mohawkmalone wrote: Or how about using a plastic type paint that spray paint will not adhere to? Dupont,etc., may have something already available!
Or how about using a plastic type paint that spray paint will not adhere to? Dupont,etc., may have something already available!
I believe it is called buff.
WP 3020 wrote:Some things that make some types of cars more desirable for graffiti are smooth sides and the environment they frequent. Coal hoppers in unit trains don't get tagged much because they do stay in constant motion. When they do layover it is usually in a more secure or very sparsely populated way out of the way place. Auto racks travel some rather graffiti rich environments. A few years ago I saw quite a few parked on some branch lines for a very long time. The conditions were perfect for graffiti. Refer cars make excellent targets as well, although some do have ribbed sides, most are involved in a seasonal market.
Yes ribbed sides arent as easy to paint but you take what you get when no prefered cars are around aka Reefers. They always have graffiti on them and that is because they are a graffiti favorite. Take a look at the Railbox boxcars(which are also favorites)..... Since they are in pool service that car is ideal to paint because it will travel farther(BNSF,UP,CSX,NS)....Railbox cars appear on almost every railroad. Autoracks are also a favorite because they are giant, and they arent as ribbed as some hoppers and boxcars. Tank cars a painted less because of the angle you would be painting at....the ladders at the center also create some problems with painting. If you notice most sliding doors on boxcars arent painted because of how ribbed and jagged they normally are. Most boxcars are painted on the left or right side because of the doors. Unless they do an end to end or whole car paint job then the door would have to be painted.
Next time your out watchin trains take note of these things. Youll really see what im talkin about.
Railway Man wrote: santafe347 wrote:I have never seen an aluminum hopper car or gondola with graffiti on it except for a very small one once, but I see all kinds of autoracks with aluminum sides with graffiti all over them. Why is it never on the hoppers (or is it and I have just never seen it)?Coal cars in captive unit train service move with few stops between the mine and the power plant, which are usually fenced and guarded, and always trespasser-adverse, and on the rare occasion when idle are usually parked at the power plant. Autoracks spend much of their life in storage tracks in sketchy neighborhoods or industrial areas because auto traffic is highly cyclical. Coal cars that are in loose-car service, which is where many of the steel cars are now, cycle without regularity between industrial customers and small power plants, and the mines, and thus spend time on spurs and in yards where they are accessible to graffiti, and many of them are now defaced.RWM
santafe347 wrote:I have never seen an aluminum hopper car or gondola with graffiti on it except for a very small one once, but I see all kinds of autoracks with aluminum sides with graffiti all over them. Why is it never on the hoppers (or is it and I have just never seen it)?
Coal cars in captive unit train service move with few stops between the mine and the power plant, which are usually fenced and guarded, and always trespasser-adverse, and on the rare occasion when idle are usually parked at the power plant. Autoracks spend much of their life in storage tracks in sketchy neighborhoods or industrial areas because auto traffic is highly cyclical. Coal cars that are in loose-car service, which is where many of the steel cars are now, cycle without regularity between industrial customers and small power plants, and the mines, and thus spend time on spurs and in yards where they are accessible to graffiti, and many of them are now defaced.
RWM
Thanks.
zardoz wrote: Deltic Dave wrote: Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.
Deltic Dave wrote: Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.
Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.
I was going to say bring back "billboard reefers", to get away from long strings of boxcar red (rust) colored cars which, in the eyes of the taggers, and others, needs a splash of color. But if they tag a special paint job like that, no advertiser is going to take a chance that their message will be destroyed the first trip out of the paint booth. Too bad, the railroads could have used it as another source of revenue.
"Wraps" are popular on city transit busses - they cover the whole thing (including the windows, but I think you can still see out).
The price would certainly have to be worth the product - there would have to be some assurance of exposure.
Having the taggers paint railcars might be interesting - set certain parameters and allow them to sign their work. The schemes need to be related to the railroad, not just whatever they want to do. Even with that, there are some interesting possibilities.
There are graffiti resistant paints - but I'm sure they come at a price. Depends on how the cost/benefit ratio breaks.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I have a love-hate relationship with the graffiti. I usually watch trains on the CSX main in the Mohawk Valley with my camera at the ready for a good display of color and art. Gosh, where are the good old days....the '70s of yellows, jade greens, bright reds where you could almost pick out the RR name by the color? Now about the only color is in the graffiti!
It is amazing how a big covered wagon can be painted over the whole 80' and right to the top too! These "artists" must bring ladders for these murals!
I have a couple of ideas on how to solve the problem:
When they paint the cars for the first time, invite known graffiti artists in to do a nice job with their talent. This could save some money on paint and these "signed" cars would put some color on the tracks right off the getgo!
