Well, your post seems to indicate a strong dislike of CN.
And your repeated jibes at the railroaders here and in most threads you respond in seem to indicate a dislike of us as a group, although I suspect it is because we resist change for changes sake.
Yup, air brakes have evolved since their invention, but you don't see that.
It amazes me that you belong to a forum that was populated by professionals involved daily with the subject matter, yet you and a few others seem to fail to grasp the fact that when one of us tells you "it works this way because"... you take off on a tangent explaining how we refuse to change, are simply satisfied with the status quo, so forth and so on, when in reality our industry does evolve all the time.
As for the subject of this thread...if the city was so concerned about that particular road being blocked by a train, well the solution is simple...don't cross the tracks.
Go under, or over, but not across.
But the city built the crossing, designed by them, installed by them, and mostly paid for and maintained by the railroad.
If you decide to cross the tracks, then you should also accept the fact that, like any machine, a train may break down, in your way, so have an alternative route planned.
As for two hours being excessive, not really.
According to both NORAC and GCOR, if the train goes into emergency brake application, you first advise the dispatcher and any trains in your area you are aware of where you are and what has happened.
Then, by the rules, the conductor or brakeman must inspect the entire train, both sides, to make sure all the wheels are on the rail and no serious damage has occurred...during this inspection you determine what caused the emergency application, and if crossing are blocked, after inspection, if possible, you move the portion of the train you can clear of the crossing.
Once you find the cause, depending on what happened, changing a knuckle, even with a utility or car man present to help takes about an hour to two hours.
Again, I invite you to explain how you would have moved that train quickly.
You have failed to address it so far, other than to complain, so how would you, a "un professional" arm chair railroader go about it and solve the problem ?
23 17 46 11
Paul_D_North_Jr YoHo1975: [snip] State Route 14 is a 4 lane highway. A major artery. The very notion that an at grade crossing was acceptable here for what was to be a major Bypass route is ridiculous. [snip] The grade crossing existed before CN bought the EJ&E. Such an event could have happened anytime, then or now. The planning failure was the town's or Illinois DOT's, to not have either eliminated the crossing or created a viable alternate route, as this road became the major Bypass route. As zugmann pointed out, the same could have happened with an auto accident - or one of the many trucks that were apparently stuck in the resulting back-up. Or a fire could have closed the road, or a water main break, etc., etc. This time, the railroad was the 'goat', and justifiably so. But if that's what happened and that's all it took, then perhaps this situation has made the town and/ or the DOT irresponsibly vulnerable to any little disruption in their nice orderly little life. That aspect should be considered as well. - Paul North.
YoHo1975: [snip] State Route 14 is a 4 lane highway. A major artery. The very notion that an at grade crossing was acceptable here for what was to be a major Bypass route is ridiculous. [snip]
The very notion that an at grade crossing was acceptable here for what was to be a major Bypass route is ridiculous. [snip]
The grade crossing existed before CN bought the EJ&E. Such an event could have happened anytime, then or now.
The planning failure was the town's or Illinois DOT's, to not have either eliminated the crossing or created a viable alternate route, as this road became the major Bypass route.
As zugmann pointed out, the same could have happened with an auto accident - or one of the many trucks that were apparently stuck in the resulting back-up. Or a fire could have closed the road, or a water main break, etc., etc. This time, the railroad was the 'goat', and justifiably so. But if that's what happened and that's all it took, then perhaps this situation has made the town and/ or the DOT irresponsibly vulnerable to any little disruption in their nice orderly little life. That aspect should be considered as well.
- Paul North.
My point in this this thread has been missed about as bad as it could be.
I'm not talking about what EJ&E and the builders of route 14 felt was reasonable. EJ&E's traffic profile was very very different and the traffic on 14 was different at that time.
I'm talking about CN's Stated plans, their stated train's per day Rte 14's current profile and the Enivornmental Impact Report.
Based on CN's goals with this line, which includes a significant increase in trains on the line, having an at grade crossing of a major state highway is simply unacceptable. The EIR SHOULD have required a grade separation. That is a failure of the report, and a failure of CN. Certainly the people of Barrington have not failed to make this an issue.
Accidents do happen and its the job of EIRs, City planners and Railroads to account for that and minimize the impact of those failures.
