it seems that the cn keeps tearing up rail as bad as the cnw,sooage line,and other railroads did. The wc brought back customer service back, running trains down rail lines that these other railroads gave up on and the wc made money. the cn comes along and now were back where we started, tearing up rail lines giving up on the little guys. these mergers should not be allowed if the merger doesnt bring more costumers, or service is lack. As far as i know the wc wouldnt give up on a rail line and have the wisconsin southern opreate the line. I hope no class 1's come along and buy up the wis. southern otherwise more track is lost and were back to not caring about the customer! What a shame! the cn should have left well enough alone!!!
I don't think CN is all that bad. WC was a great railroad from a railfan's perspective. They ran SD45's a plenty, considered to be a shoddy loco by other railroads. WC took over the line from the Soo, who were more than happy to get rid of it. After their acquisition of the Milwaukee, their home rails quickly became a second hand mainline. WC bought it, cleaned it up, and with a little more emphasis on customer service was rewarded mightily for their investment. WC was a great railroad. A huge part of that was Ed Burkhardt. When WC's board ran him off, they really shot themselves in the foot because Burkhardt was largely responsible for the company's success. Business began to suffer, in the late 90's and early 00's.
When CN bought out WC, a number of things have changed since then. The number of trains on the line have increased, along with speed. CN is currently laying new welded rail on a big part of the line here, including new signaling systems. A large number of crossings that were dangerous have been upgraded to crossing gates. The former WC lines are now busier then the old Milwaukee Road line, even though the Milwaukee line was thought to be superior. CN is running a tight ship down here. (It sounds like that isn't the case in Canada, but others may be able to add info there)
WC was also guilty of pulling up rails too. In Kewaskum, where I grew up, the CNW Air Line to Manitowoc was pulled up between West Bend and Eden, along with various other segments to the north. It was sad to see it go, because in the early 80's that line was packed with trains. But, in the spirit of acquisition, WC bought out that line in the early 90's. They were unable to attract enough business to justify keeping it open as a through route and in 2000 the rails were pulled. This line used to see CNW passenger trains rolling at 80MPH plus! I do not fault WC, because they did this as business decision. IF the WC was not able to make the line viable, then I doubt any other railroad would suceed either.
I think that in Oshkosh the CN has pulled up loads of track. There was a siding that started just north of New York Avenue and ran to just south of the Harrison Crossing. The ironic part? I was chatting with a friendly crew who said that that track was hardly used and regarded as excess at first. Upon removing it the DS now had trouble getting trains routed through the area in a timely fashion at times. Seems he forgot that he used the siding. A couple of days later I saw some MOW guys clearing out brush that had grown on the north end of where the siding used to be: CN was considering relaying the track!
I've seen them also stop servicing customers in the Oshkosh area that were almost daily generating or receiving multiple carloads. I think they stopped servicing Oshkosh Truck's north plant and Noffke Lumber. I also saw MOW guys ripping switches out on a stub that crosses HWY 76 in Oshkosh. Three industries on that spur no longer have rail service.
I wonder why as I have yet to see truck service there and the businesses aren't closing.
Dan
Following that line of thought tho...what would compel one RR to sell a line to another? I don't know what that would be. What would/could 'force' the CN to sell part of its line or trackage rights to another RR? In this hypothetical say the WSOR thought it could service industries on the north side of Oshkosh. It would have to get trackage rights on the CN probably from south of FDL and then come north or is that too implausible?
As Andy wrote, the WC was definitely guilty of some of the same things as the CN is. Their aqusition of the GBW is one example. From what I've been told they had promised not to raise rates in areas that had been formerly served by two railroads, and claimed that nothing would change. Not too long after the purchase though, the WC began tearing out track to the point where it would be hard to put the GBW back together again, and then rates for the paper mills and other customers went through the roof. It was a good money making move, but no different than some of the things the CN does.
Noah
I would also like to add a line WC abounded. The Ex CNW line from Shawano-Wausau. I think WC abounded it because they already had a line to Wausau (The Valley Sub) and there really wasn't much business there. The only towns to in between Wausau and Shawano are Hatly, and Wittenberg. CNW/UP only had that line to get to Wausau. WC still kept the tracks going to Kelly because the Village of Weston wanted them out there, if they would ever build an industrial park out there. If Weston didn't want them there WC would have probably ripped them up. CN has also kept the tracks there for the same reason. Now the line is only used for storage.
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Murphy Siding wrote: Playing the devil's advocate here, I guess: If WC was such a super deal, why is there no WC anymore?
Never say that. WC is still around, maybe not equpiment wise, but still around.
Equpiment wise, all of the SW1500s are around, all the SD40-2s, most of the GP40s, and All of the GP38-2s are still around. But like one of my friends here said, "The SD45 was the icon of the WC. WC isn't gone, but equpiment wise it is."
gacuster wrote:They started stumbling when they invested in railroads overseas, then Ed Burkhardt got booted out and the remaining management seemed more interested in getting bought out (at a profit) than running a regional railroad.
