Trains.com

Fred Frailey: "Seven ways to become a better railfan"

19799 views
136 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Fred Frailey: "Seven ways to become a better railfan"
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, February 6, 2010 5:26 PM

When reading this editorial in the January issue, several items struck a chord with me, and I was just wondering if the same could be said for some of the rest of you? Some hit the nail pretty squarely on the head,while others seemed to veer a bit. A synopsis follows for reference: (my thoughts in green immediately after each bullet)

1. Get off your rear ends- get out and experience the hobby first hand  (excellent advice! sitting and reading second hand accounts only goes so far, and  very little can compare to real world exposure)

2. Be better informed-get a scanner & some timetables (excellent advice once again!! it ALWAYS pays to be more informed as opposed to less, and following the tips he offers here provide the best guideline to what this hobby offers)

3. Shut up,-no one cares about your personal opinions  ( well, I'd sure like to thank Fred for sharing his opinion here, obviously there are some very real perils when one chooses to talk in terms of absolutes)

4. Leave your camera at home, -our interests in the hobby should be deeper than our slide collection (here's one that I'll bet left some of you feeling betrayed? But he touches on an area that I have often wondered about. You go to these online RR picture galleries, and see that the same guy has been going to the same spot, and taking the same pictures, FOR DECADES!!  with very little, if anything, different  from picture to picture except perhaps the numbers on the Locomotive numberboards, and the size of the trees in the background.  Makes you wonder sometimes how the first 10 SD40-2's to have been photo'ed crossing over a certain bridge are that much different than the subsequent 80 this same guy has  since photo'ed over the years)

5. Use common sense online,- protect your sources  (It never ceases to amaze me how some guys will name drop so freely, with [seemingly] very little thought as to whether they are wizzing in their own drinking trough, or who they might be laying out for reprisal)

6. Accept that you don't know everything  (How very true!  In fact most of what I have learned has been the result of someone being willing to take the time and correct some of the misgiven notions I've gathered elsewhere, and I'm always grateful when this happens. But trying to guess what he might be getting at here, I don't understand why with some folks, they get angry when presented with the opportunity to learn?)

7. Never become a part of the action,. be careful!!  (I'm sure each of us here has had a "whew!!' moment that we would just as soon not have to think about.  Much of this comes from our constant flirtation with trespassing, and how, despite our understanding  of just how wrong doing so is, many persist regardless.  Is this because we have a tendancy to make unethical allowances to suit our own immediate desires as individuals [the "oh, no one will ever know besides me" mentality] or are we truly self destructive, by nature?)

Anybody else have any thoughts that came to mind while reading the article in question?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 6:29 PM

The two easiest ways today to be a railfan appear to be either purchashing ready made models or toys or to take pictures.  Now, don't come down on me on anything, I'm not opposed to either nor do I look down on either.  I admire modelers, those who spend so much time with so much skill to recreate or outright create scenes and scenerios; I don't have the skill or the patience.  Picture taking, I am not as patient with.  I used to be a rabid photographer.  But that was only part of bieng a fan then.  Today, however, there seems to be a group who think you are only a railfan if you take pictures.  Lots of pictures.  Or is it lots of shot of the same picture.  No, Fred Frailey is pretty much right, that picture taking is not all there is to railfanning: there is history, corporate history, anichdotal history, people, jobs, operations, those who like only one railroad or only one segment of one railroad, or railroads of one state or other geographical constraint.  Actually I could probably go on to hundreds of things that could define a railfan's interest.  Just look at the various subjects, posts, threads, etc. on the Kalmbach pages alone. But also sometimes it seems that fewer take the time to step back and look at the whole picture nor do they tolerate the other views.

