zugmann wrote: Us young guys? Simple. We are working the extra board or pool jobs. We have no clue when we will have time off. And at the rate we have been working - we sure as heck ain't giving up the rare evening off to go to a union meeting. We either want to sleep or spend time with our families. I went through my calendar the other week... there was only one day where I could have went to a union meeting. But I just got back from a really long day and wanted to go home, get something to eat and go to bed. Selfish? You bet. Of course I don't leave close to work or the union meetings - I am about an hour away. Most of the people that hire out near me just try to stay invisible. WE had a younger conductor who was the trainman's representative for the BLET. Really nice guy, worked for us - too bad he ran off to go join the dark side. So it is not going to end anytime soon. The old guys with the best jobs and those in the yard will continue to rule. The rest of us have just accepted it. We'll take the engine with torn seats... sure beats having to answer for a whole bunch of crap and gets us out of the yard faster. I'm sure it would be different if we had dedicated people like RRken or Zapp as our union reps... but here, forget it. We just gave up. There's only so much you can care about. PS>> I also think there is a generational shift in how we see ourselves. I don't see myself as a railroader. I just work for a railroad. I do not see a train from my employer as "my" or "our" train. I just see it as a train from my employer. I just want to do my work, go home and get my paystub. Forget the pride - I feel NONE.zug. zapp wrote:I couldn't agree more!!!I too, am a post '85er, and a union officer. I can't discribe how fustraiting it is to see 20-40% voting results. Alot of railroads won't get off their butts to save their butts! You can make things change, it's just not easy, nor is it going to happen overnight. It's alot of dedication, time and most of tenacity!Do not let the minority rule the majority, get involved! Don't you young guy's sit around the crew room bitching about nothing changing and not try to change it. I used to hate to sit in a crew room and listen to that crap, because when the time came to actually do something, or I needed something, everybody was way to busy.Do you know all of the agreements yuo work under, has your representative given you copies of the agreement books. You would be surprised, and so would these new managers, as to what these books hold. Example, Our books had an agreements specifying the what the seats had to look like on the lead unit, so when UP told us we had to take a train with some piece of crap Mexican unit with tore up seats on the lead we pulled out the agreement books and they let us switch it out. Management and most of the guy's around here didn't know that, they didn't read the agreements!I should add, don't abuse it either. It goes both ways!
Us young guys? Simple. We are working the extra board or pool jobs. We have no clue when we will have time off. And at the rate we have been working - we sure as heck ain't giving up the rare evening off to go to a union meeting. We either want to sleep or spend time with our families. I went through my calendar the other week... there was only one day where I could have went to a union meeting. But I just got back from a really long day and wanted to go home, get something to eat and go to bed. Selfish? You bet. Of course I don't leave close to work or the union meetings - I am about an hour away.
Most of the people that hire out near me just try to stay invisible. WE had a younger conductor who was the trainman's representative for the BLET. Really nice guy, worked for us - too bad he ran off to go join the dark side.
So it is not going to end anytime soon. The old guys with the best jobs and those in the yard will continue to rule. The rest of us have just accepted it. We'll take the engine with torn seats... sure beats having to answer for a whole bunch of crap and gets us out of the yard faster.
I'm sure it would be different if we had dedicated people like RRken or Zapp as our union reps... but here, forget it. We just gave up. There's only so much you can care about.
PS>> I also think there is a generational shift in how we see ourselves. I don't see myself as a railroader. I just work for a railroad. I do not see a train from my employer as "my" or "our" train. I just see it as a train from my employer. I just want to do my work, go home and get my paystub. Forget the pride - I feel NONE.
zug.
zapp wrote:I couldn't agree more!!!I too, am a post '85er, and a union officer. I can't discribe how fustraiting it is to see 20-40% voting results. Alot of railroads won't get off their butts to save their butts! You can make things change, it's just not easy, nor is it going to happen overnight. It's alot of dedication, time and most of tenacity!Do not let the minority rule the majority, get involved! Don't you young guy's sit around the crew room bitching about nothing changing and not try to change it. I used to hate to sit in a crew room and listen to that crap, because when the time came to actually do something, or I needed something, everybody was way to busy.Do you know all of the agreements yuo work under, has your representative given you copies of the agreement books. You would be surprised, and so would these new managers, as to what these books hold. Example, Our books had an agreements specifying the what the seats had to look like on the lead unit, so when UP told us we had to take a train with some piece of crap Mexican unit with tore up seats on the lead we pulled out the agreement books and they let us switch it out. Management and most of the guy's around here didn't know that, they didn't read the agreements!I should add, don't abuse it either. It goes both ways!
I couldn't agree more!!!
I too, am a post '85er, and a union officer. I can't discribe how fustraiting it is to see 20-40% voting results. Alot of railroads won't get off their butts to save their butts! You can make things change, it's just not easy, nor is it going to happen overnight. It's alot of dedication, time and most of tenacity!
Do not let the minority rule the majority, get involved! Don't you young guy's sit around the crew room bitching about nothing changing and not try to change it. I used to hate to sit in a crew room and listen to that crap, because when the time came to actually do something, or I needed something, everybody was way to busy.
Do you know all of the agreements yuo work under, has your representative given you copies of the agreement books. You would be surprised, and so would these new managers, as to what these books hold. Example, Our books had an agreements specifying the what the seats had to look like on the lead unit, so when UP told us we had to take a train with some piece of crap Mexican unit with tore up seats on the lead we pulled out the agreement books and they let us switch it out. Management and most of the guy's around here didn't know that, they didn't read the agreements!
I should add, don't abuse it either. It goes both ways!
Uh...WOW...
I guess we are just two totally differnet personalities.