This is a case where that didn't happen.
It isn't a NIMBY attitude here. Wanting a grade separation is now and was at the time of CN buyout a perfectly reasonable request.
Quite frankly, I have plenty of respect for the railroad men and women who post here, but this issue isn't about busted knuckles or how to run a train. Its about planning and engineering. So I don't see how being a hogger has anything to do with anything.
And putting in grade separations as traffic and building patterns change is a normal and reasonable thing to do.
And that gets back to my point. the people of Barrington have every reason to be upset that that grade was not properly addressed. It should have been addressed. The increase in train frequency means that accidents will occur more often than they did in the past. That's how statistics work.
A few things
1: read the article, CN says it was for sure a busted knuckle.
2: I keep calling it a state route when in fact it is US rte14, a Federal Highway.
3: From the article:
“Our Route 14 has the second highest traffic of the roads crossed by EJ&J,” with the first being Ogden Avenue in Aurora, Darch said.
Someone give a credible reason why a grade separation wasn't required by the EIR?
Read the article, the Barrington group's complaint is completely justified.
I'm flabbergasted by the reactionary bent of this thread.
edblysardle...don't cross the tracks. Go under, or over, but not across. But the city built the crossing, designed by them, installed by them, and mostly paid for and maintained by the railroad.
This is a Federal Highway, not a city street.
When is Barrington going to start helping itself rather than crying about it? You catch more bee's with honey than you do with jalapenos smothered in Tabasco sauce.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Did you read the article?
Barrington is doing just that. They got funds to do a study of how to do the grade separation.
The complaint was from an advocacy group and the way an advocacy group "helps itself" is by voicing the issue.
Suing CN for money to fix a problem that their change in practice will cause isn't unreasonable.
Well, Ed, I guess you like to read minds or jump to unwarranted conclusions. So any critical comment concerning railroads and those who work for them "indicates a dislike of [you] as a group" and all because we think "[you] resist change for changes sake."
I only suggested that the coupler technology might need updating, and made an analogy that the brake systems in place when the Janney coupler was first used have changed a lot since then. Your response:
"Yup, air brakes have evolved since their invention, but you don't see that." which seems to have missed my point completely.
And then this:
"It amazes me that you belong to a forum that was populated by professionals involved daily with the subject matter, yet you and a few others seem to fail to grasp the fact that when one of us tells you "it works this way because"... you take off on a tangent explaining how we refuse to change, are simply satisfied with the status quo, so forth and so on, when in reality our industry does evolve all the time.
Go under, or over, but not across."
So whatever a professional (who were the original inhabitants of this forum) says is the final word. Woe be to anyone who doesn't defer to that. And if residents of a city or its government complain about the handling of a crossing, it is dismissed with a contemptuous "don't cross the tracks" in much the same way as anyone who gets in the way of a train is dismissed on these forums as a "Darwin Award winner." With those kinds of attitudes of their employees, it is no wonder the railroads have to run "Public Image" ads.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
YoHo1975 Did you read the article? Barrington is doing just that. They got funds to do a study of how to do the grade separation. The complaint was from an advocacy group and the way an advocacy group "helps itself" is by voicing the issue. Suing CN for money to fix a problem that their change in practice will cause isn't unreasonable.
Why are you such a proponent for Barrington?
Do you live in this NIMBY community?
schlimm With those kinds of attitudes of their employees, it is no wonder the railroads have to run "Public Image" ads.
Perhaps because professional railroaders are not blessed by the protection of tenure Professor.
Your attitude hasn't exactly been helpful either. You're deifnatley not winning lots of friends here.
Bucyrus The issue is the delay of two hours. It is that delay time that needs to be explained, and saying it was a broken knuckle does not explain it.
The issue is the delay of two hours. It is that delay time that needs to be explained, and saying it was a broken knuckle does not explain it.
Okay. Had a coalie going east, at Tama, knuckle broke, 20% new break. Walked 91 cars back, sure enough. I was carrying a hose and wrench. Had the hoghead toss one down, and pull me up to get it. loaded it on the platform, and proceeded back short of the joint. Of course I left the wrench and hose where he dropped the knuckle. The pin had a cotter pin holding it in. A chunk of ballast did not work, neither did an old spike. There was however a car in Tama yard, so I walked over, grabbed the pin, and went to work. Made the joint, tested it, and put the pin I borrowed back. Walked back to the head end. Delay, 1:45 or there abouts.
