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The 'DC' club

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Posted by Paul3 on Friday, March 16, 2007 6:02 PM

beegle55,
C'mon, man.  You don't think anybody has been flaming on this thread?  Back on Page 1, you wrote: "In addition, I don't think their has been an off topic post yet, except for YOURS MODELMAKER!!!!!!!! I didn't start this post for flaming, so shut up and mind your own buisness, thanks. And yes, WE REALLY DO ENJOY OUR DINOSAURS!!! SO THANKS FOR THE CONCERN BUDDY!!!!"  Telling people to "shut up" is usually considered "flaming" on most forums (not to mention the eight exclamation points and the entire sentences in all caps...with multiple exclamation points yet).

Not for nothing, but you can't be taken seriously as the victim of a flame war when you were spotted with a can of gasoline and a match earlier in the very same thread.  Wink [;)]

el-capitan,
I'll continue to take the manufacturer's specs of DCC products over the word someone who has very little use for DCC and isn't shy in saying so.  No offense, you understand.  But I have to assume that when a company offers a 5 amp product, it's good for 5 amps.  And unless you can come up with an example of a greater than 5 amp continuous load O-scale engine, then I will continue to point out that one can get O-scale decoders for about half of what you originally claimed.

I have never claimed to be an expert on DCC installations in O-scale.  I will lay claim to certain level of knowledge about DCC.  And I know that as long as your decoder amp rating is greater than the stall current of your loco, you won't "blow" the decoder (no matter the scale, no matter what you do to it after installation).  If you have an O-scale loco that pulls less than a 5 amp continous load (and less than a 10 amp peak load), than the DG583S is all you need for a decoder.  I don't have to be an O-scale expert to know that.

I don't have any protection from head-on collisions when I drive my truck down the road but yet I manage to avoid them.

Huh?

Again since you seem to have read all my posts you will notice that a helpful DCCer explained how block control could be done with DCC. Unfortunately it would require completely rewiring the blocks on my layout. Anything is possible with enough money and time.

Actually, it wouldn't require that much wiring for your layout.  Since you already have a centralized block control panel (your dispatcher's panel), all you'd do is run wire from your toggles to the BDL168 inputs, then run the BDL168 outputs to the blocks using the existing wires.  The specifics would change depending on how you wired your layout in the first place (the common return, for example), but it sounds like a simple installation.

$240 for block detection? really? Does it detect trains that are not moving? If there is a cheaper way of doing it please share but I was simply quoting one suppliers price that has a unit that is able to detect stopped trains. I never said this was the only way.

Um, of course it does.  Why wouldn't it?  Heck, the old Twin-T coils that MR helped bring into the hobby back in the, what?  1950's?  1960's?  Those old things could detect a train standing still.  The BDL168's sense a current draw across the block like the Twin-T's do.  So any motor, running or not, will detect.  Also, by adding a resistor or a light source to any rolling stock will also cause it to detect.  Jay-Bee even makes resister wheelsets in HO scale for just that purpose, although one could make them yourself if you wish.

What kind of detection system can't sense stopped trains?  Unless they don't have resistors or engines...but then without engines it's not really a train (by rule).

If all this on-screen stuff can be done with DCC then why havn't I seen it at my LHS? Again if you read the entire post I want all of this in a simple plug and play system. I never said it can't be done.

How many LHS's sell software?  My club uses Railroad&Co.  http://www.freiwald.com/  But there's also a free program called JMRI.  http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/PanelPro/PanelPro.html

I have issues with people who do not have the same experience as me in Oscale telling me I am wrong. Call it a flaw.

You are not wrong about O-scale and I never said you were.  However, you are wrong about certain things with DCC.

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Posted by MOJAX on Friday, March 16, 2007 5:44 PM
 beegle55 wrote:
 MOJAX wrote:
 beegle55 wrote:

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

This thread has been very interesting and thanks for starting it. When did you (beegle55) change your mind about DCC?

 

 

(I guess I'll try to get the thread back to what its suppost to be, instead of some people calling others "childish" by being "childish"...)

