Harassed in Fostoria

[doghouse]

 

Since everyone is giving their two cents on this topic, how about: "Is now a good time to pull the plug on this thread?"  Yes, no? (Mind your own business?)

[Erie Lackawanna]

Holy moly, I've now read the whole thread...

I think we need a turn the beer sales off after the first three pages of posts rule.

[youngengineer]

OK, so we found something foamers hate more then railroader's that don't wave.  I can't speak to the incident I wasn't there, i don't know what actually happened. If the employee acted as was stated, it's a bit over the line.  If your offended beacuse she didnt know the law, great, glad you know the law so well. If your offended at being called a terrorist grow a thicker skin. If your offended because you didn't get your picture, go back the next day.

If you railfan along railroad right away, on or near or miles from it, and you have a camera and scanner, etc. expect at some point to be hasseled. If you can't deal with the fact that someone at some point is going to hassle you, don't railfan. It is really unbecoming to come onto this forum and bring nothing to the discussion. Is this important, or relevant to other railfans, I really can't see how it is. So you ran across what might be a employee with bad attitude or bad day, so what.

When i'm at work i expect that I will be watched either by a company offical or railfan. However, if i see that either one is in danger or in a potentially dangerous position I will not hesitate to ask either to change what they are doing. If you railfan and myself or another empolyee asks you to leave, just do it, don't become a self appointed lawyer, or someone with an attitude. trust me, if i call the police and say to them, I have someone on the property or close to it and they are being beligerent, or otherwise disprespectful, you are going to have a very bad day. I have only asked a handful of railfans to leave, this was due to closeness to the tracks, or just acting in a strange manner. I have a duty to keep my fellow employess safe, my companies operations smooth, and protect the public. If at anytime I don't like the situation I will do what I can to change it.

We have many threats to the railroad everyday, we have many potential threats to the railroad. We live in a world were bad people do bad things to others. Do I think that we have gone to far, or being overly paranoid about those around us, maybe, but maybe we should have been looking out for these type of situations earlier.

Please, be respectful of others, be kind your fellow humans, and if someone is having a bad day and harrasing you just walk away. You will feel better for not having upset them further and maybe they will think twice next time and do the right thing. You don't know what transpired to your arrival at your location, maybe she had some disrespectful railfans before you arrived, you don't know and your whining about a trivial incident is unwarranted.

I find it amazing the same railfans on here always have the same troubles, when others on here never seem to have trouble, maybe you should look at your own actions and ask yourself am I the problem and if so change. Others on here have been told to get back, go away, or other such instructions and just deal with the situation.

I ralfanned for years before I worked for the railroad, I only had one run-in with railroad police, they said that they would prefer I leave, so I did. I didn't go back that area for awhile and when I did no longer had any problems, granted I never touched anything, never crossed tracks and never tried to approach buildings or other sensitvie areas. Railroads are dangerous places, heed the warning even if you don't like it and be kind to those that approach you, you never know you might change someones attitude if you use a little common courtesy which so many railfans seem to lack. A smile and a thank you go along way to put me at ease that you are not doing something illegal or harmful to my employeers bussiness.

Thank You

NOT SINGED (becasue it does not matter)

[Soo 6604]

I dont beleive that Chad has the popcorn machine working overtime. I think he's using the microwavable popcorn. The radiation has to go somewhere.

"Trouble Maker" Paul

[Poppa_Zit]

and for the reason why i was the first to get "hot" over this thread was that a fellow sister in service could get in some kind of trouble with the company due to the actions of one hurt feelings train buff...i cant stand people that have to make issue out of not being told they couldnt do something..there are alot of things i have been told i couldnt do..some in polite ways and others in ways that make what this woman said sound respectfull.. yet i didnt go off and have to write a letter..i sucked it up and moved on with my life.. 

csx engineer 

Then why are you having major problems getting past this discussion?

[chad thomas]

I dont beleive that Chad has the popcorn machine working overtime. I think he's using the microwavable popcorn. The radiation has to go somewhere.