It's easy if the knuckle is within 10 cars or so, but back 90 cars, you have little choice. I am not a jogger, nor is it advisable on ballast shoulders no matter who you are. I am sure that conductor did his best to fix the issue. And no, nobody walks back after loosing the air knowing it is a broken knuckle. So you don't carry a 90 pound spare with you, (if you even know the type that broke). To think otherwise is folly.
And before anyone says it, the J has been there a long time, and given the nature of railroading, don't tell me that they never pulled a knuckle, or lost their air causing delays in all those years.
Murray YoHo1975: Did you read the article? Barrington is doing just that. They got funds to do a study of how to do the grade separation. The complaint was from an advocacy group and the way an advocacy group "helps itself" is by voicing the issue. Suing CN for money to fix a problem that their change in practice will cause isn't unreasonable. Why are you such a proponent for Barrington? Do you live in this NIMBY community?
YoHo1975: Did you read the article? Barrington is doing just that. They got funds to do a study of how to do the grade separation. The complaint was from an advocacy group and the way an advocacy group "helps itself" is by voicing the issue. Suing CN for money to fix a problem that their change in practice will cause isn't unreasonable.
I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I:
1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY.
2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed.
I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times.
RRKen Bucyrus: The issue is the delay of two hours. It is that delay time that needs to be explained, and saying it was a broken knuckle does not explain it. Okay. Had a coalie going east, at Tama, knuckle broke, 20% new break. Walked 91 cars back, sure enough. I was carrying a hose and wrench. Had the hoghead toss one down, and pull me up to get it. loaded it on the platform, and proceeded back short of the joint. Of course I left the wrench and hose where he dropped the knuckle. The pin had a cotter pin holding it in. A chunk of ballast did not work, neither did an old spike. There was however a car in Tama yard, so I walked over, grabbed the pin, and went to work. Made the joint, tested it, and put the pin I borrowed back. Walked back to the head end. Delay, 1:45 or there abouts. It's easy if the knuckle is within 10 cars or so, but back 90 cars, you have little choice. I am not a jogger, nor is it advisable on ballast shoulders no matter who you are. I am sure that conductor did his best to fix the issue. And no, nobody walks back after loosing the air knowing it is a broken knuckle. So you don't carry a 90 pound spare with you, (if you even know the type that broke). To think otherwise is folly. And before anyone says it, the J has been there a long time, and given the nature of railroading, don't tell me that they never pulled a knuckle, or lost their air causing delays in all those years.
Bucyrus: The issue is the delay of two hours. It is that delay time that needs to be explained, and saying it was a broken knuckle does not explain it.
I understand broken knuckles. I know that a lot of time can get eaten up while fixing one. I can see how it could take two hours or even four hours. But my point was not that the knuckle took too long to replace. My point is that the train should not been left standing on the crossing for that long. It is more work to cut the crossings, but that is what should have been done. However, I will concede that if the crossing was behind the break-in-two, and no other locomotive or crew were available to pull the hind end back, there might not have been any way to cut the crossing.
schlimm Well, Ed, I guess you like to read minds or jump to unwarranted conclusions. So any critical comment concerning railroads and those who work for them "indicates a dislike of [you] as a group" and all because we think "[you] resist change for changes sake." I only suggested that the coupler technology might need updating, and made an analogy that the brake systems in place when the Janney coupler was first used have changed a lot since then.
I only suggested that the coupler technology might need updating, and made an analogy that the brake systems in place when the Janney coupler was first used have changed a lot since then.
Actually it has. New metallurgy has made even stronger couplers in the past few years. Not all cars have them yet, some, may never get them.
schlimmSo whatever a professional (who were the original inhabitants of this forum) says is the final word. Woe be to anyone who doesn't defer to that. And if residents of a city or its government complain about the handling of a crossing, it is dismissed with a contemptuous "don't cross the tracks" in much the same way as anyone who gets in the way of a train is dismissed on these forums as a "Darwin Award winner." With those kinds of attitudes of their employees, it is no wonder the railroads have to run "Public Image" ads.