Hey MOJAX, I decided to stick with DC for now because of a limited budget becoming even more limited. I am getting my drivers liscense May 14, and I have put back most of my money into a savings account for the summer. Next summer I am planning on getting a job, so DCC might be of interest then. I like DC and DCC sounds really interesting as well, so I am open to all options of the hobby. Thanks for the post.

 -beegle55

I'll bet you can't wait until May 14'th! Drive carefully as there are a lot of idiots on the roads. 

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Posted by beegle55 on Friday, March 16, 2007 4:06 PM
 Soo Line fan wrote:

Hello, My name is Jim and I still use DC (polite applause). 

And now without further adieu, here are the top ten reasons I have not switched to DCC:

  1. I have 40 engines to change over. Motor isolation is not the issue, as the open frames have been replaced with NWSL and PPW can motors.
  2. I have a double track main. One train circles the layout and I switch with the other.
  3. It is not a club; I operate alone. 1-2 trains are plenty to run.
  4. Sound is annoying to me. I happen to like peace and quiet.
  5. My layout is pretty much finished, in regards to track and wiring. The supposed "complicated wiring" (whatever that is) has been completed.
  6. I want to see if another system comes out within the next 5 yrs. In the meantime the prices will drop.
  7. The cost of decoders and a good system is going to be substantial. My Scottrade account needs money more than the layout.
  8. The only time I touch a block is to do a cross over move or come out of the yard and engine terminal.
  9. I am not a jump on the bandwagon person or a sheep. Its my hobby, I will participate the way I choose, not the way others want me to.
  10. I am having a great time right now with my current system, that's the main reason for a hobby, is it not?

There, I feel better (End of DC anonymous meeting). 

Too funny....

Jim

 Hey Jim, you have a good list of reasons why you are in the DC club. I agree with number 6 alot :P, it seems like every time I make an investment into a piece of new technology, something else comes out that I want more... I guess that will always happen though. Anywho, I think it will be interesting in what develops over the next few years.

 -beegle55

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Posted by beegle55 on Friday, March 16, 2007 4:02 PM

Alright Antonio, sounds good to me. Smile [:)]

 -beegle55

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Friday, March 16, 2007 4:01 PM

I fully agree, Beegle.  I'm sorry I misunderstood your post and intent.

Yes, let's go forward. 

Take careBig Smile [:D]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by beegle55 on Friday, March 16, 2007 3:56 PM
 AntonioFP45 wrote:

Beegle,

 You're certianly not helping.  I thought we moved on, but I'll go ahead and reply here. 

If you read carefully, the "childish" remark refers to the poster's behavior itself, which indeed is very childish.  That's not rocket science.  

I don't invite any flaming posts at all.  YOU invited disagreement and discord when you make comments referring to "DCC Snipers".  Yet you imply that I'm a  flamer??   You're upset with me because I responded to your unprovoked statement.   Come on, Beegle! Are you serious?   When I screw up, I'm the first to apologize.  When I'm attacked, I will respond. If you read back over this thread my posts have been quite civil except when you made the "Flaming" post about DCC snipers and of course, Clang's flaming torpedo post.  The two of you are fellow modelers.....Yet, you chose to get nasty, bottom line.   ( Go figure Disapprove [V] )

If you take my "suggestions" about being civil as "childish" then so be it.  I'm a DC modeler that's switching over, so that's why this thread was interesting to me. 

Before accusing someone of an infraction or offense, please think about it and make sure you didn't do the same first.  

I hope this caps the head and we can cruise forward.

Peace and High GreensBig Smile [:D]

 

 

1) So what if we are being childish?? Do have to call the actions "childish," (which makes you look like the child in the first place with all the name calling.

2) You completely misunderstood the "DCC Sniper" gig. That was, I guess you could say, an inside joke started on the very first page of this thread way back when. If you had read from the beginning and had fully understood what I meant by "DCC Sniper's," this entire mix-up would have never happened. I'm not blaming you, just be sure you know what you are talking about from the beginning. I don't in fact blame you for the mistake, because I too skip to various parts of multi-page threads without reading ever single post word for word.

