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The "N" Crowd Locked

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:12 AM
 GNP007 wrote:
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

It's possible...  But you almost have to solder a joint between flextrack sections on a curve, don't you?  I mean, how else are you going to keep the flextrack from snapping back straight?

I probably don't have as many expansion joints as I need, though.  But, the climate in the layout room stays relatively steady.  It is winter, though, and the humidity is lower, so it's possible the table has contracted some.

I may have to do the Dremel thing if things get worse.

This is very interesting.  I'm wondering if I should somehow do expansion joints with my Kato track?  Maybe leave some small gaps between sections?  Since the rail doesn't float like in flex track I'm wondering if I might have problems.  My layout is in the family room and we keep the house at about 71-72 degrees during the colder months.  It does get hotter in the summer since we don't have air though.  Any thoughts from anyone?

I just found on the Kato web site that they say to just glue one of the two posts that is molded on the underside of the track and to NOT glue any switches, crossing gates, etc.  These should be allowed to float, so that they may adust for inconsistencies due to humidity and temperature on the mounting surface.

I'm thinking maybe to just glue every other track piece at one tab and let every other one float.

Rob Newman

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:12 AM
 jwils1 wrote:

Dave:

Thanks for the reply.  It's encouraging.  I think I'll check out my LHS and take a good look at everthing and see if they think the box car setup would work.  I'll also go the the train show and get as much info as I can.

I really think that I do want to try it.  Looks like fun!

Jwils1, Mizzel dosent have a huge selection of "N" scale but they have some. I would sugest going to caboose or the Hobby lobby on 92nd and wadsworth. If you want to meet up at the train show/swap at the jeffco fairgrounds coming up in january, I would love to. I also have some modern model power cars that I could trade you to help get your car selection up and going. Let me know what you may want to do. Curt
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Posted by pcarrell on Thursday, December 28, 2006 12:18 PM
I used foam and latex caulk to fold the rails.  I used mostly Atlas track, both code 80 (inthe staging areas) & code 55 (in the visible areas) and it's held fine for about three years now in Indiana weather (i.e. humid).  I soldered all the rails on my curves, including some that were 270 degrees at a 24"r, but I left small gaps for expantion at the ends of the curves.  I also staggered the jail joints on curves.  All of this worked well for me and I'll be doing it again on my new layout.
Philip
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Posted by MAbruce on Thursday, December 28, 2006 2:10 PM

I have one of those ‘eastern basements' that goes through humidity changes with the seasons.  My Atlas code 80 flex track is nailed through cork roadbed to a plywood base (although in hindsight I should have glued it - the nail heads look poor).  I did leave a couple of expansion joints on straight-aways.  No issues at all so far.  The track work has been flawless since it was laid over four years ago.  One extra thing I did was to prime all my bench work (every area front, back, and underneath).  I'm convinced that this made a big difference in sealing it from the humidity so it won't swell.  A dehumidifier helps too.

Dave - is this the same layout you bring to shows?  If so, perhaps moving it around is behind the issues you're dealing with?  

 

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:06 PM

This particular layout has only been to one show.  It was cold and dry that weekend, so I doubt there was much issue.  I'm convinced the problem is my lack of expansion joints and the fact that the foam roadbed has so much give (the flextrack can stretch it as it tries to straighten out).

I'm replacing the tunnel curve with Kato Unitrack.  I'll solder the Unitrack to the Atlas where they connect, to reduce movement, but I'm leaving the Unitrack sections just snapped together.  I'm starting the Unitrack a few inches outside the tunnel portral.  It's Code 80, but the ties are a little farther apart.  I hope that ballast and weathering hides this.  So far the end I did looks decent.

For the other curves I resoaked the ballast and used T-pins to hold the correct curvature.  Then I re-soaked the ballast with a much stronger dilluted glue mixture.  We'll see how that works.

I haven't figured out where I want to cut expansion joints yet.

Thanks for the suggestions so far!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by pcarrell on Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:04 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

I haven't figured out where I want to cut expansion joints yet.

If you do that, make sure you stagger them.  It'll help the rails hold the curve better.

Philip
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Posted by SOU Fan on Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:53 PM

For all you N scale buffs I need help. 

 I just bought one of these for my N scale layout and it has alot of extra parts. Is it supposed to make another kit and I didn't get directions? Here is a link to walthers showin the kit.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3230

I have all the parts to build the building in the foreground.  Are the extra parts for the backround building???

 

-dekruif

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:58 PM

OK, the inside curve through the tunnel has been replaced.  I used 3 sections of Kato Unitrack and a new piece of Atlas flex.

