Commuter & Freight Trains Collide North Of Los Angeles

[caldreamer]

Fox News is reporting that a commuter and a freight train collided north of Los Angeles.  No details yet.  I will post more information as it comes in.

[CSXDixieLine]

More information from the LA Times:

2 reported dead as Metrolink cars crash into freight train
"A Metrolink train and a Union Pacific freight train collided in Chatsworth this afternoon, causing several cars to derail and starting a blaze. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department reported two dead and authorities said they expected the death toll to rise."

Photos available on their site.

Jamie

EDIT: One of the photos looks real bad. One of the MetroLink cars appears to have telescoped completely, with only some of the car side recognizable.

[caldreamer]

Just saw some video of the crash from MSNBC,  Collision occured in Chatsworth in the San Fernando Valley.  It was a head on collision where two track become single track on a sharp curve.  One of the UP engines is #8491 an EMD SD70ACe.  The lead engine is black from the smoke and no good picture of the number.  It occured at 4:32 PM PST according to the reports.

[CSXDixieLine]

From the aerial coverage it looks like the NB MetroLink collided with the SB Union Pacific along the curve just about 200-300 feet south of the tunnel there in Chatsworth. I think this is the exact spot:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=34.271878&lon=-118.60135&z=18.4&r=0&src=msl

Very sad...hoping and praying for the best for all involved.

Jamie

[GP-9_Man11786]

Here's a link to MSNBC's story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26680908/

[Limitedclear]

Death toll now reported at 4 with many additional injured, at least 8 reported critical.

Report according to CNN News.

LC

[CrazyDelmar]

Right now, I see reports of 30 to 40 people injured, with 4 fatalities.

[edblysard]

It took me a minute to find the Metro Link locomotive...I saw the fuel tank sitting on the tracks and realized it had telescoped back into the trailing car...thats a bad, bad wreck...any word on the UP crew?

[Limitedclear]

It took me a minute to find the Metro Link locomotive...I saw the fuel tank sitting on the tracks and realized it had telescoped back into the trailing car...thats a bad, bad wreck...any word on the UP crew?

Ed -

UP crew reported uninjured. Initial reports on UTU page indicate collision was a rear end collision with the Metrolink train rear ending the UP train. Fataility count is now at 10 as of 7:00 PDT according to CNN. CNN indicates it was a head on collision...

LC

[Doublestack]

It looks like the Metrolink locomotive telescoped into the 1st trailing passgr car very badly- probably a major contributor to the deaths / injuries.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traincrash13-pg,0,286376.photogallery?index=6

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traincrash13-pg,0,286376.photogallery?index=7

If this was a case of Metrolink rear-ending the UP train, then the UP train would have had to have a 2 unit DPU at the rear-end.

 

[MRH044]

It looks more like a headend collision because of the way the freight cars folded together. The lead unit I believe was number 8384 ?? of 8485?? Hard to get a clear picture. Death toll has risen to 11 and most likely that number will increase through the night. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone who was involved.  

[DMUinCT]

 Lead UP loco was 8485.   CNN is reporting it was a "switching error".

[rrboomer]

First story says:

Tyrell (spokesperson) said that two Metrolink subcontractors were working on the train as the conductor and an engineer. She said it remains unclear what caused the collision.

Metrolink subcontractors??

[Southwest Chief]

It is an awful wreck and there are several fatalities. It might end up being Metrolink's worse wreck.

I'd hate to speculate this early, but I think Metrolink may have ran a signal or the signals were not operating properly.  The CNN reported "switching error" sounds correct.

This Map shows where the collision took place. If you pan down (south) a bit you will see where the line goes down from double tracks to a single track due to several tunnels to the northwest.  Metrolink had just left Chatsworth and was heading north.  UP was heading south. The wreck occurred close to the signals where Metrolink would have been held.  UP may have also ran a signal, but this is northwest and far from the wreck site.

The Coast Starlight and other trains will obviously be disrupted for several days.

Terrible tragedy. I'm praying for those whose families may be affected by this.

[Railway Man]

First story says:

Tyrell (spokesperson) said that two Metrolink subcontractors were working on the train as the conductor and an engineer. She said it remains unclear what caused the collision.

Metrolink subcontractors??

Veolia, a French-based multinational rail infrastructure and operating contractor, operates the trains under contract since July 2005.  Prior to that time Amtrak was the operating contractor.  Operating contracts are very common for commuter rail authorities, who do not usually have the economies of scale to effectively provide the train crews, as well as track maintenance, signal maintenance, dispatching, equipment maintenance, engineering design, construction management, environmental management, ticketing, marketing, and all the other services ncessary to run a passenger railroad.  The actual "railroad" itself at some commuter agencies is a surprisingly thin staff of as little as a dozen people, who manage the contractors.

