The "N" Crowd

[cpeterson]

How did we fall to page 4.

Hyun, sorry I can't be of help on any of those questions, but maybe someone will be able to answer with this little bump to the front of the forum.

I finally have all but 30 inches on one track, of my staging yard in place.  I am within 14 feeder wires of finished with the track wiring, and then on to the part of the hobby I think I hate most.  I hate the underlayout wiring.  I also hate installing tortoise switch machines and that will be done probably befor any of the wiring gets finished.

I'm still contemplating adding occupancy detection.  Luckily I noticed an article on it in MRR, but have not been able to read it yet.  I think it will be crucial to having the yard work properly, but that adds in the next logical step which would be turnout control with the DCC setup, all of which adds a lot of cost that I don't know I'm ready for.

I'm also thinking about adding ballast to my staging yard to help keep everything glued down well and aligned.

Hope everyone is doing well and that your modeling is going well.

[pcarrell]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  I didn't notice your post any earlier.  My bad!

1) Why is the "real" railroad called "prototype"?  My understanding of that word, until a few weeks ago (when I started reading up on the railroad stuff) was something that was first in its class, or a new example of something, not a real-life or historical equivalent of something miniaturized.

You actually hit the nail on the head with the first definition.  The real railroads (prototype) came before model railroads and are therefore the example, or prototype, for our modeling.  So said another way, the prototype is the original on which something is based or formed, in this case, our model trains.

2) I've been reading up on the importance of cleaning the track.  I understand that oxidized nickel-silver will still conduct electricity, whereas oxidized steel won't.  Is it still necessary to periodically clean nickel-silver track?

Yes it is.  Dirt and grease, oil and crud, all build up on the tracks and they reduce the connectivity of the electricity to the locomotive.  Think of it this way; if the place where the loco's wheels contact the track to trasmit the eletricity from the rail to the motor is dirty, then that impedes the signal, right?  This means that the loco's motor doesn't get a clean strong signal.  This will make it so that the loco will probably run poorly, or kind of "herky-jerky", instead of smoothly.  To ad insult to injury, our N scale loco's don't weigh much, so they can't cut down through the dirt buildup like a heavier loco would to get the clean signal.  Our loco's will tend to ride up on that cushion of dirt a lot sooner then a heavier loco would.  Does that make sense?  

3) On the subject of using masonite pads under a car to clean the track:  A carpenter at work (I work in Facilities Management department at a university, although I'm not a tradesperson) gave me a scrap piece of tempered masonite.  Is this the same thing as track-cleaning masonite?  I've cut it down to size (to fit an HO car) and beveled the edges, but it doesn't look very convincing:

I've not used masonite for this, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.  I generally use a rag with a bit of alcohol on it and then finish up with a bright boy cleaner.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Philip, great explanations, especially about the necessity of keeping track clean.

I'm eagerly waiting for my LL GP20 starter set to arrive--should be sometime middle of this week.  I've also been reading and reading and am itching to buy more stuff--mainly extra track (flex-track and Power-Loc adapters) and buildings--but am going to hold off until I get the set and have a chance to set it up.  Gaaahhh... so hard to exert self-control...

[pcarrell]

Play with the set a bit and learn what works good about it and what needs improvement.  Then you'll have a way to make your hobby dollars really work for you!

[Anonymous]

All right, got my first N scale set today, the Life-Like Freight King #7523 Union Pacific, from Walthers.  Ordered it last Thursday, it shipped on Friday from Wisconsin, and got it today in California.  That's pretty fast shipping!

Those of you who have been enjoying this hobby for years will have to excuse my newcomer's exuberance and enthusiasm.    Not to mention my praise for what may very well be, in terms of today's N scale standards, a mediocre product.  This is all new to me!  And, who knows, maybe there'll be other newcomers down the road who may find this useful.

I've been doing a LOT of reading the past month or so since I decided to get into model railroading hobby, and if there's a common theme I've found everywhere, it's the advice given by the majority of posters to avoid starter train sets and to put together quality components yourself.  Well that might make perfect sense for those who know what's what in the hobby, but for us newcomers, it's a bit too overwhelming.  So, I decided to get a starter set, the Life-Like set:

In addition to the GP20 engine, it came with four freight cars, a caboose, enough nickel-silver Power-Loc track pieces to make 21" x 27.5" double ovals (it includes a left- and right-hand manual switch tracks), two N scale building kits (country store and chapel), four trees, and a bunch of street signs, all for $92.

