BNSF@NARS No. The Some Are To Concerned About A Train Which When You See A Train Over And Over That Would Be Good Since Around Your Town There Would Be More Business Which When There Is Less Train Someone Who Could Think Can Someone Get This Train Out Of Here Could Lose A Career Because A Railroad Could Be Much Reliable To More Than One Customer. So Once You See A Train Around A Town You Are A Resident Of And Head To Your Work Just Think That This Train Here Could Make Thousands For The Business You Work In The Next Few Hours.
No. The Some Are To Concerned About A Train Which When You See A Train Over And Over That Would Be Good Since Around Your Town There Would Be More Business Which When There Is Less Train Someone Who Could Think Can Someone Get This Train Out Of Here Could Lose A Career Because A Railroad Could Be Much Reliable To More Than One Customer.
So Once You See A Train Around A Town You Are A Resident Of And Head To Your Work Just Think That This Train Here Could Make Thousands For The Business You Work In The Next Few Hours.
NP Red If a knuckle repair could not be quickly performed for some reason, would or could the rear portion of the train be pushed back to clear a nearby grade crossing? I know this seems silly but could you not push against the broken knuckle after restoring the brake line?
If a knuckle repair could not be quickly performed for some reason, would or could the rear portion of the train be pushed back to clear a nearby grade crossing? I know this seems silly but could you not push against the broken knuckle after restoring the brake line?
Probably not. What's to say there is only one broken knuckle? If you send the air to rest rest of the train, it will most likely roll away when they kick off, and the train line will separate again, leaving you back where you started. Or maybe worse, as the limited amount of charging time might mean less than effective brake application and dumping the air may not stop the unattached portion.
Maybe installing more of these might help. Some of the newer FBOXs have them from the factory.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Air hose extensions, the most tripped over item in locomotive cabs.
Ah, what we know as a dummy hose.
A Dutchman hose, made by Premco.
Yes, she is holding it up side down.
23 17 46 11
So they invented the Hump Yard?
Dan
zugmann Bucyrus: I have heard the term, Dutch drop to refer to a drop where the engine pushs the car up a small grade, and a drop is made simply by gravity rather than by getting the car rolling with the locomotive pulling and then uncoupling and pulling away from it. Those dutch guys sure were smart fellows..
Bucyrus: I have heard the term, Dutch drop to refer to a drop where the engine pushs the car up a small grade, and a drop is made simply by gravity rather than by getting the car rolling with the locomotive pulling and then uncoupling and pulling away from it.
I have heard the term, Dutch drop to refer to a drop where the engine pushs the car up a small grade, and a drop is made simply by gravity rather than by getting the car rolling with the locomotive pulling and then uncoupling and pulling away from it.
Those dutch guys sure were smart fellows..
Maybe smart, but it takes all the fun out of a drop.
Bucyrus I have heard the term, Dutch drop to refer to a drop where the engine pushs the car up a small grade, and a drop is made simply by gravity rather than by getting the car rolling with the locomotive pulling and then uncoupling and pulling away from it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Zug,
In our timetable we call them "Emergency Air Hose Extensions" and they are not allowed to go out on our outbound class 1 trains.
They are manufactured, not shop made, I will see what the trade name is on one tomorrow.
I would imagine there are a lot of shops that could make them up also.
Old heads here call them Dutchman hoses or shorties also.
We carry them on board our locomotives because of the extreme tight curves we often encounter inside some of our customers plants, if the cars are left in a curves there are times you just can't make the air joint when lacing the cars up.
We don't use EOTs, but our inbound member line class 1 trains have them, and if the crew doesn't take it back with them we stack 'em up and the member line trainmasters stop by and loads up on them.
We have to use the class 1 power when spotting grain or bulk trains in the plants, so we have to deal with the EOTs, most of the time they will be needed to go back on the train that the member power will pull from us, so we hang them on the front knuckle, or stick them on top of the front plow between the plow and pilot.
That way, the class 1 crew has a EOT on hand for their train.
Paul,
The term Dutchman is used as you described, a short "cheater" piece of rail to repair a gap or broken rail.