Current operating employees do not live in fantasy land. We actually do the job day in and day out. Are there better ideas? Sure. But those solutions take time to implement. I personally doubt you know the process involved to modify or design and produce new hardware such as a coupler. Having been around those who do that sort of work, I have an understanding of it.
Look how long it has taken to design, test, and get to a point where carriers can implement the use of PTC. There is a lot of validation in the field so far, and still, software and hardware needs to be developed to work with current systems out there. I know of carriers who have not even started to upgrade their communications bandwith to allow for all this data. You make it sounds as if we wave some sort of magic wand, and poof, it's done.
I like new ideas, but, I also understand the reality of railroading.
YoHo1975 I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I: 1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY. 2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed. I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times.
So what? There are plenty of places where US highways cross railroad crossings at grade. The BNSF crosses US 12/20 at grade in downtown La Grange, with the BNSF running far more traffic than the CN would ever dream of. Does La Grange cry anytime a BN train has a UDE? No they deal with it, something that the spoiled brats of Barrington seem unable to do. Maybe someone should tell the residents of East Chicago that they can get the grade crossing of US 41 and both the South Shore and CSX tracks grade seperated if they act like entitled NIMBYS. I mean CSX runs around 50 trains a day through there, with another 20 or so a day on the South Shore, across a US highway. To think its been like this for 50 years! Please........Running the 15 trains a day or so that the CN has across US 14 is not that big of a deal, to make it sound like one is just stupid......
BTW as a dispatcher if a train crew reports to me that they have a knuckle, I plan on AT LEAST a 2 hour delay in them changing it out. This crew seemed to do alright....
An "expensive model collector"
Just to clarify, US 14 is a state highway that is part of the Federal Highway system.
From wikipedia: The system of United States numbered highways (often called U.S. Routes or U.S. Highways) is an integrated system of roads and highways in the United States numbered within a nationwide grid. As these highways were coordinated among the states, they are infrequently referred to as Federal Highways, but they have always been maintained by state or local governments since their initial designation in 1926.
Now we have a ray of the sunshine of reality entering the discussion, just a ray, but a ray never the less.
Bucyrus My point is that the train should not been left standing on the crossing for that long. It is more work to cut the crossings, but that is what should have been done. However, I will concede that if the crossing was behind the break-in-two, and no other locomotive or crew were available to pull the hind end back, there might not have been any way to cut the crossing.
My point is that the train should not been left standing on the crossing for that long. It is more work to cut the crossings, but that is what should have been done. However, I will concede that if the crossing was behind the break-in-two, and no other locomotive or crew were available to pull the hind end back, there might not have been any way to cut the crossing.
Bucyrus I understand broken knuckles. I know that a lot of time can get eaten up while fixing one. I can see how it could take two hours or even four hours. But my point was not that the knuckle took too long to replace. My point is that the train should not been left standing on the crossing for that long. It is more work to cut the crossings, but that is what should have been done. However, I will concede that if the crossing was behind the break-in-two, and no other locomotive or crew were available to pull the hind end back, there might not have been any way to cut the crossing.
Sure, cut all the crossings, close up the railroad until some mechanical types can get a call at home, commute to the shop, get the truck, go out to Barrington, repair the coupler, and assist the crew. We have two carmen which cover about 60 miles in each direction. If during their normal work hours, they reach the maximum DOT time, the next truck is 120 miles away. But without using carmen, cutting crossings, and fooling around, just extends the amount of time the mainline is blocked. In the winter, double any time needed to perform ground work.
State laws were written with these situations in mind. Indeed, anyone who plans a city with even one railroad in their limits, should have some sort of back up plan. Especially a Chicago suburb, with so many surrounding them. That is one of the reasons the Chicago area has such an extensive emergency back up plan in effect. It's called MABS, and it lists to the letter and line how something like this can worked around. Sure the public is inconvienced. But it is not the end of the world, and people will not die because of it.