Now, I've handled precision kits and miniatures before, coming from mlitary modeling background and also 1/700 scale ships with PE parts.  So I'd like to think that I'm not entirely without discerning eyes when it comes to checking out replica models.  That said, I'm very impressed with the set.  The engine, and the freight cars, are individually packaged in their own clear acrylic cases, like this (click to view larger versions):

I'm just very impressed with the detail present on such an entry-level engine, as you can see from the following pictures (click to view larger versions):

I don't really know at this point to be able to tell whether this is a quality engine or not, but it runs very smoothly.  At the slowest speed setting, pulling all four cars and the caboose, it took the engine 3 minutes and 56 seconds to complete one lap of the 21" x 27.5" loop, without stalling a single time, and at all times moving smoothly (got it on a video clip). 

The details on freight cars seem pretty good, too.  Check out the lettering on this car (a reefer?):

... and the working headlight, while not too bright, lights itself and the car numbers up nicely: 

If this kind of quality is what most experienced modelers advice against buying, then the "quality" engines and cars must be superb, indeed!  The only part of the set I'm not too crazy about is the blue power pack/throttle controller.  It's a single dial that controls both forward and reverse movements.  I much prefer the basic Bachmann controller that came with my HO Thomas Tank Engine set--the dial is much smoother and easier to control than the Life-Like model.  No big deal, as I was planning on getting a MRC Railpower controller anyway.

[R. T. POTEET]

Those of you who have been enjoying this hobby for years will have to excuse my newcomer's exuberance and enthusiasm . . . . . . . . . .

Hyun, let me welcome you to the forum and to model railroading; my course through this hobby parallels yours - I modeled ships before I got interested in the steel highway.

You will never hear anything from me disparaging your exuberance and enthusiasm for this hobby; I have been modeling since 1962 and I wish today that I exhibited that unbridled thrill that I felt those forty plus years ago.  I certainly hope that ten years down the road that exuberance and enthusiasm will not have faded into boredom!!!

. . . . . . . . . . I don't really know at this point to be able to tell whether this is a quality engine or not, but it runs very smoothly.

This GP20 enjoys a fairly high reputation; its introduction by Life-Like several years ago was the beginning of their transition to a more scale environment.  Several members of my N Scale club own them and consist them in three and four unit lash-ups.  I would probably have hesitated to recommend that you go with a train set as an introduction to the hobby but you did pick a good starting point!!!

[n2mopac]

Hey guys, how many of you subscribe to or read N Scale Railroading? I subscribed for a while when it first came out. It wasn't very well put together then, but I thought I had potential. I let the subscription lapse after 2 years thinking I would check it out in a few years when they work out the kinks and get a little broader base. Well a few years have passed and I'm wondering how the mag is now. My (only) LHS doesn't carry it so my only option is to subscribe, but I thought I'd get a few up-to-date opinions first.

Ron

[cpeterson]

I think N scale railroading is a great mag.  i think they do a good job of coverage from entry level through more advanced model railroading.  Some issues are hit or miss but they are very dependent on submissions from modelers, so some issues are really well done, and some a little sparce.  I've subscribed for several years now and have enjoyed it.

[Dave Vollmer]

Hey guys, how many of you subscribe to or read N Scale Railroading? I subscribed for a while when it first came out. It wasn't very well put together then, but I thought I had potential. I let the subscription lapse after 2 years thinking I would check it out in a few years when they work out the kinks and get a little broader base. Well a few years have passed and I'm wondering how the mag is now. My (only) LHS doesn't carry it so my only option is to subscribe, but I thought I'd get a few up-to-date opinions first.

Ron

I read it.  It's good!  In fact, I'm working up a potential article on my layout for it.  MR's photography standards are beyond my reach, so I'll go with NSR.

Besides, NSR (and N scale Magazine) fill the wide gaps that MR leaves in our scale.  So it's good to support them.

As bad as we N scalers have it in MR magazine, how about those poor S scale folks?  That's why they have their own magazines too.

But I'll say this...  For N scale being the second most popular scale, I'm still unhappy with the balance in the typical issue of MR.  Some issues get it right, but most don't.