But it is also used by wood workers, the term describes a patch that is inlayed in furniture or door panels to replace a defect like a knot hole that has fallen out, most of the time it is done on a piece of the work that is out of sight, but on occasion, it is used as a decorative accent.
zugmann ICLand: I'm recalling two standard lengths; vaguely, 22" and 36"; they might have been 26" and 32". It's been a while and it wasn't anything I was paid to know, so "vague" is the best description of my recollection and "wrong" might even fit. I think they're still standard; it's more of an issue with the drawbars than the hoses.
ICLand: I'm recalling two standard lengths; vaguely, 22" and 36"; they might have been 26" and 32". It's been a while and it wasn't anything I was paid to know, so "vague" is the best description of my recollection and "wrong" might even fit.
I'm recalling two standard lengths; vaguely, 22" and 36"; they might have been 26" and 32". It's been a while and it wasn't anything I was paid to know, so "vague" is the best description of my recollection and "wrong" might even fit.
I think they're still standard; it's more of an issue with the drawbars than the hoses.
I remember one time over the summer when CN Q199 decided to go out. after that, all you heard was "your attention please. all Metra North Central Service Inbound trains will be delayed about 15-20 minutes due to waiting on other trains"
Well, it certainly sounds as though engines on most railroads in this country have spare knuckles, as well as hoses and tools. So that leaves the question of the equipment on CN, at least as described by cnwfan2.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BaltACD CSX locomotives routinely are equipped with spare knuckles affixed to the pilot of the long end of the locomotive http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=343411&nseq=689 Notice one affixed to the pilot next to the steps on the long end of engine 389. The yellow painted hand rail on the trailing engine points directly to the spare knuckle.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=343411&nseq=689
Notice one affixed to the pilot next to the steps on the long end of engine 389. The yellow painted hand rail on the trailing engine points directly to the spare knuckle.
See also this one - can you find the "KNUCKLE"s on this loco ?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=175355
There's an even better one someplace on RP.NET, but I can't find it right now . . .
Re: zug's comment about "dutchman" air hoses - that is indeed likely a 'regional dialect' term, considering what part of PA we're in and near - the "Pennsylvania Dutch" country. A short piece of rail to fill a gap, or which has broken off a longer piece and is held in place by another pair of joint bars close to a standard track joint, is also called a 'Dutchman' in my experience.
- Paul North.
There is a single standard length air hose.
The Rube Goldberg means of mounting the air hose on individual cars allows for the single standard air hose length.
Car Departments around the country manufacture the 'FRA illegal' shorty air hose extensions that are forced into use when the Rube Goldberg air hose mounting systems have mechanical malfunctions or breakages that don't permit them to have their designed travel limits. Crews endeavor to have at least one shorty air hose extender in their possession at all times.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
ICLand I'm recalling two standard lengths; vaguely, 22" and 36"; they might have been 26" and 32". It's been a while and it wasn't anything I was paid to know, so "vague" is the best description of my recollection and "wrong" might even fit.
zugmann Actually, it happens. Especially when you get long flats or anything else with long drawbars. That's why many engines also may have a "dutchman" in their toolboxes. That may be a regional term, but I'm sure some here will know what I'm talking about.
Actually, it happens. Especially when you get long flats or anything else with long drawbars. That's why many engines also may have a "dutchman" in their toolboxes. That may be a regional term, but I'm sure some here will know what I'm talking about.
ICLand The non-conforming air hose length was next on my list: THESE ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD.
The non-conforming air hose length was next on my list: THESE ARE INDUSTRY STANDARD.
edblysard Most of the time the knuckles are in a rack on the rear pilot, although NS has been putting them on a bar welded to the lead truck on newer locomotives. About the only "loose" thing we allow in the cab is the conductor. Broom, fusee and flag kit, spare hoses and wrench are in the nose compartment, not the cab. We are not allowed to leave anything on any walkway, even a Fred, we have to stash them in the long hood or nose compartment. I like to either jam them behind the plow or just hang them in the front knuckle.
Most of the time the knuckles are in a rack on the rear pilot, although NS has been putting them on a bar welded to the lead truck on newer locomotives.
