Off Topic - Why do americans need such big cars???

[Anonymous]

Hmmm... I can diagnose and repair hybrid vehicles but I can't use a quote and respond properly! Must be my keyboard- yeah, thats it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Dave,

So far Hybrid vehicles are fairly small vehicles, really city cars, but there is no reason why the principle couldn't be applied to mid size cars, or smaller SUVs. The weight and capacity of the battery would be a problem, so the performance on electric power might be more restricted, but the energy saving from regenerating would still be there.

Peter

The second generation Prius has more interior room than a Corolla and almost as much as a Camry. Torque and horsepower have been increased- it really gets up and goes! (much better than gen 1). The main (high-voltage) battery weighs around 100 pounds. Hybrid v-6 and v-8's are coming- Toyota is restructuring some of its production facilities to be able to produce the same model in gasoline or hybrid on the same assembly line. Look for them soon at a Toyota dealer near you!

[UPTRAIN]

I'd drive em all!!!

[Train Guy 3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

Well I'll agree, there's that, too! (Don't forget the GTX...)

I can't believe i forgot the GTX..... i even have a picture of a red one beside a SD45-2 above my bed. Well i forgot the Bel-Air too and the GTO and th...... well i could list great cars for days like i could list trains, so I'm gonna stop while I'm ahead. haha

[Modelcar]

....Good American C I and gobs of torque= delightful fun.

[UPTRAIN]

I drive a 2004 Chevy Extended Cab V8 4x4 mo-pac blue...and damn proud of it!!!

[Anonymous]

I LOVE HORSEPOWER!!!! I have a 1985 Ford Mustang GT, which is currently at 245 horsepower, and when finances will allow, I'll pump it up to the 350hp + range, but that still probably won't be enough! I'm not happy unless I can pass EVERYTHING on the highway EXCEPT the gas stations[:D]. Remember, there is NO replacement for displacement!! Has your Audi ever gone from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds[:0], or less[:D]??? That is the ultimate experience, being thrown back against the seat so hard that the passengers can't lift thier arms off the seats!!![:D][:D] G-forces, my friend, G-forces!!!![:D]

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I'll just have to keep asking the question: 'What about hybrids? Dave Klepper

Dave -- I think several people have answered the question, in effect. Peter, just after your post, and myself, a number of posts earlier, for example. Hybrids are certainly viable, and have some real advantages. The one I have driven -- the Honda flavour -- is a fine, fun little car. The bigger hybrids in trucks will be out in a year or two; no reason why they won't be just as good, although, as Peter noted, you do lose carrying capacity with the batteries (and carrying capacity is what a truck is all about).
To relate to rail: the Green Goat locomotive currently on the market and in use in several areas is a hybrid, and seems to work quite well. In the market for which it is designed -- switching -- the weight penalty from the batteries is not a problem: you need weight, and you don't need big-time horsepower all that often.
It's worth noting that the advantage of the hybrid design decreases as the proportion of 'highway' mileage (whether open road or mainline rail) goes up related to 'stop and go' (city driving or switching). The advantages of the hybrid come from two sources: prmarily from being able to use an engine which has the average horsepower necessary to perform the mission, and secondarily from optimizing that engine to run its very best at one specific power output.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

So..... where does GM sell beter, locomtives or cars?

picture the Mookie in a roadrunner - orange, a mustang convertible - red with white rag top and a Nova. Owned the RR, borrowed the Mustang and got the Nova well past it's prime! But fond memories, anyway!

[M636C]

Dave,

So far Hybrid vehicles are fairly small vehicles, really city cars, but there is no reason why the principle couldn't be applied to mid size cars, or smaller SUVs. The weight and capacity of the battery would be a problem, so the performance on electric power might be more restricted, but the energy saving from regenerating would still be there.

Peter

[daveklepper]

I'll just have to keep asking the question: 'What about hybrids? Dave Klepper

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train Guy 3

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

Well I'll agree, there's that, too! (Don't forget the GTX...)

[Anonymous]

I need a big car to have room to take my 2 hour naps coming home from my terminal when I am working on my rest sometimes it's all the rest I can get...

Having a V-8 is nice too in a mid-size SUV that can get out of it's own way...

LC

[dave9999]

It's not that we need big cars, it's that we can get big cars. Big vehicles are as available as small vehicles. I work in construction and would destroy a small truck in a
matter of days. For example, last week I pulled a trailer loaded with well over 1500 lbs of
wood to Defuniak Springs, Fl ( about 85 miles from Pensacola). A TOYota would have been coughing and chocking on the first hill.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=126522&ck=

BTW, to make this post train related, I saw a lot of MOW work along Hwy 90 from Mossy Head to Defuniak. They were replacing rail, taking up the old in loooong sections and
laying them along the right of way. The Mow trains were parked on the Mossy Head wye.
Which I believe extends on towards Eglin AFB(?) Help me out dharmon. I'm sure you've
had a birds eye view of this area. Dave

[Train Guy 3]

I hate the cars of today, to ugly for me. Sure they got a bunch of neat gizmos but they dont have the class of the past. I crave for the old days for the great wheels of the roads.... The Stringrays, the Novas, the Chevelles, the Roadrunners/Superbirds, the Chargers/Challerger/Daytonas, the Torinos, the Olds 442s, the Trans AMs, the Cameros, the Mach 1s, the AC Cobras, the El Caminos......... I'll take those cars and there big gas burning engines anyday of the week.

