...Sure, we too wish a good day for all. Have a bit of fog here this morning, but it's to be sunny when it finally clears. Seasonal temp this morning...Low 40's.
Expect sunny and warmer tomorrow.
Quentin
Happy Thanksgiving everyone...wherever you may be!
samfp1943 Juniatha, said: "...Raymond Loewy : Gee – his metal sculptures certainly had quite a personal touch , for me he reached his eclipse in car sculpturing with the Studebaker Hawk series . And as I wrote in one posting : no , the Lockheed Super Connie did not materialize from Raymond’s drawings . However what he did to the Pennsy S1 already bound to lead a mostly unhappy life that was in my view totally amiss , une grosse fatalité en couture intempestif ! Well , the locomotive – the longest and fastest ever of all express steam locomotives – had eventually been scrapped … Absolutely correct about the Pennsy S-1, but Loewy's designs still live in the Paint scheme of the 747 Air Force 1. and in the Baldwin 'Shark noses' (admittedly stil sequestered in that building in Michigan (?). and he also designed the former MoPac logo "Screaming Eagle" as well.
Juniatha, said:
"...Raymond Loewy : Gee – his metal sculptures certainly had quite a personal touch , for me he reached his eclipse in car sculpturing with the Studebaker Hawk series . And as I wrote in one posting : no , the Lockheed Super Connie did not materialize from Raymond’s drawings . However what he did to the Pennsy S1 already bound to lead a mostly unhappy life that was in my view totally amiss , une grosse fatalité en couture intempestif !
Well , the locomotive – the longest and fastest ever of all express steam locomotives – had eventually been scrapped …
Absolutely correct about the Pennsy S-1, but Loewy's designs still live in the Paint scheme of the 747 Air Force 1. and in the Baldwin 'Shark noses' (admittedly stil sequestered in that building in Michigan (?). and he also designed the former MoPac logo "Screaming Eagle" as well.
.....And he had his designing thoughts and work in all kinds of stuff....Even the Carlings Beer Bottle label.
I really thought the creations he designed looked great....Loved Art-Deco. Still do.
Juniatha:
Yes, the Hawk series...As you can see from my "modelcar" ID, I might have model cars, and we do here in our home office. Right above me I have a line up of "fifties" car models. Among others.
One is a '53 Studebaker Starliner, still a beautiful low profile coupe.
Another is the Golden Hawk with the supercharger assisted engine.
Speaking of car designs: Take a peek at the new Chevy Caprice Police PPV car import via GM from Australia. Saw my first one this week.
I really didn't expect to see them here yet. You can find a dozen or so photos of it in a GM website. Hope they get a civilian version to market soon.
Again, for style in Locomotives, I don't expect to see much emphases applied to sharp styling in our near future.
But I do wonder what the new {next generation}, Amtrak power might look like if Congress doesn't kill the whole system first.
Sure would be nice if our {American Co.}, here in Muncie, could get the contract to build them when / if, they do become reality.
Hi Modelcar
>> As for engineering, I believe engineering the operation capibilities of the new engines are probably world class. Example: Wheel slippage, fuel consumsion, reliability, and so much one does not see as it passes by. <<
Sure , absolutely ! ( you have modern high traction diesel locos in mind – I have modern high output synchronous electrics in mind , yet each for it’s purpose involves a lot of brain work in engineering )
That’s the tragedy :
the content is excellent , however the packing is so-so , no-so or even no-no and in my personal view again this applies to both sorts of locomotives – and you can see equivalent deterioration of style in automobile and yacht design – tech-no-logical tragedy !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6M_bdmKbeA&feature=related
Raymond Loewy : Gee – his metal sculptures certainly had quite a personal touch , for me he reached his eclipse in car sculpturing with the Studebaker Hawk series . And as I wrote in one posting : no , the Lockheed Super Connie did not materialize from Raymond’s drawings . However what he did to the Pennsy S1 already bound to lead a mostly unhappy life that was in my view totally amiss , une grosse fatalité en couture intempestif !
… which leaves us with the task of reversing this formidable historical error …
( the Brits have done it with ‘Tornado’ , now can we stand behind ? ‘course not , I say !) …
… however , this time dressed in vastly improved haute couture styling , please !
Regards
Juniatha
And Raymond Loewy was one of the best Industrial designers....He produced many beautiful items. In the automotive industry as well...Even some furniture....I've read of him doing the trash cans in the late Great Penn Station in NYC.
And of course just one example in the auto world was the design of the Avanti.
