Sam1 tbdanny: Hi, I've been following this debate with interest, as my fiancee and I are planning a honeymoon to the United States in September next year. We'll be travelling by train from Los Angeles to Chicago - this was always part of the plan, as I used to model the ATSF and this is the old Cajon Pass route. We'll probably end up flying between Chicago and New York, then from New York back to LA for the flight to Australia, but now we have an idea of the worst to expect when flying within the USA. We may not have a choice, but we'll be prepared to tolerate it. Especially after seeing articles like this one. Also, it's my understanding that the Fourth Amendment to your constitution only exempts border security searches - which would mean that the 'scanner or pat-down' searches without reasonable cause on domestic flights would be a violation? Cheers, tbdanny No worries! By the time you get here the TSA and the carriers will have worked the snags out of the screening processes. They always have a few glitches when they implement new technology or procedures. And the American press, believe it or not, tends to take exceptions and blow them out of proportion. Many people take a few isolated instances and generalize them to the population as a whole. Of course, in most instances, there is no logical reason to do so. Come to think of it, that may happen on Train's forums from time to time. LA to Chicago on the Southwest Chief is a good ride. I did it in May of this year from Chicago to LA. I enjoyed every minute of it. If time permits, I recommend that you take the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington, D.C. and the Acela from Washington to New York. The Capitol passes through some pretty scenery, and the Acela is a hoot (that's America speak for a thrill), although a pricey one. If you get an Amtrak Rail Pass, you can get a pretty good fare, I believe. Moreover, with you currency being on a near par with the American dollar, you will not have to pay the premium that many of my Australian friends had to pay when they visited America. For those legs in the U.S. where you have to fly, choose Southwest Airlines if possible. It does not charge you for checked bags. Moreover, if you fly in Australia (I never met an Australian who does not fly), you will feel right at home on Southwest. It is just like Virgin Blue or Virgin Blue is just like it. I like Virgin Blue better because it offers assigned seats. That plus the fact that I was on the first flight on the second day of operations out of Melbourne makes me a devoted customer of Virgin Blue. I lived in Melbourne from 1999 to 2004. Your country is great! It is one of the best places that I have lived. I go back every year or so to visit friends in Melbourne and Sydney. Whilst I lived in Australia I rode the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth. I also rode the QR's Tilt train, the Spirit of the Outback, and The Sunlander. My journey on the Spirit of the Outback was from Longreach to Brisbane. Not too many Americans get to Longreach. QR is a first class railway. Also, I have taken The Overland between Melbourne and Adelaide six times. And I cannot remember how many times I have taken the Countrylink between Melbourne and Sydney and vice versa. Plan on a nice trip to the USA. Airport security is a fact of modern air travel. It is a pain but it is not intolerable or nearly as bad as some folks make it out to be. Try to avoid the rush hours, e.g. Sunday night, Monday morning, Friday evening, as well as some of the heavy holiday locations, e.g. Orlando, Miami, etc., at least on the heavy travel days. If you follow these suggestions, you should encounter minor inconveniences. Allow plenty of time to check in, have a cup of coffee, and board your airplane. You won't notice much difference between the security at Sydney and LA. Cheers
tbdanny: Hi, I've been following this debate with interest, as my fiancee and I are planning a honeymoon to the United States in September next year. We'll be travelling by train from Los Angeles to Chicago - this was always part of the plan, as I used to model the ATSF and this is the old Cajon Pass route. We'll probably end up flying between Chicago and New York, then from New York back to LA for the flight to Australia, but now we have an idea of the worst to expect when flying within the USA. We may not have a choice, but we'll be prepared to tolerate it. Especially after seeing articles like this one. Also, it's my understanding that the Fourth Amendment to your constitution only exempts border security searches - which would mean that the 'scanner or pat-down' searches without reasonable cause on domestic flights would be a violation? Cheers, tbdanny
Hi,
I've been following this debate with interest, as my fiancee and I are planning a honeymoon to the United States in September next year. We'll be travelling by train from Los Angeles to Chicago - this was always part of the plan, as I used to model the ATSF and this is the old Cajon Pass route.
We'll probably end up flying between Chicago and New York, then from New York back to LA for the flight to Australia, but now we have an idea of the worst to expect when flying within the USA. We may not have a choice, but we'll be prepared to tolerate it. Especially after seeing articles like this one.
Also, it's my understanding that the Fourth Amendment to your constitution only exempts border security searches - which would mean that the 'scanner or pat-down' searches without reasonable cause on domestic flights would be a violation?
Cheers,
tbdanny
No worries!
By the time you get here the TSA and the carriers will have worked the snags out of the screening processes. They always have a few glitches when they implement new technology or procedures. And the American press, believe it or not, tends to take exceptions and blow them out of proportion. Many people take a few isolated instances and generalize them to the population as a whole. Of course, in most instances, there is no logical reason to do so. Come to think of it, that may happen on Train's forums from time to time.
LA to Chicago on the Southwest Chief is a good ride. I did it in May of this year from Chicago to LA. I enjoyed every minute of it. If time permits, I recommend that you take the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington, D.C. and the Acela from Washington to New York. The Capitol passes through some pretty scenery, and the Acela is a hoot (that's America speak for a thrill), although a pricey one. If you get an Amtrak Rail Pass, you can get a pretty good fare, I believe. Moreover, with you currency being on a near par with the American dollar, you will not have to pay the premium that many of my Australian friends had to pay when they visited America.
For those legs in the U.S. where you have to fly, choose Southwest Airlines if possible. It does not charge you for checked bags. Moreover, if you fly in Australia (I never met an Australian who does not fly), you will feel right at home on Southwest. It is just like Virgin Blue or Virgin Blue is just like it. I like Virgin Blue better because it offers assigned seats. That plus the fact that I was on the first flight on the second day of operations out of Melbourne makes me a devoted customer of Virgin Blue.