n012944 YoHo1975: I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I: 1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY. 2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed. I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times. So what? There are plenty of places where US highways cross railroad crossings at grade. The BNSF crosses US 12/20 at grade in downtown La Grange, with the BNSF running far more traffic than the CN would ever dream of. Does La Grange cry anytime a BN train has a UDE? No they deal with it, something that the spoiled brats of Barrington seem unable to do. Maybe someone should tell the residents of East Chicago that they can get the grade crossing of US 41 and both the South Shore and CSX tracks grade seperated if they act like entitled NIMBYS. I mean CSX runs around 50 trains a day through there, with another 20 or so a day on the South Shore, across a US highway. To think its been like this for 50 years! Please........Running the 15 trains a day or so that the CN has across US 14 is not that big of a deal, to make it sound like one is just stupid...... BTW as a dispatcher if a train crew reports to me that they have a knuckle, I plan on AT LEAST a 2 hour delay in them changing it out. This crew seemed to do alright....
YoHo1975: I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I: 1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY. 2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed. I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times.
La Grange Rd through downtown La Grange has a fundamentally different traffic pattern than US 14 in Barrington. It cuts through a suburban central shopping district. It does not compare.
I can't speak to US 41 in East Chicago as I'm not familiar with the area, but I am very familiar with US 14 and La Grange Rd.
The town can build all the overpasses they like, but they're the ones who will be paying for them. Train comes apart and blocks crossings for hours, too bad so sad. The train crew is doing everything in their power to clear the crossings as soon as possible.
I DO NOT take kindly to people like Bucyrus and slimm attacking my professionalism and the profesionalism of my brothers and sisters out there. Their arrogance and ignorance are part of the reason I no longer frequent these boards.
YoHo1975 n012944: YoHo1975: I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I: 1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY. 2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed. I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times. So what? There are plenty of places where US highways cross railroad crossings at grade. The BNSF crosses US 12/20 at grade in downtown La Grange, with the BNSF running far more traffic than the CN would ever dream of. Does La Grange cry anytime a BN train has a UDE? No they deal with it, something that the spoiled brats of Barrington seem unable to do. Maybe someone should tell the residents of East Chicago that they can get the grade crossing of US 41 and both the South Shore and CSX tracks grade seperated if they act like entitled NIMBYS. I mean CSX runs around 50 trains a day through there, with another 20 or so a day on the South Shore, across a US highway. To think its been like this for 50 years! Please........Running the 15 trains a day or so that the CN has across US 14 is not that big of a deal, to make it sound like one is just stupid...... BTW as a dispatcher if a train crew reports to me that they have a knuckle, I plan on AT LEAST a 2 hour delay in them changing it out. This crew seemed to do alright.... La Grange Rd through downtown La Grange has a fundamentally different traffic pattern than US 14 in Barrington. It cuts through a suburban central shopping district. It does not compare. I can't speak to US 41 in East Chicago as I'm not familiar with the area, but I am very familiar with US 14 and La Grange Rd.
n012944: YoHo1975: I'm not a proponent for Barrington. I'm a proponent for Sanity and that means that I: 1: Fault the EIR primarily and the the Railroad secondarily for not properly addressing a grade crossing of a FEDERAL HIGHWAY. 2: Agree with the advocacy group and the city that this needed to be addressed and needs now to be addressed. I don't live in Barrington. Never have, but I've driven on US 14 many times. So what? There are plenty of places where US highways cross railroad crossings at grade. The BNSF crosses US 12/20 at grade in downtown La Grange, with the BNSF running far more traffic than the CN would ever dream of. Does La Grange cry anytime a BN train has a UDE? No they deal with it, something that the spoiled brats of Barrington seem unable to do. Maybe someone should tell the residents of East Chicago that they can get the grade crossing of US 41 and both the South Shore and CSX tracks grade seperated if they act like entitled NIMBYS. I mean CSX runs around 50 trains a day through there, with another 20 or so a day on the South Shore, across a US highway. To think its been like this for 50 years! Please........Running the 15 trains a day or so that the CN has across US 14 is not that big of a deal, to make it sound like one is just stupid...... BTW as a dispatcher if a train crew reports to me that they have a knuckle, I plan on AT LEAST a 2 hour delay in them changing it out. This crew seemed to do alright....
