Ulrich wrote:Trucks are governed at 58 mph...and to answer Mr. Runyon's question, I take safety into account when quoting on business and when sourcing out to supplier vendors. You'd be surprised (I know I was when I looked at the data not long ago)...I rarely go for the lowest bid. I make more money overall by making a little bit on alot of loads then a lot on a few loads. Also, my customers are Fortune 500, and they don't put up with service failures...if I go cheap I risk losing the business...no second chances. So, the short anwser is I rarely go for the lowest bid.
someone made the comment about just calling a "true" taxi and splitting the bill.. it dont work like that.. the carriers DO NOT re-emburse us for for transportation costs when they are provideing a taxi for us.. and as zug said.. labor agreements dont alow us to do this even if a crew was stuiped enought to want to try it... we have to use company provided transporation.. aka contracted taxi service...that is just how it is... bottom line there....
so yes..it dose make a BIG differnce to someone that is outside the industury to say something about this situation..but unless YOU ARE A RAILROADER...and KNOW all the RULES REGULATIONS AND UNION COLLECTIVE BARGINGING AGREEMENTS IN PLACE... you will not understand where we are comeing from and why some of you are off base in your comments...
Things seem so simple when your on the outside looking in.. but belive me..they arent as simple as some people would like to make them seem... and this whole tread is a prime example how some people that are not in the industury think they know all the awnsers to all the questions without ever walking a moment in a railroaders shoes...
csx engineer
Never said I had all the answers...all I've said is this should be fixable... that you guys shouldn't have to put up with unsafe crew transport conditions year after year. We sent men to the moon almost 40 years ago...we put rovers on Mars over 30 years ago. We've unravelled the mysteries of DNA, and we've been able to CLONE other species. Those things are in the realm of the POSSIBLE. Surely then coming up with a safe method of train crew transport is also within the realm of the possible...I know I'm an outsider looking in...but am I wrong? Maybe look at other industries for help..there's no shame in that. The school boards all run relatively safe operations with minimum wage drivers...that's just one example.
Yeah, so we report a van. What will that get us? We will get crap for delaying a train. Or we will sit in a hotel for 40 hours because the TM will "forget" to arrange transportation home. Payback is a pain.
Yes, there are more wrecks than you will hear about. Just like there are more derailments than you will read about on internet forums.
As far as being short-tempered, I have been on both sides of the fence. I used to be a fan, now I am a rail. That is why I interject a little reality. I'm sure there are people on this forum that actually appreciate or enjoy a little inside view of how it "really works". You are also free to ignore comments from us. The track ain't just rule 251...
Poppa_Zit wrote:It sounded a little belligerent to me, too. Why is it necessary to work for a railroad to understand what's being discussed here? It's not that complicated. If a van driver is driving erratically and you feel you're in severe danger, use your cell phone and report him to the police. Isn't that one of your rights?Is this a widespread problem? I have never seen a multi-railroad worker passenger van wreck reported in the Chicago area, and there's a lot of railroads here.You RR guys shouldn't be short-tempered with the rest of us. If you don't like a question or opinion or are tired of hearing what you consider stupid stuff like this, just ignore the thread instead of dressing the guy down by telling him he is embarrassing himself.
It sounded a little belligerent to me, too. Why is it necessary to work for a railroad to understand what's being discussed here? It's not that complicated. If a van driver is driving erratically and you feel you're in severe danger, use your cell phone and report him to the police. Isn't that one of your rights?
Is this a widespread problem? I have never seen a multi-railroad worker passenger van wreck reported in the Chicago area, and there's a lot of railroads here.
You RR guys shouldn't be short-tempered with the rest of us. If you don't like a question or opinion or are tired of hearing what you consider stupid stuff like this, just ignore the thread instead of dressing the guy down by telling him he is embarrassing himself.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Are there any numbers to support this safety issue...i.e. number of injuries and deaths? Just curious..
