THE HISTORY QUIZ CONTINUES . . . newcomers welcome!

[KCSfan]

In 1928 the Atlantic Coast Line completed construction of the last gap in what was to become their Perry Cutoff running between Dunellon, FL and Thomasville, GA.

1. Between what two towns was this last gap constructed?

2. What event triggerred completion of the Perry Cutoff?

3. Only two regularly schedule through trains ran the entire length of the Perry Cutoff - one was a passenger and the other was a freight. What were the names of these trains? (The freight train name was more likely a nickname rather than an official one)

4. In the 1940'and 50's the ACL ran as many as three unit trains a week over a portion of the Cutoff as specials.  Describe these trains and what was their origin and destination?

Mark

[henry6]

KCSfan

Carl,

It just came back to me. It was the "Sole Leather Line"/

Mark

 

I guess you're on the spot now, Mark!  BTW, I am not that surprised at the number of people who actually know the territory and didn't have to go searching for the answer.  I hope you can do a better job than I did at getting a real stumper up and running.

[CShaveRR]

I'll confirm that "The Sole Leather Line" is the correct appellation. I would see these every once in a while at our local tannery.

[henry6]

Can't remember, though, when the Fall Brook Coal track was pulled up...I vaguely remember seeing something in July 1969 on my first venture into that territory.

[wanswheel]

There was a Fall Brook Coal Co. line ending at Ulysses (the Pine Creek?) which became NYC&HRR in 1899. That may be why C&PA went to Ulysses as well.  Timetable cover:

http://naotc.org/side/03824-1892may22.html

WAG map

http://www.personal.psu.edu/tss109/WAG/images/wag/wagmap50.jpg

Watersheds map

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/river/images/PAbasin.gif

Mike

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

One of my college roommates was a huge WAG & C&PA fan, while they were still running - his family had a cabin up that way.

The Penna. State Lumber Museum is nearby.  Excellent - even my wife liked it.  They have short section of track, and a Shay in a shed that is usually open, plus some excellent displays and diorama, etc.

Slightly OT, but worth mentioning, esp. in a year when many of us may be looking for more affordable and closer to home family vacations or get-aways:  The Pine Creek Gorge Rail-Trail - ex-NYC line - is a few miles east, near Wellsboro.  Aside from hiking, biking, & boating like 47 miles through a very scenic 2nd-growth wilderness with like only 2 or 3 access points, there are also horse-drawn wagon tours and 2-4 day horseback camping experiences available.  People who have done the latter rave about it.

There's also a tourist rail line that runs out of Wellsboro to the Tioga-Hammond Lakes a few miles north - Tioga Central ?   Check it all out.

- Paul North.

[henry6]

Mark is right, Sole Leather Line...several tanneries on line to Addison (trunkated at Elkland in the 60's).   I got a neat slide of a Plymouth switcher at the tannery in Westfield.  Lines were noted for thier GE units: 44 tonners on the C&PA and 70 Tonners (purchased from Ford Motor Co's Rouge River plant, thus the Ford grills) for the WAG.  WAG also bought several SP and WP F units, A and B units.  Remember seeing them being painted and last saw them in the snow in January of 1977.  Agnes of '72 disabled the Elkland Line and Sinclair closing its refinery in Wellsville closed that line.  In the end it was Galeton to Ansonia Jct. on PC's former NYC Jersey Shore line.  Most of the F units went south to Louisianna while at least one of the 70 tonners is at Northeast, PA Lakeshore Museum. I did a reprint of the WAG Employees timetable just after abandonment.

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing Mark got it, but if he didn't, how about the "Leather Shoe Line?"

[KCSfan]

Carl,

It just came back to me. It was the "Sole Leather Line"/

Mark

[CShaveRR]

Very close, Mark, but no cigar! I wish I could give it to you, but it has to be precise.

[KCSfan]

Carl,

 I believe it was "The Shoe Leather Line".

Mark

[CShaveRR]

Okay--I'm going to venture a guess that a lot of people don't think that these two railroads were all that well-known or famous. In fact, to me, the C&PA's big claim to fame was that it connected with the WA&G! So...once the WA&G was created, it obtained a few hundred outside-braced box cars from the Boston & Maine. When the WA&G finally folded, these cars actually went to Penn Central (reporting marks TOC) before being retired. What famous slogan was emblazoned on these cars?

[henry6]

CShaveRR

I will make a guess at the railroads (not allowed to look anything up): Wellsville, Addison & Galeton, and the Coudersport & Port Allegheny. I figure that Pennsylvania is pretty much right, but it has to be close t the northern edge of the state.

You got it!  The rail answer is the main one.  The three springs are at Newfield Jct. on the two roads near Gold. One spring feeds Pine Creek, a tributary of the West Branch of the Susquehanna which empties into Chesapeak Bay.  The western outlet is the Allegheny to the Ohio to the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.  The northern spring is the Genesee River to Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence RIver and Bay. Its not far from Ulysess where the C&PA connected with a branch of  New York Central's branch to Jersey Shore.  Of course, the WAG here was B&O's early hope to gain Buffalo, NY but which only got as far north as Wellsville, NY and an Erie hook up. After the southern piece up, over and through the Wharton tract to Driftwood was abandoned just below Galeton the line was operated as a disjointed "branch" line but was spun out in the mid 50's as a shortline (Salzberg?). 