But your issue as stated was an at grade crossing with a FEDERAL HIGHWAY, your caps not mine. Now when I point out that there are plenty of US highways with at grade crossings in the Chicago burbs you want to change it around, got it. While yes US 12 does run through downtown La Grange, the only difference would be the speed limit. I would be willing to guess that La Grange Road has MORE traffic in a day than US 14, meaning that a UDE would affect more people on the BN in La Grange than on across US 14 on the CN...Bottom line, as a railroader I think a grade seperation would be great, less chances for a moron to go around a gate, however it is not needed.
Disclaimer, I grew up in the Western burbs and lived in the NW burbs for a while, I know all about US 14 and La Grange road.
trainboyH16-44 I think the point that's trying to be made is that rather than saying that things happen, we should try to make those things less of an issue. Why agree that it's a problem but then make it sound insurmountable? The highway department or CN or a combination thereof should put in an underpass or overpass to alleviate this problem, because things DO happen.
I think the point that's trying to be made is that rather than saying that things happen, we should try to make those things less of an issue. Why agree that it's a problem but then make it sound insurmountable? The highway department or CN or a combination thereof should put in an underpass or overpass to alleviate this problem, because things DO happen.
Because of a two-hour interruption that caused no loss of life or property, the IDOT should spend God knows how many millions of (federal) taxpayer dollars on a grade separation?
Please.
Zugman has it exactly right. And we have truly become a nation of children if we can't put up with little aggravations like this. Barrington needs to remember that it wouldn't even be on the map if it weren't for railroads that let residents commute to work in Chicago.
Which was there first, the Federal Highway or the railroad tracks...?
Doesn't matter if it is a city street, state road or highway or a federal highway, same idea and concept applies.
And you stated /implied it was CNs responsibility some how to keep the highway open, as if they built their tracks across a federal highway when I would hazard a guess that the feds exercised eminent domain and seized the private property of the original railroad and built the road crossing,
If
YoHo1975 edblysard: le...don't cross the tracks. Go under, or over, but not across. But the city built the crossing, designed by them, installed by them, and mostly paid for and maintained by the railroad. This is a Federal Highway, not a city street.
edblysard: le...don't cross the tracks. Go under, or over, but not across. But the city built the crossing, designed by them, installed by them, and mostly paid for and maintained by the railroad.
Some points that seem to be overlooked in the rush to condemn the matter as whining by spoiled NIMBY suburbanites are:
1. This is not a NIMBY issue. No one is saying the CN line should be shut down.
2. The highway that crosses the CN is US 14. It is not just a city street, only a route for mere residents or commuters. It carries large volumes of freight and commerce in trucks, provably more than the CN.
3. The former C&NW (which was there since the mid 19th century) was also blocked.
4. It is quite likely that US 14, albeit not as a numbered highway, was there before the CN (EJ&E) in 1888, as Barrington dates back to before the Civil War..
5. The issue which Yoho explained, but some choose to ignore, was:
"CN's Stated plans, their stated train's per day Rte 14's current profile and the Enivornmental Impact Report. Based on CN's goals with this line, which includes a significant increase in trains on the line, having an at grade crossing of a major state highway is simply unacceptable. The EIR SHOULD have required a grade separation."
One of the posters questioned why Yoho is "such a proponent for Barrington." Perhaps it should be asked why so many appear to be defenders of CN?
Uhhh...because this is a railroad forum (note the name/title of the forums and its sponsor) and not a "I Love Barrington" forum?
In fact, I could care less if it was CN, BNSF, UP or KCS, NS or CSX....trains break knuckles, sometimes at the worst place possible.
It takes about 1 to 2 hours to fix the problem.
Get over it.
Still haven't seen or read your solution to the supposed problem.
schlimm Four points that seem to be overlooked in the rush to condemn the matter as whining by spoiled NIMBY suburbanites are: 1. This is not a NIMBY issue. No one is saying the CN line should be shut down. 2. The highways that cross the CN are IL 59 and US 14. They are not city streets that are routes for mere residents or commuters. They both carry large volumes of freight and commerce in trucks, provably mor than the CN. 3. The former C&NW was also blocked. 4. It is quite likely that US 14 was there before the CN (EJ&E). The issue which Yoho explained, but some choose to ignore, was: "CN's Stated plans, their stated train's per day Rte 14's current profile and the Enivornmental Impact Report. Based on CN's goals with this line, which includes a significant increase in trains on the line, having an at grade crossing of a major state highway is simply unacceptable. The EIR SHOULD have required a grade separation." One of the posters questioned why Yoho is "such a proponent for Barrington." Perhaps it should be asked why so many appear to be defenders of CN?
