Hey to all of us remaining DC users. I thought I would start this post for a couple reasons that have me wondering. First, why are you still a DC user? Does DC satisfy your MRRing needs? When, if ever, to you think you might switch to DCC?
My answers: 1) Costs and kinks of the DCC world. 2) Mostly, would like to have independant control of the loco's thought w/o blocks. 3) Sometime after college or when I get a job.
-beegle55
P.S- Feel free to post anything and everything about DC in your MRRing world, news, updates, products!
DC satisfies my needs. I have two cabs (the second one would be for guests, I suppose) and each has an RF throttle from Aristo-Craft. They're intended for large-scale trains but work for any scale--all they do is regulate the level of voltage coming out of a powerpack and reaching the track.
With that wireless walkaround ability, I get all the performance I need. I don't find two-cab DC wiring to be difficult or expensive, so that isn't a factor.
I'd planned to go DCC, but I just don't see a great increase in performance for the trade-off in expense and effort (to install decoders), so I haven't done it. I'm not ruling it out, but for now, my resources go elsewhere.
I agree with you 110%. I don't think any wiring is too dificult once you use common sense and decode wiring diagrams. I have planned to go DCC as well, but I am figuring on doing it on my next layout, if that day ever comes. My entire roster still needs detailed, so installing decoders would be essential but so much more needs to be done before hand. Ill just have to wait and see. I am definatley not ruling it out either, its just another thing at the bottom of the pile.
Well I went from DC to DCC/Sound then back to DC. First on my industrial switching layout was a one engine operation and to be frank sound got on my nerves and the sound didn't sound quite right.
No..I have no plans as of now returning to DCC/Sound.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
This has been a sensative subject on this forum in the past. Watch out, the DCC snipers are watching. They are waiting for you to point out that DCC is not perfect and then they will jump all over you. Just a warning. All hail DCC!
I still run DC on my 2 rail oscale layout. I do not see myself going to DCC while this layout is still in operation. Here's why:
Wiring blocks is not difficult. Time consuming but not difficult. Now that mine is mostly done I really don't feel a need to leave block operation. Maybe on the next layout.
I like operating the layout on a CTC system. Block control lends itself very well to CTC. If I wanted to run on train orders I might reconsider DCC.
My operating sessions will consist of 4 separate operators. My layout consumes my entire basement and traverses through 3 rooms. During operating sessions I am usually the acting dispatcher I like the control that the blocks give me. I don't have to worry about head on collisons in a tunnel between 2 rooms because someone missed a red signal.
I currently have 12 locos and another 2 on order. I have heard that the decoders cost upwards of $100 per loco (for Oscale). That's $1,400 bucks that could either go to decoders or a new brass steam loco..... I'm sorry but if I had the money it would go to the new loco.
My dad also has 2 rail DC and I want him to be able to bring his junk over and run it as well.
I will be inheriting my dad's 25 locos some day.... another $2500 or 2 more brass steam locos. Not a tough decision at this point in my life.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Those snipers really keep good watch. Its not really the cost any more, maybe the initial shock, but after that it isnt too bad. I just simply think i dont need it and can put my money into more of the layout, not just the control.
I'm sticking with DC. First and foremost, the time required to install decoders in my large HO locomotive fleet is simply better invested in other activities. And while the cost of quality decoders has come way down (and will no doubt continue to drop), the cost of paying someone to install them really has not. I both cannot afford to pay someone to install them for me, and am also one of those "rather do it myself" guys.
But secondly, the only part of my layout that would really benefit from DCC is my two terminal areas, one of them of moderate size but the other quite small. THe track plan for the main line is such that DC cab operation is really just as easy as putting a new consist number into the DCC throttle.
Having said that, I firmly believe that anyone who is starting in the hobby today should go DCC. My loco fleet has been assembled over a period of twenty-plus years (not counting the half dozen locos from my layout when a boy and teenage), and converting them one-at-a-time as purchased would have been no big deal.
el-capitan wrote: This has been a sensative subject on this forum in the past. Watch out, the DCC snipers are watching. They are waiting for you to point out that DCC is not perfect and then they will jump all over you. Just a warning. All hail DCC!
