Fred Frailey: "Seven ways to become a better railfan"

[Anonymous]

I find the tone of the whole column to be rather preachy.  Mr. Frailey stereotypes railfans and railroaders by suggesting that the latter all regard the former as lazy, uninformed, know-it-alls.  Frankly, I don’t believe his antidote about his friend who works for a Class-I railroad in a mid-level management position having been driven off forums because there are too many stupid people there.

[CShaveRR]

henry6

I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans. There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

Not being a mind reader (especially when I have only the words to go by), I'm not sure Fred Frailey was thinking this way. But if he wasn't he should have been! I'm sure that if I had any confidence in my own abilities as a photographer, I'd have a camera with me at work, on trips, and wherever I was likely to encounter a train. I do carry a pad and pen (unless I've forgotten them!) with which to note interesting aspects of the equipment I see, and I suppose that's my "camera". For me, the experience itself is the thing I take away--be it the people I'm with, what I've seen, or how I feel when I've seen it (crass, but I won't fondly remember being stuck at a grade crossing with a full bladder, regardless of whether it was a steam-powered circus train going by!). Memories without photographs can still be great, but a photograph without the memory, though evocative, is still just a picture.

[tree68]

Convicted One

Where I work, if some stranger showed up at my jobsite, set up some fairly sophisticated camera gear, and started snapping away, I'd be put on the defensive.

As I've mentioned before - one place I "work," it's very common to have someone show up taking pictures and videos, and not just from the news media.  In fact, odds are I'm going to ask them for a copy, especially if it's a major event.

That would be firefighting.

We take pride in what we've accomplished, and if something goes wrong, we're all over those pictures and videos to figure out what happened and how we can prevent it.

In other words, we embrace it.

We know it's a two-edged sword.  The video that ends up on YouTube might be a glowing tribute to our trade, or might show us doing something we wish wouldn't see the light of day.

To complicate things for the photographer, we might declare a previously "public" area as out-of-bounds for safety reasons.

Beyond that and in particular reference to the comments I made earlier, same guy goes out and sets up the same sophisticated equipment at the end of some bridge, waits 40 minutes for a freight toshow up...then spends 3 minutes snapping pictures,....and then waits 2 more hours for the next freight, snapping six more, and then goes home.....he's spent half a day, and for what? a dozen pictures that are uncannily similar to the dozen he shot at the same location the weekend before,...and the  weekend before that... and the weekend before that...etc? 

On the other hand, he might have as a goal getting pictures of as many different locomotives as possible.  What seems like a waste of time to you has been very productive for him.

Some people keep track car or locomotive information.  Instead of taking pictures, they've got a notebook in their hand and they're busily taking notes on the passing train.  It's what they do and how they enjoy the hobby. 

In both cases, just standing trackside, watching trains go by would be a tremendous waste of time.

[blownout cylinder]

henry6

I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans.

Yeah well I did get a few people jump on me over the fact that I had a camera--"Why didn't you leave it at home?" And they meant it, literally.

henry6

There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

OK. When you are "with the moment" are you standing there talking to your railfan brother about what you and your wife are having tomorrow at so and so's place? I'd say no. Yet some other people would say yes. Primary reason? The camera is not involved. That is a strange kind of In The Moment. As long as the camera is not there you are in the moment. You can do everything else--be talking to one another while the train you were there for goes by but you were In The Moment while doing so.

I can be just as In The Moment as the next guy. Just because I have a camera and I use the dang thing--hey, I catch my memories on film as well as in my heart/brain--does not mean that, therefore I am NOT in the moment.

BTW---just to flummox the thing. I know someone who has short term memory issues. This fellow loves his trains. The way he does this is by photography. Last winter his family went to Hawaii. He has some neat shots of several trains you would not find here. The dangest thing about all this is that he was consistantly poked at because he used a camera and was therefore not really paying attention to what he was "Really Seeing".

We need to understand where each of us comes from and how each of us are truly "in the moment" in our own way---there really is no ONE way---

[Deggesty]

henry6

Most important to being a railfan is the difference between when we of the older generation came along as opposed to today's railfan.  We had our people.  Dozens of them.  The station agent, the local train crew, the interlocking operator, the trainmaster, the yardmaster, the crews on the many passenger trains, the crossing guard or watchman, the track foreman, so many more.  We got to know them, they got to know us, they got us to know railroading like today's railfan can't.

Quite true, Henry! I could not count the opportunities I had to talk with trainmen and station agents; once I even sold tickets when the operator was busy. And, for the nine years that I had the AT&N just outside my backyard, I not only talked with the crews, I worked with them. Now, I have had some opportunites to talk with Amtrak trainmen, but these do not come often. In our four trips between Vancouver and Toronto, I recall two opportunities to talk with the conductor. The first came while the conductors still rode the cars; the second one came when we were making the backup move after leaving Toronto on a westbound trip.

Johnny

[Convicted One]

tree68

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

 

(Just guessing) Since his general "thrust" this month seems aimed at fostering better relations with his "inside the industry" chums, let's look at his comment from that aspect.

