Graffiti is telling us something...

[selector]

This thread has run down the same path as previous such threads.  It doesn't seem to net us much in the way of advancement one way or another.  It has ended with the same polarity. So, let's move on to other topics.

-Crandell

[Ulrich]

Why should I do anything for you?

[joegreen]

You missed the whole point Pig Farmer...it's not the graffiti..it's more about how easy it is to access rolling stock. I appreciate that you aren't concerned about it...hey...if you were making the payments on that equipment you'd be concerned I'll bet...

We railfans really are not all that anal...just bringing up the point for discussion. Personally I don't care about graffiti...it simply underscores the modern "I don't give a **** about you and yours" mentality that seems to prevail in today's self centered society...this time in the name of "art". Back in the day "art" was a nice painting or sculpture. Today art can be two day old dog crap or a dress made of skin...or some spray paint abomination on a freight car..

 

 

Cry me a river

[MOPACnut]

I do remember one time when a railroad allowed the public to put graffiti on a freight car. I even took part in it.

Santa Fe brought that rail-o-gram boxcar supporting the SP/SF merger to either the 1986 or 1987 topeka railroad days. And me and my family signed it.

[Ulrich]

You missed the whole point Pig Farmer...it's not the graffiti..it's more about how easy it is to access rolling stock. I appreciate that you aren't concerned about it...hey...if you were making the payments on that equipment you'd be concerned I'll bet...

We railfans really are not all that anal...just bringing up the point for discussion. Personally I don't care about graffiti...it simply underscores the modern "I don't give a **** about you and yours" mentality that seems to prevail in today's self centered society...this time in the name of "art". Back in the day "art" was a nice painting or sculpture. Today art can be two day old dog crap or a dress made of skin...or some spray paint abomination on a freight car..

 

 

[Modelcar]

.....We're all entitled to an opinion.

[PigFarmer1]

All this graffiti stuff tells me is that railfans as a whole are really quite anal.  I work for U.P. and I've never once heard anyone get upset about it.  Tagging a car doesn't keep that car from hauling freight.  The only time any of my co-workers EVER comments about graffiti is when a particularly good picture goes by us.  Most of us are more concerned about how the railroad disrespects us to care about whether a tagger is disrespecting the railroad by painting a car.

[Modelcar]

.....I would imagine the RR would do all that's necessary to refrain to even acknowledge of any "artist's"......Let alone set up the condition that the "painters" would have a place to do their "work".

They would like to get on with railroading's business....Commerce transportation.  Certainly to not be inundated with such nuisance to their rolling stock and potential liability of people tresspassing on their property.

[tnchpsk8]

  To play Devil's Advocate here for a minute, why not look at this problem from a different angle. As a railroad, why not paint the car in primer, hunt down the graffiti artist and turn him loose on the car, free paint job! Establish parameters for him to work in, such as, car ID markings necessary for the railroad to conduct their business are off-limits and the artwork must in some part of it contain the artists rendtion of the owner's name/logo.

 

The Smurf car, Care bears and the third car all tastefully done are what I was referring to when when I made my original statement, see above. The rairoad hunts down the graffiti artist and PERMITS him to paint the car. That is not defacing private property that is artwork CONDONED by the owner. The owner is simply getting a FREE paint job.

[Mailman56701]

  Yep, it is telling us something.  It's telling us that its perfectly acceptable to vandalize private property............as long as its in the name of <cough> art.

  Well, at least thats the vandal apologists spiel

[SW 1200]

Nothing against you Soo6604.  I am trying to make a rhetorical point that seems to escape some on this forum.  That point is this: Graffiti is illegal and wrong. 

And joegreen, it is not the fact that a graffitied house or car exists, it is the idea that the graffiti apoligists' argument can be extended to other objects.  It doesn't take a huge a leap of imagination for a reasonable person to guess what you are going to do in the railyard tonight.  Just tell me your tagger name so I can look for your "work" while I am railfanning in Illinois. 

[Soo 6604]

" border="0" />

Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.

They even redid the reporting marks

 

"They even redid the reporting marks." 

I guess that makes it okay then. 

It looks good yes, and it would look good on the wall of a day care center, but the persons who did this did not own this rail car and they did not have permission to do this.  Using that logic then I guess it would be okay to do this to someones house or car as long as the vandal repainted the house address number or the word Chevrolet back on when they were done. 