Indeed we must pay proper homage, we cannot offend the chosen ones.
I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life.
I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass.
Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
All the above posts are excellent. DCC is probably the way to go if you are just starting to build a layout, but for us who have layouts that have been wired and setup for DC, and fleets that support our layouts, DC is the way (most affordable, easiest) way to remain. I like the idea of DCC, but Ill save it for another time. I enjoy the simplicity of DC, it keeps the fun in the hobby. I don't think sound has evolved enough for me to go DCC, which is what I would like to do it for.
twhite wrote: I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life. I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass. Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!Tom
You have some bad and incomplete information. There were only 5 models with the cracked gears, all of which were made by one manufacturer (LifeLike's Proto2000). Replacement gears were offered free of charge and are still available from Walthers, the new owners of Proto2000 and still free of charge. And this doesn't have anything to do with DC versus DCC.
Good quality decoders are available for as little as $11 (NCE).
Trusty, dependable Brass? Ha, ha, ha! LOL Most older brass is undependable and untrustworthy. Inadequate electrical pickups, poor motors, cold solder joints with parts coming apart or falling off altogether! Again, nothing to do with DC versus DCC.
You keep on enjoying those dinosaurs.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 wrote: twhite wrote: I'm sticking with DC. I've got a nice walkaround throttle, 'prototype' blocks and I run at MOST, two trains at once, something I can do pretty well with DC. Besides, I just can't see the expense of putting decoders into about 45-50 brass locomotives at this stage in my life. I've got some DC/DCC steamers, but I don't run them very much, and after hearing about all the 'cracked-gear' problems with the newer locos that have come out, I plan on selling them ASAP. Which leaves me with my trusty, dependable brass. Hey, I LIKE the Jurassic Era! It's still fun!Tom You have some bad and incomplete information. There were only 5 models with the cracked gears, all of which were made by one manufacturer (LifeLike's Proto2000). Replacement gears were offered free of charge and are still available from Walthers, the new owners of Proto2000 and still free of charge. And this doesn't have anything to do with DC versus DCC.Good quality decoders are available for as little as $11 (NCE).Trusty, dependable Brass? Ha, ha, ha! LOL Most older brass is undependable and untrustworthy. Inadequate electrical pickups, poor motors, cold solder joints with parts coming apart or falling off altogether! Again, nothing to do with DC versus DCC.You keep on enjoying those dinosaurs.
Thank you, I plan on enjoying those re-motored, re-geared dinosaurs that are running like Swiss Watches and have been doing so for the past forty years (and probably the next!), without parts falling off or the solder getting old (where exactly did you hear these stories? the Brothers Grimm?).
As to cracked gears, read the posts, once in a while. It's spread like wildfire from Proto to Genesis to BLI to PCM. All of which I have--and will soon have not.
And yes, it does have EVERYTHING to do with my choice of DC vs. DCC, if you live on a fixed income and have the prospect of adding decoders to 45or 50 locomotives.
Think before you write, my friend. It works better.
If we didn't like or damned dinosuars, we wouldn't be singing their praises here would we??? Why do people constantley try to start stuff? And I agree with twhite, the cracked gear problem seems to arise in more posts than not. As for brass, well im not a brass man, never have and probably wont, so I can't comment on that. As far as good decoders, dual mode with more than four function sound enabled cost a little more than $11, now don't they?? I didn't say anything about being off topic, I said this was a place for us people who model using DC to talk about anything and everything, although maybe not clearly stated. In addition, I don't think their has been an off topic post yet, except for YOURS MODELMAKER!!!!!!!! I didn't start this post for flaming, so shut up and mind your own buisness, thanks. And yes, WE REALLY DO ENJOY OUR DINOSAURS!!! SO THANKS FOR THE CONCERN BUDDY!!!! Just my ...
