Johnny, so I don't leave this site hanging, I'll post a new question: According to the book Leaders Count (2005), what RR executive was described as "[A] leader who brings to the railroad a greater understanding of the need for change than more traditional up-through-the-ranks executives might be expected to have."
So, who is this executive and what RR company are we talking about? - al
al-in-chgo Is it Big Stone Gap? - a.s.
Is it Big Stone Gap? - a.s.
Al, I don't know how I missed this last night, for I was up late with the computer.
Johnny
Deggesty DeggestyCarl, if you are referring to the start and stop of the outing for a drink, Appalachia is not However, Appalachia does enter into the overall picture. Johnny
DeggestyCarl, if you are referring to the start and stop of the outing for a drink, Appalachia is not
However, Appalachia does enter into the overall picture.
CShaveRR Without digging out the article, would your spot happen to be Appalachia?
Without digging out the article, would your spot happen to be Appalachia?
Al, St.Paul does not enter into it at all, if I remember my SW Virginia railroads properly.
CShaveRR Dante (rhymes with "rant") is in the heart of Clinchfield country. Without digging out the article, would your spot happen to be Appalachia? I spent a very pleasurable day down there once--even met the author of the article--but it was complicated back then when there were several more railroads than there are now.
Dante (rhymes with "rant") is in the heart of Clinchfield country.
I spent a very pleasurable day down there once--even met the author of the article--but it was complicated back then when there were several more railroads than there are now.
I don't think Clinchfield ran thru Appalachia, VA (though I could be wrong).
Just to keep the pot simmering, I'll guess St. Paul, VA. - a.s.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
al-in-chgoDante?
No, Al, it is not Dante. I'm not at home, so I cannot check on what any railroad did in Dante, but I don't think that there was any interchange there.
Deggesty Here's a hint: The interchange is in southwest Virginia, but it is not Norton. Johnny
Here's a hint: The interchange is in southwest Virginia, but it is not Norton.
Dante?
narig01 I'm not going to answer the question as I forgot the name of the town, But you do know there was an article about this in recent past? Rgds IGN
I'm not going to answer the question as I forgot the name of the town, But you do know there was an article about this in recent past?
Rgds IGN
KCSfan W&A is correct. Glad to see you're back on line Johnny.
W&A is correct. Glad to see you're back on line Johnny.
Name: the town, the railroads, the junction point, the origin and the destination of the Pullman.Tiebreaker: the name of the road that absorbed the originating road.
Mark
KCSfanSorry but the Georgia Railroad was neither state owned nor was it the route of numerous named passenger trains, However you're warm with that answer so keep trying.
Western & Atlantic--Atlanta to Chattanooga--which was leased by the NC&StL (or was it still the N&C at the time of the lease?), which was taken in by the L&N about 1957, and wound up in CSX.
oltmannd Well, the "no passenger trains" leaves out the NCRR. The CNO&TP is owned by Cincinnati, not a state, so that leave that one out. How about the Georgia Road? Have no clue if they're state owned, though.
Well, the "no passenger trains" leaves out the NCRR. The CNO&TP is owned by Cincinnati, not a state, so that leave that one out. How about the Georgia Road? Have no clue if they're state owned, though.
Sorry but the Georgia Railroad was neither state owned nor was it the route of numerous named passenger trains, However you're warm with that answer so keep trying.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Since no one else has asked a question I'll post one in order to keep this thread active. Completed in 1850, what state built and owned railroad is today leased by that state to a Class I road and is an integral part of one of its main lines? While passenger trains no longer run over this 134 mile road, it once was a part of the routes of a number of well known name trains, Name the railroad, the state that built and owns it and its end point terminals.
Yes, please, one of you winners please post a question. Thank you.
It's been 10 days since the last message was posted on this thread. I can't figure out who is credited with answering the last question but one of you responders needs pose a new question so the thread doesn't die,
Did any of you know a Marsden? Was a runner for the CV and Amtrak in the mid 70's... I worked with his brother who told me about him running I believe from White River Jct. north.
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A special train on the Montrealer route was rode by Winston Churchill during World War II with my grandfather at the throttle.
Mike
henry6 I would say yes on straight CV-CN routing. But via Rouses Pt, D&H-NJ RR it would have been D&H/NJ crew north. We are talking the 20's here, you are up at the end of service in the early 60's. It appears that things often changed over the years.
I would say yes on straight CV-CN routing. But via Rouses Pt, D&H-NJ RR it would have been D&H/NJ crew north. We are talking the 20's here, you are up at the end of service in the early 60's. It appears that things often changed over the years.
Johny
Regardless of tracks I believe it was the CV engineer who drove the train in Canada. To quote Dad some more:
"Another idiosyncracy of Nos. 20 and 21 was that, by special agreements with the Brotherhooods, these two trains, and these two only, were exclusively CV jobs all the way White River Jct. to Montreal. This came about because of a contract Grand Trunk Railway had signed with Rutland RR in 1919, under which GTR agreed never to operate a through passenger service Montreal-New York City except via Rutland RR. In order to operate the Montrealer and Washingtonian without violating that contract, it was necessary that the CN avoid all participation in the operation of the train; so it was set up as a CV operation, running into Montreal under CV trackage rights, rather than as a CN operation St. Johns-Montreal."