 

 

I was just pointing out that they "redid the reporting marks"

[tree68]

 I want someone to show me a pic of a house or vehicle with graffiti on it, it generally doesnt happen unless its a cop car. Since everyone talks about how they would feel if their house was painted over Id like to see an example of this "house".

Google Images "graffiti house."   Plenty of examples, some intentional, some not.

[joegreen]

"They even redid the reporting marks." 

I guess that makes it okay then. 

It looks good yes, and it would look good on the wall of a day care center, but the persons who did this did not own this rail car and they did not have permission to do this.  Using that logic then I guess it would be okay to do this to someones house or car as long as the vandal repainted the house address number or the word Chevrolet back on when they were done. 

 

 

He was making an observation not condoning graffiti. They left the reporting marks because that preserves their piece.  It was stated earlier that if numbers are painted over the car would get stamped. In case you dont know what that is Ill show you a photo of a stamped car. http://www.flickr.com/photos/26333492@N07/2549055478/

Since stamping is happening quickly these days more artists are painting around numbers. Like so.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/thecurseofbrian/2348920473/in/pool-wholecars

 I want someone to show me a pic of a house or vehicle with graffiti on it, it generally doesnt happen unless its a cop car. Since everyone talks about how they would feel if their house was painted over Id like to see an example of this "house".

[SW 1200]

" border="0" />

Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.

They even redid the reporting marks

 

"They even redid the reporting marks." 

I guess that makes it okay then. 

It looks good yes, and it would look good on the wall of a day care center, but the persons who did this did not own this rail car and they did not have permission to do this.  Using that logic then I guess it would be okay to do this to someones house or car as long as the vandal repainted the house address number or the word Chevrolet back on when they were done. 

 

 

[Ted Marshall]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

That statement really goes without saying, doesn't it? Of course it disrespects private property. Private property is disrespected all the time. Hasn't anybody ever cut through someone elses yard to avoid having to walk around the block? Remember trying to be real sly about it too, making sure that the resident or a neighbor doesn't see you? There's a reason why it felt wrong as you were doing it...It's because it was wrong and you knew it. Not to condone or encourage trespassing here...By no means, I assure you. But sadly respect isn't as common as it once was. Besides, I don't believe that the railroads even care about respect anyway, all they care about is making money and having to spend as little as possible.

The real issue here is the defacing of private property. Destroying or ruining the appeal/apperance of something of value that does not belong to you.

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them)

(sure you're not ...Just kidding)

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

That IS a very good point, one of which I share the exact same views and opinions as yours. As I stated in a previous reply:

"Way too much money poured into and resources wasted putting on a front in order to soothe our minds. Way too little concern with the real threats. Bulk HAZMAT on rail is a potential WMD if it falls into the wrong hands. More attention must be paid to places where bulk HAZMAT is unloaded and stored NOT just where it's loaded."

 "I think that if you get caught doing ANYTHING to a railcar that has a HAZMAT placard on it or any adjoining car they should throw the book at you and treat you as a potential terrorist. That may curb the practice but enforcement is key. The way I see it local authorities need to take this threat seriously and not pass the buck to the railroads."

Meaning simply...Railroad and local authorities need to coordinate security efforts with one another and since railroad security is loose by design and railroad police officers are so sparse the local authorities need to be, for the sake of the community they serve, more proactive with regard to what going on where railcars are stored in their towns. With my idea, if you get caught doing anything to, on or near a railcar which contains bulk HAZMAT in a populated area the incident would automatically become an issue of national security and would fall under the jurisdiction of The Dept. of Homeland Security. I guarantee that if people knew that DHS would get involved they may think twice about tagging that car and trespassing for that matter. Just my

[zardoz]

Kuhr Resa and Aware did that smurf car. They also did the care bear car and theres 1 more that only Resa and Aware did.

See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397611@N02/1340583232/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/artistikfunk/2066007267/

As much as I hate graffiti, I gotta admit that those are very nicely done, as is the example from SOO6604. 

[joegreen]

Kuhr Resa and Aware did that smurf car. They also did the care bear car and theres 1 more that only Resa and Aware did.

See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397611@N02/1340583232/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/artistikfunk/2066007267/

[Soo 6604]

" border="0" />

Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.