About the only "loose" thing we allow in the cab is the conductor.
Broom, fusee and flag kit, spare hoses and wrench are in the nose compartment, not the cab.
We are not allowed to leave anything on any walkway, even a Fred, we have to stash them in the long hood or nose compartment.
I like to either jam them behind the plow or just hang them in the front knuckle.
Most of our standard cab engines, the tools are back in the tool compartment (or walkway box) and not in the nose. The terlet is in the nose...
Per rule - a EOT has to be either on a knuckle or on a specially designed holder. I got into the habit of just attaching it on the front knuckle when I was done using it. Might even be related to an FRA thing - I don't know.
CSX locomotives routinely are equipped with spare knuckles affixed to the pilot of the long end of the locomotive
Every railroad I ever worked for we had to do a daily locomotive inspection that included making sure the engines were equipped with an "E" and an "F" knuckle and knuckle pins. A small assortment of airhose gaskets is standard. In addition to spare air hoses, a wrench, fusees,spill kit,first aid kit, air hose securement cables etc. We usually equip our engines with a couple "standard" air hoses along with a short jumper hose also the ACT and MR hoses for the engines. We used to equip engines with a caboose chain for pulling around cars without drawbars.
Parts and tools are almost never in the locomotive cab as loose objects in the cab are a federal defect. tools and parts are kept in a safer, usually well hidden spot. Sometimes the knuckes are on the pilot, sometimes on the trucks, sometimes in the air compressor room, sometimes on the walkway. Almost never in the nose compartment or the cab
CNW 6000 1. Car arrives in yard with weakened (but still functional) coupler.
1. Car arrives in yard with weakened (but still functional) coupler.
And to be fair, notwithstanding my skepticism, as I posted the remark, then thought about it, I thought, "well, yes, this could happen," and attempted to delete my post, but it had been responded to and could not be deleted. Of course, you have no idea that the car may have arrived "in a weakened condition," but yes, breaks do occur in yards.
ICLand cnwfan2: The inspections of the railcars are usually done in the yard when the train is being made up, and when the cars are being switched to the different tracks.Then there are usually a few things that are seen that need to be repaired like broken stirrups,handrails,air hoses that are too short to connect to the other air hose,knuckles broken.Then those cars are immediately put on a RIP track. I think I may be punishing myself at this point: how does a car get to the yard with a broken knuckle?
cnwfan2: The inspections of the railcars are usually done in the yard when the train is being made up, and when the cars are being switched to the different tracks.Then there are usually a few things that are seen that need to be repaired like broken stirrups,handrails,air hoses that are too short to connect to the other air hose,knuckles broken.Then those cars are immediately put on a RIP track.
I think I may be punishing myself at this point: how does a car get to the yard with a broken knuckle?
1. Car arrives in yard with weakened (but still functional) coupler.2. Car set on some track that may get other cars kicked into it or gets stretched repeatedly.3. Car may then itself be kicked to another track as part of the train building process.4. Repeat #2 as necessary.5. When block of cars containing our car is "ready" to be laced and get air, the added stress applied within the last x amount of hours in the yard being kicked into and stretched against may have been the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.
Saw that today, actually.
Judging by some of the comments to him from our well-known railroaders like ed and zug, as well as some inconsistencies in his own responses, I would hazard a guess that cnwfan2 is not a CN employee and has never operated any engine except a scale model, or else "his CN" is one mighty strange railroad!
Yes, and I guess those air hoses just keep getting shorter, and pretty soon you can't connect them.
cnwfan2The inspections of the railcars are usually done in the yard when the train is being made up, and when the cars are being switched to the different tracks.Then there are usually a few things that are seen that need to be repaired like broken stirrups,handrails,air hoses that are too short to connect to the other air hose,knuckles broken.Then those cars are immediately put on a RIP track.
cnwfan2Confidentially,we dont put spare parts on the train, as,-we are "assuming" there will be no problems with the rail cars.
That's quite an assumption.
I would guess that the Thread Topic suggests the assumption "might" be ... wrong?
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