Veolia is also a contractor for rail passenger services in the U.S. in Austin, Boston, Denver, Miami, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, N.C., and San Diego.

RWM

[SactoGuy188]

According to the Los Angeles Times, the death toll is 15 with several more still unaccounted for.

[BaltACD]

Toll now at 17

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_re_us/train_collision_57

[CrazyDiamond]

I'd hate to speculate this early, but I think Metrolink may have ran a signal or the signals were not operating properly.  The CNN reported "switching error" sounds correct.

.....The wreck occurred close to the signals where Metrolink would have been held.  UP may have also ran a signal, but this is northwest and far from the wreck site.

LA Times article seems to suggest either signal failure, or human failure to read&obey signal as the lilkely cause where investigators will likely look into first:

"Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board will examine many possibilities, but the most immediate questions are these: Did a warning signal malfunction? Did crew members not notice a stop signal, or did an engineer fail to follow protocols designed to move trains safely through the area?"

Full story at:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-why13-2008sep13,0,7736520.story

The part I don't get is; One of these trains had to have go past a siding earlier. We know the commuter train is scheduled, and the article seems to suggest that 'meets' at the siding were common. So why wasn't the siding lined so that the first train had to go into it? At least the train is forced to go into it (or derail if speed is too high) versus creating a head-on scenario. In this age of advanced interlock control I would think its would be impossible to allow two trains to get put into a head-on scenario. Just a thought.

[BaltACD]

The part I don't get is; One of these trains had to have go past a siding earlier. We know the commuter train is scheduled, and the article seems to suggest that 'meets' at the siding were common. So why wasn't the siding lined so that the first train had to go into it? At least the train is forced to go into it (or derail if speed is too high) versus creating a head-on scenario. In this age of advanced interlock control I would think its would be impossible to allow two trains to get put into a head-on scenario. Just a thought.

If the Freight train was lined to go to the siding to meet the Passenger train.  The Signal would have been RED for the Passenger train and most likely the switch lined for the Freight train to take siding.  However the design of switches, power and other, allows the switches to be trailed throuh without derailing the train, unless the train attempts to make a reverse movement once the switch has been run-through, as running through a switch breaks the mechanism that locks that switch points in place.

[CrazyDiamond]

If the Freight train was lined to go to the siding to meet the Passenger train.  The Signal would have been RED for the Passenger train and most likely the switch lined for the Freight train to take siding.  However the design of switches, power and other, allows the switches to be trailed throuh without derailing the train, unless the train attempts to make a reverse movement once the switch has been run-through, as running through a switch breaks the mechanism that locks that switch points in place.

Okay, but surely running through a switch that is lined the other way is going to create enough 'wiggle and noise' that the engineers/operators would know something wrong just happened.

[dmitzel]

If the Freight train was lined to go to the siding to meet the Passenger train.  The Signal would have been RED for the Passenger train and most likely the switch lined for the Freight train to take siding.  However the design of switches, power and other, allows the switches to be trailed throuh without derailing the train, unless the train attempts to make a reverse movement once the switch has been run-through, as running through a switch breaks the mechanism that locks that switch points in place.

Okay, but surely running through a switch that is lined the other way is going to create enough 'wiggle and noise' that the engineers/operators would know something wrong just happened.

Not necessarily, but a run-though switch - where the tie bars are broken - will be a "smoking gun" and evidence as to where the (human) error occured.

I imagine that this is CTC territory too, if these are power switches. The dispatcher (and their CTC system/software) should have a record of who was cleared through, and which train overran their authority. Also, the UP engines (and perhaps Metrolink as well) should have cab camera footage of the minutes leading up to the wreck, if the recordings are recoverable.

It shouldn't take too long to get the facts out, considering the technology now involved. My dollar's going towards crew error on one of the trains - someone ran a red-over-red, stop-and-stay absolute signal. Considering all the "green" crews running out there - all the old "heads" retiring - I'm not surprised to see all the wrecks we've seen lately.

[cnwfan2]

Yahoo News has the story on this,as well as 90 pictures of the incident.From what is seen,the Union Pacific train was on the mainline,as it approached the siding.The Metrolink train was in the siding.So,it looks like the Metrolink failed to stop.I find it unreal that the Metrolink trains go that fast...........to knock a 6 axle locomotive off the track, and a some railcars as well.Speechless is what I am right now,dont know what else one can say.