 I like the train riding part of Mr. Frailey's list.  But I don't like his restriction of "ride Amtrak".  Understood, probably the broad picture of railroading and railfans would capture Amtrak somewhere nearby.  But it probably is not practical because there are too few trains in the system for a day trip for many and too expensive.  With my Ride With Me Henry program several friends accompany me on trips riding commuter trains in the New York Metropolitan area after a three hour drive to the nearest MNRR or NJT station. But we will spend the whole day riding hundreds of miles and see thousands of real railroad occurances of equipment, crafts, skills, layouts, operations, and more in real railroad operations scenerios.  It is fun, relaxing, informative, and very railfan.  So many fans live within commuting zones but don't think about riding the trains.  And there are more who, like us, live a modest driving distance from the trains. The important point is that such riding is more available than one would think.

Most important to being a railfan is the difference between when we of the older generation came along as opposed to today's railfan.  We had our people.  Dozens of them.  The station agent, the local train crew, the interlocking operator, the trainmaster, the yardmaster, the crews on the many passenger trains, the crossing guard or watchman, the track foreman, so many more.  We got to know them, they got to know us, they got us to know railroading like today's railfan can't.  So while I am not overly impressed with the picture taking only contingent, I also understand, and point out to others, without the people we had, the only way they can be a railfan is by taking pictures!  I just hope enough of them learn that picture taking isn't the only thing that can make them a railfan.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 6:39 PM

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

When I was at Deshler last summer, the video camera went on a tripod.  I usually caught a still or two of the trains as well, but now I've got both to refresh my memory.  And had I not been taking pictures, I wouldn't have gotten the video of those five switchers DIT behind the head end power.   Actually, I didn't get a still of that - we'd just gotten drenched and the Rebel was misbehaving.

The rest I can agree with.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 6:54 PM

But Tree, you went to a special even designed for photography.  What Frailey, me, and others are talking about is going to the railroad to ride or to just watch without camera in hand.  I know I've seen a lot more railroading, broader scenes, more action, with my eyes instead of peeking through view finders, focusing and f-stopping, the winding and winding again.  No.  Fan trips, railfan weekends, night photo ops, etc. are all for the fun of photography.  So do it and don't feel bad.  And while even these events might be enjoyed differently without the camera, certainly to learn the day to day duties, operatons, and people, of everyday railroading, leaving the camera home or in the bag even just once, might really be an eye opener!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Duluth, MN
  • 343 posts
Posted by htgguy on Saturday, February 6, 2010 8:20 PM

Well, sadly, I don't have the January issue. However, from reading your roundup, an important thought occurs to me.

In my mind, one of the most important things I can do to be a "better" railfan is to share-share information, share photos, share knowledge, share experiences. Now I know that I am much more knowledgable of operations on my local lines (BNSF Staples and Brainerd Sub), as well as other areas that I have had the opportunity to visit such as Marias Pass, the Powder River Basin, Boone, CP River Sub, former DMIR trackage, and on and on, than I would have been without the generosity of those who are more familiar with the areas than I. That has made my railfanning more enjoyable, more efficient, and safer, since I know where I can safely get photos or views that I am looking for rather than just charging in without knowledge.

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

http://look4trains.com/2009/06/verndale-rail-2009.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/railtalk/3646323700/

So I would add the sharing of resources and information, and the resulting relationships developed along the tracks as something that makes you a better railfan. Just my opinion.

And if anyone is interested in an event like this, we will likely be doing it again, very possibly June 19, 2010.

Jim

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 9:12 PM

henry6
But Tree, you went to a special even designed for photography.

Conway Scenic, yes.  Owosso, yes.  Deshler, on the other hand (or Utica) is simply a place to watch trains. 

I don't grab the camera every time I see a train, but if I'm actively watching, the camera is near.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 9:22 PM

And Jim, lets not forget the thousands of books available in libraries and owned by other railfans, plus the historical societies and model clubs devoted to trains.  And just plain watching trains.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
  • 4,213 posts
Posted by blhanel on Saturday, February 6, 2010 10:06 PM

htgguy

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

You know Mike?  I met him at the Izaak Walton Inn back last August- he rode out there on Amtrak.  I certainly have to agree with you there, I've made some great friends!

