why didn't the cn stick to customer service like the wc did?

[Andrew Falconer]

The CN management has to have daily or weekly deliveries to an industrial customer to keep serving them.

[Use to live by Airline]

I just joined this site. Funny there's a 8 year gap between my post and the last. Hope these new posts will revive it. I use to envy how fast the Soo use to run through Slinger, I watched them when I went to the Washington County Fair at Slinger before the move it to it's present location south of West Bend.

[CatFoodFlambe]

Would it be accurate to say that WC lived and died by the traffic they originated, hence the attention to customer service;   while it is more or less a means for CN to cross the area, picking off only the traffic that's profitable under their business model?

 

[MarknLisa]

jclass

The former Soo ROW through Oshkosh was abandoned by WC for good reasons.  For instance, the roadbed was physically part of the front yards of many homes.  As a railfan and modeler, it was fascinating; for everyone else, a nightmare.

I think it's unfortunate that CN ended TOFC/COFC from Green Bay when it took over.  Many more trucks on 41 and 43.

There's some talk about the need to locate an intermodal transfer point in Wisconsin as CN develops its Prince Rupert - Chicago service.  I hope it happens.

 

There is an intermodal ramp in Chippy Falls, though it is quite small.

[Use to live by Airline]

solzrures I'm sure was made awhere of this, so pardon me if I'm late on this comment: The Airline ran from the Wiscona interlocking tower to North Fond du Lac. The only way to Manitowoc from Fond du Lac would either go north to Green Bay and take a train on the Lake Shore route south or go south to Milwaukee and take a train and take north, via Lake Shore Route. If you live in Fond du Lac before I believe it was 1926, the Marshfield to Fond du lac train service extended to include Sheboygan. From Sheboygan north to Manitowoc on Lake Shore Route

[Anonymous]

I just returned from a trip to Cedar Rapids and the CN has done some pretty good work on the Cedar Valley Railroad around Plainfield, IA.  I haven't kept regular tabs on that route, but from the times I have seen it in the past, the Cedar Valley RR ROW has never looked as well maintained as it did today.  Lots of fresh ballast, recent tie replacements, looks like they're keeping the brush cut back real well.  The IC kept that line in fair condition as did the CC but it sure looks like the CN has invested in MOW.

[Imisswc]

I remember matt sumner i believe he was in my class.  I cant remember all the names anymore but i talked to 1 that was in my class but i havent run into anyone else. Would be nice to though just to see how there doing!

[ShopsYardMaster]

Sorry, solzrules, I don't get down that way too much anymore. Maybe some of the Milwaukee railfans can help you out.

[solzrules]

also i do believe
the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc
between eden & west bend  west bend to milwaukee still exist
& the line to eden does.

Why would the
railroad go through all the bother (and expense) of tearing out such a
short section of rail?  The old CNW line could have been used as
an alternative in the event of disaster on their regular line.

 

Very
simple. Little on-line business. Other than the quarry at Marblehead,
and the feed mill and canning factory at Eden, not much else between
Eden and West Bend.(about 30+ miles) CN still serves Eden and
Marblehead from Fond du Lac, about 3 times a week.

 The
Airline(as the subdivision was known in CNW days) was mainly a high
speed passenger line from Milwaukee to the Fox Valley. Most of the
freight went down the Clyman Junction line until about '86 when it was
abandoned between FDL and Clyman Junction. Then the Airline picked up
what little freight there was between the Fox Valley and Milwaukee.
Then CNW sold it to the Fox River Valley RR., which was sold to
Wisconsin Central in about 1990. The WC only kept the Airline until
double-tracking of Byron Hill was completed, then it was abandoned.

The section between Eden and West Bend has been turned into a hiking/biking trail called the Eisenbahn trail. HTH 

You seem to know quite a bit about that line...just by knowing about that quarry.  Do you have any idea how the railroad is doing with their transloading terminal just south of West Bend?  It seems that traffic is pretty regular in and out of there.  Given the railroad sunk a little money into developing that AFTER that line was pretty much abandoned north of West Bend they must see some future for it.  Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

[ShopsYardMaster]

also i do believe
the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc
between eden & west bend  west bend to milwaukee still exist
& the line to eden does.

Why would the
railroad go through all the bother (and expense) of tearing out such a
short section of rail?  The old CNW line could have been used as
an alternative in the event of disaster on their regular line.