"Trouble Maker" Paul

And if it weren't for those meddeling kids, I would have gotten away with it.

[spokyone]

Looking at Kevin's website pics, I see lots of people, even little kids, running all around the tracks, when the 611 was in town even when it was moving. That does not look safe at all.How bout taking pics of sensitive areas? Pics were being taken of everything. So terrorists are only active when not around people?

 I just noticed his web site is down.

[cpbloom]

Many times on this very forum, we have read instances where, for example, a policeman comes up and asks someone ot leave, and the railfan develops a case of "the nerve of that guy" attitude.

 

I just laugh when I hear this; I hope no one here ever has to put up with real harassment. 

[csxengineer98]

and for the reason why i was the first to get "hot" over this thread was that a fellow sister in service could get in some kind of trouble with the company due to the actions of one hurt feelings train buff...i cant stand people that have to make issue out of not being told they couldnt do something..there are alot of things i have been told i couldnt do..some in polite ways and others in ways that make what this woman said sound respectfull.. yet i didnt go off and have to write a letter..i sucked it up and moved on with my life.. 

csx engineer 

Then why are you having major problems getting past this discussion?

i dont have a problem with getting past anything..i do on the other hand have problems with people that think they feel the need to cry the blues becoues they had there feelings hurt by being called a name.. i do not railfan..i did alittle back in my younger days but was never very much back then.. was more of a model railroader myself..but thats beside the point.. but back to the point.. actions like this taken by the orignal poster are going to make things alot harder on the rest of you rail buffs in that area if anything becomes of it and that employee is repromaned for her actions i can almost willing to bet without a shadow of a dought that anytime from that point on anyone at that terminal sees ANYONE near the tracks with taking pics or other wise..the cops will be called and you will be "hassled" as some of you like to say by the local and or rail road cops.. and forget any "perks" such awnsering any questions you might have should you ask one to a railroad around the area.... more then likey this letter that was sent is going to end up being sent around the main office..the office staff will get a laugh out of it.. and be tossed in the trash can.. hell they might even give her a promotion to a position where she can "hassle" you all even more..never know..

someone above me put alot of my thoughts and feelings i have about this issue into a very well writin posting.. granted i am not a great oritor.. and i try to express myself as best i can on here.. but when i get "hot" my brain thinks faster then i can type..

in the 10 years i have been railroading..i have tried to be nice to most of you foamers..but it seems as the years go on.. more and more of you feel that you have a right to do what ever you want to do..and if somoene says no.. you get all bent out of shape...more and more of you are becomeing brazen with your actions and more and more confrentational... just look at some of the posts in this thread.. i have the right to bla bla bla..  

csx engineer 

 

[csxengineer98]

this is a case study in railroad/railfan relations.. insted of being respectfull when you come into "our house" (on public proporty or not you are watching the actions of our place of work..and the actions of us doing our jobs) and should be respectfull of US the EMPLOLYEES!!! that means if we ask you not to take pics then dont do it.. just move on to another location or something.. im sure that if we where to come to your place of work and take pics of you or your company doing what it dose and you didnt want your pic or the actions of the company photograghed you would say something to the person takeing the pics too... but this isnt about taking pics or the right to take pics from public proporty of trains..this is all becouse someone got there feelings hurt by a brash employee...bottom line!!!!

csx engineer 

If you can stand on public property and take photos of me at work, have at it.

 

if i knew what you did and where you worked out of..maybe i would in my time off.. but that isnt the point here.. this isnt about photos or the rights to do it from where.. its about someone being confronted granted in a less that profecinal mannor..and having his feelings hurt becouse the person used the word terrorist... re-read the letter dude.. it is all about that word and how his feelings where hurt and feeling insulted becouse the employee used it.. that is what this is all about.. some of you want to make this an issue of it was public proporty crap..that isnt what this is about at all..reread the first posting and the letter.. you will see the tone of his posting turn when that word was used.. not becouse he was asked not to take pics.. THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE..DEAL WITH IT!!!!