Moderator
  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: London ON
  • 10,392 posts
Posted by blownout cylinder on Sunday, February 7, 2010 5:45 AM

tree68

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

I often wondered why there is this idea that to really enjoy trains the camera should stay at home. I've seen other people have camera in hand and really notice all kinds of stuff going on and not have to push the button. Camera was still there but they chose not to use it at that time.

This made me think, too, that one can be there without the camera and yet not really be there as well. Whether I have a camera or not has little bearing on whether I'm 'Really There". I can be someplace that is really cool and yet be thinking --"did I turn off the TV"---am I Really There? In the moment? Not particularly----Whistling I just love it when one thinks a piece of technology and its usage is deemed not in the moment when it is in fact that person, themselves, that is having the issue. Whether the camera is there or not is totally besides the point.

A case of thinking other than either/orWhistling

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Duluth, MN
  • 343 posts
Posted by htgguy on Sunday, February 7, 2010 7:28 AM

blhanel

htgguy

Plus, I have made some terrific friends this way. Usually it starts out as a virtual friendship, but in many cases it has developed into meeting people trackside to enjoy not only the railroad but companionship with those who share a common interest. Here is an example of that kind of event:

http://www.morris.umn.edu/~vandenbm/journaljun_09.html

You know Mike?  I met him at the Izaak Walton Inn back last August- he rode out there on Amtrak.  I certainly have to agree with you there, I've made some great friends!

I know Mike-he is a great guy to railfan with.

http://look4trains.com/2010/01/brrr.html

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2026630&id=1306926001&l=aa0fc77b10#!/photo.php?pid=30436721&id=1306926001&fbid=1177551961426

For me, another example of the best part of railfanning-spending time with people who share your interest out along the tracks, and sharing what you have seen and photographed with them when they are not there.

Jim

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Sunday, February 7, 2010 9:04 AM

blownout cylinder
I often wondered why there is this idea that to really enjoy trains the camera should stay at home.

 

I agree.  Sounds like one of those statements that sounds catchy, to be put in a list, like Letterman.  Standing around with the camera up to your eye the whole time is one thing; having one around your neck, in a pocket or in a bag to be used p.r.n., is quite a different matter.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Sunday, February 7, 2010 9:08 AM

I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans. There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, February 7, 2010 4:21 PM

tree68

I have to disagree with the whole "don't bring your camera" thing.

By the time the train gets to me, I've usually put the camera down.  Not only do I get to enjoy the sights and sounds first hand, but I've got a picture to "take me back" to that moment.

 

(Just guessing) Since his general "thrust" this month seems aimed at fostering better relations with his "inside the industry" chums, let's look at his comment from that aspect.

Where I work, if some stranger showed up at my jobsite, set up some fairly sophisticated camera gear, and started snapping away, I'd be put on the defensive. I'd be forced to assume that some lawyer was fishing for "slip and fall" support for a client, or some other liability...or that perhaps my own employer had hired a snooping service. Either way the presence constitutes a potential nuisance that interferes with the quiet, productivity conducive environment that I'd prefer to maintain whenever possible. So, I can understand Fred's suggestion on that basis.

Beyond that and in particular reference to the comments I made earlier, same guy goes out and sets up the same sophisticated equipment at the end of some bridge, waits 40 minutes for a freight toshow up...then spends 3 minutes snapping pictures,....and then waits 2 more hours for the next freight, snapping six more, and then goes home.....he's spent half a day, and for what? a dozen pictures that are uncannily similar to the dozen he shot at the same location the weekend before,...and the  weekend before that... and the weekend before that...etc?  Sure, I guess you can argue that each opportunity presented unique lighting challenges for him to apply his skill and knowledgebase to overcome, but then the guy is more a camera buff ...than railfan. Not that there is anything wrong with that,  per se, but I just think Fred is warning us not to fall into that rut.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 7, 2010 5:27 PM

henry6
Most important to being a railfan is the difference between when we of the older generation came along as opposed to today's railfan.  We had our people.  Dozens of them.  The station agent, the local train crew, the interlocking operator, the trainmaster, the yardmaster, the crews on the many passenger trains, the crossing guard or watchman, the track foreman, so many more.  We got to know them, they got to know us, they got us to know railroading like today's railfan can't.

