Have You had a Rude Railfan-Railroader Experience?

[Junctionfan]

O.k so for so far, I am hearing some conflicted answers. Although there is no legal right to prevent non-commercial photographs of trains from public property, I can still be sued for doing it..........................?????? Help me out here...........[%-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I can still be sued for doing it..........................?????? Help me out here...........[%-)]

I could sue you for having red hair, even if you were bald.....

Whether I could collect anything remains to be seen, but I could cost you a fortune in attorney fees defending yourself.

[Anonymous]

only one time a csx train stopped not too far from I was standing a crew menber shouted out rudely "Put that camera down You can't be [censored] recording THIS train!" But i was not listening to the crew member that was rude and continued recording elsewhere.

[Junctionfan]

WOW........the U.S really needs some tort law reform in terms of criteria to take action in court.

Not being an American so I have to ask you; don't you get sick of hearing of rediculous excuses to sue?

[edblysard]

James,
Read Mark's post carefully...
Because he put into a few words what we have all been saying.

Now, take a look through the grey....and apply a good dose of common sense.
You are looking for a black and white definition of what is and isn’t...which has been provided you.

But it is up to you to decide if what you are after is worth the fight.

Imagine an instance where both your and the railroader are certain you are right...you might be on public property, by your definition, and he might think not, then you have to decide if the end result is worth the hassle.

The two Metro photographers who were badly treated felt it was worth it to them, and in the end, the system proved them "right"...but it did cost them.
So, is the cost worth it to you?

By law there is a definition, or a set of boundaries, in real life, such boundaries are often ill defined or not defined at all, they are in the grey, so to speak, and left up to you to decide.

Which is why we have the courts in the first place, because each instance has to be looked at on the merits of that particular incident.

Almost no one has the right to stop you from taking photos, but the law does allow them to recoup damages if they can convince a jury or a judge you violated their "rights" in doing so.

I think what you are asking is for a clearly defined place to shot photos from, or someone to tell you that this spot is ok, that spot is not...good luck.

Read Marks post again....

I think you already have a good idea what is and what isn’t...

I also think your right; most of us would love to be on a magazine cover!

So shoot all the photos you want, and if someone tries to tell you can not, apply your common sense, decide if its a fight worth it to you, if it is, hunker down and get ready, if it isn’t, move to a better spot and shoot some more!

And read Marks post one more time!

Ed

[exPalaceDog]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lone Byrd

only one time a csx train stopped not too far from I was standing a crew menber shouted out rudely "Put that camera down You can't be [censored] recording THIS train!" But i was not listening to the crew member that was rude and continued recording elsewhere.

Are you sure that the train was NOT carrying military or some other type of sensitive material?

Aren't railroads required to hold information on who ships or receives what in what amounts in confidence? Business do not want their competiters to know their business.

Any chance that the railroader was violating some rule?

Have fun

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

WOW........the U.S really needs some tort law reform in terms of criteria to take action in court.

Not being an American so I have to ask you; don't you get sick of hearing of rediculous excuses to sue?

Define "ridiculous excuses to sue"...(?)

If you stand to be on the receiving end of a massive wadd of cash, just about any reason begins to look justifiable.

Actually there are what is known as the Yost Statute, that attempt to curb malicious prosecution, sueing just to make the defendant suffer... But there is a whopping gray area, who is to say that I haven't "suffered" at the hands of the person I'm intending to sue? usually only the courts can decide that.

The grand litmus is in the plaintiffs ability to demonstrate that they have been made a victim.

And yes, I get really sick of the entire philisophy of victimology. everyone is the victim, take a number and stand in line.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark_W._Hemphill

James: To repeat my post from 13 October:

1. You generally have the right to take photographs while you're standing on public property of anything you can reasonably see from public property. Public property usually does not include parking lots (even of public venues), station platforms, or the like. Parks, streets, and sidewalks are public property.
2. Photographs used for journalistic or educational purposes or personal use DO NOT require the consent of the person being photographed. Photos used for commercial purposes (just about every other use in which money changes hands or a product is sold) DO require the consent of the person being photographed.
3. If someone says you cannot take photos from public property, feel free to escalate as far as you want.

Correct. Thanks for the clarification Mark...

LC

[chad thomas]

[Anonymous]

I think the show is over.

[tarnett]

If I am ever out shooting pictures along the railroad and someone tells me to get out of "their" spot because they are a "professional railfan", my response will be, "I'm a professional***kicker, wanna do some business?"!

T.

[Anonymous]

The solution (as always) is that the trains need louder horns...[oX)]

If engineers had sufficiently loud horns at their disposal, they could simply blow their horns at these intrusive beligerants, and either make the leave , or go deaf..[:-,]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

The solution (as always) is that the trains need louder horns...[oX)]

If engineers had sufficiently loud horns at their disposal, they could simply blow their horns at these intrusive beligerants, and either make the leave , or go deaf..[:-,]

.....WHAT????......................................[;)]

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates



If engineers had sufficiently loud horns at their disposal, they could simply blow their horns at these intrusive beligerants, and either make the leave , or go deaf..[:-,]

Yes, but then they probably would sue the railroad and win.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tarnett

If I am ever out shooting pictures along the railroad and someone tells me to get out of "their" spot because they are a "professional railfan", my response will be, "I'm a professional***kicker, wanna do some business?"!

T.

[:D] I resemble that remark [8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

I think the show is over.

Yep, it's time to shake hands and let the thread go to the second page.

Dear Mr. Hemphill,
To avoid any misunderstandings, I did not disagree with your posts.

Dear Ed,
I didn't mean to be purile, but when you're on the defending side of a topic approaching the critical mass for a forum fire, things can happen. I'm sorry if I offended you. I appreciate your concern.

I work on steam locomotives on weekends--just black, no white [:)][:D][8D]!

Dear Junctionfan,
Yep, Canda is much smarter than the US.

Dear James,
Thanks for being on my "team."

Dear LimitedClear and Dan,
No hard feelings, okay [:)]?
________________________________________________________

Back in the middle ages, people would fight in wars (Crusades, Britan vs. France, etc.) for no good reason. The wars were started for one, but thirty years later nobody could remember why. Here, we got in an argument over GCOR rules, and seven pages later, we were throwing posts back and forth over completely different things than on pages one and two.

In the end, we argued a lot (even tossed in a few bible verses) and, 135 posts later, are nowhere but where we started.

When I posted this topic 11 days ago, I didn't think it would be controversially debated like this. As a matter of fact, I didn't even think the railroaders would chime in all that much. It was mostly for the railfans.

The best advice now is no different than when we started. Use common sense, don't look for a fight, and leave if asked. If you were (you feel) in the right (like on public property), then use the newspapers or other media to your advantage--courts cost more than 37 cents!!!! The railfans in the Metra incident used the media, remained out of court, and were succesful.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[:D][^][:I][:o)][8D][8)][:)][;)][:P][(-D][(-D][:-^]

[chad thomas]

Well I for one thought this was a great thread. I learned a few things. Especialy from the posts of Ed and Mark.

[Anonymous]

This thread was great... very EDUCATIONAL[^]

[edblysard]

Actually, I learned a few things here also...which is why I visit this forum more than any other...the people here make it worth it.

Ed