 

Very
simple. Little on-line business. Other than the quarry at Marblehead,
and the feed mill and canning factory at Eden, not much else between
Eden and West Bend.(about 30+ miles) CN still serves Eden and
Marblehead from Fond du Lac, about 3 times a week.

 The
Airline(as the subdivision was known in CNW days) was mainly a high
speed passenger line from Milwaukee to the Fox Valley. Most of the
freight went down the Clyman Junction line until about '86 when it was
abandoned between FDL and Clyman Junction. Then the Airline picked up
what little freight there was between the Fox Valley and Milwaukee.
Then CNW sold it to the Fox River Valley RR., which was sold to
Wisconsin Central in about 1990. The WC only kept the Airline until
double-tracking of Byron Hill was completed, then it was abandoned.

The section between Eden and West Bend has been turned into a hiking/biking trail called the Eisenbahn trail. HTH 

[jclass]

Maybe mudchicken could help you with that question.

[Anonymous]

also i do believe the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc between eden & west bend  west bend to milwaukee still exist & the line to eden does.

Why would the railroad go through all the bother (and expense) of tearing out such a short section of rail?  The old CNW line could have been used as an alternative in the event of disaster on their regular line.

[wctransfer]

Imisswc,

Do you remember a Josh Nason or Matt Sumner? If you worked around Neenah, you may have ran into them.

Alec

[wctransfer]

Exactly Gacuster. Once Burkhardt was gone, they decided to open the door for merger talks. Almost the evil time of the WC if I may, as they were running the outfit purely to sell it. Why do you think the last few years of the WC werent near as good (but they were still satisfactory) as in years past? They didnt care about it anymore, and were too anxious to make a buck. Sadly, that seems to be the only reason of having a solid company anymore, sell it when it reaches its peak...

Alec

[Imisswc]

I would like to thank everyone for their informitive feed back i know if i have any railroad questions their is a lot of informed people to get answers from!! "dont let it fail ship it by rail!!"

[Imisswc]

I still see alot of wc box cars glad to see another wc fan!!!I had the privlege of working for the wc back in 1998 was hired on as a conductor trainee.  I got the job because of the cn runthrough trains the got from the bnsf.  So i dont hate the cn but i still miss the wc attitude of "if there is a customer there we will service them". some mergers are good some not from our stand point as fans that is.  long live the WC!!!!  thanks for the feed back

[Imisswc]

ya i always wondered why they ended tofc servive from greenbay and neenah? That was something that suprised me i thought those were going well considering schnider national was shipping through them as others were.  They worked with trucking companies(the enemy) together when other railroads wouldnt even think of it, that attitude is what makes companys grow especally railroads that are in feirce competition for customers from trucking and other forms of transportation.  That attitude is why they grew also with other factors working with them i understand that.  But it sure was nice to see a come back for old lines and a "not give up as long as there was a customer there" attitude.  thanks for the feed back! 

[B.Erdmann]

 i can correct one of andy's staements on wc abandonments

when wc purchased GBW & FRV they only abandoned the old gbw from scandinavia to plover not at new london due to no customers a short spur is located at amherst jct for the FS mill. but eventually  they abandoned the line from scandinavia to manawa. & soon when wc wanted to re open the new london sub from appleton to new london the black creek sub was abandoned from new london to green bay. & the new london sub would be the old cnw route & the old black creek from the junction to manawa.

also i do believe the old cnw route from fondy to milwaukee portions were takin out by wc between eden & west bend  west bend to milwaukee still exist & the line to eden does.

[WCfan]

Yeah, basicaly they had growing pains. They should of stayed here and tryed to get some other short lines.  

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The sale of Wisconsin Central to Canadian National was a deal that was pretty much driven by the shareholders.  While I agree with the previous postings that Ed Burkhardt was doing a pretty good job of running WC, it would appear that he got into an empire-building mode with the various overseas operations (Estonia, UK, Australia and New Zealand).  At any rate, the stock price was not appreciating enough to suit the shareholders and Burkhardt was sent packing and the company was sold to CN.

[Murphy Siding]

     Playing the devil's advocate here, I guess:  If WC was such a super deal, why is there no WC anymore?

Never say that. WC is still around, maybe not equpiment wise, but still around.

Equpiment wise, all of the SW1500s are around, all the SD40-2s, most of the GP40s, and All of the GP38-2s are still around. But like one of my friends here said, "The SD45 was the icon of the WC. WC isn't gone, but equpiment wise it is."