[pcarrell]

Hyun,

It looks like a decent starter set.  Glad you're having fun with it.  You can use the Bmann controller with the LL stuff if you like it better.  Just hook up the wires and go.

n2mopac,

I like the mag pretty well.  Like all mags, it's a little hit and miss as to whether I'm interested in an article or not, but thats OK.  At least it's all scale specific.

[n2mopac]

Some of you probably read this in another thread, but since it is N scale specific I thought I'd tell it here too.

I recently got more than I expected out of an ebay auction. I bought an Atlas late-model N scale loco on ebay. It was advertised as used without the original box but otherwise in excellent condition. Being well documented photographically and having a great price--under $45--I couldn't resist. I won the auction and awaited my item. When it arrived it looked great, no noticable damage or wear on the wheels. I immediately thought about DCC conversion, so I pulled the shell off to inspect the light board and what do I see but a Lenz decoder already installed! WOW!!! The seller was one of these second had dealers who buys up collections cheap an auctions them off. Probably had no idea what he had. I put it on my programming track, read the decoder address as default 03, changed the address to the road #, then tested it on the main. It runs like a new one. Infact, I don't think its been broken in. I figure I got about $145 worth of loco and decoder for about $40. Life is good! " border="0" width="15" height="15" />

Ron 

[Anonymous]

Hyun,

It looks like a decent starter set.  Glad you're having fun with it.  You can use the Bmann controller with the LL stuff if you like it better.  Just hook up the wires and go.

Philip,

The Bachmann wire has a plastic connector built into the end that connects to the rerailer.  Is it just a matter of cutting that off and connecting individual wires to the Life-Like rerailer that has two screw-down connectors?  I'll of course check the power packs and make sure the output is similar, and use a multimeter as well.

Speaking of which, when I get a MRC Railpower or some such power pack, will it come with the proper connector to attach to the Bachmann EZ track rerailer?

And on a different subject, everyone, please take a look at this product:

http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/433-7810 

It's a Life-Like Power-Loc remote switch.  The track part of it looks identical to the remote switch that came included in my starter set, but the starter set did not include the three other pieces (what looks like an on-off switch and two sets of wires).  What do they do?

Thanks again, all. 

[mls1621]

Hyun,

Your starter set probably came with manual turnouts.  The one shown in the picture is a remotely switched, powered turnout. 

The switch shown would mount to your table and through the wires move the switch points.

It would require a feed from your power supply for the solenoid mounted along the side of the turnout.  The switch motor looks very much like that used on Atlas turnouts.

[Anonymous]

Hyun,

Your starter set probably came with manual turnouts.  The one shown in the picture is a remotely switched, powered turnout. 

The switch shown would mount to your table and through the wires move the switch points.

It would require a feed from your power supply for the solenoid mounted along the side of the turnout.  The switch motor looks very much like that used on Atlas turnouts.

Mike,

Thanks for the quick reply--appreciate it.

So, just to clarify, the electrical feed for this turnout would only power the switch points, right?  In other words, it wouldn't be helpful for isolating the siding and creating a block and controlling it as a single on/off SPST switch, right?

[mls1621]

Hyun,

Your starter set probably came with manual turnouts.  The one shown in the picture is a remotely switched, powered turnout. 

The switch shown would mount to your table and through the wires move the switch points.

It would require a feed from your power supply for the solenoid mounted along the side of the turnout.  The switch motor looks very much like that used on Atlas turnouts.

Mike,

Thanks for the quick reply--appreciate it.

So, just to clarify, the electrical feed for this turnout would only power the switch points, right?  In other words, it wouldn't be helpful for isolating the siding and creating a block and controlling it as a single on/off SPST switch, right?

You're correct, you'd have to isolate the siding with insulated rail joiners and use a SPST switch to control track power

[Anonymous]

Thank you again!

[pcarrell]

Philip,

The Bachmann wire has a plastic connector built into the end that connects to the rerailer.  Is it just a matter of cutting that off and connecting individual wires to the Life-Like rerailer that has two screw-down connectors?  I'll of course check the power packs and make sure the output is similar, and use a multimeter as well.

Speaking of which, when I get a MRC Railpower or some such power pack, will it come with the proper connector to attach to the Bachmann EZ track rerailer?