Starting on the town side, the Unitrack starts about 3" outside of the tunnel portal.  With paint, ballast, and weathering it's not immediately apparent that the change is there.  That joint is soldered.  Inside the tunnel are the three pieces of Unitrack.  They're not soldered, but tacked in place with a bit of white glue.  Inside the tunnel yet there's a soldered joint between the last piece of Unitrack and Atlas flex.  The flex comes out of the tunnel, through its spiral easement, and ends at a non-soldered expansion joint on the straightaway on the stone bridge.

Thank the good Lord I built a decent-sized access panel, or I'd still be blasting out the mountain!

I checked for electrical continuity and that works fine (although it would be nothing to drop a set of feeders if I have problems).  I have to wait for the glue and ballast to dry to check for long-wheelbase operation, but everything checked out as I was laying it.  Eyeballing it shows no kinks or compound curves.  YET.  But I think the expansion joint is in just the right spot to absorb flexing without derailing a train.  Having it on a straight is the best idea I think.

Although it's always daunting to dig track out of a "completed" layout, it's a small price to pay to eliminate sub-standard operations.  I imagine as the seasons change and I move around (next assignment is Kirtland AFB, NM) more problems will pop up.  I keep a stock of flextrack and railjoiners just in case!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by nscaler711 on Friday, December 29, 2006 2:50 AM
im going off topic here real quik but does any one have Trainz Railroad Sim. 2006?

Army National Guard E3
MOS 91B

I have multiple scales now
Z, N, HO, O, and G.  

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Posted by apartment railer on Friday, December 29, 2006 9:03 AM
Airbrush help needed, Looking to do some bashing on locos. Im talking swapping hoods etc. So when it comes time to paint my expensive lil hobby I want the paint to look good, and not thick like when you use a spray can. Time to airbrush, but I have no clue on what to buy. I really dont want to spend crazy $ and I dont want to use the testors kit with the air can...
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, December 29, 2006 9:39 AM

 apartment railer wrote:
Airbrush help needed, Looking to do some bashing on locos. Im talking swapping hoods etc. So when it comes time to paint my expensive lil hobby I want the paint to look good, and not thick like when you use a spray can. Time to airbrush, but I have no clue on what to buy. I really dont want to spend crazy $ and I dont want to use the testors kit with the air can...

I've had a lot of people here try to explain the differences--which is better and what not, but the best explanation I've see is on the Dream, Plan, Build Video #1. Had I watched that, I would have bought a single-stage internal-mix airbrush. Instead, I bought a two-stage internal-mix and it took quite a while to figure out how to get a good job out of it.

 

 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by CraigN on Friday, December 29, 2006 11:11 AM

From my experiance, the key to success when painting anything is to do many light coats. Don't rush your work - rushed work results in paint going on to heavy, runs, hiding of the details.

Use a compressor for constant pressure.

Even some cheap airbrushes can give great results. I used to use one that I got from harbour freight for like 15 bucks. It was a dual action ,internal mix air brush- looked like a Badger copy.

Practice putting paint down lightly on something like cardboard before putting it on a model. Once you master that, then just go for it! You'll be amazed at what you can do.

Craig 

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Posted by spidge on Friday, December 29, 2006 11:59 AM

Hey now you guys are hidding some good info here. Maybe some of these questions should be on the main page?

Is there anyone out there who knows who may carry SP cabeese, not the silver one.

I have been looking for some time and have only found the Concor that I don't realy like. I think the caboose type is C-40-4 bay window.

Or maybe some advice on how to help the two Concor Babeese run better?

Many Thanks.

John

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 29, 2006 12:44 PM

 apartment railer wrote:
Airbrush help needed, Looking to do some bashing on locos. Im talking swapping hoods etc. So when it comes time to paint my expensive lil hobby I want the paint to look good, and not thick like when you use a spray can. Time to airbrush, but I have no clue on what to buy. I really dont want to spend crazy $ and I dont want to use the testors kit with the air can...

Hi apartment railer,

Ask 10 people on this and you may get 12 answers. :-)

Here's what I use and have found easy and successful.  I bought a Badger off brand.  It says Sears but I expect that Badger made it anyway.  The Badger model is a 200 NH.  It is a bottom feed single action, internal mix airbrush.  Check out the Badger web site for it.  I like the simplicity of single action and the volume is adjusted by a set screw in the back.  I run it at 18 to 25 psi with an old air compressor that my brother gave me.  If you need to buy an air compressor I'd recommend that you NOT buy an oil-less unit.  They are typically really noisy so get a model that takes oil.  You'll also want to make sure it has an air holding tank along with a pressure gauge and water trap.  You don't want any water splotching your nice paint job.  You can get a compressor like this for around $70 to $80 if you really shop.  I recommend using water base paint because it won't attack your plastic models.  I use Badger Precise Design Model Flex.  It is already thin so does not need to be thinned for an airbrush.  Just pour the paint right into your airbrush jar.  Then when you're done you can pour what's left right back into your paint jar.  This is the simplest method that I have found while still getting great results.  Airbrushing can be intimidating but once you get set up and give it a try you'll find that it's not that hard.  If you have any problems just post them here and I'll answer as best I can.