Four points that seem to be overlooked in the rush to condemn the matter as whining by spoiled NIMBY suburbanites are:
2. The highways that cross the CN are IL 59 and US 14. They are not city streets that are routes for mere residents or commuters. They both carry large volumes of freight and commerce in trucks, provably mor than the CN.
3. The former C&NW was also blocked.
4. It is quite likely that US 14 was there before the CN (EJ&E). The issue which Yoho explained, but some choose to ignore, was:
The Solution, which is neatly outlined in the article is that the Federal Government granted money to the city of Barrington to fun the research to figure out how to reroute US14 with an under or overpass. At the same time, The STB (I Guess?) was sued, the case is currently in appeals court to force the STB to re-examine this stretch in light of the Federal Funds and to then force CN to fund the remaining costs to actually implement the grade separation.
This is right there in the article.
So yeah, CN might have to pay for this.
And as was stated US 14 AKA the Northwest Highway aka Ronald Reagan Highway is most likely older than the EJ&E. It is, at least through Barrington at least as old as the C&NW line it parallels.
Not that that will ultimately matter, here. That's just something people like to trot out as if it means something.
All that matters is that Barrington and the County and the State made their long term budget plans based on EJ&E and now have to contend with CN and CN may get to fund fixing this.
And lets also be clear, I made it clear in previous posts that traffic on the Northwest Highway was an issue. I didn't just beat the FEDERAL HIGHWAY drum and say nothing else.
enr2099 I DO NOT take kindly to people like Bucyrus and slimm attacking my professionalism and the profesionalism of my brothers and sisters out there. Their arrogance and ignorance are part of the reason I no longer frequent these boards.
Gentle arguments are always more fun and especially when there are still a few railroad workers that will add their thoughts.
Chad we need more popcorn!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
schlimm 1. This is not a NIMBY issue. No one is saying the CN line should be shut down. 5. The issue which Yoho explained, but some choose to ignore, was: "CN's Stated plans, their stated train's per day Rte 14's current profile and the Enivornmental Impact Report. Based on CN's goals with this line, which includes a significant increase in trains on the line, having an at grade crossing of a major state highway is simply unacceptable. The EIR SHOULD have required a grade separation."
You might missed this from the article:
"Since CN announced its plans to purchase the EJ&E, we’ve had no choice but to oppose the deal, as we have pointed out repeatedly to the Surface Transportation Board (STB), and now before the federal court of appeals in Washington DC, that even a relatively short freight train running on the EJ&E has the capacity to block all crossings and the Metra commuter line that runs through the center of the village,” Darch said."
Barrington is still fighting to get the merger reversed in federal court. This is indeed a NIMBY issue.
And as pointed out to Yoho, there are plenty of other US highways in the Chicago area that have at grade crossing with railroads that have much more traffic than what the CN is running on the J. The residents of these areas don't have an issue with the railroad or a sense of entitlement like the residents of Barrington do. A point which you ignore.
+1 I am sure some people on here would not know what a knuckle looks like, let alone how long it takes to swap one out.
YoHo1975 It isn't a NIMBY attitude here. Wanting a grade separation is now and was at the time of CN buyout a perfectly reasonable request.
Maybe the Villages could have approached CN with concerns and asked to work together instead of being hostile. However, a brief Google search turned up a history of anti-rail sentiment dating back to pre-Civil War days in Barrington. As early as 1853 people in that community were already trying to keep railroads out of their area. Maybe something's in the water.
I think part of the issue with anything in this area stems back to an apparent institutional dislike of railroading, despite the amount of dependance on railroading relative to the economic success of the region.
Dan
enr2099 The town can build all the overpasses they like, but they're the ones who will be paying for them. Train comes apart and blocks crossings for hours, too bad so sad. The train crew is doing everything in their power to clear the crossings as soon as possible. I DO NOT take kindly to people like Bucyrus and slimm attacking my professionalism and the profesionalism of my brothers and sisters out there. Their arrogance and ignorance are part of the reason I no longer frequent these boards.
Where did I attack your professionalism?
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