twhite wrote: Antonio--Why didn't you come on EARLIER, LOL? Your posts always tend to set us back to what we were talking about originally, myself included (especially in this one!). Thanks.Tom
Antonio--
Why didn't you come on EARLIER, LOL?
Your posts always tend to set us back to what we were talking about originally, myself included (especially in this one!).
Thanks.
Tom
Just wanted to read along a bit as things did go south for a couple of minutes there.
You may remember that a year or so ago I was accused by a forum member, named Bruce, of trying to act like a moderator whenever I would kindly suggest "calm" on a thread undergoing a flame war. As a result I became a blowtorch target and I even started hurling rocks back until finally my common sense kicked in again.
My attitude is that this forum is a club that is open to anyone. Club members should help and look out for each other, even during disagreements. I wouldn't want to see an imitation of the big melt-down that occured on the Atlas forum back in 2005.
What has been really neat about this forum is that lately a number of threads that have had "heaters" spark up were immedietly cooled down by fellow forum members.
That's great!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
What puzzles me is that if there is this flood of folks abandoning DC for DCC, then why can't I find a nice cheap gently used DC handheld control anywhere? Seems like they'd want to be selling that stuff off to finance another decoder.
I'm with others here - my new layout is about 9'x17' and will run two trains at once as a maximum in continuous running or only one if I'm doing more than just railfanning. I'll be the only operator 99% of the time. My old MRC Throttlepacks and some Atlas selectors have been and will remain all I really need (though a walkaround capability would be really nice).
Jim
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
I'm in the DC club, mainly because my layout isn't finished and I can only really run one train on it at a time.
But it's a matter of when, and not if, I will leave this club...Once my major trackwork is done, it's time to concentrate on getting a controller and installing decoders. DCC is one of the reasons why I'm in this hobby again. There's no tunring back, baby!
At least DCC locos are "backwards compatible" :) and can run on DC layouts.
I am a dinosaur, and I have no desire to evolve... in my hobby. At work we have DCS systems, computer systems, you name it. I understand it. Everything we make must be right or it costs us money, and everything we use to make it costs big bucks, so we don't want to waste it. It is not a hobby.
This is a hobby. It is not a religion, or politics ! Why does every disagreement have to turn into a point of honor or some such ? Lighten up.
When I had a layout, in fact the last two layouts, I ran DC, and had 3 MRC 2400s. When I build another one it will have the same things. I like playing with little HO steam trains, and making them run good, and making them look good. How I control them really just doesn't move me, as long as I can control them. I will probably go to DCC when the price drops to the point that it is worth it, to me. It ain't there yet. It ain't even close. Every time I think how I paid about $175 net for my last computer system, and see what it can do versus DCC, and how easy it is to do it, the whole pricing thing with DCC just ticks me off.
I had a bit of brass some years ago. I sold all of it but two (still have my first ever loco and an N&W streamlined K2), to finance newer purchases like BLI Class As, PCM Y6bs, BLI Class Js, P2K Class Ys, and P2K Berkshires, track, switches, etc. So far, I am not a bit dissatisfied. I got brass because that was the only way to get the prototypical steam locomotives I wanted. Times changed. My newer engines may not last as long as brass, but I think they are still going to last longer than I will. I have had to replace a gear. I realize I like working on them too, so that's okay. As long as NWSL is around I think I can manage.
All the above refers to me. As long as you like toy trains too, I am all for you. I do not feel an overpowering urge to educate you, or change you. I do not understand why anyone would prefer diesels over steamers, just exactly like a lot of you can't see why I like that old junk.
If I say 2 plus 2 equals 5, I am wrong. Feel free to tell me so. But, if I say I don't like green, don't tell me I'm wrong, and for God's sake don't try to change my mind, because I am right; I don't like green ! And just because you like green, don't take as a personal challenge. I am glad you like green. Someday, I may have to have some green paint for something, too. If I like eBay, and you don't, or vice versa; good. We both face less competition in our chosen marketplace. Don't tell me how to bid, and I won't tell you. Anyone who can't figure things out doesn't deserve to compete.