Quite true, Henry! I could not count the opportunities I had to talk with trainmen and station agents; once I even sold tickets when the operator was busy. And, for the nine years that I had the AT&N just outside my backyard, I not only talked with the crews, I worked with them. Now, I have had some opportunites to talk with Amtrak trainmen, but these do not come often. In our four trips between Vancouver and Toronto, I recall two opportunities to talk with the conductor. The first came while the conductors still rode the cars; the second one came when we were making the backup move after leaving Toronto on a westbound trip.

Johnny

Johnny

Moderator
  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: London ON
  • 10,392 posts
Posted by blownout cylinder on Sunday, February 7, 2010 6:31 PM

henry6
I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans.

Yeah wellWhistling I did get a few people jump on me over the fact that I had a camera--"Why didn't you leave it at home?" And they meant it, literally.

henry6
There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

OK. When you are "with the moment" are you standing there talking to your railfan brother about what you and your wife are having tomorrow at so and so's place? I'd say no. Yet some other people would say yes. Primary reason? The camera is not involved. That is a strange kind of In The Moment. As long as the camera is not there you are in the moment. You can do everything else--be talking to one another while the train you were there for goes by but you were In The Moment while doing so.

I can be just as In The Moment as the next guy. Just because I have a camera and I use the dang thing--hey, I catch my memories on film as well as in my heart/brain--does not mean that, therefore I am NOT in the moment.

BTW---just to flummox the thing. I know someone who has short term memory issues. This fellow loves his trains. The way he does this is by photography. Last winter his family went to Hawaii. He has some neat shots of several trains you would not find here. The dangest thing about all this is that he was consistantly poked at because he used a camera and was therefore not really paying attention to what he was "Really Seeing".

We need to understand where each of us comes from and how each of us are truly "in the moment" in our own way---there really is no ONE way---Smile,Wink, & Grin

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, February 7, 2010 8:45 PM

Convicted One
Where I work, if some stranger showed up at my jobsite, set up some fairly sophisticated camera gear, and started snapping away, I'd be put on the defensive.

As I've mentioned before - one place I "work," it's very common to have someone show up taking pictures and videos, and not just from the news media.  In fact, odds are I'm going to ask them for a copy, especially if it's a major event.

That would be firefighting.

We take pride in what we've accomplished, and if something goes wrong, we're all over those pictures and videos to figure out what happened and how we can prevent it.

In other words, we embrace it.

We know it's a two-edged sword.  The video that ends up on YouTube might be a glowing tribute to our trade, or might show us doing something we wish wouldn't see the light of day.

To complicate things for the photographer, we might declare a previously "public" area as out-of-bounds for safety reasons.

Beyond that and in particular reference to the comments I made earlier, same guy goes out and sets up the same sophisticated equipment at the end of some bridge, waits 40 minutes for a freight toshow up...then spends 3 minutes snapping pictures,....and then waits 2 more hours for the next freight, snapping six more, and then goes home.....he's spent half a day, and for what? a dozen pictures that are uncannily similar to the dozen he shot at the same location the weekend before,...and the  weekend before that... and the weekend before that...etc? 

On the other hand, he might have as a goal getting pictures of as many different locomotives as possible.  What seems like a waste of time to you has been very productive for him.

Some people keep track car or locomotive information.  Instead of taking pictures, they've got a notebook in their hand and they're busily taking notes on the passing train.  It's what they do and how they enjoy the hobby. 