So..... where does GM sell beter, locomtives or cars?

[Jordan6]

For the ladies.[(-D]

[Anonymous]

Six months ago in America unleaded gas 87 octane was cheaper than diesel, but that is not the case today.... diesel is around 10 cents cheaper today...

As for Iraq, like I said above, we are not short of oil, there is plenty of oil to last decades....the problem is that we are running our refineries at capacity. The reason why there aren't any refineries under construction is the simple fact that we need several, not one.... West coast oil is thicker than Sweet Texas Intermediate, and Persian Gulf oil is even thinner....Different areas of the country consume different types, and need different settings for the refineries..... Not even Saudi Arabia wants to build another refinery, they are happy refining the oil they use. Its up to us to refine what we use, but not one company is interested in building any.....or expanding current refineries... The simple truth is the fact that we won't pump any more than what we are currently pumping worldwide, and demand has surpassed pumping and refinery capacities....

In other words, peak oil....

Ever since Jimmy Carter killed the oil depreciation allowance, that is when refineries stopped being built..... Refineries are not buildings, they are machines, and every other machine can be depreciated, but not in the oil business.....

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

Jamie; you're right about that weight of vehicle is a major factor in fuel economy, and so is wind drag at higher speeds. But the thing is a Bavarian BMW is NOT the same as a BMW over here (USA), many BMW's here are made in Mexico, the ones that are imported from Germany are made to American specs, including the motor. The Bavarian Beamers are slightly more efficient, so unless you have a BMW built in Germany that wasn't intended to go to the USA then it's not the same.

True, oh sage, on the Bavarian Beemers... and the build quality you can get here isn't quite as good. On the other hand, where I live, premium gas (which they both seem to need) costs... mucho bucks. When you can find it. Whereas my rat motored truck is perfectly happy on the 87[:D].

I deliberately left out driver habits when talking about fuel economy... and modelcar, you are so right! A lead-foot can eat twice the gas of a smoothie, regardless of what he's driving. As well as terrorizing the rest of us...[:)]

[M636C]

Supermicha

Using the following factors:

1 kilometre = 0.621 miles

1 US gallon = 3.79 litres

Your car gets 33.62 miles per US gallon.(which is good, but not amazing!)

A 150HP car getting 10litres/100km will get 23.5 miles per US gallon

My Australian car gets 10 litres/100 km, but we tend to think of gallons as having 4.54 litres (A British or perhaps "Imperial" gallon) so we like to say "28 miles per gallon" . All the English readers will understand this!

When Australia converted to Metric units (more formally "SI" for "Systeme Internationale") in 1973, the old system was invariably called "Imperial", which didn't go down well in the USA when I called it that. But there were enough differences from the US system for it to have a separate name.

Another point is the octane rating of the fuel. Is 95 octane the basic fuel in Germany, or is that a premium fuel? Most of the discussion here probably refers to 87 octane, if my recollection of Modelcar's postings is correct. So you have to make some adjustment for the additional energy value of 95 octane, because fuel consumption with higher octane fuel is reduced compared to lower octane fuel.

The weight of a car is important in fuel consumption, and so is frontal area and streamlining, sometimes measured as a coefficient, Cx, with a rectangular block being equal to 1.

But the power to weight ratio is important, and often a car with say a 3 litre V-6 engine will return better fuel consumption in the real world compared to the same car with a 2 litre 4 cylinder, depending on the relative loading experienced by the engines.

In dynamometer tests, of course with the car standing still inside a building, the smaller engine will always be more economical. Some government tests are carried out on dynamometers, and should be treated with scepticism until real road tests confirm (or not) the result.

Peter

[Anonymous]

I WANT ONE OF THOSE KW'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TH&B]

Jamie; you're right about that weight of vehicle is a major factor in fuel economy, and so is wind drag at higher speeds. But the thing is a Bavarian BMW is NOT the same as a BMW over here (USA), many BMW's here are made in Mexico, the ones that are imported from Germany are made to American specs, including the motor. The Bavarian Beamers are slightly more efficient, so unless you have a BMW built in Germany that wasn't intended to go to the USA then it's not the same.

[CBQ_Guy]

It's a guy thing!

