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Getting on and off of moving trains..

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 13, 2010 4:38 PM

Here is my manual for getting on and off of moving equipment:

 

The techniques for getting on and off moving equipment are described by the use of the terms, trailing and leading, which refer to the direction that the equipment is moving, and are defined as follows: 

 

Leading is the direction the equipment is headed, and trailing is the direction opposite the direction that the equipment is headed.  

 

When a person is to get on or off of moving equipment, they begin from a position of facing the centerline of the track, perpendicularly to the centerline, either standing alongside of the track intending to get on, or standing on the stirrup of a car or the steps of an engine intending to get off.  In this starting position, one side of the person is facing the leading direction of the moving equipment, and the other side is facing the trailing direction of the moving equipment.  Therefore, the right and left limbs of the person can be designated leading and trailing with respect to that direction of equipment travel.

 

GETTING ON MOVING EQUIPMENT:

 

Extend your trailing leg and place your trailing foot into the car stirrup or lowest engine step pocket, and reach with both arms to grab both railings of the engine steps or a rung of a car ladder.  Your trailing foot will naturally be impacted by the trailing side of the stirrup or step pocket, and the force will tend to stand you up on your trailing leg.  As it stands you up, place your leading foot into the step pocket or stirrup alongside of your trailing foot. 

 

GETTING OFF MOVING EQUIPMENT METHOD #1:

 

Pivot your body on your trailing foot as you let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your leading hand.  Continue pivoting until your entire body has rotated about 90 degrees, and is facing the direction of equipment travel, and your leading leg and foot are completely off of the engine step or car stirrup.  As you pivot, bend the trailing leg to lower your body, and prepare to step onto the ground with your leading leg.  When your leading foot hits the ground, let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your trailing hand, and bring your trailing leg forward to take the next step on the ground.

 

GETTING OFF MOVING EQUIPMENT METHOD #2:

 

Take your trailing leg off of the engine steps or car stirrup, and cross it over behind your leading leg.  Bend your leading leg to lower your body, and prepare to step onto the ground with your trailing leg.  When your trailing foot impacts the ground, the force will tend to rotate your body away from the equipment.  As it does so, let the rotation disengage your leading foot from the engine steps or car stirrup, while at the same time, let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your leading hand.  As this rotation on your trailing leg continues, bring your leading foot down to the ground to take the next step, and let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your trailing hand.  

 

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, August 13, 2010 4:56 PM

Yup.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, August 13, 2010 5:31 PM

 

[Edit: add what I intended to quote]

Here is a YouTube video of the incident.  Unfortunately it does not show the actual moment when the supervisor got on the engine, so you cannot tell if it was leading or trailing foot first!  Sorry about the idiocy narration, it is from one of those sensationalistic reality news TV shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apsKBo8-zak

I believe the newest contributor to our forums could have done better in narrating the event. One thing that struck me was the mention of the use of the throttle in stopping the train--was the brake not needed?

It is too bad that the man who stopped the train was unable to show his technique for boarding.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:30 PM

Deggesty
It is too bad that the man who stopped the train was unable to show his technique for boarding.

Grab both handrails and hope to heck your foot hits the step...

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Posted by ValleyX on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:38 PM
Trailing foot is the only way I ever knew or was ever taught to do it. Leading foot seems so WRONG to me but that's me. Had a track supervisor riding with me one time, he wanted off at a road crossing, told me not to stop. Well, this was a good number of years ago and dynamics weren't what they are now and the air had a kicker in it, so I didn't want to use it if it could be avoided. He went out the front door of the engine, we were running long hood lead, got over on my side and down on the bottom step. When he stuck out his leading foot, I thought, despite what he told me about he knew all about how to get off a moving train, he doesn't. He stepped off and down he went. He was ok, he must have been, never heard anything about it and he never brought it up. Oh, the other thing is, and you can think what you want, but it was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my railroad career. When he stepped off, the assistant track supervisor was there waiting for him. The track supervisor was a big guy and the assistant, not so big. At first, it looked like he was going to try and catch him but when he got barrelling along, he made a nice little step to the side that would have done a bullfighter proud and the track boss went right on by.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 13, 2010 6:40 PM

tree68

Deggesty
It is too bad that the man who stopped the train was unable to show his technique for boarding.

Grab both handrails and hope to heck your foot hits the step...