Rob

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 29, 2006 12:53 PM
Spray paint's not the way to go. Trust me.
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Posted by trainfreek92 on Friday, December 29, 2006 4:03 PM

Spidge, why dont you just put a nice set of micro-trains trucks/couplers on the concor? That shoudl make it run great

Running New England trains on The Maple Lead & Pine Tree Central RR from the late 50's to the early 80's in N scale
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Posted by andrechapelon on Friday, December 29, 2006 5:09 PM
 spidge wrote:

Hey now you guys are hidding some good info here. Maybe some of these questions should be on the main page?

Is there anyone out there who knows who may carry SP cabeese, not the silver one.

I have been looking for some time and have only found the Concor that I don't realy like. I think the caboose type is C-40-4 bay window.

Or maybe some advice on how to help the two Concor Babeese run better?

Many Thanks.

Microtrains makes an SP C30-1 caboose. However, they were pretty much gone by the late 60's. The steel cupola caboose  ( http://www.4nscale.com/details.asp?p=5114 ) Microtrains makes bears some resemblance to an SP C40-1 or C40-3 ( http://espee.railfan.net/picindex/c-40-3_photos/1061_sp-c-40-3-caboose-todd_osterberg.jpg )steel caboose. However, the windows are oversized for the SP.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by spidge on Friday, December 29, 2006 8:44 PM
 trainfreek92 wrote:

Spidge, why dont you just put a nice set of micro-trains trucks/couplers on the concor? That shoudl make it run great

Thanks for the thought but the Concor steps and coupler box are metal parts that are one piece with the chassis. I usually do just that.For the mean time I put IM metal wheels and installed the MT couplers but I had to shrink up the box quite a bit.

 

John

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Posted by trainfreek92 on Friday, December 29, 2006 8:46 PM
Cool as long as it works for you Spidge.
Running New England trains on The Maple Lead & Pine Tree Central RR from the late 50's to the early 80's in N scale
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 29, 2006 8:51 PM
any of y'all ever bought/tried/used the Kato coupler kits? I got a set of 20 couplers that dropped right into the boxes, and they're great! And I'd like to buy more. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Where can I find them? Links would be greatly appreciative
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Posted by jwils1 on Saturday, December 30, 2006 8:58 AM
 curtw_944 wrote:
 jwils1 wrote:

Dave:

Thanks for the reply.  It's encouraging.  I think I'll check out my LHS and take a good look at everthing and see if they think the box car setup would work.  I'll also go the the train show and get as much info as I can.

I really think that I do want to try it.  Looks like fun!

Jwils1, Mizzel dosent have a huge selection of "N" scale but they have some. I would sugest going to caboose or the Hobby lobby on 92nd and wadsworth. If you want to meet up at the train show/swap at the jeffco fairgrounds coming up in january, I would love to. I also have some modern model power cars that I could trade you to help get your car selection up and going. Let me know what you may want to do. Curt

Curt:

Thanks for the offer but it looks like I might not be able to make it to the Jeffco train show.  I think I'm going to postpone my try at N scale for a little while.  I have much yet to do on my HO layout and I would like to wait awhile to see what develops in N sound.

In the meantime I'll keep reading the posts and continue to get all the info I can so I'll be ready to try it with as much knowledge as I can gather.

Jerry

Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:05 AM

The new curve on the inside track inside my tunnel is in place.  It's exactly 13 and 3/4" radius (thanks to Kato), but I still get a little slippage with my new GP9 on that curve with a healthy load.  I'm guessing it's just the engine, not the track.  Nevertheless, that kink that was developing is gone.  The other kinks are now gone.  Combined with the Peco turnout (lost spring) I replaced on Christmas, my track is once again in great shape.

Funny, I took great care laying the track this summer.  I think my problems (save for the turnout spring) were a result of laying (and soldering) the track in a hot, humid garage and then moving the layout to a cooler, drier indoor room.

Use expanion joints!  Don't go overboard like I did.  I hate "slow" or "dead" spots so at first I had soldered every single rail joint.  Somehow, I knew better, but did it anyway.

Nevertheless, all is ell for now.  The trains run like a swiss watch (except for my new GP9 straining under a load of hoppers and gondolas with plaster-cast loads; it needs a mate to MU with!).