 

Well, DUDE, I did go back and read the 1st post, I also re-read the 2nd reply, and if I were to  get excited over anyone, it would be that person.  Do you recognise that person??  His mention of THE word was a secondary point, his main issue was that of the person and yelling inaccurate information and doing so in a unprofessional manner.

I happen to agree with the original post, and also with all of what was said by Poppa_zit.  AND, it really does come down to the issue of being on public property and being on private property.  When on public property, one is allowed to take photo's of (in this instance) trains.  It is not illegal!!  Like another poster said, "when they are used commercially" that is a different issue.  I also believe that he did the proper thing in not confronting, however, if I were him, I would have completely ignored the person on the "porch BEHIND the engine" and went about my business.  I would rather deal with the local law enforcement than with a wannabe security person who has absolutely no authority beyond property lines.  So, DUDE. chill and deal with it goes both ways.  You were the 1st one to go hyper over this post.

thanks,

Jared 

here is my responce to this....... this is OUR house..public proporty or not.. if asked not to take pics regardless of the demeaner of the person saying it.then dont do it.. be respectfull to the job and the employees.. i stand by my statment that is has nothing to do with the pics as it is the exchange between the employee and the person... posting such as yours and this one that started this whole tread are a prime example of why some of use railroaders dont like rail buffs.. its the oh i wasnt doing anything wrong..but yet you where taking pics of me while i was working and maybe i was haveing a bad day and in a very POed mood and just didnt want my pic taken.. maybe i missed out on going to a wedding that day becouse i got called into work and there you are on a nice saterday afternoon track side taking pics injoying yourself when i have to work and "proform" for you like a circuse animal for your amusement and injoyment.. you might only think of it as equimpment or a building..but there is more to it then that.. the human side of things and being human myself there are days where i dont want to deal with people im working with let alone someone trying to take my pic while im working...so DUDE.. be respectfull if anyone asks you not to take any more pics regardless of where it is or what it of..  public proporty isnt a free licence to invade my place of work if i am not feeling photogenic that day!!!!

csx engineer 

As in the my last response, you need to get something correct, you may ask me to not take your photo, and being a decent human being I should respect your request.  Tell me that it is illegal to take your photo and we will continue to argue the point.  Yes it is your house, don't make exceptions, because (and you are not going to like this) public property is NOT your house.  Sorry!! Public property is not your place of work, then you would be a public employee and subject to different codes of conduct (probably be required to wear a vest).

As far as your "sister" is concerned, she made a decision to do the wrong thing, don't make it worse by condoning it just for the sister/brotherhood.  She made a mistake, if that causes her  a penalty, welcome to the real world.

Kudos to Paul a fellow railfan from Appleton in a following post.

Jared 

 

and in responce to you yet agin..

she may have been wrong with the laws regarding pic taking and the scanner use.. but the point still remains that regardless of who was right or wrong this is all over hurt feelings.. that is what this all boils down to..insted of just moving on and maybe another day or time if this happens agin be more willing to help "re-educate" the person in the wrong..not go cry to corp. about it.. being wrong is part life.. in my oppion both parties might have been wrong..her in the way she handled it..and him for the way he handled it.. his actions as i stated in a post already can make things alot more difficult for you to injoy your hobby if everytime anyone at that terminal desides to let "the law" come question you.. going to miss a few more shots of trains hwile they are running your personal info to check you out if they chose to on public land or not.. ..and that is the welcome to the real world of his actions 

csx engineer 

[tree68]

If you railfan along railroad right away, on or near or miles from it, and you have a camera and scanner, etc. expect at some point to be hassled.

Methinks the issue is the manner in which one is "hassled."