3)I didn't imply that you were a flamer. I don't think anyone has truely flamed on this thread yet, and hopefully they won't.

4) The DCC sniper post wasn't flaming, I and a few others at least thought of it as light humor associated with the beginning of this thread.

5)Why bring Clang into this? I understand that some flaming (Me and you might have different definitions of flaming) might occurred between you and him, but not on this forum, or this thread, so why are you even mentioning all of that?

6)Hmmm, nasty, bottom line?? Lack of a better term, maybe? And go figure, What the... never mind...

7)In conclusion, I didn't accuse you of anything, I just implied that your statements might be offensive to some. Do you seriously think I've been flaming on here?? That is the least thing on my mind right now...... Anyway, lets put all of this behind us and let the thread return to its usual broadcast???Headphones [{(-_-)}]

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Posted by el-capitan on Friday, March 16, 2007 3:05 PM

 Paul3 wrote:

clang,
You're trolling yet again.

el-capitan,
Atlas O locos are low amp engines for O scale, which explains why NCE's ATL-O decoders are only $40 ea.  But you still haven't explained decoders like the Digtrax DG583S...these can be had for as little as $52 ea. when bought in a 10-pack (at Tony's, otherwise, they are $56 ea. for one or $53 ea. for 4).  The DG583S has a 5 amp continuous rating with a 10amp peak, and they can control 8 different functions (for lights, etc.).  This decoder has been on the market for 4 years.  Do you have O-scale locos that can pull over 5 amps continuous, & over 10 amps peak?  If so, your point stands.  If not, then my point that you don't have to spend $100 per loco for DCC in O-scale is correct, and you are wrong.

I get my information on Decoders from several of my friends that have converted Oscale open frame locos to DCC. If all of them are wrong or could be getting a better deal than I appologize. But I will still take their experienced word over your inexperienced word.

 Paul3 wrote:

Shhh, don't tell anyone in my HO scale RR club, but I own three O-scale locos...  An Intermountain GP9 (with a Atlas FP7 drive), and two Weaver RS-3's (with P&D drives).  Not DCC...yet.  But that's the plan.

So you have no actual experience with owning or converting open frame motor O scale engines yet you come on here acting like an expert.

 Paul3 wrote:

You did say on the older DCC thread, in regards to collisions, "With the current DCC system there is no protection from this."  That sounds like "unavoidable" to me.  The fact is that there can be protection from collisions with DCC...it just takes more time and money to do so.

I don't have any protection from head-on collisions when I drive my truck down the road but yet I manage to avoid them.

 Paul3 wrote:

Why did you state that there is no protection from collisions with DCC when there can be?  Why did you state that block detection for your 1000 block club layout would cost $30,000 for when it can be done for $7,560 with DCC?  Or when you stated that your 30-block home layout would cost $1000 for block detection when it could be done for $240 with DCC?  Why did you imply that DCC could not offer Wi-Fi dispatching from your back yard, and not offer on-screen point and click throwing of track switches, and not offer on-screen occupancy?  (which can all be done with DCC right now) 

ALL of this taken completely out of context.

Again since you seem to have read all my posts you will notice that a helpful DCCer explained how block control could be done with DCC. Unfortunately it would require completely rewiring the blocks on my layout. Anything is possible with enough money and time.

$240 for block detection? really? Does it detect trains that are not moving? If there is a cheaper way of doing it please share but I was simply quoting one suppliers price that has a unit that is able to detect stopped trains. I never said this was the only way.

If all this on-screen stuff can be done with DCC then why havn't I seen it at my LHS? Again if you read the entire post I want all of this in a simple plug and play system. I never said it can't be done.

 Paul3 wrote:

If you have no interest in arguing this, you aren't doing a very convincing job of it.  Most times, when people have no interest in something, they ignore it.  Smile [:)]

I have issues with people who do not have the same experience as me in Oscale telling me I am wrong. Call it a flaw.