The technique for boarding under those higher speed circumstance require that the person run alongside of the train to try to match the speed of the train or at least get close to matching it.  Then you modulate your speed to allow the engine railings to draw alongside of you, and grab the railings with both hands at the same time.  Only after your hands make the grip, do you pull yourself up with your arms so you can plant your feet on the bottom step. 

 

To run alongside of the train, you need to have a good clear stretch alongside of the track with no obstructions or significant vegetation.  A wide grade crossing would be ideal.  If your speed is less than the train speed, grabbing the railings might yank you off of your feet rather than break your grip on the railings.  If that happens, you need to be prepared to rely on your arm strength to control your body position and get your feet planted on the bottom step; and to make sure your feet do not get swept under the steps and under the wheels.

 

That guy in the video of the runaway CSX train that was going to try to get on really did not even try.  I think it would have been very doable with the technique I described. The main point is that you do not plant your foot onto the bottom step as a first move like you do with normal speed boarding.  That would break your leg.        

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, August 13, 2010 9:32 PM

Ok, here's the story on the CSX runaway.

Crew doubling over, conductor at the rear of the train, engineer stops to line a bad switch using the independent brake only, he is still pumping up the train line because they are going to couple up to another track and cut the air in.

That is normal, you don't waste air if you don't have to, it increases the time needed to pump up the next track.

As the engineer gets up from his seat he bumped the throttle with his hip, he did not realize this, exits the cab and goes to line the switch, at which point the locomotive begins to move, he tried to mount up but failed, (he was a pretty good sized fellow).

I believe the event recorder showed the throttle in notch 4.

The lead and track were on a downward grade, the train sped up, the brake shoes eventually wore away...I remember seeing photos of the brake head, they too were pretty tore up.

Long story short, the police and CSX tried pushing the fuel cut off button with a broom handle, missed, then they tried shooting the same switch, which only destroyed the switch.

Fuel cut off switches are momentary switches, they have to be held down for a second, the switch grounds out a relay in the fuel pump wiring, opening the relay and both shutting off the pump, which starves the engine of fuel and shutting off the injectors.

At one point, the had a pick up truck pacing the train and a officer tried to board, but couldn't.

Finally, one employee realized that the train would slow down some as it approached a grade crossing, as it was a slight up hill grade, we saw footage of him mounting, he takes three running steps, grabs the hand holds with both hands, takes a few more running steps and pulls himself up on the first step...because he was running he landed on his leading foot, but in this instance that matters little.

He enters the cab, closes the throttle, centered the reverser and used the train brake to stop.

Because if this instance, the FRA called for a rule that required either a crew member be in the cab of a locomotive in "run" at all times, a crew member must be in the cab if the engineer leaves the cab, or, if the engineer is alone, before he may leave the locomotive he must set the independent brake fully, do a 20 psi brake pipe or train line reduction, isolate the locomotive, set the generator switch to off, tie the locomotive hand brake.

This same rule requires all locomotives in a consist be isolated, with hand brakes tied, when a crew leaves the consist un attended.

Oddly enough, with in a month of this incident, CSX had a light locomotive , a GP38 yard motor run away also, although that one was because the crew failed to tie the hand brake down, left the locomotive held in place by the independent brake only, and went home.

The locomotive died, the compressor of course shut off, and the faulty independent bled down, the locomotive was also on a slight grade, and it rolled something like 3 or 4 miles through several switches and several grade crossings, ended up out on a main where it dropped a signal, which alerted the dispatcher.

It stopped on its own on a flat area, up against a switch lined against it.

It was determined that this locomotive was also due its 92 day FRA inspection the following day, which would have caught the worn out independent brake valve.

Talk about bad coincidence.

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 14, 2010 11:08 AM

WSOR 3801

 We do it all the time.  We do a lot of switching, so stopping for every mount-dismount would cost too much time, and we would only get one days work done, instead of 1.5 or 2.  There is a fairly big passage in the safety manual on the proper method (trailing foot).  If you don't feel comfortable, or there is snow-ice-bad footing, it is perfectly fine to stop the move. 

 

 

Hope you are being paid for 1.5 or 2 days work...

 

A job ain't worth destroying your body over.   And if you get hurt, no RR is going to stand behind you.

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:31 PM

edblysard

As the engineer gets up from his seat he bumped the throttle with his hip, he did not realize this, exits the cab and goes to line the switch, at which point the locomotive begins to move, he tried to mount up but failed, (he was a pretty good sized fellow).