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/1606/cvcvr.jpg Timetable cover
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/1606/cvmaintt.jpg Timetable
Napierville Jct. was the road I was looking for. CN took CV from above St. Albans, VT to Montreal, NJ was a wholly owned subsidiary of the D&H which operated solely in Canada.
henry6 Actually I lied. The Montrealer operated over the D&H only from Rouses Point to the Canadian border. Another railroad took over there. What was it?
Actually I lied. The Montrealer operated over the D&H only from Rouses Point to the Canadian border. Another railroad took over there. What was it?
Henry, that's right, the Montrealer. You're up.
My Dad (1914-1978) wrote this. He refers to my grandfather (1881-1971) and great-uncle (1880-1966)
"As you may gather, the CV was never a local road. It was conceived, and has always operated, as a trunk line, part of the through route between Boston and New York, on the one hand, and Chicago and the Canadian West. Very early in the game, it joined hands with the Grand Trunk RR of Canada, which went to Chicago. very little local freight has ever been handled, compared to the through manifest runs.
"Passenger service was always geared to the through service New York or Boston to Montreal and the West. Boardings in Vermont were almost entirely to destinations in Southern New England, New York, and on to Washington; or to Montreal and Detroit and Chicago. Through sleepers were operated from New London to Chicago via Montreal; St. Albans had layover Pullmans for Boston and for New York.
"In 1924, Canadian National Railways had just been formed, being a merger of Grand Trunk Ry with the several Canadian transcontinental lines that got over-extended in the early 1900's. To get a president, CN looked to Pennsylvania RR. Henry Thornton, former General Mgr, Lines west, of PRR, was hired. He is the man who conceived and built Jamaica Station of the LIRR, with its 3-way cross-platform transfers of commuters. He was made Sir Henry Thornton by King George V, and he went to work to make CN a solid competitor of CPR.
"One thing that bothered him was that, because of the longer mileage of the CV-B&M-NH route to New York, the CN had to offer passengers a 2-hour longer run to New York than the CPR through the latter's D&H connection.
"Both D&H and New Haven operated the Montreal trains into Grand Central, and passengers going beyond had to transfer either to PRR at Penn Station or to B&O at Jersey City.
"The Hell Gate Bridge had been opened only a year or so earlier, and was being used by New Haven-PRR for through Boston-Washington trains only. Sir Henry decided he could gain an advantage over CPR if he could put on a through train that would connect the capitals of Canada and the U.S., via the new Hell Gate Bridge.
"And so, in 1924, the Montrealer-Washingtonian were put on. They carried through sleepers from Ottowa and Quebec, and ran down the CV to W.R. Jct., B&M to Springfield, New Haven to Penn Station, and PRR through to Washington. These trains were added to the existing service of 3 daily trains via CV to New York at that time. They operated substantially on the same schedule as the final schedule, but the entire train went all the way to Washington, and it also carried Montreal to St. Petersburgh sleepers for the many Canadians who vacationed in Florida.
"Despite the 2-hour longer running time than the D&H, they were an instant success, for the very same reasons that Amtrak has seen in its current appraisals: they served a market unreached by the D&H service, both in northern Vermont vacation areas, in densely populated Southern New England, and in through service to south of New York, all without that barrier of a change of stations in New York.
"During the depression, the Washingtonian-Montrealer ran in 14 cars regularly, loaded, at a time when, one day in 1933, the U.S. Dept. of Commerce made a border-to-border count of all people traveling from East to West and counted only 32 people!
"Naturally, the Montrealer-Washingtonian were given real preferred handling. It was put on a man's permanent service record if he caused a delay of even one minute to Nos. 20 or 21. And a friend recently told me of the only one instance in its 42 years of operation that the train was ever side-tracked for a freight train. The engineer, who happened to be my uncle Dan, was so indignant that he posted the train order on the bulletin board for all to see, as evidence of the offending Dispatcher's incompetence.
"CN started the train with completely new equipment by Pullman, and as improved equipment came along, it was put on, with the final consists comprised of the newest CN and New Haven equipment. PRR equipment was limited to baggage cars, since PRR never had anything good enough for that train, although they would occassionally slip in an extra PRR coach.
"Even the Great Flood of 1927 (of which you will see and hear memorable evidence, I am sure) washed out the Northern Division of CV, CN put 5,000 men to work, and work equipment from as far away as Vancouver, and it took three full months just to get the first train over the road St. Albans to W.R. Jct., and another three months to be able to operate passenger service at all, and still another six months to be able to operate the Montrealer-Washingtonian. CN paid D&H $400 per day for an entire year for trackage rights down from Montreal into Rutland, with CV providing its own train crews and fuel, but prohibited from carrying any but through passengers -- rather than let the Montrealer-Washingtonian drop out of the picture.
"It was during this period that my late father, then a fireman on the Montrealer, told me of the only scare he ever had in his lifetime of engine service: when he was first detoured over the D&H, and hit their sharp curves. He was used to the easy CV curves, and he was sure his engine was going to jump into Lake Champlain over there on the D&H."
Then it would have to have been the Montrealer...Rouses Pt. to Montreal relay from CV-Rutland instead of the CN route to St. Albans.
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