Juniatha @ Modelcar: >> Much of modern railroad engine design / construction now dictated by $$$$ << .. or €€€€ in no different ways – sure . Yet , I refuse this excuse for what results from indifferent or even appallingly unaspiring plain levels of engineering . After all , the ‘face’ of an electric locomotive is the first thing , an identification mark , waiting travellers at the platform see of their train coming in – there should be a minimum of pleasing and inviting attractiveness about it : an air of dynamic locomotion , blended with comforting solidity and railroadish trustworthiness , , all in an overall expression of technical state of the art fast yet easy travelling . What railway management often seem to miss : * these are times when travellers have got options to choose from , * decisions on travelling by road , by air or by rail are not just made upon strictly rational considerations but at least to some degree upon ‘liking’ – why , car advertisings are all about that ! Some railway management still seems think in terms of old pre-competition times when a railway could tell travellers when to go , what to pay and possibly where to end up, too . Those times are long since gone . It sure is an engineering challenge to put up a design with an expression , without busting the budget , yet it can be done with a little extra effort of imaginative thinking . Elvis : his performances in his early years were something of its own , at that time he seems to have been a cheerful unassuming character and – all in all – a nice guy . He was singing his way because singing was his way of feeling alive . Sadly , he changed later on – or the music business changed him , on the other hand he allowed to become distorted . The end was an unfitting one . Regards Juniatha
@ Modelcar:
>> Much of modern railroad engine design / construction now dictated by $$$$ <<
.. or €€€€ in no different ways – sure . Yet , I refuse this excuse for what results from indifferent or even appallingly unaspiring plain levels of engineering . After all , the ‘face’ of an electric locomotive is the first thing , an identification mark , waiting travellers at the platform see of their train coming in – there should be a minimum of pleasing and inviting attractiveness about it : an air of dynamic locomotion , blended with comforting solidity and railroadish trustworthiness , , all in an overall expression of technical state of the art fast yet easy travelling .
What railway management often seem to miss :
* these are times when travellers have got options to choose from ,
* decisions on travelling by road , by air or by rail are not just made upon strictly rational considerations but at least to some degree upon ‘liking’ – why , car advertisings are all about that ! Some railway management still seems think in terms of old pre-competition times when a railway could tell travellers when to go , what to pay and possibly where to end up, too . Those times are long since gone .
It sure is an engineering challenge to put up a design with an expression , without busting the budget , yet it can be done with a little extra effort of imaginative thinking .
Elvis : his performances in his early years were something of its own , at that time he seems to have been a cheerful unassuming character and – all in all – a nice guy . He was singing his way because singing was his way of feeling alive . Sadly , he changed later on – or the music business changed him , on the other hand he allowed to become distorted . The end was an unfitting one .
Juniatha.....I agree with most of what you related on the railroad styling and engineering. As for engineering, I believe engineering the operation capibilities of the new engines are probably world class. Example: Wheel slippage, fuel consumsion, reliability, and so much one does not see as it passes by.
But for the appearance of these creations...it seems streamlining or "designs" are not the top priority they {RR Companies}, care to pay for. And it seems...sadly, they care not what passengers think of their operations and lack of incentives to court passengers
Major railroads wanted out of the passenger business back when...Well, Amtak was created to try to retain some semblance of passenger service.
We do seem to have interest in many cities with light rail to move the workforce and of course others as well.
I wish we had more passenger service in this country, and somehow a much better network of rail lines to work with....I wonder if politicians are even going to allow HSR to get a foot hold....Believe the jury is still out on even that...Guess we can hope it might happen some day.
Elvis. He came to a sad ending. Seems, considering from where he came from, and the acceptance he attained, and all the notoriety it produced....I believe it got to the point of getting out of control for him and he just was brought down from all of what it took to continue. Very sad, in my opinion, he was one of the best and produced some beautiful music. The live program we saw...was awesome...!
Even the stodgy old Pennsylvania Railroad in the Depression years of the 1930's had the good sense to hire an industrial designer for its new mainline electric locomotive. That was a relatively young and inexperienced fellow by the name of Raymond Loewy, who went on to fame and fortune based on his aerodynamic Art-Deco styling of the GG1, and later the PRR's S1 split-drive steam locomotive - see: http://www.raymondloewy.com/ (As you'll see, he also designed/ styled a few cars, and had some things to say about them, too . . . : http://www.raymondloewy.com/about/quotesby.html - "There are great moments in a man's life . . ." [about the GG1].)
- Paul North.
It seems all the modern passenger locomotives are designed by Cesar Vergara. He has EMD, GE, MPI, and Brookville as clients. The new NJ transit ALP45DP built in Germany is also his design.
....Much of modern railroad engine design / construction now dictated by $$$$.
Item: We now have a brand new business, "Progress Rail" building railroad engines now here in Muncie. Parent Co., Caterpillar.
By the way....my '55 Bel Air hardtop was the famous beige and red, and even had the optional {Continental spare}, an option from Chevy at the time.....