I lived in Melbourne from 1999 to 2004. Your country is great! It is one of the best places that I have lived. I go back every year or so to visit friends in Melbourne and Sydney.
Whilst I lived in Australia I rode the Indian Pacific from Sydney to Perth. I also rode the QR's Tilt train, the Spirit of the Outback, and The Sunlander. My journey on the Spirit of the Outback was from Longreach to Brisbane. Not too many Americans get to Longreach. QR is a first class railway. Also, I have taken The Overland between Melbourne and Adelaide six times. And I cannot remember how many times I have taken the Countrylink between Melbourne and Sydney and vice versa.
Plan on a nice trip to the USA. Airport security is a fact of modern air travel. It is a pain but it is not intolerable or nearly as bad as some folks make it out to be. Try to avoid the rush hours, e.g. Sunday night, Monday morning, Friday evening, as well as some of the heavy holiday locations, e.g. Orlando, Miami, etc., at least on the heavy travel days. If you follow these suggestions, you should encounter minor inconveniences. Allow plenty of time to check in, have a cup of coffee, and board your airplane. You won't notice much difference between the security at Sydney and LA.
Cheers
Some time in the future, I hope to ride the Acela, but our current health situation precludes any trip in the near future.
Johnny
tbdanny . Also, it's my understanding that the Fourth Amendment to your constitution only exempts border security searches - which would mean that the 'scanner or pat-down' searches without reasonable cause on domestic flights would be a violation?
.
From the 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The border exemption is the result of Congress passing legislation to interpret what is "reasonable" under the Constitution. The issue of scanner or pat down searches performed without any cause is very hot button here right now -- and rational people are on both sides of the question of its being constitutional.
The situation may very well change by the time of your visit. For now, however, you should expect to be groped/imaged on all domestic flights. As of now, the security theatre has not extended to trains.
I grew up in an orphanage for boys. 10 years of, basically, barracks living (group showers, toilet rooms with no dividers, etc.) left me with very little body shyness. A normal life brought some of that lost shyness back, but serious illness since 1999 has made me young again in that aspect. I don't care who sees my body. If they don't like it they can look aside.
What I object to about the TSA is the hassle involved. I don't walk very well, so I need to go through TSA in a wheelchair. This is OK in some places but not in others. And the entire routine exhausts me.
I also object to the pointlessness of it all. They need to copy what El Al does and have done with it. They can forget about hijackers with knives and guns. After Flight 93 no one is going to successfully hijack a plane in the USA.
They should worry only about bombs and bomb materials. So, where are the dogs? A good sized troop of dogs in each airport would do the trick. They are much better at detecting explosives than human operators.. I saw somewhere that the Russians have bred a dog breed specifically for sniffing out bombs. They are quite rare but that can be overcome.
Jack
Jack_S I also object to the pointlessness of it all. They need to copy what El Al does and have done with it. They can forget about hijackers with knives and guns. After Flight 93 no one is going to successfully hijack a plane in the USA.
I agree the El Al approach is superior. However, I question the applicability of it to this country's situation. Where is the world could you find the 60,000 replacements (that is the current TSA workforce) who are both mentally qualified to perform the screening and willing to work in a federal bureaucracy? Alternatively, do you believe the current workforce could be retrained to become effective screeners?
I think we are all assuming the very nature of a railroad precludes applying airport style security measures to rail and subway. That means that the defense against a bomber is almost exclusively the strength of our intelligence operations. Our intelligence operations certainly were not that good prior to 9-11. Do we believe they are now? If so, how do you explain the Detroit bomber's presence on an airliner? Or is the bottom line here that we are willing to lose a rail car of people but not lose the same number in an airliner?
Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners. Have a booth that you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of this crap about racial profiling or X-ray exposure
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
inch53 Here's a solution to all the controversy over full-body scanners. Have a booth that you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on you. It would be a win-win for everyone, and there would be none of this crap about racial profiling or X-ray exposure
Your "booth" would not even necessarily have to be for real -- just well-publicized, with maybe a faked incident or two.
Phoebe Vet Please publish a list of terrorists caught at TSA airport screening stations in all the years they have been doing this.
Please publish a list of terrorists caught at TSA airport screening stations in all the years they have been doing this.
Please publish a list of all terrrorists that did not attack an airliner because of TSA airport screening. You can't, but I bet there are some out there.
An "expensive model collector"
People who are afraid will tolerate any indignity if it makes them less afraid. Fear is a strong motivator. That's why terrorism works. Americans are very easily frightened.
Obviously you are more afraid than I am, because I will NOT tolerate the security play at the airport.
In the words of President Franklin D. Roosevelt: “The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
From what I have heard, it seems that maybe over 65% of Americans don’t see what is such a big deal about the searches and pat downs. But the issues of personal privacy and modesty are only on the very surface of this topic. There are much deeper issues that the 65% fail to see. Perhaps that is the most worrisome aspect of all.
Phoebe Vet Obviously you are more afraid than I am, because I will NOT tolerate the security play at the airport.
Let me know the next time you fly. I want to watch the news that night...
I don't think it's fear for most people. But rather they have just accepted the security thing as a condition of wanting to fly commercially. A slight difference...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Phoebe Vet People who are afraid will tolerate any indignity if it makes them less afraid. Fear is a strong motivator. That's why terrorism works. Americans are very easily frightened. Obviously you are more afraid than I am, because I will NOT tolerate the security play at the airport. In the words of President Franklin D. Roosevelt: “The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”.
Maybe if we didn't have bullheaded Americans like you the Twin Towers would still be standing.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Weeeelll.....this one's baked.
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