I can't speak for CN's lines in the USA 'cause I'm not sure.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
traisessive1 Apparently people missed where I put that CN would discipline you if you stopped your train every time you needed to get on and off.
Apparently people missed where I put that CN would discipline you if you stopped your train every time you needed to get on and off.
I caught that, and it is interesting that CN takes that position. But, at what level has elimination of the practice of getting on and off of moving equipment been implemented and by whom? Was this something mandatded by the FRA, or did all the class 1 railroads just decide to outlaw the practice simultaneously? Where does this ruling apply and not apply?
Regarding the elimination of the fatigue of getting on and off of moving equipment that comes from prohibiting it, it almost seems like it would be more work hanging onto a car ladder until it stopped rather than just getting off on the fly when there is no more reason to ride it.
Saw this. To put it lightly is this getting off on the wrong foot?
Thx IGN
OK, I get it now - likewise, I use "square root of 5" as a numerical equivalent of "Whatever . . ." or "Who knows ? . . . " in conversation. Interesting that we would both select Sq Rt expressions . . . - PDN.
You're right: I mised a set of parenthesis.
It was originally a duplicate post. And I'm told it messes up the forum if there's nothing in a post or just simple period, so.....
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Close - I believe the ''2a'' also belongs inside the SqRt parens and is subject to its operation.
But how that 'c' and the quadratic equation relates to anything, I don't 'see' either . . .
- PDN.
Unintended repeat. Nothing to see here.
-b+or-(sqrt(b^2-4ac)/2a)
I think....
Dutchrailnutlets get clear again on just about all American railroads, getting on and off moving equipment is prohibited and a wilfull rule violation. If caught your career is history.
lets get clear again on just about all American railroads, getting on and off moving equipment is prohibited and a wilfull rule violation.
If caught your career is history.
The major roads, many of the msaller roads don't really seem to care (as evident in this thread).
And I've yet to hear of someone being fired for getting on or off moving equipment. Disciplined? Yes. But you can't do much without being disciplined anymore....
So let's not get overly-dramatic.
Yup, all switches flop over at least once!
zugmann Guess he just got fixated on the switch and lost all perspective. A few small mistakes can lead to some really, really big ones... Of course maybe if certain carriers wouldn't freak out over a simple run-through switch...
Guess he just got fixated on the switch and lost all perspective. A few small mistakes can lead to some really, really big ones...
Of course maybe if certain carriers wouldn't freak out over a simple run-through switch...
23 17 46 11
This isn't an issue that's confined just to railroads.
The other day a 'traditional' garbage truck crossed the street in front of me and as soon as it got to the other side, the 2 fellows hanging on the back- "runners" is what they're called locally - dropped off while it was still rolling slowly to a stop, and then threw the stuff from a few cans in. I didn;t stay to watch, but I know from seeing them before that mounting up while the truck is rolling by is also common, particularly after it has turned around, etc. On the other hand, few people ride a garbage truck for a significant portion of their lives, so there may be less risk of long-term joint damage and injuries, etc.
But I wonder if there are any other industries besides railroading and garbage that may involve so much boarding and dismounting of moving equipment as part of their daily operations. Any nominations ?
- Paul North.
Our museum railroad allows getting on and off of moving trains and pretty much everyone does it. I think it's a dangerous practice on that railroad. They give no training at all on the proper way to get on and off of a moving trains, the members that operate the trains don't do it for a full time job, some are only there a time or two a month if that so they tend to be a little rusty when they first start working anyway, and the majority of the members are probably 60 plus (some well past that age) so they aren't in the best of shape to be doing it anyway. Also we don't do much switching and usually run 3 - 4 car trains so the small amount of time it saves isn't worth the risks involved with doing it with an untrained inexperienced crew.
Now, this CSX runaway is starting to sound plausible.
In his book, “CALL THE BIG HOOK,” author Sam Dougherty details the problem of engineers falsely believing they are in dynamic brake mode and mistakenly applying power with the throttle while thinking they are increasing field strength for dynamic braking. Dougherty says this was a common mistake that he had observed engineers making on several occasions. And on several other occasions, this mistake caused wrecks. He goes on to describe the details of one such wreck on the D&RGW near Crater, CO, on 12/25/68, where the engineer mistakenly applied power, causing the train to runaway on a downgrade.
I guess it depends on the kind of control stand in the engine in question. Older ones have one like this:
The throttle lever does power and dynamic. Selector in the upper right to switch between. Still should have felt going up through the notches though.
To alleviate such problems, most Dash-2s and newer have separate levers, like this:
The knobs are turned different, go the opposite way, etc. Easy to tell apart.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
And in single sub service you can book up to 8 hours rest after 10.
Also, in Canada you can work two back to back road tours ( go off duty and immediately go back on duty ... as long as the first one is not over 10 hours) for a total continous operational time of 18 hours. Working 18 hours straight is a looooong time.