And Elvis......What an entertainer...! Great singer / performer. Saw live performance of he and great orchestra at the {then}, International Hotel in Vegas in 1970....Wonderful performance.
The ’55 Chevy , in my view , sure was one honest , straight-forward automobile . From all that’s told of it , the car was solidly build and long lasting . Ironically , it had a much better miles to the gallon ratio than 1970s Chevy sedans , the later cars having become overloaded with auxiliaries and amenities . I saw a white / red ‘55 on a classic car show and it’s lines still looked sound and quite agreeable today – when it lasts though time , I think that tells of an inherent ‘rightness’ in a design and it may become timeless , iconic . Only , when I see a ’55 Chevy I can’t help young Elvis springing up in my mind – dunno , it’s somehow in the way he smiled : It’s now or never – Elvis Presley ( and , yes , if his voice didn't have that 'V-8 vibe' then I don’t know ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAe1WRCXH0&feature=related The Aero Train – well , one thing’s for sure : you really can’t say they didn’t venture into some of the more daring kind of designs . On the photo it looks stylish , optimistic , futuristic in it’s time – wish there would be some more imaginative styling in shapes and color schemes of today’s modern electric locomotives and high speed trains – yet , apart from rationally evolved streamlining and some slightly extravagant coloring of the SNCF TGV and a subtle individual note in head end contours of ÖBB 1016 (‘Taurus’) Bo-Bo synchronous electrics there is little expression in shapes of modern rail power and trains , very little expression indeed ! Regards Juniatha
The ’55 Chevy , in my view , sure was one honest , straight-forward automobile . From all that’s told of it , the car was solidly build and long lasting . Ironically , it had a much better miles to the gallon ratio than 1970s Chevy sedans , the later cars having become overloaded with auxiliaries and amenities . I saw a white / red ‘55 on a classic car show and it’s lines still looked sound and quite agreeable today – when it lasts though time , I think that tells of an inherent ‘rightness’ in a design and it may become timeless , iconic .
Only , when I see a ’55 Chevy I can’t help young Elvis springing up in my mind – dunno , it’s somehow in the way he smiled : It’s now or never – Elvis Presley ( and , yes , if his voice didn't have that 'V-8 vibe' then I don’t know )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAe1WRCXH0&feature=related
The Aero Train – well , one thing’s for sure : you really can’t say they didn’t venture into some of the more daring kind of designs . On the photo it looks stylish , optimistic , futuristic in it’s time – wish there would be some more imaginative styling in shapes and color schemes of today’s modern electric locomotives and high speed trains – yet , apart from rationally evolved streamlining and some slightly extravagant coloring of the SNCF TGV and a subtle individual note in head end contours of ÖBB 1016 (‘Taurus’) Bo-Bo synchronous electrics there is little expression in shapes of modern rail power and trains , very little expression indeed !
Victrola1 Old drivers I have talked with praise the '55-'57 Chevy as the pinnacle of General Motors automotive success. Was the Aerotrain an omen of the Chevy Vega and subsequent decline to come?
Old drivers I have talked with praise the '55-'57 Chevy as the pinnacle of General Motors automotive success. Was the Aerotrain an omen of the Chevy Vega and subsequent decline to come?
'55 - 57 Chevy's.....A massive change occured when these cars were introduced....Completely all new..! Chassis....engine / powertrain....and of course body.
I loved the one's I had.....{"55 Bel Air hardtop w/ power pac 180 engine, and a '57 black Corvette, both tops}....I believe everyone is building the best cars {overall}, currently. But the former ones were a giant step forward.
I suppose that's a pretty good comparison....Vega & Aerotrain. Aerotrain was an experiment of something different...{so was Vega}....A T was actually constructed with parts of GM bus bodies....Understand they were rough riding too. {Had a Vega too....a GT wagon}.
Victrola1 http://www.gmphotostore.com/1955-GM-Aerotrain/productinfo/53217854/ A '56 Chevy Bel Air on steel wheels and steroids?
http://www.gmphotostore.com/1955-GM-Aerotrain/productinfo/53217854/
A '56 Chevy Bel Air on steel wheels and steroids?
The Aerotrain......I had one chance to ride that train back about 1958. Traveling into Pittsburgh, from the southwest, we were scheduled to catch the Aerotrain from the station there to Johnstown...Was excited we'd have a chance to experience this one of a kind operation.
Train time....And we advanced to the platform and behold....a regular passenger train was in place to take us east...! As we boarded and found a seat, we noted a paper on each seat. Item: {paraphrasing}, "We apologize for not providing the Aerotrain today. It is scheduled one day each month to be pulled off for maintenance. It will return tomorrow at it's normal schedule: What a disappointment....!!! And we all know it didn't last too long until it was removed from service on that route. Hence, I really never did see it in it's reality.