CshaveRR, we await your question.

[CShaveRR]

I will make a guess at the railroads (not allowed to look anything up): Wellsville, Addison & Galeton, and the Coudersport & Port Allegheny. I figure that Pennsylvania is pretty much right, but it has to be close to the northern edge of the state.

[henry6]

Mike, you're half way there.  No more hints until later today or tomorrow...unless you get it of course!

[wanswheel]

High elevation in Pennsylvania. Tributaries to Susquehanna, Allegheny and a river to Lake Erie. Delaware, Lackawanna & Western connects to one or the other of the short lines. Or none of the above. Wonderful question though.

Mike

[henry6]

KCSfan

Henry,

I hope you don't expect anyone to answer this one without any (actually lots of) research.

Mark

It depends on one's knowledge of historical short lines...and geography...You might be right but we might all be surprised

[Anonymous]

I was going to answer CSX and NS before I saw the part about "former shortline railroads... I have no idea...

[KCSfan]

henry6

I had to sleep on this and then spend another hour this morning before coming up with a decent question.  And I'm not sure I'm awake yet, but here goes;

There is a point in the east where there are three springs virtually within sight of each other and within sight of the junction of two well known former short line railroads.  One spring's waters goes to the Great Lakes , the second to the Chesapeake Bay and the third to the Gulf of Mexico.  What were the two railroads?  Bonus I: town location and junction name.  Bonus II:  name any or all water courses fed by these three springs.

Henry,

I hope you don't expect anyone to answer this one without any (actually lots of) research.

Mark

[henry6]

I had to sleep on this and then spend another hour this morning before coming up with a decent question.  And I'm not sure I'm awake yet, but here goes;

There is a point in the east where there are three springs virtually within sight of each other and within sight of the junction of two well known former short line railroads.  One spring's waters goes to the Great Lakes , the second to the Chesapeake Bay and the third to the Gulf of Mexico.  What were the two railroads?  Bonus I: town location and junction name.  Bonus II:  name any or all water courses fed by these three springs.

[wanswheel]

Henry, yes William Crooks was at Seattle, New York and Chicago. You're up.

http://collections.mnhs.org/VisualResources/VRDbimages/pf030/pf030546.jpg

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN31126

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/curtis&CISOPTR=1694&CISOBOX=1&REC=6

Mike

[henry6]

Since we are not supposed to look things up, I am taking a stab with a two pronged fork: William Mason or William Crooks.

[wanswheel]

Not Tom Thumb, at least not in 1909 in Seattle.  But there's this neat little film clip featuring Tom Thumb that I keep on desktop forever. It's fun to watch. Downloading it is a minor nuisance that's truly worth the trouble. Totally recommended to everyone.

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN10445

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P04078.jpg

http://www.corbismotion.com/Popups/ViewClipDetail.aspx?clipID=7fffb707-0000-c8f9-2b02-162b20291941

Mike

[oltmannd]

How about that B&O Tom Thumb?

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

CShaveRR

The tourist line from Marquette to Big Bay was the Marquette & Huron Mountain. But wasn't that previously operated by the LS&I? Or am I confusing the line with the locomotives (which were former LS&I 2-8-0s)?

Carl - and Johnny -

I think you're right on everything you're recalling.  The "trick" part is that I believe the M&HM tourist line was a tenant (only) - they didn't own the underlying track or operate the rest of the line for freight - all of that was still the LS&I, as well as the locos.

I have a couple of pretty good references for the names & details - such as the towns that the M&HM operated between (it wasn't the whole line) -  but they're about 12 miles away.  I'll check into them and see if they add anything over the weekend.  Also the corporate history / names of the M&SE and predecessors, if anyone's interested.

- Paul North.

[wanswheel]

Dave, 128.5 or something. Anything's possible but I don't see 999 in Seattle, just NY and Chicago.

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN10453

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P04119.jpg

Think wood. Henry Ford would.

Mike

[daveklepper]

New York Central 999, the first locomotive to operate ove 100 mph.

[wanswheel]

What locomotive attended the 1909 Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition, the 1939 New York World's Fair and the 1948 Chicago Railroad Fair?

Mike

[Deggesty]

Thanks for the picture of the W Road, Mike. I drove up at least once and down at least once in the late fifties (in a '50 Dodge, not a Tin Lizzie). The road surface had been much improved by then. I used the main road up and down much more often.

Looking in Edson's Railroad Names, I find that the Marquette & SE existed from FY'02 to 7/1911 when it, along with the Munising, went into the Munising, Marquette & SE--which, in turn, went into the Lake Superior & Ishpeming. I would never have guessed the answer to any of Paul's question.

Johnny

[CShaveRR]

The tourist line from Marquette to Big Bay was the Marquette & Huron Mountain. But wasn't that previously operated by the LS&I? Or am I confusing the line with the locomotives (which were former LS&I 2-8-0s)?