In yard service you can do two back to back 8 hour shifts for a total of 16 hours continous.
You are also allowed 16 hours continuous in work train service.
Paul_D_North_Jr - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year'' - isn't there an ''Hours of Service Law'' up north ?
- 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year'' - isn't there an ''Hours of Service Law'' up north ?
No, we have rather archaic work-rest rules compared to the US HOS rules.Our rest clauses are negotiated between the union and the company and varies through different collective agreements. For example an employee working under the BC Rail agreement can take unlimited rest after a shift/trip, whereas a CN employee on the mainline can only take 14 hrs after a yard shift, 24 after a road trip, or 48 hrs after making 1075 miles.
The work-rest rules allow for 8 hrs rest after working 12 hrs.
zugmann Guess he just got fixated on the switch and lost all perspective. [snip]
I understand that when this happens to pilots, the aviation industry refers to it as '' 'head-in-the-cockpit' syndrome''.
CN's GOI still has a whole section about entraining and detraining moving equipment. They permit it up to 4mph.
On the negative side, CN is probably the only railroad that will discipline an employee for stopping a movement to get on or off - delay to assignment.
zugmann How old was this engineer? One of the newer guys that thinks the big handle will bite?
How old was this engineer? One of the newer guys that thinks the big handle will bite?
ValleyX Why wouldn't the dynamic do anything, Coburn? If he had the speed down and good dynamic, it should have brought it right down. Was it equipped with extended range dynamic? I don't know. I've never understood how he slapped it into eight notch power, thinking he'd put it in dynamic. I've always thought he wasn't really paying attention and then, there it was, switch lined against him. Whoops, he thought he could save the situation but what would have been a run-through switch, became a nationwide story. It sucked to be him THAT day.
Why wouldn't the dynamic do anything, Coburn? If he had the speed down and good dynamic, it should have brought it right down. Was it equipped with extended range dynamic? I don't know. I've never understood how he slapped it into eight notch power, thinking he'd put it in dynamic.
I've always thought he wasn't really paying attention and then, there it was, switch lined against him. Whoops, he thought he could save the situation but what would have been a run-through switch, became a nationwide story. It sucked to be him THAT day.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
"GETTING OFF MOVING EQUIPMENT METHOD #2:
Take your trailing leg off of the engine steps or car stirrup, and cross it over behind your leading leg. Bend your leading leg to lower your body, and prepare to step onto the ground with your trailing leg. When your trailing foot impacts the ground, the force will tend to rotate your body away from the equipment. As it does so, let the rotation disengage your leading foot from the engine steps or car stirrup, while at the same time, let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your leading hand. As this rotation on your trailing leg continues, bring your leading foot down to the ground to take the next step, and let go of the engine railing or car ladder rung with your trailing hand."
This was the way I was taught on both the CNW and BN, I wouldn't want to try the Method 1 described.
I enjoyed getting on and off moving equipment (except at night when trying to board a locomotive run by a hot-shot engineer in a pitch black yard; I wouldn't get on, the engine went by, engineer eventually stopped). It's like riding a bicycle, once you learn you never forget how (although after 15 or so years I would need some practice before getting on or off at 10 MPH again).
Kurt Hayek
zugmann Bucyrus zugmann We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. I am not guessing what happened. But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible. Was this incident blamed on the engineer? If so, what rules were violated? Well, then you are guessing at the plausability at the explanation given. Second-guessing, if you will. You say the engineer should have heard the engines throttle up. But I've seen many engineers deaf as a post. Anyone ever see a link to a FRA report?
Bucyrus zugmann We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit. I am not guessing what happened. But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible. Was this incident blamed on the engineer? If so, what rules were violated?
zugmann We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit.
We can armchair quarterback this thing all day... but unless any of us were there - our guesses hold no merit.
I am not guessing what happened. But I can readily determine that none of explanations of what happened that I have heard seem plausible. Was this incident blamed on the engineer? If so, what rules were violated?
Well, then you are guessing at the plausability at the explanation given. Second-guessing, if you will. You say the engineer should have heard the engines throttle up. But I've seen many engineers deaf as a post.
Anyone ever see a link to a FRA report?
I am just saying that for me the explanation is not plausible. However, if the official explanation disclosed that the engineer was deaf, then it may be plausible, depending on the rest of the facts. Maybe the FRA report contains an explanation that I would find thoroughly plausible.
One thing I would like to know is whether the locomotive was stopped before the engineer got off of it. If it was stopped, and the engineer inadvertently opened the thottle to notch #8 as he got out of his seat, I would think the locomotive would have begun moving before the engineer hit the ground. That certainly should have alerted him that something was wrong.
It seems implausible that the engineer could have gotten so far away from the locomotive before it began to move that the locomotive was able to gain so much speed that the engineer could not have gotten back on.
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