Where I work, if some stranger showed up at my jobsite, set up some fairly sophisticated camera gear, and started snapping away, I'd be put on the defensive. I'd be forced to assume that some lawyer was fishing for "slip and fall" support for a client, or some other liability...or that perhaps my own employer had hired a snooping service. Either way the presence constitutes a potential nuisance that interferes with the quiet, productivity conducive environment that I'd prefer to maintain whenever possible. So, I can understand Fred's suggestion on that basis.

Beyond that and in particular reference to the comments I made earlier, same guy goes out and sets up the same sophisticated equipment at the end of some bridge, waits 40 minutes for a freight toshow up...then spends 3 minutes snapping pictures,....and then waits 2 more hours for the next freight, snapping six more, and then goes home.....he's spent half a day, and for what? a dozen pictures that are uncannily similar to the dozen he shot at the same location the weekend before,...and the  weekend before that... and the weekend before that...etc?  Sure, I guess you can argue that each opportunity presented unique lighting challenges for him to apply his skill and knowledgebase to overcome, but then the guy is more a camera buff ...than railfan. Not that there is anything wrong with that,  per se, but I just think Fred is warning us not to fall into that rut.

[henry6]

I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans. There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

[schlimm]

blownout cylinder

I often wondered why there is this idea that to really enjoy trains the camera should stay at home.

 

I agree.  Sounds like one of those statements that sounds catchy, to be put in a list, like Letterman.  Standing around with the camera up to your eye the whole time is one thing; having one around your neck, in a pocket or in a bag to be used p.r.n., is quite a different matter.

[htgguy]

blhanel

htgguy

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

You know Mike?  I met him at the Izaak Walton Inn back last August- he rode out there on Amtrak.  I certainly have to agree with you there, I've made some great friends!

I know Mike-he is a great guy to railfan with.

http://look4trains.com/2010/01/brrr.html

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026630&id=1306926001&l=aa0fc77b10#!/photo.php?pid=30436721&id=1306926001&fbid=1177551961426

For me, another example of the best part of railfanning-spending time with people who share your interest out along the tracks, and sharing what you have seen and photographed with them when they are not there.

Jim

[blownout cylinder]

tree68

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

I often wondered why there is this idea that to really enjoy trains the camera should stay at home. I've seen other people have camera in hand and really notice all kinds of stuff going on and not have to push the button. Camera was still there but they chose not to use it at that time.

This made me think, too, that one can be there without the camera and yet not really be there as well. Whether I have a camera or not has little bearing on whether I'm 'Really There". I can be someplace that is really cool and yet be thinking --"did I turn off the TV"---am I Really There? In the moment? Not particularly---- I just love it when one thinks a piece of technology and its usage is deemed not in the moment when it is in fact that person, themselves, that is having the issue. Whether the camera is there or not is totally besides the point.

A case of thinking other than either/or

[blhanel]

htgguy

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

You know Mike?  I met him at the Izaak Walton Inn back last August- he rode out there on Amtrak.  I certainly have to agree with you there, I've made some great friends!

[henry6]

And Jim, lets not forget the thousands of books available in libraries and owned by other railfans, plus the historical societies and model clubs devoted to trains.  And just plain watching trains.

[tree68]

henry6

But Tree, you went to a special even designed for photography.

Conway Scenic, yes.  Owosso, yes.  Deshler, on the other hand (or Utica) is simply a place to watch trains. 

I don't grab the camera every time I see a train, but if I'm actively watching, the camera is near.

[htgguy]

Well, sadly, I don't have the January issue. However, from reading your roundup, an important thought occurs to me.

In my mind, one of the most important things I can do to be a "better" railfan is to share-share information, share photos, share knowledge, share experiences. Now I know that I am much more knowledgable of operations on my local lines (BNSF Staples and Brainerd Sub), as well as other areas that I have had the opportunity to visit such as Marias Pass, the Powder River Basin, Boone, CP River Sub, former DMIR trackage, and on and on, than I would have been without the generosity of those who are more familiar with the areas than I. That has made my railfanning more enjoyable, more efficient, and safer, since I know where I can safely get photos or views that I am looking for rather than just charging in without knowledge.

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

http://look4trains.com/2009/06/verndale-rail-2009.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railtalk/3646323700/

So I would add the sharing of resources and information, and the resulting relationships developed along the tracks as something that makes you a better railfan. Just my opinion.

And if anyone is interested in an event like this, we will likely be doing it again, very possibly June 19, 2010.

Jim

[henry6]

But Tree, you went to a special even designed for photography.  What Frailey, me, and others are talking about is going to the railroad to ride or to just watch without camera in hand.  I know I've seen a lot more railroading, broader scenes, more action, with my eyes instead of peeking through view finders, focusing and f-stopping, the winding and winding again.  No.  Fan trips, railfan weekends, night photo ops, etc. are all for the fun of photography.  So do it and don't feel bad.  And while even these events might be enjoyed differently without the camera, certainly to learn the day to day duties, operatons, and people, of everyday railroading, leaving the camera home or in the bag even just once, might really be an eye opener!