beegle55 wrote: If we didn't like or damned dinosuars, we wouldn't be singing their praises here would we??? Why do people constantley try to start stuff? And I agree with twhite, the cracked gear problem seems to arise in more posts than not. As for brass, well im not a brass man, never have and probably wont, so I can't comment on that. As far as good decoders, dual mode with more than four function sound enabled cost a little more than $11, now don't they?? I didn't say anything about being off topic, I said this was a place for us people who model using DC to talk about anything and everything, although maybe not clearly stated. In addition, I don't think their has been an off topic post yet, except for YOURS MODELMAKER!!!!!!!! I didn't start this post for flaming, so shut up and mind your own buisness, thanks. And yes, WE REALLY DO ENJOY OUR DINOSAURS!!! SO THANKS FOR THE CONCERN BUDDY!!!! Just my ... -beegle55
Thanks, Beegle, but oh, boy, I hope I didn't just start WWIII, LOL!
Actually, we who run our brass instead of 'collecting' it, spend an initial time 'tweaking' it, Depending on the loco, it could just mean grease on the gears and oil on the rods, up to taking the thing apart, re-balancing, re-weighting and re-motoring it to get what we want out of the little devil. But when it's to our satisfaction, it usually STAYS that way for years and years.
And yes, an 11-dollar decoder is going to give me about as much satisfaction as a portable I-pod versus a home entertainment system. If I want to go DCC (and I'm not putting it down, not by a long shot--some of the features just fascinate me), I'm going to go First Class. I've worked too hard on my hobby NOT to! But at my age, and with my now limited income, I just don't have that option., right now Ergo, I will stick with my DC.
I should not have flamed back at the previous poster, that is not my style, and I do apologize to everyone on the thread for doing so. But at my age, uninformed about ones particular talents and circumstances is NOT a reason to denigrate them.
Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.
BTW I would take 1 brass engine over 10 plastic any day. My most reliable engine is my SF 2-10-4 by sunset. I don't know what kind of cheap brass he is buying with parts falling off but I have never heard of that and I have brass from 5 different manufacturers.
el-capitan wrote: Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.BTW I would take 1 brass engine over 10 plastic any day. My most reliable engine is my SF 2-10-4 by sunset. I don't know what kind of cheap brass he is buying with parts falling off but I have never heard of that and I have brass from 5 different manufacturers.
El-Capitan.
Well, I suppose I SHOULD admit--I had the pilot of my Rio Grande 2-8-0 bust off about six years ago--BUST off, not FALL off. I won't tell you why or how, because it's too darned embarrassing and had nothing to do with the factory solder, but--funny little thing--instead of soldering it back on, I super-glued the little devil. It's still on, and I use it as the Deer Creek switcher. Can't even tell where it came off, not even with a microscope.
Now, WHO says that brass isn't forgiving to work on, LOL? STILL don't know where he heard those stories! BTW, all I ever had to do with it was replace the open-frame with a NWSL can. The little devil was already perfectly balanced and sprung. I just wanted it to run slower. Creeps like a Washington State Banana Slug. I love it!
el-capitan wrote: Wow! It took the DCC snipers 3 hours and 37 minutes to mount their offensive. What's wrong guys. Usually you are much more punctual.
I'd say it hasn't started yet, and probably won't. The closest thing was posted by the guy who started the thread!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
WWIII won't be started on this post, because if it gets out of hand I think the original poster can delete it. I too apologize, getting caught up in the heat of the moment caused a little tyrate by me, but you have to fend for what you know is right. Lets hope this post turns back to normal is kept in the road for the duration of its life, however short or long that might be.
twhite wrote: El-Capitan. Well, I suppose I SHOULD admit--I had the pilot of my Rio Grande 2-8-0 bust off about six years ago--BUST off, not FALL off. I won't tell you why or how, because it's too darned embarrassing and had nothing to do with the factory solder, but--funny little thing--instead of soldering it back on, I super-glued the little devil. It's still on, and I use it as the Deer Creek switcher. Can't even tell where it came off, not even with a microscope. Now, WHO says that brass isn't forgiving to work on, LOL? STILL don't know where he heard those stories! BTW, all I ever had to do with it was replace the open-frame with a NWSL can. The little devil was already perfectly balanced and sprung. I just wanted it to run slower. Creeps like a Washington State Banana Slug. I love it!Tom
I have tweaked a few of my locos. I add weight to all of them, not just the brass. The electrical connection from engine to tender on my Texas was done through the draw bar which didn't work too good so I added a wire for power, but that was all the tweaking necessary. Other manufacturers like Precision scale have had issues with poor drives that need to be replaced. I don't own any of those so I can't speak from experience. I have also been happy with the 2 F-45's I have from US hobbies. They still have the open frame motors. I would change them but they run perfectly, nice and smooth.