Now this is my favorite! On the big 80' or longer car haulers the railroads should use these for traveling billboards! These would no longer be the boring long silver line of cars but a series of billboards advertising the latest autos, burgers, national products or most anything. The owners would collect a fee and these could be easily changed by a billboard company when the term is up. Note that you already see these colorful ads on many trucks across the country. Now if they could make these with a unsprayable plastic type coating...wow...a win-win for all of us!
Looking forward to more "organized color" on future trains!
Last year sitting in the depot park in Laramie, WY I saw an entire string of reefers that was hit. From the first to last car there was a mural running along the bottoms of the cars. There must have been a coordinated team with a lot of time to do that. Railcars provide a large canvas and everywhere they go is the gallery that they get displayed at.
That being said, I don't like it, but it is there. Graffiti has been around for centuries in one form or another. I watched a show on the History channel that reported there were messages on the walls of the Ft. Knox vaults. "Goldfinger was here" and things like that.
If you see something happening report it, at least you will know you tried to help.
gabe wrote: When I was a prosecutor, the public defender never did seem to understand why I was more than fine giving public intoxication or conventional marijuana offenders time-served pleas while simmultaneously insisting that graffiti artists do at least a month . . . . for everytime they used the word "victimless offense" to try to get a lower sentence, I would add a day to their sentence.GabeGabe
When I was a prosecutor, the public defender never did seem to understand why I was more than fine giving public intoxication or conventional marijuana offenders time-served pleas while simmultaneously insisting that graffiti artists do at least a month . . . . for everytime they used the word "victimless offense" to try to get a lower sentence, I would add a day to their sentence.
Gabe
This reminds me of a sting operation I saw on TV a while back. I have no idea what show it was, but I do know it was one of those real life TV shows, not a dramatization.
Basically the police put out an ad posing as a hollywood studio that needed to hire grafitti artists to do some work painting grafitti on set pieces for an upcoming movie. A bunch of people showed up, and each got a large area on which to "demonstrate" their work. The police then matched up their samples with actual graffiti around town and arrested those who showed a match. Kinda like matching up people's handwriting.
On another point, I do wonder how many artists (legitimate artists who paint for a living) would be interested in painting several rail cars if the railroad offered them the opportunity. Or even organize something with schools to have kids come down and paint up a car. At least then they'd have control over the content. I've seen stuff like this from time to time at various locations in the city.
Anything would be better than the BNSF "swoosh"...
WP 3020 wrote: ......It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
......It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
Just curious...does the book mention what, exactly, these "artists" hope to accomplish by people seeing their "work" in so many places? It's not like people are going to see a graffiti'd car and say, "Gee, that sure looks nice. Let's find out who did that so we can hire him to do our next advertising campaign". Perhaps they just want to be famous in the tagger world.
I will admit, however, that of the 10000000 or so freight cars I've seen in my many years, there were perhaps maybe a dozen that I thought were done by someone who truly could be an artist had they been given the opportunity to properly develop their talent in an environment more conducive to social acceptance.
MOPACnut wrote: Especially after what i remember seeing at Wal Mart a couple of years ago (Someone may have mentioned it allready). They were selling N scale boxcars and hoppers with graffiti from well known artists on them, complete with collectors cards. In the diecast car section of the toy dept (nice message to kids eh?).
Especially after what i remember seeing at Wal Mart a couple of years ago (Someone may have mentioned it allready). They were selling N scale boxcars and hoppers with graffiti from well known artists on them, complete with collectors cards. In the diecast car section of the toy dept (nice message to kids eh?).
Yes, I remember those. I recall noticing them while I was shopping for a present for my nephew's birthday. They were pulled from store shelves about a month after appearing on them. Lead paint, I believe was the cause.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
joegreen wrote: gabe wrote: Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?Gabe Id pay someone to do that to my car, cuz ive seen this hopper hes talkin about and the paint and can controll is crazy good.The same guys also did a care bear one. Its somewhere on this forum....
gabe wrote: Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?Gabe
Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?
Id pay someone to do that to my car, cuz ive seen this hopper hes talkin about and the paint and can controll is crazy good.
The same guys also did a care bear one. Its somewhere on this forum....
Maybe someone will do a mural of my favorite 80's cartoon, Wildfire (do a search on it if your curious about it) on a boxcar someday.
No doubt unless some EXTREMELY harsh punishment system is implemented and enforced the're will always be graffiti. (thae california one is good).
Mookie wrote: passengerfan wrote: Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars. Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there. Al - in - StocktonI know someone will (metaphorically) hit me with a board for this: I like this! This shows how you should involve the parent(s) in their childs activities - good or bad. Involve the parents to the point where it hurts and we will see less of this kind of behavior. Kudos to the person that implemented this!Moo!
passengerfan wrote: Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars. Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there. Al - in - Stockton
Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars.
Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there.
Al - in - Stockton
Moo!