In both cases, just standing trackside, watching trains go by would be a tremendous waste of time.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, February 7, 2010 9:07 PM
henry6

I am sure the concept "leave  your camera at home" is metaphoric, encouraging a mind set if not really leaving the camera home.  In other words, don't just think "pictures" when you go railfaning but also think seeing, learning, enjoying, and, yes, the cameraderie of fellow fans. There is a lot more to railfaning than how many frames per minute you can take or how many pixels per print.  Enjoy the whole scene through your eye and mind at the moment and savor forever.

Not being a mind reader (especially when I have only the words to go by), I'm not sure Fred Frailey was thinking this way. But if he wasn't he should have been! I'm sure that if I had any confidence in my own abilities as a photographer, I'd have a camera with me at work, on trips, and wherever I was likely to encounter a train. I do carry a pad and pen (unless I've forgotten them!) with which to note interesting aspects of the equipment I see, and I suppose that's my "camera". For me, the experience itself is the thing I take away--be it the people I'm with, what I've seen, or how I feel when I've seen it (crass, but I won't fondly remember being stuck at a grade crossing with a full bladder, regardless of whether it was a steam-powered circus train going by!). Memories without photographs can still be great, but a photograph without the memory, though evocative, is still just a picture.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 8, 2010 8:37 AM

I find the tone of the whole column to be rather preachy.  Mr. Frailey stereotypes railfans and railroaders by suggesting that the latter all regard the former as lazy, uninformed, know-it-alls.  Frankly, I don’t believe his antidote about his friend who works for a Class-I railroad in a mid-level management position having been driven off forums because there are too many stupid people there.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 106 posts
Posted by OldArmy94 on Monday, February 8, 2010 2:27 PM

How about we adopt Outback Steakhouse's philosophy of "no rules"?  If you enjoy it, then do it.  I don't understand why some people feel the compulsion to dictate to everyone else how their HOBBY should be done.  It's all about what makes you happy, folks.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Monday, February 8, 2010 3:02 PM

I don't think the discussion is aimed at dictating how, but suggesting other ways.  Frailey's point I think was to suggest ways in which professional railroaders might be encouraged to take some railfans more seriously, i.e., in one case he suggested go out to look at railroads and trains without a camera.  He wasn't dictating, he was suggesting.  There are those who do define the railroad hobby being only an exercise in taking pictures without getting to know the railroad, the operations, the history, the business, or the people involved.  Some apparently are wrapped so tight that this point in particular has caused quite a stir!  Of course there are as many definitions of what a railfan is as there are individual railfans.  And what they are interested in, why, and how they pursue the hobby is just as vague and varied.  The only rules: do it safely, do it unobtrusively.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Monday, February 8, 2010 6:06 PM

Bucyrus

.  Frankly, I don’t believe his antidote about his friend who works for a Class-I railroad in a mid-level management position having been driven off forums because there are too many stupid people there.

 

the thought that his anecdote might have been a construct fashioned to shape the herd here, ...did cross my mind.    ala "OHHH, so if we BEHAVE ourselves,.. then maybe we'll get a chance to talk to more COOL guys"...etc

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Monday, February 8, 2010 7:09 PM

Convicted One

Bucyrus

.  Frankly, I don’t believe his antidote about his friend who works for a Class-I railroad in a mid-level management position having been driven off forums because there are too many stupid people there.

 

the thought that his anecdote might have been a construct fashioned to shape the herd here, ...did cross my mind.    ala "OHHH, so if we BEHAVE ourselves,.. then maybe we'll get a chance to talk to more COOL guys"...etc

 

At first I thought Bucyrus' malapropism was one of the funnier ones I've heard of late.  On second glance, perhaps he really meant a substance to undo the poisonous railfans?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 8:47 PM

well, as a matter of pure candor, I have gotten into a number of good conversations with rails out in the field, track guys, signal guys, engineers waiting on meets, and I think that it's mostly a matter of how you present yourself.  If you're decent, personable, act a little knowledgable about the line they are on, and ACT LIKE YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR OWN SAFETY most of them are happy to share a few words.