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by spidge on Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:25 AM

I also built in the garage and soldered all the joints., but I cut staggered gaps int the straights and between turnouts in sidings. They do close up but even with all these gaps the I still get an occasional kink. I glued the track down and it seems the turnouts don't budge and the kinks end up at thair rail joiners mostly.

If I did it again I would paint all the benchwork to seal it but I would still glue all track.

John

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:29 PM

Hmmm, I think I made a mistake.

I have built several layouts in the past 35 years and it seams that each time I build the bench work using a different method.  This time I am building a door size table with some extensions and decided to use a method that I haven't done before.  This method uses ripped birch plywood for the strip lumber and is glued and nailed together.  I basically followed the design principles as described in the World's Greatest Hobby "Building Your First Model Railroad" video.  I have seen this technique used in other layouts in MR magazine and thought that I'd give it a try.  Anyway, my issues are that since this layout is glued and nailed it is much harder to make changes in the future.  With a table that is screwed together I can just unscrew the areas that I want to modify and make the adjustments needed.  I am in the process of adding an extension along a wall and have already found that I want to make an adjustment to the main table and can't.  The end result of the extension will be the same but I'll have to use different techniques to attach it to the main board.  I wish I would have used screws to hold the layout together instead of glue and nails.

Anyway, I was just wondering what table building techniques others have used and what you like and don't like.  Anyone care to share?

Rob

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, December 30, 2006 3:52 PM
I always use wallboard screws.  I do use glue (and screws) for those parts (like L-girders or on a door layout, the 1x4 supports for the folding legs) I know I'll never change.  Otherwise I just use wallboard screws.  It's critical, however, that you drill pilot holes first to prevent splitting.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, December 30, 2006 8:04 PM

Major setback in my PRR H10s project.  Basically, I trashed the mechanism.  I had a DZ123 all soldered in place and everything worked, except the headlight only lit in reverse.  So, what did I do?  I switched motor leads.  Great idea, except that as I soldered the second motor lead, I noticed the solder wasn't flowing from the tinned ip.  Why?  Oh, I see.  The iron was busy melting the motor lead mount instead of the solder.  Try as I might to fix it, no go.

These are the times that try men's souls.

Back to eBay.  The original Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 that gave its life for the cause of the Standard Railroad of the World was $40 on eBay.  That's no small wad, but at least I didn't trash a PCM or BLI.  I'm bidding again on eBay.

This steam project will be my last.  Henceforward, any new acquisitions in motor power will be diesel, barring some spectacular pre-DCC-installed-PRR-steam miracle deal.

In fact, this project is driving me screaming into the arms of my Penn Central/Conrail idea.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:07 AM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Major setback in my PRR H10s project.  Basically, I trashed the mechanism.  I had a DZ123 all soldered in place and everything worked, except the headlight only lit in reverse.  So, what did I do?  I switched motor leads.  Great idea, except that as I soldered the second motor lead, I noticed the solder wasn't flowing from the tinned ip.  Why?  Oh, I see.  The iron was busy melting the motor lead mount instead of the solder.  Try as I might to fix it, no go.

These are the times that try men's souls.

Back to eBay.  The original Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 that gave its life for the cause of the Standard Railroad of the World was $40 on eBay.  That's no small wad, but at least I didn't trash a PCM or BLI.  I'm bidding again on eBay.

This steam project will be my last.  Henceforward, any new acquisitions in motor power will be diesel, barring some spectacular pre-DCC-installed-PRR-steam miracle deal.

In fact, this project is driving me screaming into the arms of my Penn Central/Conrail idea.

That's a bummer Dave.  I sure hope you get the one on ebay for a decent price.  I gotta hand it to you for taking on such a project.  More than I could accomplish.  I am enjoying building an N Scale Architect building, the Shue Cement Company though.  It is quite a process and taking some time but is coming along great.  Hope your next go at your project works out well for you.  Keep us posted.

Rob

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Posted by Blue Flamer on Sunday, December 31, 2006 11:47 PM
HAPPY
NEW
YEAR 
 
Best wishes to all for a Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year.
 
Blue Flamer. 
"There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"." Dave Barry, Syndicated Columnist. "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." Doctor Who.
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Posted by RR Redneck on Monday, January 1, 2007 1:07 AM

 NSnscaler wrote:
Spray paint's not the way to go. Trust me.

I use an air brush at work, but on my models, I have been known to use spray paint when I dont want to crank up the air compressor.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by nscaler711 on Monday, January 1, 2007 1:28 AM
you now what works good to just a regular paint brush. im warning you though do not paint the model thickiley you will have brush strokes....also you can add your own graffiti with an extremily fine paint brush

Army National Guard E3
MOS 91B

I have multiple scales now
Z, N, HO, O, and G.  

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