That's right, electric assisted bikes are becoming ever more common. I think I can chuff up that grade under my own power, however the ebikes are a great option for those who might need a bit of a boost.
I'm not sure that I get the concept of e-bikes. I thought that bikes were for exercise. In my younger days, I used to regularly ride centuries and metric centuries.
I think e-bikes, as originally envisioned, were targeted at someone who wanted to commute using a bike instead of a car. Showing up to work sweaty after a commute of any distance, using just your own legs, requires showering & changing facilities at your destination (I know - I have ridden my bike to and from work many times, some 23 miles).
Over time, though, I'm sure there is a market for people who would like to go out and spend some time on a bike who might not otherwise be in the physical condition to do so. Electric bikes fill the bill nicely for such people.
E bikes are a nice compromise for people who want exercise yet need a little bit of assistence on the hilly stretches. Around here alot of people, young and old, have come to prefer them as the terrain is rather hilly. Most people envision Ontario as rather flat.. until they've tried to cycle here. I would imagine that would go triple for the Saluda grade area.. nothing but mountains there.
UlrichE bikes are a nice compromise for people who want exercise yet need a little bit of assistence on the hilly stretches. Around here alot of people, young and old, have come to prefer them as the terrain is rather hilly. Most people envision Ontario as rather flat.. until they've tried to cycle here. I would imagine that would go triple for the Saluda grade area.. nothing but mountains there.
For all those who don't think the number representing the percent of grade mean anything - go buy yourself a heart rate monitor for your exercise walk/run/biking activities. Note your heart rate when navigating on level ground! Note your heart rate when navigating desecnding ground! Note your heart rate when navigating ascending ground! Note your heartrate the longer your ascending grade is.
The human body is a machine, the harder it works, the hgher the heart rate is needed to supply the necessary level of energy for the body to accomplish its task.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Ulrich E bikes are a nice compromise for people who want exercise yet need a little bit of assistence on the hilly stretches. Around here alot of people, young and old, have come to prefer them as the terrain is rather hilly. Most people envision Ontario as rather flat.. until they've tried to cycle here. I would imagine that would go triple for the Saluda grade area.. nothing but mountains there. For all those who don't think the number representing the percent of grade mean anything - go buy yourself a heart rate monitor for your exercise walk/run/biking activities. Note your heart rate when navigating on level ground! Note your heart rate when navigating desecnding ground! Note your heart rate when navigating ascending ground! Note your heartrate the longer your ascending grade is. The human body is a machine, the harder it works, the hgher the heart rate is needed to supply the necessary level of energy for the body to accomplish its task.
Ulrich E bikes are a nice compromise for people who want exercise yet need a little bit of assistence on the hilly stretches. Around here alot of people, young and old, have come to prefer them as the terrain is rather hilly. Most people envision Ontario as rather flat.. until they've tried to cycle here. I would imagine that would go triple for the Saluda grade area.. nothing but mountains there.
Very true.. and as one gets older, note how your knees feel when you exert excessive pressure on hills. The E bike is also a great option for people with knee and back problems..i.e. 50% plus of people over 50.
Properly-designed e-bikes... whether rail or trail... would also be of strong benefit in dynamic. One lever for proportional regenerative braking; a "pull-out' or magnetic switch as on a treadmill that smoothly stops at maximum rate; a computer that can sense unsafe operation or project collisions, and ATC-apply the brake as needed.
The idea from the other thread, of an electric assist that 'makes up' everything beyond comfortable pedaling exercise for a particular 'crew', would likely be a better factor in increasing the effective 'take rate' of a rail-bike operation over this trackage.
The required bridging (or fills, if you have government-size pockets) can be of lighter construction... we have examples of this on the ex-NC&StL main as rebuilt into the "Green Line".
Honestly NS could lease it out to the Rails to Trails guys so NS could retain ownership of the line just under a lease. They would be making more money off of it. RTR would pay to repair the washouts and put ashphalt in and if NS sees the need for the line, they just terminate the lease and pour ballast ontop. Its been done before. Personally I dont think Rails to Trails would get it. Theyve asked for the past 20 years and from what I hear NS declines everytime. Who knows, only the future will tell.
What is the situation of the land owner ship underneath the tracks and ROW? There is a conduit under at least part of the line in question. Permanent easements, rail only easemens, NS ( nee SOU RR ) owned, combined easemets, different owners on different sections, leased from different owners, etc ?
C40_9w Personally I dont think Rails to Trails would get it. Theyve asked for the past 20 years and from what I hear NS declines everytime. Who knows, only the future will tell.
Personally I dont think Rails to Trails would get it. Theyve asked for the past 20 years and from what I hear NS declines everytime. Who knows, only the future will tell.
That's what's different this time. Several times in the past, NS said NO right from the start. They're not saying that this time. They're not commenting and stating they won't "provide any information on the railway's strategic assets out of respect for the inquiring party." That's business-speak for negotiating a price. The non-profits have already said as much.A new article from The Tryon Daily Bulletin reports an estimated cost of $30 million to purchase and $30 million to build the trail.
blue streak 1 What is the situation of the land owner ship underneath the tracks and ROW? There is a conduit under at least part of the line in question. Permanent easements, rail only easemens, NS ( nee SOU RR ) owned, combined easemets, different owners on different sections, leased from different owners, etc ?