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Posted by Virginian on Friday, March 16, 2007 1:48 PM
I am at the age where someone calling me childish bounces off.  I wish.  I am DC for the same reason everyone is DC, or DCC, or whatever.  Because I choose to be.  If I decide to change, I will.  If I decide not to, I won't.  I think I am going to go make some tuna fish salad and watch some train videos.  Just because I want to.  And we're out of spinach dip. Grumpy [|(]
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Friday, March 16, 2007 12:54 PM

Peace and High GreensBig Smile [:D]

 

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, March 16, 2007 12:32 PM

 beegle55 wrote:

 Can't we just talk about the hobby from the viewpoint of DC power. Thats all I wanted this thread for, just to see who uses DC and what some of us DC users do to help our layout, and to discuss other things involved with our layouts.  -beegle55

Hello, My name is Jim and I still use DC (polite applause). 

And now without further adieu, here are the top ten reasons I have not switched to DCC:

  1. I have 40 engines to change over. Motor isolation is not the issue, as the open frames have been replaced with NWSL and PPW can motors.
  2. I have a double track main. One train circles the layout and I switch with the other.
  3. It is not a club; I operate alone. 1-2 trains are plenty to run.
  4. Sound is annoying to me. I happen to like peace and quiet.
  5. My layout is pretty much finished, in regards to track and wiring. The supposed "complicated wiring" (whatever that is) has been completed.
  6. I want to see if another system comes out within the next 5 yrs. In the meantime the prices will drop.
  7. The cost of decoders and a good system is going to be substantial. My Scottrade account needs money more than the layout.
  8. The only time I touch a block is to do a cross over move or come out of the yard and engine terminal.
  9. I am not a jump on the bandwagon person or a sheep. Its my hobby, I will participate the way I choose, not the way others want me to.
  10. I am having a great time right now with my current system, that's the main reason for a hobby, is it not?

There, I feel better (End of DC anonymous meeting). 

Too funny....

Jim

Jim

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Posted by beegle55 on Friday, March 16, 2007 11:51 AM
 AntonioFP45 wrote:
 clang wrote:

Antonio FP, isn't there anything else you have to do besides police this thread

You can always go help the ebayers maybe even get a life.Smile [:)]

Paul three, I posted a smiley so that makes it okay right Bow [bow]

Hello Clang,

I actually have a pretty good life.  I don't police anything. Bergie does that. Were you not the flaming poster on the Atlas forum? 

I enjoy posting and interacting with fellow railfans and model railroaders that are good and decent folks. Whether on the web, or face to face.    Hopefully you'll eventually get back into that category someday soon. Is there anything else that you do besides troll threads and disrespect fellow model railroaders with your childish, posts? 

BUT---  Unlike you, I do try to keep it encouraging and positive.  Exchanging info and opinions should be enjoyable.  

BTW: Flaming others without having been provoked is the equivilent of swimming in a cesspool full of garbage. Thumbs Down [tdn] It's saddening that you jumped in head first.  Why don't you shower the trashy attitude off and join in with the rest of us? 

Even with disagreements, the members here are a super good crew.  

 

 

Calling people childish isn't flaming???? This is a general disscusion forum with a general disscusion thread on it and its for general disscusion for DC users, which means your posts are welcome, however flaming is unappriecated. Your replys seem to lead to flaming, so why start them just to create problems? Can't we just talk about the hobby from the viewpoint of DC power. Thats all I wanted this thread for, just to see who uses DC and what some of us DC users do to help our layout, and to discuss other things involved with our layouts. I don't think you 'police' this thread, but you sure invite some pretty heated replies. Calling people childish isn't encouraging nor positive! And yes I agree, this forum has some great members that shine through all of our disagreements, so maybe this post is just another reply to disagree upon...

 -beegle55

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Posted by beegle55 on Friday, March 16, 2007 11:42 AM
 MOJAX wrote:
 beegle55 wrote:

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

This thread has been very interesting and thanks for starting it. When did you (beegle55) change your mind about DCC?

 

 

(I guess I'll try to get the thread back to what its suppost to be, instead of some people calling others "childish" by being "childish"...)