Have fun.
Well said, Tom. Let's keep things civil... it is all about the trains, so personally I don't care what system the guy next to me uses... for all I care, he can use a lil' shovel to load his live steam brassie full of coal!!! Remember, your layouts are YOUR layouts... Glad to hear that some peeps like DC and some like DCC. Both are great and personal taste is what it is about! CHOOO CHOOOO...
Brian
twhite wrote: Jim--not with me, you didn't fuel the fire. What you said is what a lot of us should think--that what works best for you is the answer for you. So--have fun training, my friend, that's what it's all about.Tom
Jim--not with me, you didn't fuel the fire. What you said is what a lot of us should think--that what works best for you is the answer for you. So--have fun training, my friend, that's what it's all about.
Ding! Grand Prize Winner!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Soo Line fan wrote: Well this is different, a thread dedicated to DC. What are you guys using for power packs? I have an old MRC Tech 2 2500 and 2400. For walk around I use a MRC 55 cab control. Jim
Well this is different, a thread dedicated to DC.
What are you guys using for power packs? I have an old MRC Tech 2 2500 and 2400. For walk around I use a MRC 55 cab control.
Jim--
I have an MRC Control Master 20 with the walk-around throttle and the 25ft. extension. Works very well for me, has plenty of power (plus a "Nudge" switch to get some of them started smoothly. Nice little unit. I've had it about five years and no problem whatsoever.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
jim22 wrote: I'd like to say my new layout is DC, but I can't. I even had a great walk-around throttle (homebuilt, and I even bought parts to make a second one). Unfortunately, I took one look at my layout and the number of blocks/isolation tracks and associated wires and switches I would need, and I ran screaming from the room ... right to my LHS where a nice NCE PowerCab was on sale. Of course, I have dumped quite a bit of cash installing decoders in engines that were fine on DC beforehand. I feel like I copped-out on the DC guys, but I will say I'm enjoying my DCC system. I should also point out that I'm pretty much a geek, so the whole programming thing is second nature to me. I think DC is cool, but I was having trouble thinking far enough ahead to get it right on my layout as I built it, and DCC is a little more forgiving on the planning stage.Hope I didn't fuel the fire - didn't mean to.Jim
I'd like to say my new layout is DC, but I can't. I even had a great walk-around throttle (homebuilt, and I even bought parts to make a second one). Unfortunately, I took one look at my layout and the number of blocks/isolation tracks and associated wires and switches I would need, and I ran screaming from the room ... right to my LHS where a nice NCE PowerCab was on sale. Of course, I have dumped quite a bit of cash installing decoders in engines that were fine on DC beforehand. I feel like I copped-out on the DC guys, but I will say I'm enjoying my DCC system. I should also point out that I'm pretty much a geek, so the whole programming thing is second nature to me. I think DC is cool, but I was having trouble thinking far enough ahead to get it right on my layout as I built it, and DCC is a little more forgiving on the planning stage.
Hope I didn't fuel the fire - didn't mean to.
tomikawaTT wrote: The only thing lacking is sound - which, with several locos running in an acoustically "bad" room, is something I can live without.Yes, I know that a pure DC loco can be jiggered to make noise. I can just see the onlooker reaction to Whoomf - chuff - chuff - chuff emenating from the subterranian depths when there isn't a single moving steam loco anywhere on the visible trackage of the layout... Thanks, but no thanks!Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September 1964)
The only thing lacking is sound - which, with several locos running in an acoustically "bad" room, is something I can live without.
Yes, I know that a pure DC loco can be jiggered to make noise. I can just see the onlooker reaction to Whoomf - chuff - chuff - chuff emenating from the subterranian depths when there isn't a single moving steam loco anywhere on the visible trackage of the layout... Thanks, but no thanks!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September 1964)
I can agree with that. Half the enjoyment of MR to me is the silence.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Chalk me up as one with an extensive roster, largely (but not exclusively) brass, most of which was new long before the advent of DCC. I also use a rather unusual variant of DC power distribution known as MZL, aided and abetted by automatic train stop, on a layout that, when somewhat more complete, will have a LOT of hidden staging.