I had sort or heard the details of how that runaway happened, but it left some lingering questions.  I could see how the engineer could have bumped the throttle as he got up to exit the unit.  But why was he not immediately alerted to the error upon hearing the engine rev up to throttle notch #4?  I know there is a little lag time between the throttle movement and the engine response, but still, the engineer could have hardly even gotten out of the cab before the engine revved up.

 

I guess the reverser was left in the power position because, with the throttle in idle, the engineer saw no reason to place the reverser in neutral.  But, considering the sound of the engine revving up when it should not have been, I don’t get how the engineer could have not suspected that something was amiss.

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Posted by edblysard on Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:32 PM

Well, that's the official version....

My guess, and only a guess, would be the engineer realized he was about to run through a switch, slapped the throttle closed or so he thought, hit the independent, then bailed out and ran to line the switch ahead of the move....and didn't make it in time.

But the first version is what is in the FRA report as what the engineer told them.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:48 PM

Yes, the official version sounds a little fishy.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:29 PM

I think if I was going to get off the unit like that, I'd give myself "3 step," in which case the engine might have revved up, but it wouldn't have gone anywhere.

I'll sign on with the "sounds fishy" crowd, though.

 

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Posted by THE.RR on Saturday, August 14, 2010 11:13 PM

All right you guys.  Check out the Pentrex video "Working on the Santa Fe" , a series of ATSF training and promo films.  The second film is about yard safety, and has a long session on mounting and dismounting correctly, including showing what happens if you do not do it correctly.

Phil 

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Posted by coborn35 on Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:04 AM
Ed's version is mostly correct, however just a few inaccuracies, per the FRA report. He did not bump the throttle with his hip, he threw it into the 8th notch, thinking he had the Dynos. Clearly wasn't a great engineer if he thought the Dynos would do anything anyway. Train ran away, and was slowed by a brave CSX crew doing about 50mph light engine and couplling to the rear of the train at at speed, and going into full dynamics, allowing a supervisor to climb on at about 10mph.

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

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Posted by ValleyX on Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:01 PM

 Why wouldn't the dynamic do anything, Coburn?  If he had the speed down and good dynamic, it should have brought it right down.  Was it equipped with extended range dynamic?  I don't know.  I've never understood how he slapped it into eight notch power, thinking he'd put it in dynamic. 

 

I've  always thought he wasn't really paying attention and then, there it was, switch lined against him.  Whoops, he thought he could save the situation but what would have been a run-through switch, became a nationwide story.  It sucked to be him THAT day.
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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:04 PM

 We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. 

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:29 PM

zugmann

 We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. 

I am not guessing what happened.  But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible.  Was this incident blamed on the engineer?  If so, what rules were violated?

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Posted by Ray Dunakin on Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:48 PM
A while back my dad was telling me about when he was a brakeman for the Southern Pacific, way back in the winter of 1950-51. He was working up in Oregon and Washington at the time, and had to get on an off moving trains all the time even when coated with ice or snow. He said he liked railroad work but the winters are what made him quit.
 Visit www.raydunakin.com to see pics of the rugged and rocky In-ko-pah Railroad!
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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:07 PM

Bucyrus

zugmann

 We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. 

I am not guessing what happened.  But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible.  Was this incident blamed on the engineer?  If so, what rules were violated?

 

Well, then you are guessing at the plausability at the explanation given.  Second-guessing, if you will.  You say the engineer should have heard the engines throttle up.  But I've seen many engineers deaf as a post. 

 

Anyone ever see a link to a FRA report?  

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 15, 2010 3:59 PM

zugmann

Bucyrus

zugmann

 We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. 

I am not guessing what happened.  But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible.  Was this incident blamed on the engineer?  If so, what rules were violated?

 

Well, then you are guessing at the plausability at the explanation given.  Second-guessing, if you will.  You say the engineer should have heard the engines throttle up.  But I've seen many engineers deaf as a post. 

 

Anyone ever see a link to a FRA report?  

I am just saying that for me the explanation is not plausible.  However, if the official explanation disclosed that the engineer was deaf, then it may be plausible, depending on the rest of the facts.  Maybe the FRA report contains an explanation that I would find thoroughly plausible. 

One thing I would like to know is whether the locomotive was stopped before the engineer got off of it.  If it was stopped, and the engineer inadvertently opened the thottle to notch #8 as he got out of his seat, I would think the locomotive would have begun moving before the engineer hit the ground.  That certainly should have alerted him that something was wrong. 

It seems implausible that the engineer could have gotten so far away from the locomotive before it began to move that the locomotive was able to gain so much speed that the engineer could not have gotten back on. 