If you act foolishly, or act arrogant like you have a right to be there, heh, you'll probably be seeing a white blazer before too long, and trust me...the guy inside'll want to talk to you!!

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 10:04 PM

Convicted One
If you act foolishly, or act arrogant like you have a right to be there, heh, you'll probably be seeing a white blazer before too long, and trust me...the guy inside'll want to talk to you!!

And, unfortunately, you'll color all the rest of us at the same time.

[rant] 

I dug that issue out again (having accidentally sent it to the "stacks" already). 

The highlighted bullet point he makes in his second paragraph kind of chafes.

"Do you wonder why railroaders don't have more respect for us?  We haven't earned it."

Bull hockey. 

Railfans "log" thousands of hours of trainwatching every year that the railroaders apparently aren't even aware of.  From sitting patiently at a crossing (I know, you won't wave), to eating at establishments with a favorable view of the tracks, to frequenting hotels that cater to railfans, to spending time at established watching spots (like Rochelle, Jessup, Folkston, etc), to checking out distant webcams, we quietly watch the objects we admire, and the people who operate them. 

We live by Fred's seven ways to become a better railfan, but we don't get credit for that.  Instead we get cast in the mold of the one clown who decides to set up his tripod in the middle of the tracks, hoping for that great oncoming-train shot.

This forum generally lives by his suggestions as well.  Sure, speculation runs rampant when something like the derailment on Sand Patch happens, but eventually the truth comes out and most of us learn something.  "Stupid" questions get answered, even if we've answered them before.

Yes there are railfans who don't have a clue, or can't seem to get it.  The same is true with just about everything.  I cringe every time a reporter misstates something about a fire. 

So, give the average railfan some credit.  You haven't noticed him (or her) because you've never had the opportunity to do so.  They've just been quietly watching.

[/rant]

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 10:05 PM

Some years ago Ben Bachman wrote a pretty interesting and funny piece about the various types of railfans, and what/ how they like to do that: 

On watching trains
Trains, May 1979 page 28
action on and under the bridge at East Deerfield
( B&M, "BACHMAN, BEN", RAILFANNING, TRN )

I believe that's the one where he compared us to an acquaintance who was 'obsessed' with and an expert on a particular seabird - Leach's Storm Petrel, if I recall correctly - which spends most of its life far out at sea, beyond any reasonable hope of observation.  Next to that, we look pretty normal - but he's the one whose hobby is considered socially acceptable, while we're usually viewed as the oddballs.  Maybe something out of kilter here ?

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 11:30 PM

 Let me wade in with a few thoughts.

First of all Fred should have included an 8th way.  Namely, get involved with a museum operation.  They are usually crying for more volunteers, and getting your hands dirty working on the real thing is a great way to gain a deeper understanding of what happens when you are watching trackside.  Sometimes you might be working alongside a retired railroader, and it's incredible the wealth of information, instruction, and stories that can be available.  Even the other amateurs will bring you a new level of sophistication.  

By getting your hands dirty I mean more than only wanting to play engineer. That's often best done with a model railway where nobody gets hurt.  Learn how track is built and maintained, or how a heavyweight coach is constructed.  You still won't know much compared with the professionals, but it should provide a base to make any conversation or questions more intelligent (and less annoying).


4. Leave your camera at home, -our interests in the hobby should be deeper than our slide collection

There has been a lot of discussion on this one, and I would certainly disagree with any literal interpretation.  As I look through my slides taken over the last 40 years, some of them trigger long buried memories of events or people I have seen or met.  Spending an afternoon watching trains go by, or taking a picture of every train at the same place - is there really much difference?  Yes, some folks essentially take the same picture over and over, only the locomotive number changes, but others hunt up different angles, seek out new locations, and otherwise try to be creative.

