KCSfan wrote:Al,A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?Mark
Al,
A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?
Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?
Mark
Great Northern and Milwakee Road, Spokane and Seattle (just a shot in the dark)
from prior post by passengerfan: "Mark the DZ time to the Springs was two hours faster than the Rocky Mountain Rocket. And the DZ equipment was brand new the last full service long distance train to enter service prior to Amtrak."
I have to assume long-distance precludes merely intercity, because Metroliner trainsets did not start running in revenue service until after the Penn Central merger (Feb. 1968).
KCSfan wrote: Al,A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?Mark
Now I have to ponder your question for awhile.
Al - in - Stockton
Okay Mark and Al I guess I will have to give it to you.
In 1956 the CB&Q inaugurated the new Denver Zephyr and four cars from each days consist were forwarded by the Royal Gorge to and from Colorado Springs from Denver. The timekeeping of the Royal Gorge was liesurely so even a 30 minute to 1 hour late DZ could easily be accommodated. The timekeeping of the DZ ranked up there with the finest trains it being rarely late. The Royal Gorge stopped each day in its namesake for ten minutes to permit the passengers to get off stretch and view the gorge itself. This is where the famous hanging bridge is located.
Today a tourist operator in Colorado is taking full advantage of the Royal Gorge by operating a tourist train daily in the summer months to the famous canyon.
Oh, just between Colo Spgs and Denver. If whatever it was the Royal Gorge did involved any one of the C&S, Santa Fe or MP I think it would have taken place between Pueblo and Denver. But at Colo Spgs you throw the Rock Island into the mix so I'm guessing the RI was the other road. The only thing I can think of is that Rocky Mtn Rocket equipment was deadheaded between Colo Spgs and Denver on the Royal Gorge but for what reason I can't imagine. The schedules of the two trains and the 4 hour layover of the Rocket between its arrival and departure at/from Colo Spgs would rule that out anyway. Beyond this my powers of deductive reasoning fail me and unless I come up with a brainstorm I'm stumped.
Mark did you read my previous hint. It involved another RR beginning in 1956. The Royal Gorge did something between Denver and Colorado Springs in both directions that involved another RR.
***, I misread the question. Thought it asked were the two routes joined which was at Dotsero as I stated not where the two trains were combined which I knew was at Grand Jct. I'm still pondering over what changed in 1956 and can only think it had something to do with the scenery of the Royal Gorge area itself. Did they possibly add an open air or some other kind of observation car to the consist?
Sorry Al still no cigar.
passengerfan wrote: Al You gat the Grand Junction part correct but the conversion from narrow gauge to standard gauge isn't even close. One thing transpired with both the east and west bound Royal Gorge in 1956 that will always be remembered by passenger train historians. (hint)It involved another railroads passenger train and happened on a daily basis until the Royal Gorge was discontinued.Al - in - Stockton
Al You gat the Grand Junction part correct but the conversion from narrow gauge to standard gauge isn't even close.
One thing transpired with both the east and west bound Royal Gorge in 1956 that will always be remembered by passenger train historians. (hint)It involved another railroads passenger train and happened on a daily basis until the Royal Gorge was discontinued.
Did it have to do with the train's running over a suspension bridge??
passengerfan wrote: Al You missed. Mark The Prospector was correct, the Royal Gorge was streamlined at the same time as the postwar Prospector using equipment meant for the C&O. You also got the part correct about the MP Colorado Eagle. You still need two parts of the puzzle. What major event transpired with the Royal Gorge in 1956 and in what city did the Prospector and Royal Gorge become one train on there western journey to Salt Lake City and eastbound from Salt Lake City they became two separate trains. The event that took place with the Royal Gorge in 1956 happened both eastbound and westbound.Al - in - Stockton WAG's, both of 'em, but here goes: 1) Place: Grand Junction, CO 2) Event: Conversion (or addition) of crucial D&RGW track from narrow gauge to standard. a.s.
Al You missed.
Mark The Prospector was correct, the Royal Gorge was streamlined at the same time as the postwar Prospector using equipment meant for the C&O. You also got the part correct about the MP Colorado Eagle. You still need two parts of the puzzle. What major event transpired with the Royal Gorge in 1956 and in what city did the Prospector and Royal Gorge become one train on there western journey to Salt Lake City and eastbound from Salt Lake City they became two separate trains. The event that took place with the Royal Gorge in 1956 happened both eastbound and westbound.
WAG's, both of 'em, but here goes:
1) Place: Grand Junction, CO
2) Event: Conversion (or addition) of crucial D&RGW track from narrow gauge to standard.
a.s.
I overlooked some parts of your question. I'm guessing that what made train "X" unique was that it became an RDC run in 1956. The D&RGW connected at Pueblo with the MoPac, Burlington (C&S) and Santa Fe. To the best of my knowledge there were only two name trains that ran to/thru Pueblo on these roads, the Colorado Eagle and the Texas Zephyr, so I'd guess one of these was the connection you ask about.