I stated in my previous post that we used to have messenger checkers years ago. They were members of the clerks union that hauled crews. Anyway on this topic of underqualified drivers next time you see a van from an old folks home take a look at who is driving. Next time you see an ambulette or a wheelchair van look at the drivers. I wouldnt let the family dog go with these people more less a loved one. Also in Ohio some private ambulance drivers make 8 dollars or so. As others have stated it all boils down to who is the cheapest. I can tell you when i was working no officials rode in pool vans. They rode in company cars or passenger cars that have big rear windows. I was fortunate enough to see Hays T Watkins himself. What a treat.
sanvtoman wrote: ....Anyway on this topic of underqualified drivers next time you see a van from an old folks home take a look at who is driving. Next time you see an ambulette or a wheelchair van look at the drivers.
....Anyway on this topic of underqualified drivers next time you see a van from an old folks home take a look at who is driving. Next time you see an ambulette or a wheelchair van look at the drivers.
Also check out your local school bus drivers.....
So it sort of comes down to money because the RR is suposed to pay for the ride, not the crew members.But I'd say even though you;ve complained for years, as long as crews keep getting into those vans the RR won't do anythingto change this.plus what"s the gaurantee paying more for the service will get you better vans and drivers?
Chico
Find me a taxi that would come to some of the places we go to..... We have no choice but to get in those vans. If we don't, then we would be looking for new jobs real quick. And the old addage rings true - you get what you pay for! It takes money to buy new vans, maintain them, and hire drivers. Less money and something has to suffer.
Steam Is King wrote:So it sort of comes down to money because the RR is suposed to pay for the ride, not the crew members.But I'd say even though you;ve complained for years, as long as crews keep getting into those vans the RR won't do anythingto change this.plus what"s the gaurantee paying more for the service will get you better vans and drivers?Chico
Ulrich wrote:Well hopefully you guys get this resolved and get the safe transportation that you deserve.. for the rest of us...there may be a business opportunity here..
go ahead..get some vans and give it a shot.. maybe you can do better.. but my bets are you will find out that you will have the same divers that are just layed off from the company that lost the contract to you applying for the jobs....
Ulrich wrote:The school boards all run relatively safe operations with minimum wage drivers...that's just one example.
The school boards all run relatively safe operations with minimum wage drivers...that's just one example.
Ulrich wrote:No no not me CSX Engineer...I'm never the lowest bidder...I charge reasonable rates and get customers based on service. Some people get business on price...good luck to them. Price is always a factor of course, but it need not be the only one or even the main one.
Ulrich wrote:...I'm never the lowest bidder...
Never ever????
Good luck getting a wheel to turn. If you cannot outbid Armandillo or Ratzenburger, you will not make it.
Steam Is King wrote: So it sort of comes down to money because the RR is suposed to pay for the ride, not the crew members.But I'd say even though you;ve complained for years, as long as crews keep getting into those vans the RR won't do anythingto change this.plus what"s the gaurantee paying more for the service will get you better vans and drivers?Chico
If you die on hours of service, out in the middle of nowhere, who else can you get to find you, much less transport you home? What are you going to do, camp out by the tracks so you can go back on duty and catch the next train home? When will that be? Crews for the most part, have no choice in getting into that cab. They take what the carrier offers them.
Ulrich wrote:Not to my knowledge...usually the winning bidder isn't aware of the other bids. And don't be so sure your current van contractors are the cheapest either...If the railroads REALLY operated on the lowest price principal you guys would be working for 7 bucks an hour right along with those van drivers. There's a difference between lowest price and best value for the money... i.e. my price can be higher yet the overall package including service levels may yet be the best overall dollar value. For example a manufacturer who ships computers can hire a boxcar or he can pay more for a truck with an air ride suspension and door to door service. The boxcar is alot cheaper....but is it really cheaper once the freight claims start rolling in?
we are UNION.. the van drivers are NOT.. we have labor contracts that have gotten us a good wage.. the van drivers for the most part arnt union...