If a police officer, railroad employee, or even a citizen on the street comes up to me and speaks in a civil tone, advising me that I am in the wrong, or at least I appear to be in the wrong, I'm going to speak with them civilly and we're going to resolve the issue.  If I can't convince them I'm actually within my rights, or they convince me that I'm clearly out of bounds, I'll leave.  I've been "hassled," my railfanning activities have been interrupted, but we all understand the why's and wherefors and things stay on an even keel.

But if I'm approached by someone sporting an air of righteous indignation, with said person spouting off things that are clearly not true or totally irrelavent, I'm probably going to put up a fight (verbal, not physical) and stand my ground.  If said person has shown no credentials, I'll gladly wait for someone to show up who can.

We've seen plenty of examples here before of folks who have been challenged by overzealous authorities, citing non-existant laws.  Of course, the balance isn't there - we don't hear about the folks who were asked to leave by perfectly calm officials, acting within the law, and did as requested.

As for being called a terrorist - I think that's just the perjorative term of the day.  That's not to say that terrorists aren't bad.  Rather had the woman in question not had "terrorist" to use, she probably would have used another derogatory term.

[SR1457]

Well after 2 days and close to 200 opinions, this mystery is still unsolved, and after all is said, its all somebodys opinion and who really cares! lets get on to something more serious, like "Do you think Steam will make a comeback" This is a situation where you have a i said/ she said, as i stated before and you all know this, there is always 3 sides to a story, yours, mine, and the truth!

[Phoebe Vet]

As a retired police officer I can assure you that you are absolutely correct.  The initial attitude of the person in authority determines whether the situation is a civil conversation, or degenerates into a confrontation, and it doesn't really matter whether the person being approached is in the right, or the wrong.

A lesson which I wish the egocentric people in the District of Columbia would learn.

No, I'm not thinking of any one in particular.

[Modelcar]

....Perhaps we must slow down and agree to disagree.....

On the fan's side:  Being on property other than that belonging to the RR....being called out for doing so in an arrogant manner....RR employee shouting out non existing laws {that fan is breaking}....carelessly, shouting descriptive "words" to fan that did not apply....and being shouted to, to leave for questionable reasons...{not getting feelings hurt as some have said}.....but demanding the fan leave, etc. while on property other than RR ROW {property}.....

On the RR's side:  Feeling "someone" is "threatening property and operations"....Acting on the company's behalf to maintain safety....and security, etc....

From what we know, and I'd say we all have the same knowledge and that is from the first fan's post....We can't "cure" anything beyond what's already been discussed.  So....we probably must agree to disagree. 

[PigFarmer1]

Well after 2 days and close to 200 opinions, this mystery is still unsolved, and after all is said, its all somebodys opinion and who really cares! lets get on to something more serious, like "Do you think Steam will make a comeback" This is a situation where you have a i said/ she said, as i stated before and you all know this, there is always 3 sides to a story, yours, mine, and the truth!

 You know, you could just skip this particular thread if it's bothersome to you.  I find it kind of fascinating that someone would not only write a letter to the railroad about this rather trivial matter but, would also post the letter on the internet as a sympathy ploy.  If the letter gets any actual results at all they likely will be adverse for railfans because the local employees will dislike foamers that much more because of the letter.

[marknewton]

Get used to it.

Since 9/11 we have devolved into a neurotic paranoid society who's obsession with "security" borders on mental illness, and it gets more bizarre every day.

We just recently passed the one million person milestone on the list of people who need to be extra hassled before deciding whether they should be allowed on an airplane, and a school district in Texas just voted to arm their teachers and staff with concealed handguns.

I'm glad I am old.  I am sad for my grandchildren.  But then, since they don't remember the days when we had protections from runaway government, they probably won't miss it. 

I agree, but it's not just runaway government to blame for your current ills, it's also the weak, gutless, lickspittle quislings amongst your own people who willingly acquiesce to this "security" regime.

I'm astounded by some of the opinions expressed on this thread. When a bloke prepared to stand up for himself when confronted by someone abusing their limited or non-existant authority is derided as being a "troublemaker", I'd say you've got problems. For a country that proclaims itself to be the land of the brave and the free, you look remarkably like oppressed cowards from over here.