Well Mook, it won't be me that hits you with the board!
I agree, somebody needs to be accountable, and that is a very good place to start.
For my $ .02 cents graffiti IS a crime that should be delt with!
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
These are my top three:
#1: Ardmore, Narberth or somewhere on Pennsy's "Main LIne" west of Philly in the mid-sixties. Someone(s) painted L-I-O-N-E-L in 3 or 4 foot high letters neatly stencilled between the girder bridge's ribs over a busy street. 24 hours a day PRR's Paoli Locals and GG1s zipped overhead and all below could readjust their perception of reality.
#2: Washington DC's Capital Beltway (I-495) outer loop, heading south after the Silver Spring exit, mid 70's, after dark. CSX/ex-B&O's Metropolitan Sub crossing on a girder bridge. "YES DOROTHY, THERE REALLY IS AN OZ". The backdrop was the Mormon cathedral highly illuminated and looking for all the world like a deco Magic Kingdom. More than average wit at work.
#3: Washington DC's New York Avenue NE ca. 2002. Thousands of vehicles daily pass under an abandoned industrial spur's 2-span girder bridge then and today. Sixty feet from the corridor's main going into Union Station and 2 blocks from work. Perfect! I decided the motorists needed something cheerful on this shabby approach to the Capital. Pink Flamingos!!! Planned it in 2001 but 9/11 and fear of arrest intervened. Pulled it off in late summer 2002.
Wearing a hard hat and a safety vest, I struggled through thick vines and thorns and installed pre-cut and drilled wood blocks using Liquid Nails on DAY ONE. They were neatly aligned every third rib, 12 to a side. The 24 flamingos had propellor wings and wire legs. On DAY TWO I installed the birds and man, I was nervous. All those vehicles below, 5th District police station 3 blocks away, and a 7 story motel almost overhanging the site. Traffic lights a block away in either direction regulated the traffic somewhat and I popped up and placed the birds in rhythm with the traffic's stop and go. When done I looked up to see a hotel guest watching me from on high. Wonder what he thought. With a spring in my step I walked back to work but stopped twice to admire the wings spinning in moderate breezes.
Next thing was to tell my cohorts at work, customers and friends. Called my folks in Reading PA. My Dad: "I always wanted to do something like that!". My Mom: "Richard! At your age!". People call me Rick and I was 56 at the time. Funny how the women in my life say "Richard" when they're upset at me.
High winds 2 weeks later started the flamingos' deterioration and now only a few wire "legs" survive. It was the grandest gesture in my life, and as an experience it is up there with the 40 guest, 600 pie "fight" friends and I staged in a townhouse we had gutted.
There are certain things in life you just gotta do once!!!
Rixflix
\
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
espeefoamer wrote:Just about the WORST grafitti job I ever saw was on an SP SD40T-2.The entire engine had been painted yellow,with the words "UNION PACIFIC" on the side.This looked quite proffesional,so must have taken quite a while to paint.Where was security?
I've seen that also. Not only on tunnel motors but other locos and roads like C&NW too. Some locos look really campy with only yellow patches on the cab sides with red numbers.
Tracking down those responsible for graffiti is difficult because most appliers of graffiti (AKA "writers")are irresponsible. It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
zugmann wrote: The reporting marks will get re-stenciled soon enough. Most of the "in the know" taggers don't cover up the data. Others actually re-stencil the data on the car...
The reporting marks will get re-stenciled soon enough. Most of the "in the know" taggers don't cover up the data. Others actually re-stencil the data on the car...
You are correct sir. If you paint over the numbers the railroad will surely come and stamp it in a short amount of time. That is why more and more artists are taping over the numbers while they paint and remove it after or just hand paint around it. Some even redo the numbers with stylish look to em.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
....No you probably can't stop it completely....and sadly, it shows a % of our population's character....Disregarding someone else's property.
Just last evening parked at one of my spots here in Muncie along side the NS's Frankfort line....A long train with many, many tanks in the consist.....and some had graffiti and more than a few had obliterated to a dergee over the Reporting Marks....
Quentin
zugmann wrote:Broken windows is easy as the windows don't move thousands of miles. I do not know if the theory can work in such a distance. Plus the cars aren't usually owned by the railroad, and I doubt First Union (or any other leaser or private company) would pay a bill for a railroad removing graffiti.
Yeah i agree with that. Thats probably the main reason why railroads are making no ground on graffiti. Maybe never will who knows.
Til the day we see cameras on everything in the yards and sidings in the middle of knowwhere i dont think graffiti will really be stopped. Just like the subway, it was never totally stopped. Some of the subway kings are still hittin those trains but most of it can be buffed in a day or 2. The new trend in graffiti seems to be dressin in a hard hat and safety vest like the employees. Its easier to get in a yard that way im assuming
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