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
You buying?? If so I will take 2 GP39s by OMI. LOL! LOL!
Capitan,
Why are you adding to the flame war? Why help turn it into a DC vs. DCC war and Brass vs. Plastic? So far we have DCC Snipers and Dinosaurs. This started out as such a good thread.
Am I the only one here that can sit back and greatly appreciate the qualities of Brass, Plastic, DCC, and DC? I've only been modeling just under 3 decades and have seen great advances made in this hobby.
1. For DCC sound, I've read several times that brass locomotives are excellent units for it due to the great resonating qualities offered by brass.
2. Plastic locomotives have come such an incredibly, long way from the old Blue Box days of the 70s thanks to advances made in tool/die making as well as demands from modelers and railway historical societies. For diesels, realistic body and truck detailing that was once almost exclusive to brass locomotives, are now included "in-the-box" from manufacturers such as Atlas, LL Proto, and Athearn.
3. DCC, for many, has opened new horizons in the hobby. Locomotives can travel anywhere, without restrictions. Lighting effects, changeable sound effects, are possible. Has become so much more user friendly in the past 5 years.
4. DC. Still reliable and easy to use. With few minor exceptions, the quality of drives and powerpacks have greatly improved. Many DC units now come with a DCC decoder plug feature that makes it so much easier to convert to DCC.
GUYS.....Some of you are bickering over nothing because our scenario, with the exception of higher costs, is still WIN-WIN!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Gappleleg:
I think it's what we feel comfortable with. I like to run trains. And I'm not a multi-tasker, so one or two (usually one) train is what I really like. I figure that if I can do it with DC and feel comfortable--then do it. If I run a mainline train through my mountains, I concentrate on that SINGLE train. If I want to make up a train in my yard, then I concentrate on THAT train. If I want to run a local with a lot of switching, then that's the train that recieves my full attention. I don't need the "Royal Gorge" whizzing by when I'm dropping off cattle cars at the mountain spur. I really like to concentrate on ONE thing at a time. That's what gives me the pleasure of running my model railroad, the concentration on THE TASK AT HAND.
Frankly, I think it's wonderful that fellow modelers like to run multiple trains IF THAT IS THEIR CHOICE. But to denigrate those of us in the hobby who prefer a more relaxed attitude seems to me to show a real lack of individual thinking or actual respect for ALL of us--themselves included.
To coin it another way: I'm a Catholic. Nothing about my personal beliefs makes me believe that everyone ELSE is going to Hell, for cryin' out loud! It's a personal form of approaching God, not the ONLY one.
Figure it from there.
Antonio--
Why didn't you come on EARLIER, LOL?
Your posts always tend to set us back to what we were talking about originally, myself included (especially in this one!).
Thanks.
Well this is different, a thread dedicated to DC.
What are you guys using for power packs? I have an old MRC Tech 2 2500 and 2400. For walk around I use a MRC 55 cab control.
Jim
Soo Line fan wrote: Well this is different, a thread dedicated to DC. What are you guys using for power packs? I have an old MRC Tech 2 2500 and 2400. For walk around I use a MRC 55 cab control. Jim
I'm using GML throttles that are walkaround. I have had a few issues with them but overall pretty good. I like buying from local companies and this one is out of Lapeer, MI. Most of the issues I have had with the throttles are a result of running older open frame O scale motors in multiple units (all-nation F3's for any oscalers out there). I will say that the service is excellent and Gene the owner has been very helpful over the years.
I apologize for the sniper comment. Just my stupid sense of humor which translates very poorly over DSL.
Cool.
Soo, I still have my MRC 2500. Excellent powerpack. When I get my Zephyr, I plan on using the "jump port" feature on it to connect the 2500 and use it as a second throttle.