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MR reviews & censorship Locked

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  • Member since
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  • From: Pacific Northwest
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Posted by Don Gibson on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 5:16 PM

RULES ARE RULES.

Every country, city,  family, company. and publication has them. Like them or not.

Note to Lou Van H: 


 SEEMS It's always 'EDITORIALIZING' when you give it, but 'CRITICISM' when you get it.

I GUESS  Life's not fair.

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 5:04 PM

That's the diversity component of the hobby again, isn't it?

I imagine people come to this forum for all kinds of reasons, besides seeking advice. Do you think there are a few members who visit here for the camaraderie? What about those who enjoy showing their work here because they don't know anyone who gives a hoot? How many drop in during their workday for a quick chat with like-minded hobbyists? Maybe there're a few who visit here to keep themselves motivated in the hobby. And judging by the generous people who provide the advice you seek, there are more than a few who visit here because they enjoy helping others.

I can't think of any of the aforementioned reasons that preclude us from being polite to one another.

Lynda
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  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 5:03 PM
 lvanhen wrote:

 Your product reviews almost never say anything negative, even on products that are not so great. 

Can you give an example of a review that everyone agrees should have been negative but instead was positive or at least failed to be negative?   Otherwise we are just talking in the abstract here.

Heh heh I just thought of something.  Years ago and by that I mean the late 1950s and early 1960s, a lot of reviews in MR said that this or that product was good but seemed overpriced.  And we look at those prices now and we can hardly believe the comment.   A lot of comment in these forums is that this or that product is over priced and I wonder what we will think about that in 30 or more years. 

The problem is that so many products are not only over priced, they're sold out!

Dave Nelson

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  • From: Little Rock
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Posted by One Track Mind on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 5:02 PM

I'm not trying to cause trouble, just asking an innocent question, but if even the whiff of cursing is not allowed...which I'm OK with, btw - then why do we have this:  Censored [censored] and this: SoapBox [soapbox] available to us to use on the forum?

Sorry if I manage to get those symbols deleted from our choices, but it does kind of send mixed signals as to what is allowed if you ask me.

On another forum I belong to, (a rock music forum) a more liberal policy is used for cursing. But there is no getting around what the symbols and things mean....people might as well just use the real words.

And since there are minors here, and it is a family-oriented public forum, I have no problem with the no cursing rule, even though at times I find it hard to abide by. Ashamed [*^_^*]

oops: a personal pet peeve of mine...sorry I didn't notice someone already brought this up about the censored emoticons. Do we have a hypocrite emoticon?Wink [;)]

  • Member since
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  • From: Central Illinois
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Posted by rockythegoat on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 5:01 PM
 Midnight Railroader wrote:
 Lynda wrote:

What has caused me a double take is a surprising amount of intolerance, competitiveness, rudeness, and outright arrogance. For a forum dedicated to a hobby, the number of these kinds of posts confounds me.

Agreed.

I agree with both of you.

President and CEO Lake Superior Railway & Navigation
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    February 2002
  • From: Wisconsin
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Posted by MRTerry on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 4:56 PM

"In my opinion the best solution would be a database of models by scale that could be started with a MR review and then members add their own findings and solutions to problems, but again it would have to be moderated to prevent any possibility of unfair trashing of a model."

 

That's such a good idea that we already have a database like that, including reader comments. It's at www.modelrailroader.com

Thanks for reading MR,

Terry

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Paris Junction
  • 247 posts
Posted by 1train1 on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 4:52 PM
How about limiting the number of 'chat restaurants' opening up and stick to the trains. This forum is going to turn into a bad strip mall of cafe's - censor that. I (along with numerous others) come here for guidance and help from you all.
Paris Junction Mile 30.73 Dundas Sub Paris, Ontario http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/ppuser/3728/cat/500
  • Member since
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  • From: Prescott, AZ
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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 4:41 PM
 Lynda wrote:

What has caused me a double take is a surprising amount of intolerance, competitiveness, rudeness, and outright arrogance. For a forum dedicated to a hobby, the number of these kinds of posts confounds me.

Agreed.

  • Member since
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Posted by ProtoWeathering on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 4:39 PM

Why were at least 6 or 7 other "negative" replies also deleted?

Because they can.

If you don't like how the forum is run, I'm sure Bregie could point you to the way out. 

  • Member since
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  • From: northern nj
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Posted by lvanhen on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 3:52 PM
 lvanhen wrote:

OK, Watch this post dissapear!  A reply I made to "What happened to the MR product reviews"  was deleted because "we do not swear on the forum"!!!  I just revisited the subject and found:

1.  I did not swear - I used Censored [censored] and a few letters with ** between or )*&^$*& - I have seen much worse in the forum!

 2.  Not only my reply was deleted, but EVERY NEGATIVE REPLY HAS BEEN DELETED!!!!![censored]

3.  This is more than censorship of language - it is censorship of opinion!!!

 4.  Bergie, I know it's your forum, but it's the member's also.  Your product reviews almost never say anything negative, even on products that are not so great.  Are we required to shut up about something we don't agree with too?

Louis Van Hentenryck

lvanhen@msn.com

PS.  Any members that have had similar replies deleted or agree with this post can e-mail me at the above address

 

Why is Censored [censored] in the smileys?

Why were at least 6 or 7 other "negative" replies also deleted?

Disgusted!

Lou V H Photo by John
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 3:34 PM

I'm somewhat new here; so, I've spent quite a lot of time reading older threads. I've found surprisingly little use of potentially offensive language. What has caused me a double take is a surprising amount of intolerance, competitiveness, rudeness, and outright arrogance. For a forum dedicated to a hobby, the number of these kinds of posts confounds me. Over the years, I've gotten to know quite a few model railroaders personally, and I've never found them anything but patient, kind, gentlemanly, and generous to a fault. You can see how many of the posts found here stand in marked contrast. Were I seeking to portray a positive image of model railroading for our young, I'd be far more concerned about checking attitudes at the door than policing language. But, again, that's just me.