  Forgive me, if you thought I was singling you out on that, it was directed at everybody.  I was thinking that, perhaps times had changed.  What was working for WC in the past, was seen as not going to be working in the future.  When that happens in a company, something has to change.  In this case, it seems, it was a change of ownership, and a change in how the business in managed.

[CNW 6000]

The former Soo ROW through Oshkosh was abandoned by WC for good reasons.  For instance, the roadbed was physically part of the front yards of many homes.  As a railfan and modeler, it was fascinating; for everyone else, a nightmare.

I remember that ROW.  It would shut the downtown area down completely.  I talked to one SOO crew once and they said that they hated running there because they knew how much trouble it caused.

[WCfan]

I would also like to add a line WC abounded. The Ex CNW line from Shawano-Wausau. I think WC abounded it because they already had a line to Wausau (The Valley Sub) and there really wasn't much business there. The only towns to in between Wausau and Shawano are Hatly, and Wittenberg. CNW/UP only had that line to get to Wausau. WC still kept the tracks going to Kelly because the Village of Weston wanted them out there, if they would ever build an industrial park out there. If Weston didn't want them there WC would have probably ripped them up. CN has also kept the tracks there for the same reason. Now the line is only used for storage.

WCfan-

 You're way off on this one- the CNW abandoned the Duck Creek- Wausau line in 1993 (Shawano was about 1/3 of the way west from Duck Creek where the line started)- the CNW retained a switching island until takeover by the UP in 1995. The UP sold the Wausau island, the Hayward-Trego branch and the Upper Michigan lines to WC shortly after the CNW takeover in 1996. The UP wasn't too interested in keeping these "islands"- which by and large were a CNW creation during their line rationalizations in the late 80s and early 90s. Other examples of CNW islands were the Colony-Crawford line out west and the Waterloo-Oelwein spur.

I guess you learn somthing every day. Thanks! I was always told that CNW had that line untill WC came. They they riped it up. Thanks again.

[jclass]

The former Soo ROW through Oshkosh was abandoned by WC for good reasons.  For instance, the roadbed was physically part of the front yards of many homes.  As a railfan and modeler, it was fascinating; for everyone else, a nightmare.

I think it's unfortunate that CN ended TOFC/COFC from Green Bay when it took over.  Many more trucks on 41 and 43.

There's some talk about the need to locate an intermodal transfer point in Wisconsin as CN develops its Prince Rupert - Chicago service.  I hope it happens.

 

[nordique72]

I would also like to add a line WC abounded. The Ex CNW line from Shawano-Wausau. I think WC abounded it because they already had a line to Wausau (The Valley Sub) and there really wasn't much business there. The only towns to in between Wausau and Shawano are Hatly, and Wittenberg. CNW/UP only had that line to get to Wausau. WC still kept the tracks going to Kelly because the Village of Weston wanted them out there, if they would ever build an industrial park out there. If Weston didn't want them there WC would have probably ripped them up. CN has also kept the tracks there for the same reason. Now the line is only used for storage.

WCfan-

 You're way off on this one- the CNW abandoned the Duck Creek- Wausau line in 1993 (Shawano was about 1/3 of the way west from Duck Creek where the line started)- the CNW retained a switching island until takeover by the UP in 1995. The UP sold the Wausau island, the Hayward-Trego branch and the Upper Michigan lines to WC shortly after the CNW takeover in 1996. The UP wasn't too interested in keeping these "islands"- which by and large were a CNW creation during their line rationalizations in the late 80s and early 90s. Other examples of CNW islands were the Colony-Crawford line out west and the Waterloo-Oelwein spur.

[Andrew Falconer]

Someone apparently has these concepts in mind:

"Railroads are supposed to be highly structured, but without excess."

"If you do not need it in the next month, throw it away immediately and do not think about it again."

"Cut out everything and new business will appear once you have cut back all the excess."

Andrew

[gacuster]

I used to own WC stock and I recall Burkhardt starting a proxy fight to regain control of the co.  Both sides sent all kinds of info that only a Philadelphia lawyer would understand.  Burkhardt lost and WC was sold to CN not long afterwards.

[WCfan]

They started stumbling when they invested in railroads overseas, then Ed Burkhardt got booted out and the remaining management seemed more interested in getting bought out (at a profit) than running a regional railroad.

Didn't Ed Burkhardt try to buy back the WC after he got kicked out? But he couldn't get enough investors to get it? Just want to get my "facts" straight.

[gacuster]

They started stumbling when they invested in railroads overseas, then Ed Burkhardt got booted out and the remaining management seemed more interested in getting bought out (at a profit) than running a regional railroad.