Juniatha Just in case someone would ask „What’s the attraction in these cars“ – the answer is all comprised in that deep lush energetic sound when he starts the 1960 Corvette – a sound that goes directly to the heart , it does not care to stop at reasoning , it skips calculation , it scorns efficiency , instead it lights up emotion with a warm purple hug . Personally , I’m more inclined to Chrysler cars , yet if Chevy , I have a latent although necessarily theoretical affection to the ’59 gull wing – by modern standards it’s a simply irresponsible design , daringly independent from down-to-earth rational thinking – yet unbelievably imaginative , joyfully enchanting and softly floating – a sculptural expression of care-free holiday’s cruising . Ok , I’ll stop it here before you call me irresponsible in view of threatening problems of traffic congestions , globalization and energy crisis … Regards Juniatha
I can speak for the "gull wing '59".....Had a light green 59 convertible, with the 348 and 3 2's.
Item: blew girl friends hat out on one occasion with the top down, and just a bit too much speed. It certinly would run on top end....
Just in case someone would ask „What’s the attraction in these cars“ – the answer is all comprised in that deep lush energetic sound when he starts the 1960 Corvette – a sound that goes directly to the heart , it does not care to stop at reasoning , it skips calculation , it scorns efficiency , instead it lights up emotion with a warm purple hug .
Personally , I’m more inclined to Chrysler cars , yet if Chevy , I have a latent although necessarily theoretical affection to the ’59 gull wing – by modern standards it’s a simply irresponsible design , daringly independent from down-to-earth rational thinking – yet unbelievably imaginative , joyfully enchanting and softly floating – a sculptural expression of care-free holiday’s cruising .
Ok , I’ll stop it here before you call me irresponsible in view of threatening problems of traffic congestions , globalization and energy crisis …
AgentKid Holy Moly!!! Is that ever a nice bunch of cars. I'll take 25 or 30, please. And a 1928 if you have one. My Grandparents had one, and I've seen pictures of it. Bruce
Holy Moly!!! Is that ever a nice bunch of cars. I'll take 25 or 30, please. And a 1928 if you have one. My Grandparents had one, and I've seen pictures of it.
Bruce
A 1928 model Chevy....Believe that would have been the last year for the Chevy 4 cyl....The stove bolt six followed the very next year.
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Murray Quentin...found something else I thought you'd find interesting: http://www.kcci.com/video/17108703/detail.html
Quentin...found something else I thought you'd find interesting:
Murray..........You sure do pick the "cream of the crop". That really would be a treat to walk thru such a display. Noted a few I had back in the years....Thanks for sharing.
http://www.kcci.com/video/17108703/detail.html
Murray "A Quest for Corvettes Just as the Factory Built Them" Quentin...you should enjoy this! (From Today's New York Times) http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/automobiles/a-quest-for-corvettes-just-as-the-factory-built-them.html?_r=1&ref=automobiles
"A Quest for Corvettes Just as the Factory Built Them"
Quentin...you should enjoy this!
(From Today's New York Times)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/automobiles/a-quest-for-corvettes-just-as-the-factory-built-them.html?_r=1&ref=automobiles
Yes, Murray...we did enjoy the Corvette article. And especially so, as my favorite Vet was the '57 model. Perhaps because I had one, but realistically....looking back even now, I still think "that" was really a Corvette....! Loved it's looks.
An ELECTRIC Rolls-Royce:
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/driving-the-rolls-royce-102ex-phantom-experimental-electric/?ref=automobiles
The first Subaru Automobile:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/automobiles/dreadful-debut-for-subaru.html?_r=1&ref=automobiles
I have to second al-in-chgo's sentiments.
One can only hope that some savvy operator can figure out that there is a market for travel -- not just cruises, but have-to-get-there travel -- that is efficient, and comfortable, graceful, and elegant. Travel that actually provides -- as henry6 keeps reminding us -- a service, and treat us as respected passengers, not just another type of cargo.
I firmly believe that there coiuld be a market for such a travel service (rail, bus, or air -- though I would prefer rail!), and whoever can figure out how to provide it, will do well.
Thank you, samfp! It needed saying, IMO. I agree with you.
Thanks, Murray!
Those days of travel were something to remember! It was an occasion to travel ( folks actually dressed UP to get on a plane (and Train). Now days the airlines are not much better than flying 'cattle cars': Greyhounds buses,(only much worse) in the sky. Passengers are treated awfully. Like masochists in search of sadists
Truly, it is a shame that the younger generations will never know traveling pleasures. The airport lobbies look more like refugee centers, rather than, a launching site for some interesting travel experience. . And then there is the added insult of being fondled (by a total stranger) and not even being offered a kiss as you leave, because you family cannot be close to see you off.
(Sorry, I'm venting!)
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