Yup!  Snip them wires and hook her up!  It'll go just fine.  I'd leave a little wire on the Bmann plastic connector piece and throw on some connectors like this on the wire ends, and do the same with a piece of wire for the LL piece too, and then it'll all be quickly interchangable.  You can mix and match to your hearts content!  Just make sure you put all male or all female ends on the track side, and vice-versa on the power pack side and you're good to go!

[Anonymous]

Again, thank you!  You guys have been great, answering all my questions.  There's more coming... 

[pcarrell]

Again, thank you! 

No problem!

You guys have been great, answering all my questions. 

I try, but the rest of these guys are the real experts.

There's more coming... 

Of that, I have no doubt!  Bring it on!  We eat this stuff up!

[JMB]

N-Scale Locomotive Suggestions Needed!

Layout under construction. First DCC set-up - Digitrax Zephyr in the unopened box.

I have only DC locos from many years ago & would like to pick up a 'test' locomotive while I am building this layout in order to check trackwork etc. I am a very slow worker at this - not enuff time to devote to the hobby what with a job, bills to pay etc. & would also just like to get at the running side of things with DCC.

Will be modelling the transition era between steam & diesel.

Appreciate any suggestions as to a good (also inexpensive/ economical) choice for that first DCC locomotive.

Love this thread!

...John

[mls1621]

N-Scale Locomotive Suggestions Needed!

Layout under construction. First DCC set-up - Digitrax Zephyr in the unopened box.

I have only DC locos from many years ago & would like to pick up a 'test' locomotive
Will be modelling the transition era between steam & diesel.

Appreciate any suggestions as to a good (also inexpensive/ economical) choice for that first DCC locomotive.

Love this thread!

...John

 

John,

You can use one of your DC locos to test the track work.  It will run on address "00".  The sizzling noise is normal when DC locos are standing still, it goes away when they speed up.  It's just the motor reacting to the out of phaze signals in the track. 

For a good first DCC loco, go online to Caboose Hobbies www.caboosehobbies.com and see what they have available from Atlas with a decoder installed.  They have good pricing for decoder equiped Atlas products and they look and run great.  I just got an SD 24 from them for $30 under the MSRP, and shipping wasn't exorbitant.

Check Atlas' website www.atlasrr.com to see what they offer in your era and then go to the other site and see if they have it in stock. 

[JMB]

Many thanks for the tips!

Will visit Caboose Hobbies but appreciate knowing that I can run my DC locos.

...John

[Cederstrand]

Reading posts about Hyun's enthusiasm for model RR, (which I share) I am curious: Is anyone here ever satisfied with their collections and/or layouts? Are you able to sit back with contentment or is there ALWAYS something you still want to add or do?

Still as excited to watch a loco running down the tracks as when I was a child outside a Hobby Shop window display. Have wonderful memories doing weeks worth of work around the neighborhood, saving up to buy one of those dream engines in the display case. These days I just need funds to finish the train room and build a layout of my own so I can run what I have.

Forever a train nut at heart. :^) -Rob

[pcarrell]

Rule #1 in model railroading: The layout is NEVER done! 

There's always something to add.  More trains, more buildings, more people, more scenery, and then there's always replacing older (less well built) structures with better, newer ones.  And there's always that one loco you always wanted that is due to be released six months from anytime.......

[Wdlgln005]

Rule #2 of Model Railroading: New Products are introduced every month. Chances are, somebody will produce a model in Your Roadame. Some models are introduced that Changes Everything. These changes can make most previous models Obsolete or Second Rate.

The Holy Grail of Model Railroading is a new model that provides New Levels of Improved Performance, New more prototypical details, or adds another factor to the enjoyment of the modeler.

The combination of Rule #1 & Rule #2 keeps hobby shops, manufacturers, magazines & websites in operation.  I see too many posts proclaiming Doom & Gloom & the end of the Hobby. Frankly, I doubt if that will ever take place. There will always be folks new to the hobby. The only goofs are from those that never tried to do something. A layout can always be redone. Detailing & painting get better with practice. 

 

[Cederstrand]

[Rule #2 of Model Railroading: New Products are introduced every month. Chances are, somebody will produce a model in Your Roadame. Some models are introduced that Changes Everything. These changes can make most previous models Obsolete or Second Rate.]

I must admit, there are a few newer N engines out there I would like to add one day. In the past two years I have sold off quite a number of older models just to try out a few of the newer ones. Have been shifting towards quality over quantity, although some older engines you would still have to pry from my cold dead hands.LOL Also have picked up some junkers  recently for kit-bashing into unique little logging-type steamers.