I was reading an article about the rails to trails propositio for saluda and many of the residents that live track side were very adament about not wanting it to become a bike path. The reason is most of the people the track runs in their backyards and letting it sit will not intervene with their privac. If they make it a trail they say its gonna bring too much attention and would probably cause a lot of issues regarding land and people. I dont remember the article but if I find it I will post it. Honestly I agree with them in the sense of privacy. People could easily just walk into their land or litter around the area basically ruining the land around it. Honestly they should just make it sit.
This is how MC makes his living.
And the agreements involved (leases, easements, etc, and so on) often go back well over 100 years.
If NS owns the line "fee simple" (ie, the land was bought and paid for by the railroad in the first place), no big deal. If the line is cobbled together of said easements, etc, and the property owners lawyer up, it could get interesting.
I'm sure the real estate folks at NS have been doing their due diligence. Or not...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
It is my experience that each State is different, due to legislation and past legal judgements.
Colleagues, I bike (not e-bike) 2000+ miles per year. Not the most and not the least but a decent number. 3% or more for a sustained length of several miles will really get your heart pumping as BaltACD mentioned. I would suspect for Saluda on a standard bike most people will have to get down in the lower gears of their sprocket and grind uphill, not unlike all those Southern long-hood-forward locomotives had to do. Quads would likely feel the burn a bit even for those who clip in.
kgbw49 Colleagues, I bike (not e-bike) 2000+ miles per year. Not the most and not the least but a decent number. 3% or more for a sustained length of several miles will really get your heart pumping as BaltACD mentioned. I would suspect for Saluda on a standard bike most people will have to get down in the lower gears of their sprocket and grind uphill, not unlike all those Southern long-hood-forward locomotives had to do. Quads would likely feel the burn a bit even for those who clip in.
Yes, getting into lower gears is also a good way to save one's knees from serious damage.
kgbw49I would suspect for Saluda on a standard bike most people will have to get down in the lower gears of their sprocket and grind uphill,
Oftimes, it's easier to just get off and walk...
I wonder how many of the NIMBYs ride rail trails when they go on vacation somewhere else? I've never know any trails that had a littering or vandalism problem.
I honestly wish I was around to see trains run up saluda, it seemed like such an interesting piece of engineering which is was and still is. I went there a few months ago and the state of the track is just sad. I wish one day something would happen but thats never gonna happen with whats going on now. Now im just curious to see the outcome of it today.
NS is going to sale Saluda grade it is going to be a rail trail.
Russell
csxns NS is going to sale Saluda grade it is going to be a rail trail.
Well, hopefully it happens soon.. I look forward to riding it.
Just don't eat the BBQ.
Coalition, Norfolk Southern reach agreement on future Saluda Grade Trail purchase, terms
dubch87Coalition, Norfolk Southern reach agreement on future Saluda Grade Trail purchase, terms
Wonder if they will engineer in 'safety escape' trails for bikers that lose their brakes coming down grade?
So, does this event foreshadow the imminent demise of this, the thread that wouldn't die?
Also, Balt, no need for a runaway trail if they set their retainer and use their dynamics.
PeteM3So, does this event foreshadow the imminent demise of this, the thread that wouldn't die? Also, Balt, no need for a runaway trail if they set their retainer and use their dynamics.
Retainers and Dynamics can fail!
PeteM3Also, Balt, no need for a runaway trail if they set their retainer and use their dynamics.
(1) it is illegal to control a train on a substantial downgrade using only dynamics; in fact, it is illegal to use dynamics as a significant part of the braking on such downgrades. See the repeated fun on Sand Patch, where there were several instances of runaways. If the train gets above about 23mph FOR ANY REASON the brakeshoes will not hold the train.
(2) Saluda is considerably steeper than Sand Patch, and it does not take more than a few seconds to accelerate the train beyond the point composition shoes get into terminal outgassing. You will want a safety track after that.
Overmod PeteM3 Also, Balt, no need for a runaway trail if they set their retainer and use their dynamics. In addition to what Balt said: (1) it is illegal to control a train on a substantial downgrade using only dynamics; in fact, it is illegal to use dynamics as a significant part of the braking on such downgrades. See the repeated fun on Sand Patch, where there were several instances of runaways. If the train gets above about 23mph FOR ANY REASON the brakeshoes will not hold the train. (2) Saluda is considerably steeper than Sand Patch, and it does not take more than a few seconds to accelerate the train beyond the point composition shoes get into terminal outgassing. You will want a safety track after that.
PeteM3 Also, Balt, no need for a runaway trail if they set their retainer and use their dynamics.
In addition to what Balt said:
I'm no expert, but terminal outgassing sounds like something to avoided..
UlrichI'm no expert, but terminal outgassing sounds like something to avoided..
The human condition has much outgassing, but it is rarely terminal.
Backshop Overmod (1) ... Uh, they were making a joke about Saluda after it becomes a bike trail...
Overmod (1) ...
(1) ...
Uh, they were making a joke about Saluda after it becomes a bike trail...
And if I had read down just one post further I'd have figured it out, too.
Guess I'll leave it up for comic relief of a different kind.
Moral: Composite shoes are not the only things that suffer a fail through excessive outgassing...
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