Lynda
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 3:11 PM
 Lynda wrote:

I don't want to sound like a prude, but I do believe it's possible to convey your maternally carnal opinions without the use of blasphemous assignations, references to peristaltic products, or male canine pups. But that's just me. Headphones [{(-_-)}]

By the way, can someone define "bad language?" Does it constitute words that aren't heard every night on primetime, non-cable TV? Or words banned from the music our young ones listen to?

Curious minds want to know.

Lynda

I agree that a definition would be useful, but it then tends to limit the freedom of the host if and when he/she opines that the language of concern is decidedly out of bounds.  It is best to use a general term, and to then make a claim that the contrary language in question meets their definition.  Humans are always looking for loopholes, and the more specific definitions become, the easier it is to find a way around them.  Keep it vague or general, and then wave the imperious hand of inclusiveness when undesired language appears...undesired to them, that is.

I would do the same if it were my forum.

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:50 PM
In a guest/host relationship, and that is what this forum is, the host is expected to be gracious and tolerant even though he can "throw you out". The guest is expected to be on best behavior and be courteous and appreciative. Ed
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:46 PM

I don't want to sound like a prude, but I do believe it's possible to convey your maternally carnal opinions without the use of blasphemous assignations, references to peristaltic products, or male canine pups. But that's just me. Headphones [{(-_-)}]

By the way, can someone define "bad language?" Does it constitute words that aren't heard every night on primetime, non-cable TV? Or words banned from the music our young ones listen to?

Curious minds want to know.

Lynda

  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by MAbruce on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:06 PM

This is not a publicly owned site.  Once you post here, the ownership of the content shifts to Kalmbach.  Therefore you can't whine about censorship because you no longer have any claim of ownership to whatever you posted.  It's their site and they can run it however they wish.  That's what everyone agreed to when we all signed up!

So be careful about what you post.

  • Member since
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  • From: Salisbury, England
  • 420 posts
Posted by devils on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:51 PM
They added new restrictions in the forum guide that included banning stars etc to censor bad language as it's still obvious to the younger readers what's meant.
Being very negative in a review just tends to mean a manufacturer ignores that magazine and doesn't submit models for review any more, it's happened with one mag over here in the uk that started a war with Bachmann.
The more constructive review criticisims may list the faults and suggest how to sort them to put people in the picture to make an informed decision as to whether they can live with it or add detail.
Manufacturers respond best to constructive critique from magazines they trust and respect, so yes it is a little cosy but we do the same with our friends if they foul up rather than always being blunt about their failings.
If you want a balance read the MR review and then wait for people on the forum to get their pre-orders and see what they think. You may not be the first with a new model but the way they produce batches you'll only have to wait a short while for a new numbered version.
I've found MR reviews to be fair on the whole, I've also had problems with locos that have shown up later but these wouldn't have been apparent in a quick review.
In my opinion the best solution would be a database of models by scale that could be started with a MR review and then members add their own findings and solutions to problems, but again it would have to be moderated to prevent any possibility of unfair trashing of a model.
Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:42 PM

Swearing is swearing.  Putting a few %$*& in place of obvious letters makes it no better.

As for reviews, have you ever based a purchase decision on something you read in a magazine review of any type?   I cant say I have although I read them

 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Georgia
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Posted by soumodeler on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:41 PM

And I quote:

- No swearing or foul language. And we don't care if you use symbols to mask the words. The meaning is still conveyed and we don't want it in our forum. Please keep in mind that we have readers of all ages. This isn't a tavern. 

Right off the page "Our forum policies, including no advertising" at:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/974532/ShowPost.aspx 

soumodeler --------------- The Southern Serves the South!
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Posted by selector on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:36 PM

He who pays the piper calls the tune.  Bergie pays the piper here, representing a large publisher, so he calls the tone for the exchanges permitted here.  Doesn't get much simpler than that.

It might be useful, though, for the rules to be altered to reflect that even the suggestion of profanity, whether expressed or implied, is forbidden on this forum.  That way, even the odd key stroke pattern representing colourful language will be considered verboten, and we would all know better.

  • Member since
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Posted by SOU Fan on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:28 PM
Sign - Ditto [#ditto]
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  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:27 PM

From my experiences at the club with certain locomotives that MR had  reviewed has been spot on.I see a lot of forum reviews that is off compared to my experiences at the clubs as well..

So and IMHO the BEST review is the one YOU make based on first hand observations and test runs just like its been done in the years past.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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MR reviews & censorship
Posted by lvanhen on Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:08 PM

OK, Watch this post dissapear!  A reply I made to "What happened to the MR product reviews"  was deleted because "we do not swear on the forum"!!!  I just revisited the subject and found:

1.  I did not swear - I used Censored [censored] and a few letters with ** between or )*&^$*& - I have seen much worse in the forum!

 2.  Not only my reply was deleted, but EVERY NEGATIVE REPLY HAS BEEN DELETED!!!!![censored]

3.  This is more than censorship of language - it is censorship of opinion!!!

 4.  Bergie, I know it's your forum, but it's the member's also.  Your product reviews almost never say anything negative, even on products that are not so great.  Are we required to shut up about something we don't agree with too?

Louis Van Hentenryck

lvanhen@msn.com

PS.  Any members that have had similar replies deleted or agree with this post can e-mail me at the above address

 

Lou V H Photo by John

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