If the carrier tries to walk all over me or one of my brothers, I DO take it personally and I'll fight it. I won't be "invisible" and neither should you! You have to know when to pick your fights, who your opponent is, and what he's bringing to the table. There are times a simple phone call can clear this up, other times we'll take it to an investigation.
I can't describe the feeling when you win an investigation for one of your brothers, maybe extremely fulfilling.
I too, worked the extra board most of the time. We were making between 3500-4300 a half so we didn't have alot of time screwing around either. You get off, drive home, eat a bowl of cereal (doesn't matter what itme of day it was) go to bed and get woken by a phone call to come back. So we suggested having a website that the local set up posting the latest news that effected our region. It really helped. Evenb though you don't have alot of time at home, the carrier has no problem leaving you at your AFHT for ever. So we would go online there and catch up, while we waited for the call to come home.
I guess I just have a different vision of what is happening in our future. I see the RRs becoming non-union. The intermodal yards already are. We have conductors running switchers. The lines are already blurred. I even hear talk about "utility engineers". It just isn't worth the hassle. If I don't leave it at the yard office... I turn into another person, as RRKen can attest. I can't imagine dealing with union business in my off-time... I need zugmann time.
They say the average person changes career 7 times or more in their lifetimes... that means I still have at least 6 to go.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
As a nonrailroader, let me ask you this:
What one thing would you change about you job, if you could?
ed
Having more time off when you know you will be off. Sure we can go 20 hours between calls - but if you're 2nd out, you can't really do anything in those hours. As it stands now, we have to have 7 consecutive starts in 7 conecutive days to get 24 hours undisturbed rest.
For example: Go to work 11pm monday for a quick short turn (take a train somewehre and get driven home). You get home at 9am Tuesday. But you don't get called again until 1am Wednesday. Unfortunately you didn't get a start on Tuesday - so you have to start the 7 starts in 7 days cycle OVER to get another shot at a rest day!
I took a job with regular rest days this week - but got bumped after one trip. That is why I actually had some time this week to play with this forum.
They have Rule G, but being tired is jsut as bad as bing drunk. Yet they seem to want us to be tired. It will take something big to change it - I just hope it doesn't happen near me!
MP173 wrote:As a nonrailroader, let me ask you this: What one thing would you change about you job, if you could?ed
csx engineer
zugmann wrote: I guess I just have a different vision of what is happening in our future. I see the RRs becoming non-union. The intermodal yards already are. We have conductors running switchers. The lines are already blurred. I even hear talk about "utility engineers". It just isn't worth the hassle. If I don't leave it at the yard office... I turn into another person, as RRKen can attest. I can't imagine dealing with union business in my off-time... I need zugmann time.They say the average person changes career 7 times or more in their lifetimes... that means I still have at least 6 to go.
It is guys like us old timers that give you the bennifits yo are about to see comming down the pike. In other words if you think you can start at the top after someone who has been out here for 25years for get it. These men put in time in worse conditions than you will ever dream of. whine as you may it wont change, but to save you we in the blet are taking advantage and making sure there is a job for you, always a engineer on thru frieght any job that is not remote controll now will have a engineer on it and those men are protected and those jobs will be protected. ( engineer utility) But if you quit being selfish and go to meetings you find these things out, instead of hearing it thru the rumor mills, ( just like finding out what sex is as a teen) there is guys that wont give up 1 hrs of the life they have at home to make years of improvements of the life they could have. If you dont go to the meetings and get involved you do not have any rights to complain. Its like voting in the elections those that dont vote have no right to complain about the out comes.
Unfortunately you speak as if everything is set in stone. It is not. There will be one-man crews. After how many remote crashes - I see no proposals of shelving the technology.
Te carriers will have it their way. If you think I'm going to add extra stress to my life trying to change the inevitable, you are mistaken. (life just ain't worth the ulcer) And this country isn't exactly faring on the side of labor either. I wish it wasn't that way... but you can only fight the current so long.
I'm also against how unions (any of them) blindly protect the incompetent. There are some people that should not be allowed near a RR, period. Jsut like there are people that shouldn't be teachers, shouldn't be cops, etc... yet the union has to, by its nature, stand up for these people. How allowing an unsafe person to continue to operate helps my safety is beyond me...
Now I'm getting off topic. Have a nice day.
Something I recently learned is that the first contract taxi service to begin on the former SF was @ Belen, NM in 1981. Could this have been the first of any rr? Interesting thought.
zugmann wrote: I'm also against how unions (any of them) blindly protect the incompetent. There are some people that should not be allowed near a RR, period. Jsut like there are people that shouldn't be teachers, shouldn't be cops, etc... yet the union has to, by its nature, stand up for these people. How allowing an unsafe person to continue to operate helps my safety is beyond me... Now I'm getting off topic. Have a nice day.
Unions do not 'blindly protect the incompetent', however they do their best to insure that the Carriers follow the contract rules concerning discipline when actions of an incompetent are brought to a disciplinary investigation. The Carriers agreed to certain rules and procedures when they signed the contracts with the Union. It is the Union's responsibility to see and insure that those rules and procedures are complied with. The Carriers, if they could get away with it would be the Kangaroo Court and Hanging Judge all rolled into one. Guilty because of the way you blink your eyes....NEXT!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
This thread brings back memories..
I'm not talking about kangaroo courts. I am speaking of people out here working that are a danger to all others around them. I have no real issue witht he unions protecting people... but when you get to a type of person that is in the wrong profession - that is where we will split paths. Same with any other job. Our education system would be much better if we could get rid of teachers that have no intention of teaching. But once they get tenure, lotsa luck. Same here. I'm sorry, but I value my life too much to want some dangerous guy out here.
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