on the note of shippers and packaging... shock sensitive items such as electronics are packaged in a way by a manufactur to insure safe shipping regardless of what mode of transportation.. how do you think your computer came to you..or your TV or dvd player got here without being broken.. it was made in china..put onto a chines truck that more then likly has no suppention.. lifted off the ground and put into a ship with a crain that dosnt exactly drop it like a feather at times.. then put on a boat.. it made it all the way across the ocean on a ship in all kinds of weather and rough seas being sloshed back and forth..up and down in the container.. then offloaded by another crain onto a trailer chassie or train car.. shiped to god knows hwere ever ever type of road quilty and with some realy bad drivers and engineers... unloaded at a wharehouse by someone that tosses boxes around for a living.. then put on another truck..drivin by drivers on all types of road quiliys agin..then unloaded at min wage workers at walmart or best buy that toss the boxes around.. then bough buy you..taken home in your car..which isnt air ride equipted to your house.. yet when you take it out of the box..it works!!! speaks alot for PACKAGEING..NOT SHIPPING!!!!...
Poppa_Zit wrote: It sounded a little belligerent to me, too. Why is it necessary to work for a railroad to understand what's being discussed here? It's not that complicated. If a van driver is driving erratically and you feel you're in severe danger, use your cell phone and report him to the police. Isn't that one of your rights?Is this a widespread problem? I have never seen a multi-railroad worker passenger van wreck reported in the Chicago area, and there's a lot of railroads here.You RR guys shouldn't be short-tempered with the rest of us. If you don't like a question or opinion or are tired of hearing what you consider stupid stuff like this, just ignore the thread instead of dressing the guy down by telling him he is embarrassing himself.
The problem is wide spread. On the average of two accidents per year in Iowa alone which had bodily injury to the crews.
While a cell phone may work close to cities, a lot of Iowa/Minnesota has spotty at best coverage. When working the branch, we are far from any interstate, so there are areas of no coverage. And once the police arrive, and the driver is taken away, what happens to us? We sit by the road waiting for another van? While we have the right to turn down a van driver or van because of safety, that does us little good when the driver is on his fifth day in a row of working on his rest, and is nodding off on a two lane state road in the middle of Iowa.
zugmann wrote:There are numbers - but we don't have access to them. My statements are based on my experiences as well as those whom I work with. And no one is going to lie about almost being killed in a wreck...
Ulrich wrote:That's right AL...you would think that the rails who claim the sky is falling like Chicken Little on this SAFETY issue would at least have the numbers handy to support their onerous (and frankly dubious & overstated) claim. Hopefully when their reps sit down with their counterparts in management they'll have those numbers because without em they look like d*** FOOLS. DOH!!!!!
OK now...lets review these numbers again: Big Al and you have how many years combined in railroading?
Ulrich wrote:None in railroading...big deal. Lots of experience in transportation though...I'm doing well and living large with no union to prop up my pay either.
Now you're trolling Dude.....Nice try though.
I am sure it would not be hard to call Cleveland and get some hard numbers. But in the mean time, what purpose would it serve me to sit here and argue with you since you have no basis? My experience serves as credible enough.
When we sit down with the carrier we get: " they are a separate comany from us, we will talk with them, but they met the basics for safety standards and follow our rules". I doubt the Railway Labor Act had this kind of situation in mind, since we are not employed by them, we have no leverage in any negotiations.
RRKen wrote: When we sit down with the carrier we get: " they are a separate comany from us, we will talk with them, but they met the basics for safety standards and follow our rules".
When we sit down with the carrier we get: " they are a separate comany from us, we will talk with them, but they met the basics for safety standards and follow our rules".
Might I suggest that these (highlighted item above) be modified. If these drivers/vehicles actually DO meet those standards, then those standards are woefully inadequate.
Perhaps the unions could suggest that the railroad officials (such as those persons that decide the "standards") satisfy their own business transportation needs by riding in these accidents-waiting-to-happen; perhaps then there might be a revision of those standards.
However, since the unions are merely posers, empty shells of what they once were, I doubt anything will change until many injuries and deaths have occurred.
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