[eolafan]

I saw the Yahoo News photos and some clearly show the track curvature which seems quite severe. One of the photos also seem to show the overturned UP unit with fuel tank ruptured, which could have contributed to the extent of the tragedy. This is going to be one heck of an investigation as somebody accidentally or otherwise caused this tragedy...either by neglect, incorrect actions by accident, or (God forbid) deliberately set this tragedy in motion. Only time will tell which one of these it is.

[hrbdizzle]

I work for UP, and we had a debriefing this morning before tying up from a run.

The UP was taking the Siding had an engine in the siding and the Metro train ran the Red striking inbetween the first and second unit on the UP.

There where 4 crew man on board, a Enginemen, Trainmen, Brakeman and a Student. Either CIT or BIT.

UP was definitely on a diverging signal into the siding.

[TH&B]

I find it unreal that the Metrolink trains go that fast...........to knock a 6 axle locomotive off the track, and a some railcars as well.Speechless is what I am right now,dont know what else one can say.

 

Well the track is gonna bend/break at the collision weather the Metrolink train is moving or not.  The weight of the freight train will crush in on itself pushing it's locomotive off the track.

[arkansasrailfan]

this happened a few years ago when a BNSF train rear ended a Metrolink train. Crew argued at whether the signal was green or red, and green won.
Death toll is at 18 and counting. When a fast passenger train hits a heavy freight, the passenger will tend to bounce off of the freight, since it is lighter. Just a bit of physics. I just saw video of the UP engines. The cab and nose on one is destroyed and the other seems to have the same. The Metro engine appears to have burned up. One of the cars looks like it was crushed into pieces.
EDIT: looks like the lead unit rode up on the Metro engine, destroying it, and the first car piled up and has severe damage. The UP engine shows that it got some damage

[BaltACD]

If the Freight train was lined to go to the siding to meet the Passenger train.  The Signal would have been RED for the Passenger train and most likely the switch lined for the Freight train to take siding.  However the design of switches, power and other, allows the switches to be trailed throuh without derailing the train, unless the train attempts to make a reverse movement once the switch has been run-through, as running through a switch breaks the mechanism that locks that switch points in place.

Okay, but surely running through a switch that is lined the other way is going to create enough 'wiggle and noise' that the engineers/operators would know something wrong just happened.

The parts that break or bend when a switch is run-through create virtually no noise or feeling when one considers the ambiant noise in a locomotive as well as the relative mass of a locomotive and the parts that get bent or broken.

[BaltACD]

I work for UP, and we had a debriefing this morning before tying up from a run.

The UP was taking the Siding had an engine in the siding and the Metro train ran the Red striking inbetween the first and second unit on the UP.

There where 4 crew man on board, a Enginemen, Trainmen, Brakeman and a Student. Either CIT or BIT.

UP was definitely on a diverging signal into the siding.

Sounds very similar to the MARC/Amtrak collision at Silver Spring, MD a few years ago.  The MARC train left a station stop, forgetting that the signal prior to the station stop had been an Approach indication, (approach next signal prepared to stop), the MARC train accelerated away from the station stop to track speed, came around a curve, saw the absolute signals for the interlocking at Stop and Amtrak crossing over from #2 track to #1 track....collision immediately followed.

[beaulieu]

Yes, I was thinking of Silver Spring, MD too. The UP train is the Leesdale local, locomotives are SD70ACe 8485 leading and 8491 trailing, the UP crew has relatively minor injuries. The Metrolink train is #111 lead by locomotive 855, a F59PH (not a F59PHI), followed by coaches 185 and 287, the trailing cab car hasn't been identified in any report I have seen. The Metrolink locomotive was driven into the leading coach by the impact estimated as nearly a combined 80 mph with the frame of coach 185 shearing off the locomotive's trucks and fuel tank. The Metrolink Engineer is reported to have not survived the crash, but the Conductor back in the train has survived with serious injuries. The curve at the crash site is approximately a 6 degree curve which is fairly sharp. It is very fortunate that the crash didn't have a few hundred feet further west in the tunnel. The Metrolink train had just made a station stop at Chatsworth.

 

As a point of reference, the two UP SD70ACes weigh more than the whole Metrolink passenger train.

The UP train was lined for the siding, but the available photographs show that the collision was effectively head-on. The collision would have been much less severe if the leading UP locomotive had reached the siding switch and been diverted before the impact.

[upchuck]

Fox news just reported that the Metrolink contracted engineer went through a red signal.