[PigFarmer1]

Get used to it.

Since 9/11 we have devolved into a neurotic paranoid society who's obsession with "security" borders on mental illness, and it gets more bizarre every day.

We just recently passed the one million person milestone on the list of people who need to be extra hassled before deciding whether they should be allowed on an airplane, and a school district in Texas just voted to arm their teachers and staff with concealed handguns.

I'm glad I am old.  I am sad for my grandchildren.  But then, since they don't remember the days when we had protections from runaway government, they probably won't miss it. 

I agree, but it's not just runaway government to blame for your current ills, it's also the weak, gutless, lickspittle quislings amongst your own people who willingly acquiesce to this "security" regime.

I'm astounded by some of the opinions expressed on this thread. When a bloke prepared to stand up for himself when confronted by someone abusing their limited or non-existant authority is derided as being a "troublemaker", I'd say you've got problems. For a country that proclaims itself to be the land of the brave and the free, you look remarkably like oppressed cowards from over here.

 

Wait until you have a major terrorist attack and come back and tell us how brave your country is.  Has all this Chicken Little stuff gone too far?  In my opinion it has but, it's kind of funny how attitudes change when 3,000 innocent civilians are murdered. 

[marknewton]

My country is not so much brave as stupid - we keep allowing ourselves to be dragged into other people's wars, and following other country's bad examples. And unlike yours, we don't make any overwrought claims about our bravery or liberty as part of our national identity.

But I'll tell you one thing we did that was smart - when we did suffer a major terrorist attack, we took steps to work in co-operation with the countries involved, and we tracked down those responsible, and brought them before a properly constituted and credible court, and they were tried and convicted in a process that was fair, just and transparent.

What we didn't do was go haring off halfway around the world to invade some other country that was, at best, only peripherally involved.

What we also didn't do was hand the terrorists a victory by starting to dismantle the rule of law, and eroding long-standing, hard-won civil rights.

And before any of you start whingeing about this thread becoming "political", don't bother. It became political when the first poster used "9/11" or "homeland security" as a justification for hassling railfans.

Mark.

[Phoebe Vet]

Mark:

While I think the slur is a little over the top, In fact I agree.

People totally ignore the fact that the death toll was so high on 9/11 because of the design of the buildings.  The criminal act of flying into them was the trigger, but the design is the reason they collapsed in the fire.

In 1945, a B-25 bomber hit the 79th floor of the Empire State Building. The fuel tank exploded engulfing the 79th floor in fire.  11 people died and two dozen were injured.  The building still stands today.

I have been flabbergasted at how easily my countrymen have been manipulated into voluntarily giving up so much.

I am now leaving this thread.    Have fun.

[csxengineer98]

ok..after i cooled off alittle and was able to collect my thoughts alittle regarding this issue...

one of the key issues that i have with the letter besides that i think it was an over reaction to a non issue.. is that being a railroader and haveing to deal with enought from the carrier and the FRA regarding rules compliance in order to protect my job from officals that want to fire anyone at the drop of a hate for not haveing there safty glasses on while walking to a ready track or getting a heavy fine from the FRA..then to have my job threatend from an outside factor such as an irate railfan is what got me fired up.. this case could set a presedent should the carrier take action aginst this woman for her actions...  not only do i have to watch my butt from the company and goverment.. now i have to watch the rail buffs for fear of them turning me into the company becouse i wasnt polite enought for there likeing and they take some kind of action becouse i might have hurt there feelings or i didnt awenser there question that they might have asked me track side.. or hell..even wave... this job can be very stressfull enought as it is without the added stress of haveing railfans holding my livelyhood in there hands now too...

csx engineer 

[tstage]

Now that we seemed to have moved into the political arena, why don't we just move onto other posts and threads on trains.  This thread has run it's course.  Lively conversation...as usual...

Tom