if I ever had it in connection with a human life, I think there would be a very sick feeling to go along with it.
Had a great day, sort of, with Willy and family. Elmhurst: one train. Blue Island: zero. Dolton: one. Porter: two, while the ladies shopped at the antique store. Miller: one. Along the limited-access highways where we couldn't stop or otherwise enhance our view: dozens! (Well, maybe six.)
We then went back to Elmhurst for supper (pizza) during the height of the rush hour--lots of scoots, no freights. An inbound train stayed stopped at the station for about 20 minutes, due to a medical emergency on board (ambulances left soon after the train did). That delay had some repercussions with the rest of the rush-hour schedule: the next outbound train was a turnaround (ran only as far as Elmhurst), but couldn't return right away until the medically-afflicted train cleared the block ahead of him. He, meanwhile, was sitting on Track 3, delaying two or three more outbound trains.
After supper, we stayed on the Lombard platform for a while...scored two more scoots, but still no freights. But within a few minutes of their having gotten back to their hotel, we had a storm go through that Willy says was "better than anything he's seen in Omaha". Just two blocks away from where we'd had supper, wind gusts of 75 m.p.h. toppled trees in the park. Willy said he'd seen transformer explosions from his hotel. We lost power momentarily, and spent a bit of time in the basement with the tornado warning.
Paul, congratulations on the new car...and on being able to add some mileage to your "to-done" map. Your trip today sounds interesting--may have been more-or-less normal for your neck of the woods, but I would have loved to share those experiences!
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