[tree68]

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

When I was at Deshler last summer, the video camera went on a tripod.  I usually caught a still or two of the trains as well, but now I've got both to refresh my memory.  And had I not been taking pictures, I wouldn't have gotten the video of those five switchers DIT behind the head end power.   Actually, I didn't get a still of that - we'd just gotten drenched and the Rebel was misbehaving.

The rest I can agree with.

[henry6]

The two easiest ways today to be a railfan appear to be either purchashing ready made models or toys or to take pictures.  Now, don't come down on me on anything, I'm not opposed to either nor do I look down on either.  I admire modelers, those who spend so much time with so much skill to recreate or outright create scenes and scenerios; I don't have the skill or the patience.  Picture taking, I am not as patient with.  I used to be a rabid photographer.  But that was only part of bieng a fan then.  Today, however, there seems to be a group who think you are only a railfan if you take pictures.  Lots of pictures.  Or is it lots of shot of the same picture.  No, Fred Frailey is pretty much right, that picture taking is not all there is to railfanning: there is history, corporate history, anichdotal history, people, jobs, operations, those who like only one railroad or only one segment of one railroad, or railroads of one state or other geographical constraint.  Actually I could probably go on to hundreds of things that could define a railfan's interest.  Just look at the various subjects, posts, threads, etc. on the Kalmbach pages alone. But also sometimes it seems that fewer take the time to step back and look at the whole picture nor do they tolerate the other views.

 I like the train riding part of Mr. Frailey's list.  But I don't like his restriction of "ride Amtrak".  Understood, probably the broad picture of railroading and railfans would capture Amtrak somewhere nearby.  But it probably is not practical because there are too few trains in the system for a day trip for many and too expensive.  With my Ride With Me Henry program several friends accompany me on trips riding commuter trains in the New York Metropolitan area after a three hour drive to the nearest MNRR or NJT station. But we will spend the whole day riding hundreds of miles and see thousands of real railroad occurances of equipment, crafts, skills, layouts, operations, and more in real railroad operations scenerios.  It is fun, relaxing, informative, and very railfan.  So many fans live within commuting zones but don't think about riding the trains.  And there are more who, like us, live a modest driving distance from the trains. The important point is that such riding is more available than one would think.

Most important to being a railfan is the difference between when we of the older generation came along as opposed to today's railfan.  We had our people.  Dozens of them.  The station agent, the local train crew, the interlocking operator, the trainmaster, the yardmaster, the crews on the many passenger trains, the crossing guard or watchman, the track foreman, so many more.  We got to know them, they got to know us, they got us to know railroading like today's railfan can't.  So while I am not overly impressed with the picture taking only contingent, I also understand, and point out to others, without the people we had, the only way they can be a railfan is by taking pictures!  I just hope enough of them learn that picture taking isn't the only thing that can make them a railfan.

[Convicted One]

When reading this editorial in the January issue, several items struck a chord with me, and I was just wondering if the same could be said for some of the rest of you? Some hit the nail pretty squarely on the head,while others seemed to veer a bit. A synopsis follows for reference: (my thoughts in green immediately after each bullet)

1. Get off your rear ends- get out and experience the hobby first hand  (excellent advice! sitting and reading second hand accounts only goes so far, and  very little can compare to real world exposure)

2. Be better informed-get a scanner & some timetables (excellent advice once again!! it ALWAYS pays to be more informed as opposed to less, and following the tips he offers here provide the best guideline to what this hobby offers)

3. Shut up,-no one cares about your personal opinions  ( well, I'd sure like to thank Fred for sharing his opinion here, obviously there are some very real perils when one chooses to talk in terms of absolutes)

4. Leave your camera at home, -our interests in the hobby should be deeper than our slide collection (here's one that I'll bet left some of you feeling betrayed? But he touches on an area that I have often wondered about. You go to these online RR picture galleries, and see that the same guy has been going to the same spot, and taking the same pictures, FOR DECADES!!  with very little, if anything, different  from picture to picture except perhaps the numbers on the Locomotive numberboards, and the size of the trees in the background.  Makes you wonder sometimes how the first 10 SD40-2's to have been photo'ed crossing over a certain bridge are that much different than the subsequent 80 this same guy has  since photo'ed over the years)

5. Use common sense online,- protect your sources  (It never ceases to amaze me how some guys will name drop so freely, with [seemingly] very little thought as to whether they are wizzing in their own drinking trough, or who they might be laying out for reprisal)

6. Accept that you don't know everything  (How very true!  In fact most of what I have learned has been the result of someone being willing to take the time and correct some of the misgiven notions I've gathered elsewhere, and I'm always grateful when this happens. But trying to guess what he might be getting at here, I don't understand why with some folks, they get angry when presented with the opportunity to learn?)

7. Never become a part of the action,. be careful!!  (I'm sure each of us here has had a "whew!!' moment that we would just as soon not have to think about.  Much of this comes from our constant flirtation with trespassing, and how, despite our understanding  of just how wrong doing so is, many persist regardless.  Is this because we have a tendancy to make unethical allowances to suit our own immediate desires as individuals [the "oh, no one will ever know besides me" mentality] or are we truly self destructive, by nature?)

Anybody else have any thoughts that came to mind while reading the article in question?