The biggest advantage, to me, is that I'm not at the mercy of a microchip! Direct electrical connections, discrete resistors and clearly visible switch connections are much more to my liking.
The system I use has the advantage of being able to handle single-operator display running as well as multi-operator CTC operation where the major turnouts are controlled from a central panel, the dispatcher assigns track by powering it from a specific controller and the train crews are free to run their trains and throw minor turnouts without consulting "headquarters" or flipping power toggles. The only thing lacking is sound - which, with several locos running in an acoustically "bad" room, is something I can live without.
Cool.
Soo, I still have my MRC 2500. Excellent powerpack. When I get my Zephyr, I plan on using the "jump port" feature on it to connect the 2500 and use it as a second throttle.
I'm using GML throttles that are walkaround. I have had a few issues with them but overall pretty good. I like buying from local companies and this one is out of Lapeer, MI. Most of the issues I have had with the throttles are a result of running older open frame O scale motors in multiple units (all-nation F3's for any oscalers out there). I will say that the service is excellent and Gene the owner has been very helpful over the years.
I apologize for the sniper comment. Just my stupid sense of humor which translates very poorly over DSL.
Gappleleg:
I think it's what we feel comfortable with. I like to run trains. And I'm not a multi-tasker, so one or two (usually one) train is what I really like. I figure that if I can do it with DC and feel comfortable--then do it. If I run a mainline train through my mountains, I concentrate on that SINGLE train. If I want to make up a train in my yard, then I concentrate on THAT train. If I want to run a local with a lot of switching, then that's the train that recieves my full attention. I don't need the "Royal Gorge" whizzing by when I'm dropping off cattle cars at the mountain spur. I really like to concentrate on ONE thing at a time. That's what gives me the pleasure of running my model railroad, the concentration on THE TASK AT HAND.
Frankly, I think it's wonderful that fellow modelers like to run multiple trains IF THAT IS THEIR CHOICE. But to denigrate those of us in the hobby who prefer a more relaxed attitude seems to me to show a real lack of individual thinking or actual respect for ALL of us--themselves included.
To coin it another way: I'm a Catholic. Nothing about my personal beliefs makes me believe that everyone ELSE is going to Hell, for cryin' out loud! It's a personal form of approaching God, not the ONLY one.
Figure it from there.
el-capitan wrote: Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.BTW I would take 1 brass engine over 10 plastic any day. My most reliable engine is my SF 2-10-4 by sunset. I don't know what kind of cheap brass he is buying with parts falling off but I have never heard of that and I have brass from 5 different manufacturers.
Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.
BTW I would take 1 brass engine over 10 plastic any day. My most reliable engine is my SF 2-10-4 by sunset. I don't know what kind of cheap brass he is buying with parts falling off but I have never heard of that and I have brass from 5 different manufacturers.
Capitan,
Why are you adding to the flame war? Why help turn it into a DC vs. DCC war and Brass vs. Plastic? So far we have DCC Snipers and Dinosaurs. This started out as such a good thread.
Am I the only one here that can sit back and greatly appreciate the qualities of Brass, Plastic, DCC, and DC? I've only been modeling just under 3 decades and have seen great advances made in this hobby.
1. For DCC sound, I've read several times that brass locomotives are excellent units for it due to the great resonating qualities offered by brass.
2. Plastic locomotives have come such an incredibly, long way from the old Blue Box days of the 70s thanks to advances made in tool/die making as well as demands from modelers and railway historical societies. For diesels, realistic body and truck detailing that was once almost exclusive to brass locomotives, are now included "in-the-box" from manufacturers such as Atlas, LL Proto, and Athearn.