Hey MOJAX, I decided to stick with DC for now because of a limited budget becoming even more limited. I am getting my drivers liscense May 14, and I have put back most of my money into a savings account for the summer. Next summer I am planning on getting a job, so DCC might be of interest then. I like DC and DCC sounds really interesting as well, so I am open to all options of the hobby. Thanks for the post.

 -beegle55

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Posted by Paul3 on Friday, March 16, 2007 11:11 AM

clang,
You're trolling yet again.

el-capitan,
Atlas O locos are low amp engines for O scale, which explains why NCE's ATL-O decoders are only $40 ea.  But you still haven't explained decoders like the Digtrax DG583S...these can be had for as little as $52 ea. when bought in a 10-pack (at Tony's, otherwise, they are $56 ea. for one or $53 ea. for 4).  The DG583S has a 5 amp continuous rating with a 10amp peak, and they can control 8 different functions (for lights, etc.).  This decoder has been on the market for 4 years.  Do you have O-scale locos that can pull over 5 amps continuous, & over 10 amps peak?  If so, your point stands.  If not, then my point that you don't have to spend $100 per loco for DCC in O-scale is correct, and you are wrong.

Shhh, don't tell anyone in my HO scale RR club, but I own three O-scale locos...  An Intermountain GP9 (with a Atlas FP7 drive), and two Weaver RS-3's (with P&D drives).  Not DCC...yet.  But that's the plan.

You did say on the older DCC thread, in regards to collisions, "With the current DCC system there is no protection from this."  That sounds like "unavoidable" to me.  The fact is that there can be protection from collisions with DCC...it just takes more time and money to do so.

If you do not speak on subjects that you are not knowledgeable in, why did you state that it would cost you $1500 to decoder 15 O-scale engines when one could do so for only $786.25? (that's 15 DG583S decoders from Tony's)  Why did you state that there is no protection from collisions with DCC when there can be?  Why did you state that block detection for your 1000 block club layout would cost $30,000 for when it can be done for $7,560 with DCC?  Or when you stated that your 30-block home layout would cost $1000 for block detection when it could be done for $240 with DCC?  Why did you imply that DCC could not offer Wi-Fi dispatching from your back yard, and not offer on-screen point and click throwing of track switches, and not offer on-screen occupancy?  (which can all be done with DCC right now) 

BTW, I'm hardly "coming out of the woodwork".  I've been here a long time, even before there was a forum back in the mid 1990's (it used to be a guestbook). 

Oh, and so far, nobody has called you a "liar", I just said you were incorrect.  Being incorrect is not the same as being a liar.

If you have no interest in arguing this, you aren't doing a very convincing job of it.  Most times, when people have no interest in something, they ignore it.  Smile [:)]

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Posted by ShadowNix on Friday, March 16, 2007 10:31 AM

Hey all,

First, I want to say THANKS to all the people trying to keep it positive.  I am so impressed by those of you that have cab control, walk-arounds, etc. in non-dcc... I don't have a CLUE how to do this, but it sounds daunting and ambitious, so kudo's to you all. 

Second, I would say that a lot of people who do DCC (like me) do it because that is all (or most of) they know.  I grew up doing DC, took a 20+ year hiatus and then went back DCC, since that was the new cutting edge (to me...) and it seemed natural.  It also seemed "easier" with regards to track wiring, insulated vs. electro-frog, etc.  Little did I realize what fun installing decoders can be.... that all said, yes, I love DCC, but I understand why some do DC.   In fact, I will probably be making a DC test track (albeit short) in my staging yard.

Finally, to those trolling... come on, guys.  We are all in the same hobby having FUN.  I am enjoying some parts of this discussion, especially learning all the cool things you guys have done in DC (I wish my dad had done/taught me some of these!!!) 

Happy rails.

Brian

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Posted by ATSFCLIFF on Friday, March 16, 2007 7:51 AM

I have been modelling in N scale for over 25 years using the DC cab control. DC has served my needs then and now. Yes, I agree that there are advantages and disadvantages of both systems, and many times I pondered whether to convert to DCC. New technology is always enticing.