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Posted by sandiego on Monday, August 16, 2010 1:23 AM

 

"GETTING OFF MOVING EQUIPMENT METHOD #2:

 

Take your trailing leg off of the engine steps or car stirrup, and cross it over behind your leading leg.  Bend your leading leg to lower your body, and prepare to step onto the ground with your trailing leg.  When your trailing foot impacts the ground, the force will tend to rotate your body away from the equipment.  As it does so, let the rotation disengage your leading foot from the engine steps or car stirrup, while at the same time, let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your leading hand.  As this rotation on your trailing leg continues, bring your leading foot down to the ground to take the next step, and let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your trailing hand."

 

This was the way I was taught on both the CNW and BN, I wouldn't want to try the Method 1 described.

 

I enjoyed getting on and off moving equipment (except at night when trying to board a locomotive run by a hot-shot engineer in a pitch black yard; I wouldn't get on, the engine went by, engineer eventually stopped). It's like riding a bicycle, once you learn you never forget how (although after 15 or so years I would need some practice before getting on or off at 10 MPH again).

 

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Posted by coborn35 on Monday, August 16, 2010 9:24 AM
ValleyX

 Why wouldn't the dynamic do anything, Coburn?  If he had the speed down and good dynamic, it should have brought it right down.  Was it equipped with extended range dynamic?  I don't know.  I've never understood how he slapped it into eight notch power, thinking he'd put it in dynamic. 

 

I've  always thought he wasn't really paying attention and then, there it was, switch lined against him.  Whoops, he thought he could save the situation but what would have been a run-through switch, became a nationwide story.  It sucked to be him THAT day.
He realized they wouldn't stop in time, and threw them into full dynos (actually throttle) while he hopped off and attempted to grab the switch before they ran through.

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 16, 2010 9:41 AM

 How old was this engineer?   One of the newer guys that thinks the big handle will bite?

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by ValleyX on Monday, August 16, 2010 10:49 AM
zugmann

 How old was this engineer?   One of the newer guys that thinks the big handle will bite?

 

zugmann

 How old was this engineer?   One of the newer guys that thinks the big handle will bite?

 

I don't know how old he was but I know he wasn't a beginner and he wasn't a young man. That, from an acquaintance who knows him.
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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 16, 2010 10:58 AM

 Guess he just got fixated on the switch and lost all perspective.  A few small mistakes can lead to some really, really big ones...

 

Of course maybe if certain carriers wouldn't freak out over a simple run-through switch...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by traisessive1 on Monday, August 16, 2010 11:06 AM

CN's GOI still has a whole section about entraining and detraining moving equipment. They permit it up to 4mph. 

On the negative side, CN is probably the only railroad that will discipline an employee for stopping a movement to get on or off - delay to assignment.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, August 16, 2010 1:42 PM

zugmann
   Guess he just got fixated on the switch and lost all perspective.  [snip] 

I understand that when this happens to pilots, the aviation industry refers to it as '' 'head-in-the-cockpit' syndrome''. 

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by enr2099 on Monday, August 16, 2010 3:54 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

 - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year'' - isn't there an ''Hours of Service Law'' up north ?  Mischief 

 

 

No, we have rather archaic work-rest rules compared to the US HOS rules.Our rest clauses are negotiated between the union and the company and varies through different collective agreements. For example an employee working under the BC Rail agreement can take unlimited rest after a shift/trip, whereas a CN employee on the mainline can only take 14 hrs after a yard shift, 24 after a road trip,  or 48 hrs after making 1075 miles.

The work-rest rules allow for 8 hrs rest after working 12 hrs. 

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by traisessive1 on Monday, August 16, 2010 4:11 PM

And in single sub service you can book up to 8 hours rest after 10.

Also, in Canada you can work two back to back road tours ( go off duty and immediately go back on duty ... as long as the first one is not over 10 hours) for a total continous operational time of 18 hours. Working 18 hours straight is a looooong time.

 In yard service you can do two back to back 8 hour shifts for a total of 16 hours continous.

You are also allowed 16 hours continuous in work train service.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by WSOR 3801 on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:53 AM

 I guess it depends on the kind of control stand in the engine in question.  Older ones have one like this:

The throttle lever does power and dynamic.  Selector in the upper right to switch between.  Still should have felt going up through the notches though.

To alleviate such problems, most Dash-2s and newer have separate levers, like this:

The knobs are turned different, go the opposite way, etc.  Easy to tell apart.

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