Didn't Ed Burkhardt try to buy back the WC after he got kicked out? But he couldn't get enough investors to get it? Just want to get my "facts" straight.
Someone apparently has these concepts in mind:
"Railroads are supposed to be highly structured, but without excess."
"If you do not need it in the next month, throw it away immediately and do not think about it again."
"Cut out everything and new business will appear once you have cut back all the excess."
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
WCfan-
You're way off on this one- the CNW abandoned the Duck Creek- Wausau line in 1993 (Shawano was about 1/3 of the way west from Duck Creek where the line started)- the CNW retained a switching island until takeover by the UP in 1995. The UP sold the Wausau island, the Hayward-Trego branch and the Upper Michigan lines to WC shortly after the CNW takeover in 1996. The UP wasn't too interested in keeping these "islands"- which by and large were a CNW creation during their line rationalizations in the late 80s and early 90s. Other examples of CNW islands were the Colony-Crawford line out west and the Waterloo-Oelwein spur.
The former Soo ROW through Oshkosh was abandoned by WC for good reasons. For instance, the roadbed was physically part of the front yards of many homes. As a railfan and modeler, it was fascinating; for everyone else, a nightmare.
I think it's unfortunate that CN ended TOFC/COFC from Green Bay when it took over. Many more trucks on 41 and 43.
There's some talk about the need to locate an intermodal transfer point in Wisconsin as CN develops its Prince Rupert - Chicago service. I hope it happens.
nordique72 wrote: I would also like to add a line WC abounded. The Ex CNW line from Shawano-Wausau. I think WC abounded it because they already had a line to Wausau (The Valley Sub) and there really wasn't much business there. The only towns to in between Wausau and Shawano are Hatly, and Wittenberg. CNW/UP only had that line to get to Wausau. WC still kept the tracks going to Kelly because the Village of Weston wanted them out there, if they would ever build an industrial park out there. If Weston didn't want them there WC would have probably ripped them up. CN has also kept the tracks there for the same reason. Now the line is only used for storage.WCfan- You're way off on this one- the CNW abandoned the Duck Creek- Wausau line in 1993 (Shawano was about 1/3 of the way west from Duck Creek where the line started)- the CNW retained a switching island until takeover by the UP in 1995. The UP sold the Wausau island, the Hayward-Trego branch and the Upper Michigan lines to WC shortly after the CNW takeover in 1996. The UP wasn't too interested in keeping these "islands"- which by and large were a CNW creation during their line rationalizations in the late 80s and early 90s. Other examples of CNW islands were the Colony-Crawford line out west and the Waterloo-Oelwein spur.
I guess you learn somthing every day. Thanks! I was always told that CNW had that line untill WC came. They they riped it up. Thanks again.
jclass wrote: The former Soo ROW through Oshkosh was abandoned by WC for good reasons. For instance, the roadbed was physically part of the front yards of many homes. As a railfan and modeler, it was fascinating; for everyone else, a nightmare.
I remember that ROW. It would shut the downtown area down completely. I talked to one SOO crew once and they said that they hated running there because they knew how much trouble it caused.
WCfan wrote: Murphy Siding wrote: Playing the devil's advocate here, I guess: If WC was such a super deal, why is there no WC anymore? Never say that. WC is still around, maybe not equpiment wise, but still around. Equpiment wise, all of the SW1500s are around, all the SD40-2s, most of the GP40s, and All of the GP38-2s are still around. But like one of my friends here said, "The SD45 was the icon of the WC. WC isn't gone, but equpiment wise it is."
i can correct one of andy's staements on wc abandonments
when wc purchased GBW & FRV they only abandoned the old gbw from scandinavia to plover not at new london due to no customers a short spur is located at amherst jct for the FS mill. but eventually they abandoned the line from scandinavia to manawa. & soon when wc wanted to re open the new london sub from appleton to new london the black creek sub was abandoned from new london to green bay. & the new london sub would be the old cnw route & the old black creek from the junction to manawa.
also i do believe the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc between eden & west bend west bend to milwaukee still exist & the line to eden does.
Exactly Gacuster. Once Burkhardt was gone, they decided to open the door for merger talks. Almost the evil time of the WC if I may, as they were running the outfit purely to sell it. Why do you think the last few years of the WC werent near as good (but they were still satisfactory) as in years past? They didnt care about it anymore, and were too anxious to make a buck. Sadly, that seems to be the only reason of having a solid company anymore, sell it when it reaches its peak...
Alec
Imisswc,
Do you remember a Josh Nason or Matt Sumner? If you worked around Neenah, you may have ran into them.
B.Erdmann wrote: also i do believe the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc between eden & west bend west bend to milwaukee still exist & the line to eden does.
Why would the railroad go through all the bother (and expense) of tearing out such a short section of rail? The old CNW line could have been used as an alternative in the event of disaster on their regular line.
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