What changed my mind is the cost. I have a very large collection of engines and it will cost me a bomb to convert! That's not all, many of the older ones are not even compatible (unless you do some surgery to the frame) so, you can only insert decorders on the newer engines?? Not a good very proposition!

I have been using a pair of GML walkaround throttles for many years, they are good and reliable and will continue to use them for many more years. For newbies and retirees like me cost is an important factor when deciding on coverting to DCC.

Cheers, 

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Posted by mononguy63 on Friday, March 16, 2007 6:30 AM
 navygunner wrote:

 Sometimes I get a wild hair and push the cars around the tracks with a finger!Pirate [oX)]

Bob

Bob, just think of that as the ultimate in "digital" control!

That also sounds strikingly similar to several of my turnout controls...

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Friday, March 16, 2007 5:02 AM
 clang wrote:

Antonio FP, isn't there anything else you have to do besides police this thread

You can always go help the ebayers maybe even get a life.Smile [:)]

Paul three, I posted a smiley so that makes it okay right Bow [bow]

Hello Clang,

I actually have a pretty good life.  I don't police anything. Bergie does that. Were you not the flaming poster on the Atlas forum? 

I enjoy posting and interacting with fellow railfans and model railroaders that are good and decent folks. Whether on the web, or face to face.    Hopefully you'll eventually get back into that category someday soon. Is there anything else that you do besides troll threads and disrespect fellow model railroaders with your childish, posts? 

BUT---  Unlike you, I do try to keep it encouraging and positive.  Exchanging info and opinions should be enjoyable.  

BTW: Flaming others without having been provoked is the equivilent of swimming in a cesspool full of garbage. Thumbs Down [tdn] It's saddening that you jumped in head first.  Why don't you shower the trashy attitude off and join in with the rest of us? 

Even with disagreements, the members here are a super good crew.  

 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Virginian on Friday, March 16, 2007 4:23 AM
Even if decoders drop to $10 an engine for a full featured unit, that is $10 additional, per locomotive or other equipment, I do not need or plan to spend, so can we please stop with the "decoders are only $20, or $50, or whatever" remarks !  My ex-wife's standard of living cannot stand the hit.
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Posted by navygunner on Friday, March 16, 2007 2:31 AM

 I switch back and forth between a pair of MRC tech IV 280's and a Digitrax Zephyr on my N Scale layout.  What does that make me?

 I see the benefits of 4 individual throttles without assigning an address to each one in DC.  I flip switches to match polarity and power supplies to meet the needs of my trains.  I speed, brake and momentum match locomotives in a MU with DCC.  Each system has it's advantages and disadvantages. 

 I operate each control system on the same layout without any changes (other than which system is supplying power).  The MRC's are hooked up to a bunch of DPDT switches to 4 teminal boards that distribute power to the blocks, the Zephyr is hooked up through a DPDT switch to all of the blocks.  I am capable of and use both interchangably, and do so based on my mood.

 I've been running an M3 Yellowstone with a coreless motor and a Sound equipped DCC Challenger this evening on DC.  Tommorrow it may be a bunch of DCC'd SD70mac's and SD70M's or maybe The GS4 and USRA 2-10-2 on DC/DCC, Maybe the GP38's?  How about the DCC Trainmasters or H16-44's,  Maybe the CZ pulled by a DC set of PA/B/A's?  Maybe the DC N&W 608 and 611 will meet in Podunk, KY?

 Really, the only issue is when you come into the hobby.  If it's not time and cost effective to convert or go to DCC... That's cool.  If you have the time and money to go DCC that's cool too.  If you are just starting out and go either way, that's cool too!  It's a personal choice based on your unique needs.

 It's not mine or anyone elses place to tell anyone else what they should use.  Pick what you  feel comfortable with and go for it!

 I still run my 'legacy locomotives" on DC or DCC, I run my coreless motored locos on DC, I run my dropin/plugin decodered locos on DCC or DC.  Sometimes I get a wild hair and push the cars around the tracks with a finger!Pirate [oX)]

Bob

  • Member since
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  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 239 posts
Posted by MOJAX on Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:57 PM
 beegle55 wrote:

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

This thread has been very interesting and thanks for starting it. When did you (beegle55) change your mind about DCC?