[Modelcar]

....Yes, of course MPG stands for miles per gallon.....and in above post on variables in achieving fuel mileage. Fuel consumption is very much influenced by the driver. Some people can accomplish a drive with smooth moderate start ups and steady driving, etc...and another driver will consume much more fuel in same type of vehicle by his habit of foot heavy into the throttle in start ups and in his on throttle off throttle driving over the road using much more fuel than first driver. [8D]

[jchnhtfd]

PS -- I might add that the superior efficiency of the hybrid vehicles does not come through some kind of magic: it is because of the regenerative braking which can be used (the batteries are recharged when the car is slowing or braking) instead of dissipating all the energy as heat in the brakes...

[jchnhtfd]

A word or two on fuel economy and a few other sundries here...

First off, fuel economy: all else being equal (which it almost never is![:)]) the fuel usage of a given vehicle is influenced, more than anything else, by the weight of the vehicle. Heavy vehicle, more fuel. The relationship is almost exactly linear (that is, if your vehicle is twice as heavy as mine, it will use twice as much fuel) at relatively low speeds. As speeds increase, say above perhaps 30 mph (50 kmph), the drag of the vehicle becomes increasingly important -- and the drag is very closely related (within a factor of 2) to the front end area (height times width) of the vehicle.

One might observe at this point that SUVs, for example, lose rather badly on both counts... oh well.

But what about engine size? What about 4 cylinders vs. 6 or V6 or V8? Doesn't that make a difference. In a nutshell, not much. It will make a difference if the vehicle is sufficiently underpowered that it is simply not capable of the road speed that a larger engine might provide -- that is one of the things I meant by 'other things being equal'[:D] -- but if one were to restrict the vehicle with the larger engine to the same speeds as the little engine, the difference would disappear. The number of cylinders is almost entirely an engineering decision, and has almost no effect on fuel efficiency. The compression ratio of an engine has a substantial effect, however, which is why diesels (high compression) have better fuel efficiency than gasoline (lower compression) engines, and why supercharged or turbocharged engines have better efficiency that naturally aspirated engines.

The fuel used also has a definite effect: recently here in the US many states have decided that we will all be better off using gasoline spiked with ethanol -- but that fuel has only about 90% of the energy per gallon that straight gasoline does. Guess what: your gas mileage gets worse on ethanol spiked gas.

In response to supermicha's comments that our cars are 'really thirsty', I would note that a BMW in North America is exactly as efficient as one in Bavaria. But as many have pointed out, it simply won't take the pounding that a lot of us (especially on this forum!) have, of necessity, to give our cars.

[Anonymous]

A lot of this has to do with how we use our vehicles and road conditions and the size of our country. I drive a 3/4 ton pickup because we have a pickup camper that we use for vacations. My wife drives an SUV. Both are 4 wheel drive because on any given day, for five months out of the year, it may snow, ice, sleet in combination to almost any depth. We both commute over 50 miles a day and there is no public transport in our rural area. Would I rather drive more efficient, environmentally friendly vehicles? Sure! They just don't make sense for the way I live.

[Supermicha]

Excuse my question, but what are mpg´s? I could imagine "miles per gallon". Is that right? If yes, your cars are really thursty i think. My car just needs 7 liters of unloaded gas (95 octan) for 100 kilometers, a normal 150 hp engine is going with 10 till 12 liters per 100 kilomters, and 15 till 20 liters are much and very rare here in germany.

[Anonymous]

Easy! Trucks have 4wd, cars don't. When you live in an area that gets snow, you will be glad that you have the ability to put in 4wd and burn like rubber. With a 2wd you'll be sliddin all over the road when ever you have to make a turn or come to a stop. The only problem is that some people feel overcomfident when they have 4wd. Plus when the time comes when you can experience what its like to go off road and splashin through the mud puddles and goin up hills and goin through the woods, you will want a truck. Trust me its a cheap thrill but its fun.[:D]

Like a few have said, how are ya gonna pull a trailer or haul a load of dirt, lumber, block, etc with a car? It just can't be done. You'll be lucky to even get it out of the driveway. But than again most people who own a truck, dont use it for any of the purpose, specifically the "soccer moms" out there.

Also like I always say, if you can't afford to drive a truck, you shouldnt be driving one. Simple as that. Its not cheap to drive a truck, but I dont complain.

Personally I think cars of today just look ugly but than again some of the new trucks do too. I do like the older cars and trucks. Those were made of steel unlike these new vehicles out there that have more plastic than anything else.

Well thats my 2 cents.

[Modelcar]

25 mpg is not bad fuel economy...It's all relevant. Matters to what you compare it too....I think back to over 50 years ago and driving a 1949 Fleetline Deluxe Chevrolet...and getting 21 mpg and that was good for that era and autos of then...so now our vehicles that can get 25 mpg aren't really that bad. Sure little vehicles can be bought that get much more...but is it all that necessary. My over the road passenger car I drive now can run for hundreds of miles at 28 to 30 mpg at interstate speeds easy and that is just fine with me too....

[cpbloom]

The new Kenworth Pilgrimage, LOL!
No, LOL x 10!