They even redid the reporting marks

[SW 1200]

Yes, some of the graffiti is artistic but the "artists" are criminals who deface property that does not belong to them.  Although I enjoy the arts and painting, I think the graffiti thing has gotten out of hand.  And although it is difficult to keep people from doing it, I would never condone it.  I think those who do it are losers. 

 

a signature on one of the posts:

"graffiti--a way of life"

My take:

"graffiti--get a life"

 

TonyM

 

From page one of this thread.

TonyM.

[SW 1200]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them) would enjoy it much less on their own car or house or other PERSONAL property. If these so called artists were any good they would be gainfully employed as artists and not vagrant despoilers of others' property.  But they're no good and so they give away their time freely producing crap that nobody wants to see.

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ulrich,

I said essentially the same thing on PAGE ONE of this thread:  These "artists" are criminals who deface property that does not belong to them.  I'll say it again: These so called "artists" are losers.  Arrest them and prosecute them when they are caught.  Make them pay real money to repair the damage they have done.   

Tony Mireles

Calumet City, IL

[Ulrich]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them) would enjoy it much less on their own car or house or other PERSONAL property. If these so called artists were any good they would be gainfully employed as artists and not vagrant despoilers of others' property.  But they're no good and so they give away their time freely producing crap that nobody wants to see.

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

[CSXDixieLine]

I am amazed at how many people think that railcars are part of the public domain and we can do anything we want with them--paint them, hop a ride, etc. They are railroad property and as such are being vandalized when graffiti is applied. Around my area every day when I go to work I see another privacy fence tagged with some Latino gang graffiti. Remember when you used to see nice stained privacy fences? No more around here--they have all been painted over because of the graffiti. And I can almost guarantee when I see it painted over, it will be back within a few weeks. I wonder how the property owners would feel if they were told, "Hey there is no harm done, these are just artists. Maybe you should just let them paint your fence or retaining wall or mailbox or house. No harm done."

Whew want got me fired up today?!? Sorry...  ***END OF RANT*****

[joegreen]

.....Isn't it a fact RR's are thining down all programs and employment as much as possible....

Like the graffiti removal program.

[Modelcar]

.....Isn't it a fact RR's are thining down all programs and employment as much as possible.  I'd doubt if they would want an "art" program in regard to their frieght cars.

I agree about the Liabitlity concerns....

[crewshuttle]

The rail company should not be liable, the tagger is trespassing on railroad property where there can be unexpected movement of cars. If the tagger did not enter the property by the entrance to the yard then it is his fault if he gets injured. Are railroads going to spend millions to fence in their yards to keep out taggers? Rail cops can not be everywhere all the time. I know from hanging out around Balmer Yard in Seattle that there is just one or maybe 2 cops on duty for the whole yard. They patrol the areas that are wide open and accessable to their vehicles. But at the same time in Seattle they like to hang out near a open area close to some sidings in a industrial area. They put a sign up at the end of the pavement stating that it is railroad property. Whoa to those that ignore this when the cop shows up and chews you out if not worse for "trespassing" even in a "safe" area.

 Now as to the issue of graffiti on rail cars, I am with the pro side. If its clean and nice looking and not just 'tags' then why not employ a urban art program. But then again, nice graffiti will be overrun by taggers and others who feel it is their right to overspray the good stuff.

If railroads want to prevent graffiti on their cars then they should do one of two things. 1) "wrap" the car like a transit bus with an advertisement or 2) use a antigraffiti coating on their cars so that the graffiti will come off with a strong detergent.

[Ted Marshall]

To tell the truth I really don't think that most railroads even care about graffiti as much as they do the trespassing element involved. The liability factor rings loudest to me with regard to graffiti. If a tagger (trespasser) fell and injured himself or worse, got struck and killed by a errant freight car or motor who would be liable?

[Modelcar]

....I believe the RR's would like to have freight cars painted as they choose to do it....Common utility type colors.  I'm sure they don't need another "system" to deal with in refreshing cars.  Or painting new ones.

[tnchpsk8]

  To play Devil's Advocate here for a minute, why not look at this problem from a different angle. As a railroad, why not paint the car in primer, hunt down the graffiti artist and turn him loose on the car, free paint job! Establish parameters for him to work in, such as, car ID markings necessary for the railroad to conduct their business are off-limits and the artwork must in some part of it contain the artists rendtion of the owner's name/logo.