 

 

Michael Click Here to view my photos at RailPictures.Net!

My Photos at RRPictures.Net: Click Here

  • Member since
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  • From: Warren, MI O scaler
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Posted by el-capitan on Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:22 PM
 Paul3 wrote:

Your reasons are your own for not switching to DCC.  That's ok.  But when you post those opinions based on incorrect facts and express them as the truth, that's when DCC users feel they have to correct you.  For example, your $100 per O-scale loco statements.  These were incorrect and have been that way for at least 3 years.

I think you would find very few pro-DCC users that would argue with you if you didn't post incorrect assumptions about DCC (like head ons being unavoidable, or prices being twice as much as they really are, etc.).  No one should argue with you if you say you'd rather spend the money on another loco.

You are the one that has the incorrect facts. Atlas O engines are low amp engines (<1 amp) because they run on can motors. Older locomotives such as all nation and US hobbies have open frame motors. They can pull over 2 amps. I know several guys with DCC who have experimented with many different decoders and the only ones that have proven effective cost over $80. If you want sound, lights, etc it is over $100. Just because a decoder is rated at 3 amps doesn't mean anything. 3 amps may only be good for 5 minutes of running. If you run it for longer it fries. This is based on what I have seen and no amount of your rhetoric will change that. Please make posts based on your knowledge and experience. Not assumptions. If you had any experience with 2 rail O scale you would know this.

I never said that head-ons where unavoidable with DCC, only more likely.

Every statement that I have made in this forum has been truth based on my experience and I do not speak on subjects that I am not knowledgeable in. I only wish that others could say that.

This is yet another classic example of me stating my opinion based on my past experience and a DCC person coming out of the woodwork to call me a liar. I knew this was going to happen the minute I saw this thread.

By the way, I take back the appology I made about my DCC snipers comment.

I have no interest in arguing this with you as my only reason for being here was to share ideas and experience with other modelers that have similar systems. It is unfortunate that I am unable to do this.

 

 Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:

Deming Sub Deming Sub

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:18 PM

Antonio FP, isn't there anything else you have to do besides police this thread

You can always go help the ebayers maybe even get a life.Smile [:)]

Paul three, I posted a smiley so that makes it okay right Bow [bow]
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:43 PM
 beegle55 wrote:

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

 

Really? What club?  Snipers at rest?  What a wonderful, and childish way to refer to your fellow forum members and modelers; isn't it? Thumbs Down [tdn]Disapprove [V]

Yes, hopefully all is well in your world of "model railroading". 

cheers Sigh [sigh]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:32 PM
 beegle55 wrote:

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

 

Though I am a DCC person I find all of this childish. There is room for both though I admit some DCC people can be overwhelming. No doubt if you are an insecure person, the DCC talk will bother you. Besides there is a forum under Model Railroad Forums for DCC. So those other people are just doing tit for tat.

I use Linux software and there are religous wars there also. Give it up. Imagine how much more modeling you can accomplish. If you are just a person who just likes to talk (old timer) about anything or just wants to be heard, then I guess this thread is for you. 

rich 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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    May 2003
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Posted by Adelie on Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:06 PM
I guess we should be jealous of the Garden Railroad guys. They do that now - radio control of battery operated engines.

If I were home where is has been in the 70's the last few days, I'd be jealous of the garden railroad guys.  But right now I'm working in Alaska where it is 1 below....I'm not jealous of anybody outside!

- Mark

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    February 2003
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Posted by MidlandPacific on Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:15 PM

There's no pleasing some people.

 When I first heard of DCC with a 99-loco limit, I remember thinking it was like one of those 999-year business agreements: just a way of setting a practical maximum that nobody would ever see. 

http://mprailway.blogspot.com

"The first transition era - wood to steel!"

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    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:52 PM

clang,
You're trolling again.