Philip, I figure that Rule #1 applies to most folks here. Guess I have been trying to change my mindset to enjoy what I already have over obtaining more. Besides, if my wife learned how much $$$$ I really spend on this hobby, she might lock me in the barn or something. I buy her some HO from time to time to keep her happy (and involved in the hobby). As an artist, I must "finish" paintings, but I do understand and agree completely how anything could be improved or altered over the long term. Having not even begun my layout yet, it sometimes seems monumental the amount of work ahead when I finally do. For now displaying some of the collection at least allows me to enjoy dreaming of the day when they are winding through the model mountains I envision. Rob

[jwils1]

Has anyone tried putting sound in an N scale boxcar?  With the somewhat limited sound availability in N scale it might be a could substitute while we wait for N sound technology to evolve.

I have some in HO and they work well for my non-sound DCC locos.

[Anonymous]

hey guys how is everything. I am not a n scale guy but i have some n scale atlas flextrack for free if anyone is interested. Theres like 6 pieces of looks to be 2-3 ft long. If youd like them they are very good condition just email me and they are yours. thanks

[R. T. POTEET]

Rule #2 of Model Railroading: New Products are introduced every month. Chances are, somebody will produce a model in Your Roadame. Some models are introduced that Changes Everything. These changes can make most previous models Obsolete or Second Rate.

Cederstrand, your 6:32 PM post of 8 June got me to thinking about my current status as a model railroader - and more specifically as an N Scale model railroader.  As I have elaborated upon in previous responses here on The "N" Crowd" as well as on other posts I am currently without a layout and, at the age of 67, I am at a crossroads.  For a variety of reasons I found it necessary to scrap my previous layouts while still far from COMPLETION.  I think that layouts can be complete; I just have never reached that stage.

I would like for my new/next layout to be my last and, hence, I am, over the course of the next couple of years, going to have to make some serious decisions as to where I want to go in this hobby.  A large measure of my quandary deals with era; is it now a la Eric Brooman of Utah Belt fame or the mid-'50s.  Some would say,

What difference does it make?  It is your railroad - model what you wish!

and that is certainly true.  But as Dave Vollmer stated in a recent post, this is a mantra which I would like to avoid like I would like to avoid the plague; I am an aspiring writer with my interests resting on the American frontier and hence I am extremely sensitive to anachronisms; no 30-30s being taken down from over the doorway to fend off rampaging Apache Indians a la that hack Zane Grey.  I SIMPLY CANNOT MODEL BOTH THE NOW ERA AND THE MID-'50s!!!

Wdlgln005 said:

new products are introduced every month

and that scares the aitch out of me largely, because, as I just stated, I have to make a decision as to just where my future modeling budget is going to carry me.  A few months ago I thought I knew exactly where I was going; now I am not so sure! On frequent occasion I have made disparaging comments about the quality of N Scale steamers usually in regards to what I have perceived to be p-poor performance.  This perceived lack of quality has oriented me as a diesel modeler. I have found, however, that Athearn's recent introduction of the Challenger and the reviews of its performance are encouraging - and just a little bit scary; I would certainly hope that this might mark the beginning of a trend towards steam locomotives with decent pulling potential.  This locomotive has caused a painful eruption of transitionitus!

Transitioning would mean the disposal of a significant number of recent N Scale diesels and a disposal of all my recent freight car fleet.  This is the scare factor in the previous paragraph!!! On the other hand I could find use for a sizeable fleet of passenger cars, both smooth-sided and flute-sided as well as a sizeable fleet of roof-walk equipped freight cars.  You might correctly perceive from this that I have been a little indisiplined in my purchasing habits in  the past.

Since I am a freelancer no manufacturer is ever going to

produce a model in my roadname

as pcarrell also stated.  No manufacturer is ever going to produce a model of my prototype since my prototype does not exist.  If a manufacturer were, however, to announce tomorrow, the introduction of  an EM1 or an H8 or a GS1/GS6 or K11 or an articulated - as opposed to a Mallet - 2-8-8-2 or . . . . . . . the list goes on ad nauseum; such an announcement would probably propel me backwards fifty years.

Oh my!!! When life was simple!!!    

[Anonymous]

sorry if posting like this is not allowed