On the other hand, there are times when experiencing the moment is best done without the distraction of a camera.  Listening to CP's Hudson, 2816, barking upgrade in Kicking Horse Pass, and then the whistle echoing off the mountains as she approached the grade crossing half a mile away was awesome.  Standing on the front vestibule of a commuter coach next to a GP9 listening and feeling the 567 engine throbbing through the Mount Royal tunnel in Montreal is another memory.  In a different style, I had the pleasure of watching an Algoma Central crew switching mostly 40 foot boxcars using hand signals in a throwback to an earlier era.  They did have radios, and occasionally used it, but most of the time found hand signals more effective.  Often there is the opportunity to capture a few images at the same time.

Again, looking at some of the older pictures I now notice things that my early naive self had overlooked at the time.  Perhaps surprisingly, having my eyes opened about past events also makes me more aware of what is happening now when I am out watching and/or photographing trains.

John

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:01 AM

Tree, the point is that those railfans who make asses of themselves make asses of the rest of us.  So anything that can be said or done to prevent such behavior has got to help the rest of us normal railfans.

And John, I like your "8th way" up to a point.  What has to be understood by all is that each of us, as a railfan, has a different reason for becoming a fan, a different georgraphy, different railroad, different type of train or locomotive, in otherwords, there are as more reasons and interests than there are railfans.  And often we weave in and out of different angles and interests.  I endorse and applaud virtually every historic endeavor be it museum, static dispalys, or operations, preservation, or whatever. But like taking pictures, just sitting watching, modeling, collecting memorabelia, collecting libraries, not everyone is cut out to be part of museum or historic preservation. I have been on the picture taking binge; collected all kinds of stuff (right now, into railroad fiction novels and stories); I have operated musuems and ran fan trips, I have always been enamored with operations, having listened to dispatchers at work when I was kid and seeing how it all worked out over the timetable day (that's probably why today I prefer finding my way to a commuter operation and ride all day).  But don't put hisorica preservation or a musuem aside because all of a sudden one gets vaccinated with the needle of a certain locomotive or piece of equipment or station or right of way,and, voila! one's immersed and hooked.  I guess what I am trying to say here is that there are no absolutes in railfanning: no one interest beyond rails and wheels can define us nor should or should be expected to.  But one other thing has to be included universally, and that is respect of our hosts (the railroads and railroaders) and respect for each other's choice of pursuit.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:24 AM

henry6
Tree, the point is that those railfans who make asses of themselves make asses of the rest of us.  So anything that can be said or done to prevent such behavior has got to help the rest of us normal railfans.

Exactly.  My point is that railfans shouldn't all be painted with the same brush.  IMHO, the "good" railfans outnumber the bad apples by a large margin.  Yet to hear some people talk, all railfans are a detriment to commerce.

Take a look at the voting on the Trackside "competitions."  The votes far outnumber the comments.  Since it's not real easy to vote more than once, that means that some number of fans quietly voiced their opinions.  They're just sitting back and enjoying the trains.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:50 AM

henry6
I don't think the discussion is aimed at dictating how, but suggesting other ways.

 

I don’t perceive that Mr. Frailey is just offering suggestions for alternate railfan activity.  In his column, he offered seven ways to be a better railfan, so he clearly signaled that he feels his suggestions are superior to what they would replace.   And he definitely implies that all railfans are guilty of some of his examples of unapproved behavior.  So he purports to make us into better railfans in order to make railroad managers and operating men like us better.  Mr. Frailey, give me a break. 

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:21 AM
The only thing I have to add here is that I'd much rather hire a knowledgeable railfan to come to work in my office than a run of the mill college grad. Anybody can have a good business skill set, but it's the context that's hard to come by. A knowledgeable railfan has a leg up on everybody else - and he will tend to be more motivated and have his head in the game more often.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy