Let's Send a Message to the Metra Police!

[Poppa_Zit]

I have held my tongue long enough in this issue. 

If you are going to act like children, or better yet babies about the whole thing they why not just get in your little corner and cry about it.  It is people like you that give railfans a bad name.  No wonder why us railroaders dont like foamers.  Let me catch you closer than 50 feet from any track and I will be sure to call in the so called rent a cops for you.  You think you are so much better than they are.  Why dont you come out and work with them for just one day.  See how much BS they go through.  I though we were all adults here, but I guess some are just posing as adults.  I have know some railfans that did good for the railroads, but you are one of the reasons why railfans have a bad name.  POPPA_ZIT you are absolutly correct in my opion.  Gribble I am ashed to say that I live in the same city, or area as you.  This is supost to be a place to share ideas, or pictures, or even have a friendly conversation with the rest of the world about trains.  But the person that started this whole thread, basically created a MOB as he wanted. 

Railroadjj -- thank you for the kind words. Obviously, you understood my point.

It is obvious by this guy's response he cannot read for meaning and would rather put words in other peoples' mouths and then argue with those words. He cites one story -- one story -- in Canada where the writer apparently mistook the woman photographer's activity or was given incorrect information by the authorities and he's indicting the entire media industry.  

Trying to engage him in an intelligent discussion is out of the question. Who needs to deal with that?

PZ 

[EJE818]

Main Street is one of the busiest spots on the racetrack, so it really doesn't surprize me that they were being very strict there. Did anyone go to a station on the racetrack (other then Main Street) and notice any police presence. I would think they would be at most of the stations. Here in Joliet, they also have searched people's bags in the past. I was in Brookfield today and there was no police presence at all. I wasn't apporached either as I stayed off the actual platform and on the sidewalks.

[rrnut282]

 I think its time for everyone to take a pill.  (Anybody want one of mine?)

[Newyorkcentralfan]

Why the hell not? We employ them and we ought to get to decide the requirements of that employment. 

There ought to be three strikes and you're out law for them. If a cop is found to have violated the law while on duty then they need to find a new job.  

That crack about about respect being "earned" is nonsense.  Must all officers first pass a personality test and be vetted for us all before being taken seriously?  

[CNW 6000]

By that reckoning then most of the government would be out of work!

[Anonymous]

If you are going to act like children, or better yet babies about the whole thing they why not just get in your little corner and cry about it.  It is people like you that give railfans a bad name.  No wonder why us railroaders dont like foamers.  Let me catch you closer than 50 feet from any track and I will be sure to call in the so called rent a cops for you.  You think you are so much better than they are.  Why dont you come out and work with them for just one day.  See how much BS they go through.  I though we were all adults here, but I guess some are just posing as adults.  I have know some railfans that did good for the railroads, but you are one of the reasons why railfans have a bad name.  POPPA_ZIT you are absolutly correct in my opion.  Gribble I am ashed to say that I live in the same city, or area as you.  This is supost to be a place to share ideas, or pictures, or even have a friendly conversation with the rest of the world about trains.  But the person that started this whole thread, basically created a MOB as he wanted. 

I have gone out with several crews, and I do know what they go through. So you can lose that arrogance right now.

So tell, me, how do I give railfans a bad name? What have I done? By saying we dont have the best reputation in the world? Tell me it isnt true.

Maybe if you took the time to read this post and previous, you'd know that I support the SAs I come across, and have a great time hanging out with them. I dont call them such deragatory names, I'd never consider it. I was responding to what they have been called on this very forum.

Catch me within 50ft of the tracks? Never.

You are "ashed" to say that you and I live in same city, I am "ashed" that you worked for DGNO.

Theonly unfriendly words spoken thus far, has been your attempt, albeit a pathetic one, to trash me. As far as I was concerned, my conversation with PoppaZit was in total respect, again, something your last few posts involving me have been lacking.

[Anonymous]

Well, I thought my conversation with you, Pappa Zit, was in respect, I guess you didnt see it the same way, thats fine.

I am not indicting the entire media over this one instance. I cant indict the media as a whole, because there are many a responable journalist out there, mixed in, but in my opinion outweighed, by the ones who are irresponsable.

What I am saying, is there is no need for people to start so mega huge protest, when common sense, rational discussion would prevail. Going around screaming in like 600 places in a coordinated effort to protest something isnt the best way, and the media will not cast the glowing words that the person seeks.

In D/FW, we have had some railfans who tend to do things like walk oput into the middle of the Tower 55(100+ train per day), get caught, get arrested, make outrageous claims like they are cops, call the local media, media finds out the truth, media then says "these people could be terrorists". Alot of people tend to believe whatever the media tells them. We have had people walk onto the Saginaw Interlocker(75 trains per day), stand on the tracks, to take pictures, I call them into BNSF, buy the time BNSF is able to respond, offender is gone, but remaining railfans are questioned. It doesnt help when FTW Star Telegram is there trying to do a positive story on railfans.

Those are just a few incidents.

Again though, I dont believe we have a stellar reputation with the railroads or the media. I think many of us take the steps to better that rep, but there are some who will always , for lack of a better twerm, screw it up for the rest of us. Bad news sells, and the media knows that.

[Anonymous]

If you are going to act like children, or better yet babies about the whole thing they why not just get in your little corner and cry about it.  It is people like you that give railfans a bad name.  No wonder why us railroaders dont like foamers.  Let me catch you closer than 50 feet from any track and I will be sure to call in the so called rent a cops for you.  You think you are so much better than they are.  Why dont you come out and work with them for just one day.  See how much BS they go through.  I though we were all adults here, but I guess some are just posing as adults.  I have know some railfans that did good for the railroads, but you are one of the reasons why railfans have a bad name.  POPPA_ZIT you are absolutly correct in my opion.  Gribble I am ashed to say that I live in the same city, or area as you.  This is supost to be a place to share ideas, or pictures, or even have a friendly conversation with the rest of the world about trains.  But the person that started this whole thread, basically created a MOB as he wanted. 

I have gone out with several crews, and I do know what they go through. So you can lose that arrogance right now.

So tell, me, how do I give railfans a bad name? What have I done? By saying we dont have the best reputation in the world? Tell me it isnt true.

Maybe if you took the time to read this post and previous, you'd know that I support the SAs I come across, and have a great time hanging out with them. I dont call them such deragatory names, I'd never consider it. I was responding to what they have been called on this very forum.

Catch me within 50ft of the tracks? Never.

You are "ashed" to say that you and I live in same city, I am "ashed" that you worked for DGNO.

Theonly unfriendly words spoken thus far, has been your attempt, albeit a pathetic one, to trash me. As far as I was concerned, my conversation with PoppaZit was in total respect, again, something your last few posts involving me have been lacking.

The way you wrote your respoce to him was the problem.  You may think the DGNO is the greatest in the world, and you can think that all you want.  But the people who have worked and currently work for them have a different attitude.  Everyone there knows that somethings are not going right.  Maybe that is who Railamerica wants to sell them.

So far I have read every post here.  So maybe you should go back and reread all of them.  Maybe you should reread what I wrote.  I did not say crews I said the Transit police, or special agents.  BTW the way I did not mean ashed.  I was at work at the time.  I meant ashamed.

I am also ashamed to say that I worked for the DGNO.  I could and am doing a lot better than some little 2 time railroad that can only go a max of 20, and in most place 10, due to the fact they dont know what track maintance is.  I truly hope that when DART light rail is complete they will yank the DGNO lease.  There are some great people at the DGNO, mainly train crews, but there is a major problem there.  If you cant see it then have someone point it out to you.

[busman1]

Being one of the British railfans mentioned on page 12 of the August issue of TRAINS may I make the following comments.

 The METRA police officers involved were extremely polite and friendly and were never at any time "deliberately uncooperative" and obstructive", in fact in my opinion were a credit to the METRA police force and were I believe only carrying out orders from higher authority (if they read this, "Hi chaps hope you are safe and well".)

My main concern is why it was deemed necessary to take us off a train and be processed a second time (We had been interviewed by the same two officers and had our passports etc. checked a short time earlier!) and also the length of time it apparently took to process us at the Blue Island METRA Police station.

 A letter by myself to "Higher Authority" at METRA drew an unsatisfactory reply and indeed did not touch upon some of the questions asked.

The irony of the whole issue is that METRA probably removed four sets of eyes from their property, who by nature of their employment and training could collectively spot "unusual activity" better than the majority of commuters travelling that morning! Hope this puts some perspective to the issue.

DEREK MILBY.

[Kathi Kube]

OK, everyone needs to take a few deep breaths here. This can be a useful, sensible discussion if we keep the emotions at bay.

The fact is, Simon and his friends were detained for what they and we (the Trains staff) believe was an unreasonable amount of time. Question them? OK, that's fair. But detain them for more than two hours? That's where I've got a problem.

For the record, I do consider one of the group a dear personal friend. He had invited my husband and I to meet them for lunch, but we had other plans and were unable to make it. When I learned a day or two later what had happened, I was appalled and actually embarassed that they would be treated in such a manner while visiting here.

I don't personally know Metra's side, so I don't feel I can comment on that. I do, however, know other people who work there, and I do know Metra is *usually* accommodating to railfans. I was out photographing trains at Deval several months ago when a policeman approached me. All the usual thoughts ran through my head, wondering what was going to happen. Well, in this case, the officer was happy to see the camera around my neck. The UP folks were afraid I might be a "risk" since there had been several tragic incidents around that time. He still ran my license, but waited patiently while I got my shot. Then he suggested I move behind a building — farther into private property — to get a better angle with the sun. That wasn't what I expected.

But that highlights that there are officers, and railfans, and railroaders, and grocery store clerks, and dog walkers, (etc., etc., etc.) who give others a poor reputation. And there are a lot of others out there just doing their thing. Be careful when stereotyping.

And, again, take a deep breath. This is an issue that we're having to face more often and it's not likely to just go away. As tempting as it might be to send a message, it probably wouldn't have the desired result. At the same time, though, we shouldn't roll over and play dead when people try to overstep their legal bounds. Where's the balance? I'm not sure. We still need to find it.

In the meantime, though, getting upset at each other isn't going to accomplish anything except maybe get the thread shut down. Personally, I'd rather search for solutions than create more situations.

Kathi Kube

[Kathi Kube]

Derek & Simon,

It's nice to see you on the forum! I hope both of you make a habit of visiting, and sharing your perspectives on a lot of subjects.

Sometimes these guys get a little worked up, but there are some wonderful people here that I definitely consider close friends, as well. I hope you get to know them as I do.

Welcome!!!

Kathi

[selector]

Thanks, Derek.

At this point, to speculate about the motives of those who made the decision to have you disembark is open to conjecture.  We could sustain this thread indefinitely pondering all possibilities, but the fact is....none of us knows what the decision-makers learned or understood after you were permitted to board the train. 

Still, I am happy that you, too, have good things to say about the ...uh...donut eaters.  Wasn't that the pejorative that someone slung?

[Murphy Siding]

Derek & Simon,

It's nice to see you on the forum! I hope both of you make a habit of visiting, and sharing your perspectives on a lot of subjects.

Sometimes these guys get a little worked up, but there are some wonderful people here that I definitely consider close friends, as well. I hope you get to know them as I do.

Welcome!!!

Kathi

Boy!  the lengths we go to, just to get a few more Brits to join our forum!

[TimChgo9]

First of all to Derek and Simon...  Thanks for coming to visit our fair city. I am sorry to hear what happened to you.   I just want to share a little story: About 6 years or so ago, I had the opportunity to meet a British railfan.  He was shooting photos at CP LaGrange in LaGrange, IL at the same time I was.  Since I had a scanner he approached me, and we wound up introducing ourselves, and we had a great conversation.  He told me something about British Railway Operations, and a few other things.  We parted ways after about 45 minutes or so. I am an Anglophile at heart, so I loved hearing about his home country....  (It just increased my desire to go visit) Unfortunately I do not remember the gentleman's name.  But, I do remember him saying he visits the US yearly, and tries to make it to Chicago each time. 

Now, on to this other mess... 

I left the Trains forums for awhile, because of the way some people in this forum tend to act.  Every time the subject of Law Enforcement vs Railfans comes up, the BS flies, words get written, and uninformed people tend to say things that make absolutely no sense.  It is amazing to me, how much crap gets misread, misinterpreted, or down right made up.  After reading this thread, I am about to leave again.  I can't stand this.  The whimpering, the whining, the sabre rattling and the insults just get to be too much. 

As a former member of, and having grown up around Public Safety (Fire, Police, EMS) I get beside myself when members of this group toss disparaging remarks out there about cops, firemen, or paramedics.  Do any of you (save the folks in this forum that do the job) have any idea, any idea at all what it's like?  Have you ever held a someone's life in your hands? Have you ever had someone expire while you, and your fellow firefighters fight to save the life?  Have you ever talked  someone out of suicide? Consoled an abused child? Helped the police, and paramedic crews in another town track down a shooting victim whose only line to life was the cell phone he dialed 9-1-1 on?  I have done all of the above, and I am damn proud of it. I have worked with some awesome people whose dedication to protecting lives and property had to be seen to be believed.  I worked with many professionals, and there wasn't a  bad one in the bunch.   There is nothing worse than being on a fireground and hearing some spectator who thinks he knows it all because he chases fire trucks for kicks tell the other spectators we are "doing it wrong". 

Quit taking out your frustrations on the people who protect you.  I don't know, and honestly don't understand what happened between the British railfans, and METRA police.  So, I will not be offering an opinion. 

What I will say is this: Threads like this bring out the worst in everyone.  I like to take pictures of trains, but I do not ever feel like my rights have been stomped on.  I have been doing this for fifteen years, and I have had maybe a handful of incidents with local police, and I did what they asked of me; I provided ID, and whatever else they requested, and then when asked to leave, I did.... it's really pretty simple. In many cases, I have been waved at by the local cops, as they drive by on their beats. 

I respect railroaders and the job they do.  Just watching the MOW crews convinced me it's dirty, nasty, heavy work. Watching train crews switch a local just further reinforces that.  I will not even attempt to tell those gentleman how to do their job.  I didn't like it when someone who had no idea what I did for a living tried to tell me how to do mine.....

Simon, Derek, and even Kathi Kube have posted their opinions, and since they are the most informed, I will leave my 2 cents out of it. 

I am going now.... perhaps I will find some sanity in one of the other threads..... then again, maybe I won't.  

Perhaps  I will return, then maybe I won't .... Maybe I will when Bergie starts locking threads like this as soon as they start...

 

[Anonymous]

There's obviously too many foamers here who carry their Crackerjack "Junior Lawyer ID Card" on them, and believe they know everything about the law.

 The reality of it all is that they don't.

 Its time to put this thread to rest....and for good.