3. DCC, for many, has opened new horizons in the hobby. Locomotives can travel anywhere, without restrictions. Lighting effects, changeable sound effects, are possible. Has become so much more user friendly in the past 5 years.
4. DC. Still reliable and easy to use. With few minor exceptions, the quality of drives and powerpacks have greatly improved. Many DC units now come with a DCC decoder plug feature that makes it so much easier to convert to DCC.
GUYS.....Some of you are bickering over nothing because our scenario, with the exception of higher costs, is still WIN-WIN!
You buying?? If so I will take 2 GP39s by OMI. LOL! LOL!
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
twhite wrote: El-Capitan. Well, I suppose I SHOULD admit--I had the pilot of my Rio Grande 2-8-0 bust off about six years ago--BUST off, not FALL off. I won't tell you why or how, because it's too darned embarrassing and had nothing to do with the factory solder, but--funny little thing--instead of soldering it back on, I super-glued the little devil. It's still on, and I use it as the Deer Creek switcher. Can't even tell where it came off, not even with a microscope. Now, WHO says that brass isn't forgiving to work on, LOL? STILL don't know where he heard those stories! BTW, all I ever had to do with it was replace the open-frame with a NWSL can. The little devil was already perfectly balanced and sprung. I just wanted it to run slower. Creeps like a Washington State Banana Slug. I love it!Tom
El-Capitan.
Well, I suppose I SHOULD admit--I had the pilot of my Rio Grande 2-8-0 bust off about six years ago--BUST off, not FALL off. I won't tell you why or how, because it's too darned embarrassing and had nothing to do with the factory solder, but--funny little thing--instead of soldering it back on, I super-glued the little devil. It's still on, and I use it as the Deer Creek switcher. Can't even tell where it came off, not even with a microscope.
Now, WHO says that brass isn't forgiving to work on, LOL? STILL don't know where he heard those stories! BTW, all I ever had to do with it was replace the open-frame with a NWSL can. The little devil was already perfectly balanced and sprung. I just wanted it to run slower. Creeps like a Washington State Banana Slug. I love it!
I have tweaked a few of my locos. I add weight to all of them, not just the brass. The electrical connection from engine to tender on my Texas was done through the draw bar which didn't work too good so I added a wire for power, but that was all the tweaking necessary. Other manufacturers like Precision scale have had issues with poor drives that need to be replaced. I don't own any of those so I can't speak from experience. I have also been happy with the 2 F-45's I have from US hobbies. They still have the open frame motors. I would change them but they run perfectly, nice and smooth.
WWIII won't be started on this post, because if it gets out of hand I think the original poster can delete it. I too apologize, getting caught up in the heat of the moment caused a little tyrate by me, but you have to fend for what you know is right. Lets hope this post turns back to normal is kept in the road for the duration of its life, however short or long that might be.
-beegle55
el-capitan wrote: Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.
I'd say it hasn't started yet, and probably won't. The closest thing was posted by the guy who started the thread!
beegle55 wrote: If we didn't like or damned dinosuars, we wouldn't be singing their praises here would we??? Why do people constantley try to start stuff? And I agree with twhite, the cracked gear problem seems to arise in more posts than not. As for brass, well im not a brass man, never have and probably wont, so I can't comment on that. As far as good decoders, dual mode with more than four function sound enabled cost a little more than $11, now don't they?? I didn't say anything about being off topic, I said this was a place for us people who model using DC to talk about anything and everything, although maybe not clearly stated. In addition, I don't think their has been an off topic post yet, except for YOURS MODELMAKER!!!!!!!! I didn't start this post for flaming, so shut up and mind your own buisness, thanks. And yes, WE REALLY DO ENJOY OUR DINOSAURS!!! SO THANKS FOR THE CONCERN BUDDY!!!! Just my ... -beegle55
If we didn't like or damned dinosuars, we wouldn't be singing their praises here would we??? Why do people constantley try to start stuff? And I agree with twhite, the cracked gear problem seems to arise in more posts than not. As for brass, well im not a brass man, never have and probably wont, so I can't comment on that. As far as good decoders, dual mode with more than four function sound enabled cost a little more than $11, now don't they?? I didn't say anything about being off topic, I said this was a place for us people who model using DC to talk about anything and everything, although maybe not clearly stated. In addition, I don't think their has been an off topic post yet, except for YOURS MODELMAKER!!!!!!!! I didn't start this post for flaming, so shut up and mind your own buisness, thanks. And yes, WE REALLY DO ENJOY OUR DINOSAURS!!! SO THANKS FOR THE CONCERN BUDDY!!!! Just my ...