I'm going to throw out another train name that I have in the far reaches of my memory, IIRC it was the Yampa Valley Express or something like that. I'm not sure of its route and if it even was a Rio Grande Grande train but I'll throw the name out as possibly figuring in the answer to your question.
One would have been the Prospector which ran via the Moffat Tunnel Route. The other must have run via the Royal Gorge Route which was the Rio Grande's only other line between the two cities. The two lines joined at Dotsero for the rest of the way west to SLC. I thought the Royal Gorge was the only passenger train that ran via the line of the same name but to the best of my knowledge it was not stremlined so I'm stumped as to the second trains name.
passengerfan wrote: I should have mentioned that eastbound the two trains split at the same city with both proceeeding to Denver by different routes. One of these trains operated with domes the other did not. Al - in - Stockton
I should have mentioned that eastbound the two trains split at the same city with both proceeeding to Denver by different routes. One of these trains operated with domes the other did not.
I have to guess, being not allowed to research, but I'll give Salt Lake City, Utah the place where two routes diverged, they being Western Pacific and D&RGW, with both going EB to Denver, though the terminal city is probably somewhere else. If this question involves narrow-gauge (IF), I'd say D&RGW.
Sorry to take so long. JEOPARDY here is on TV from 3:30 - 4:00 p.m.! a.s.
Once again a question relating to my favorite subject Passenger Trains.
In the 1950's the Denver and Rio Grande Western inaugurated two streamliners between Denver and Salt Lake City. Both traveled via different routes for most of there journey and were combined in what city for the balance of there west bound trip? This is a multi part question. Name the two trains? And what made the one that traveled south from Denver unique beginning in 1956? What other train connected with this train in Pueblo? And what was the origin/destination of this name train?
passengerfan wrote: Raymond Loewy from France.Al - in - Stockton
Raymond Loewy from France.
Yes,indeed, it was Raymond Loewy from France (1896 - 1986).
OT, but did you know he designed the clock radio for Westinghouse in 1930?
Take it away, West Coast Al !
Raymond Loewy
germany or the U.K
I think it's Raymond Loewy, but I'm not sure about country of origin. I'm guessing Europe, and I would tend to believe western Europe. How about Germany?
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
jeffhergert wrote: If anyone else has a question, please feel free to take over. I can't think of one at the moment.Jeff
If anyone else has a question, please feel free to take over. I can't think of one at the moment.
Jeff
Here's an easy one. This designer designed the shell over the GG-1 that gave it a streamlined, Art Deco sort of look. After the first one was riveted together, he had future models of the G welded together, making it even more streamlined.
OK: In which country was this man born?, --
And what his is name, spelled correctly.
This is a two part question, no partial answers please.
jeffhergert wrote: Concerning the CNW/UP Cedar River bridge, IIRC, it wasn't too long after the derailment in 1979 when they single tracked the gantlet. It's only been double tracked for a few years now.As for the DRGW K-28 mikados the Army took to Alaska, I'd always heard they were all scrapped. None returned.Jeff
Concerning the CNW/UP Cedar River bridge, IIRC, it wasn't too long after the derailment in 1979 when they single tracked the gantlet. It's only been double tracked for a few years now.
As for the DRGW K-28 mikados the Army took to Alaska, I'd always heard they were all scrapped. None returned.
Since Jeff answered the last question he should be the one to ask the next one.
k4driver1361 wrote:you are right none of the K-28'S that went to alaska made it back...so sad
I have to admit I'm confused. Where does this leave us in terms of answering the specific question?
al
CShaveRR wrote: It was either single-track or a gantlet bridge--either way, CNW couldn't have put two tracks full of cars on it for any reason in 1993.UP almost immediately widened the piers after they merged with CNW, and later put in the second track.
It was either single-track or a gantlet bridge--either way, CNW couldn't have put two tracks full of cars on it for any reason in 1993.
UP almost immediately widened the piers after they merged with CNW, and later put in the second track.
It was a gantlet bridge, there is a picture of it on page 22 of the April 1986 Trains. The caption states the bridge was replaced since the 1979 photo, so wouldn't the current double track bridge have been put in place during the early 1980s?
passengerfan wrote: It never made sense to anyone why it was called Black River Junction as it was the Green River that ran by it. It was actually the Milwaukee Road that named it but have never found any information as to why it was named Black River Jct. The Green River is pretty muddy at that point so maybe Black River fits it.
It never made sense to anyone why it was called Black River Junction as it was the Green River that ran by it.
It was actually the Milwaukee Road that named it but have never found any information as to why it was named Black River Jct. The Green River is pretty muddy at that point so maybe Black River fits it.
Wouldn't the Pacific Coast Railroad have named the junction? It ran out to Black Diamond.
k4driver1361 wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: Just checking -- Were they standard gauge? nope they were narrow gauge, K-28's i think
al-in-chgo wrote: Just checking -- Were they standard gauge?
Just checking -- Were they standard gauge?
nope they were narrow gauge, K-28's i think
Nothing comes to my mind, but perhaps the above hint will help others. - a.s.
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