Brakie,
You are always going on about this "super system" that will come along and vanquish DCC.  Maybe, some day, something will replace DCC.  But will either one of us be alive to see it?  NMRA standards are not tossed aside so easily.  IIRC, you said on the old Atlas Forum that DCC would be replaced in 5 years...and that was at least 3 years ago.  So far, the only thing that's come out is MTH's DCS system, and that's not exactly taking the world by storm in HO scale.  The only other thing that's even rumored to be coming along is the so-called "3rd Generation DCC"...but note that's still NMRA DCC, and is supposed to be compatible with current DCC installations.  So far, it's not practical to beam enough energy through the air to make locos run, and battery tech hasn't leaped forward much.  Maybe mini-turbines, but can you imagine refueling your HO or N locos with something combustible?

I think we're stuck with power through the rails for the forseeable future until battery tech makes it possible to run an HO loco with a 14v, 1 amp load for at least 2 to 4 hours straight.

el-capitan,
1). Actually, you can get O-scale decoders for as little as $40 ea. at Tony's.  The NCE ATL-O decoder is made for Atlas O locos.  BTW, the DG383AR came out 3 years ago (4/04).

2). You used the "head on" collision as a reason to not switch to DCC.  I merely pointed out that "head ons" can be eliminated by various means with DCC.  I didn't say you should switch.

3). That's a good design.

Your reasons are your own for not switching to DCC.  That's ok.  But when you post those opinions based on incorrect facts and express them as the truth, that's when DCC users feel they have to correct you.  For example, your $100 per O-scale loco statements.  These were incorrect and have been that way for at least 3 years.

I think you would find very few pro-DCC users that would argue with you if you didn't post incorrect assumptions about DCC (like head ons being unavoidable, or prices being twice as much as they really are, etc.).  No one should argue with you if you say you'd rather spend the money on another loco.

selector,
Thanks.  Just so folks know, "Sharkman" over on the Atlas Forum is, at my guess, a very wealthy individual.  He apparently has the means to reproduce, in N-scale, most if not all of the Santa Fe Railroad.  His major complaint is that there is no DCC system that can handle more than 120 trains at once, nor can throw more than 2000 switches.  He's also a 25 year Electrical Engineer who feels that DCC should be compliant with electrical industry standards used, for example, by the military.  As such, his opinions are rather out of the mainstream for the hobby.  I've tried to point out that he is probably the only single person in the world concerned with the 120 loco limit, but he's rather adamant that DCC is a poor design because of it.  Sigh.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:51 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

DCC guys,

I started another thread so we can leave the DC guys alone.  Clearly it's almost impossible these days to open MR and not be bombarded with DCC info.  I doubt that we can add anything further to the wall of information out there already.

Folks will convert if and when they're ready, and not a moment sooner.  If Digitrax wanted to pay me is a recruiter, I'd be a little more aggressive, but I think by lecturing the DC folks we're not contributing to their enjoyment.

Good points all, and thanks for keeping it civil.  I'll depart this thread now, and I apologize for "crashing" the DC club!

Dave thanks for starting another thread, but hopefully it seems that there are a few modelers that have posted in the perspective that there is some type of "blurry" rift between DC and DCCers.

It's just so ridiculously strange.  There should not be any at all. Especially when remembering the "MTH" debates of 2004-05.  Many of the HO/N modelers here, whether DC or DCC, Brass or Plastic, Athearn or P2K...................... were united. 

Hopefully that "we're all modelers" attitude has not changed.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by beegle55 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:28 PM

Well put Jeff. I have always said that I would go DCC if I was just getting into the hobby, but the fact of the matter is that I am not, and yes, I'm happy were I'm at with DC. I don't think DCC is bad, I just think DC is what makes me happy right now, therefore the reason of my thread.

 -beegle55

Head of operations at the Bald Mountain Railroad, a proud division of CSXT since 2002!
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Almost Heaven...West Virginia
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Posted by beegle55 on Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:26 PM

I see a trend has started, and DCC'ers now have their own club, so the DCC snipers should be a rest for a while. All is well in my world of DC. Cheers!

 -beegle55

 

Head of operations at the Bald Mountain Railroad, a proud division of CSXT since 2002!

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