Thanks, Beegle, but oh, boy, I hope I didn't just start WWIII, LOL!
Actually, we who run our brass instead of 'collecting' it, spend an initial time 'tweaking' it, Depending on the loco, it could just mean grease on the gears and oil on the rods, up to taking the thing apart, re-balancing, re-weighting and re-motoring it to get what we want out of the little devil. But when it's to our satisfaction, it usually STAYS that way for years and years.
And yes, an 11-dollar decoder is going to give me about as much satisfaction as a portable I-pod versus a home entertainment system. If I want to go DCC (and I'm not putting it down, not by a long shot--some of the features just fascinate me), I'm going to go First Class. I've worked too hard on my hobby NOT to! But at my age, and with my now limited income, I just don't have that option., right now Ergo, I will stick with my DC.
I should not have flamed back at the previous poster, that is not my style, and I do apologize to everyone on the thread for doing so. But at my age, uninformed about ones particular talents and circumstances is NOT a reason to denigrate them.
modelmaker51 wrote: twhite wrote: I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life. I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass. Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!Tom You have some bad and incomplete information. There were only 5 models with the cracked gears, all of which were made by one manufacturer (LifeLike's Proto2000). Replacement gears were offered free of charge and are still available from Walthers, the new owners of Proto2000 and still free of charge. And this doesn't have anything to do with DC versus DCC.Good quality decoders are available for as little as $11 (NCE).Trusty, dependable Brass? Ha, ha, ha! LOL Most older brass is undependable and untrustworthy. Inadequate electrical pickups, poor motors, cold solder joints with parts coming apart or falling off altogether! Again, nothing to do with DC versus DCC.You keep on enjoying those dinosaurs.
twhite wrote: I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life. I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass. Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!Tom
I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life.
I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass.
Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!
You have some bad and incomplete information. There were only 5 models with the cracked gears, all of which were made by one manufacturer (LifeLike's Proto2000). Replacement gears were offered free of charge and are still available from Walthers, the new owners of Proto2000 and still free of charge. And this doesn't have anything to do with DC versus DCC.
Good quality decoders are available for as little as $11 (NCE).
Trusty, dependable Brass? Ha, ha, ha! LOL Most older brass is undependable and untrustworthy. Inadequate electrical pickups, poor motors, cold solder joints with parts coming apart or falling off altogether! Again, nothing to do with DC versus DCC.
You keep on enjoying those dinosaurs.
Thank you, I plan on enjoying those re-motored, re-geared dinosaurs that are running like Swiss Watches and have been doing so for the past forty years (and probably the next!), without parts falling off or the solder getting old (where exactly did you hear these stories? the Brothers Grimm?).
As to cracked gears, read the posts, once in a while. It's spread like wildfire from Proto to Genesis to BLI to PCM. All of which I have--and will soon have not.
And yes, it does have EVERYTHING to do with my choice of DC vs. DCC, if you live on a fixed income and have the prospect of adding decoders to 45or 50 locomotives.
Think before you write, my friend. It works better.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
All the above posts are excellent. DCC is probably the way to go if you are just starting to build a layout, but for us who have layouts that have been wired and setup for DC, and fleets that support our layouts, DC is the way (most affordable, easiest) way to remain. I like the idea of DCC, but Ill save it for another time. I enjoy the simplicity of DC, it keeps the fun in the hobby. I don't think sound has evolved enough for me to go DCC, which is what I would like to do it for.