Hobby dying I think not!

[IRONROOSTER]

The future of the hobby may will be in bringing in new modelers in their 50's and 60's who have the time, space, and money.  Their children are launched, careers are winding down or they're already retired.  That's the group from which to recruit new members.

In my case, even though I have been in the hobby for 35 years, I had a long period of relative dormancy while the kids were growing up.  Once I hit my 50's, my hobby activity picked up along with available funds and space.

Enjoy
Paul

[simon1966]

I believe that there are several ways to look at this. If one takes a snapshot of the hobby today it appears that the hobby is made up of a whole bunch of us 40-plus-somethings. As a group we are in our prime earning years and have plenty of disposable income. There are lots of new products and technology to tempt the almighty dollar out of our wallets.

The retail business, like all areas, is undergoing change driven by the Internet and the new outlets that it opens up for us to spend our dollars. All-in-all things are quite vibrant.

What concerns the hobby and craft industries the most, is the future. It does not matter if it is quilting, woodcarving , MRR or any other of the craft based hobbies, there is a real concern about the lack of numbers following our generation.

So everyone is right. The hobby is not dieing now. It is what the future holds that is the concern.

[jecorbett]

To me the best indicator of the health of the hobby is the number of times a desired item must be back ordered. It is a rare occurence when I do most of my non-railroading online shopping but happens frequently when I try to order model railroading items. I have had this happen with locos as well as structures. It happens when I try to order from an e-tailer, a phone in retailer like Trainworld, and even when I try to order direct from Walthers. Supply it seems can't keep up with demand. If the business wasn't healthy, we would be seeing inventories building up. We are seeing just the opposite. Model railroading is alive and well.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the hobby is in trouble so much as the retailers are in trouble. And that's certainly not particular to MRR.

Example: My wife does scrapbooking, which is about as hot and current a hobby as you can get. And yet every craft/scrapbook retailer near us has gone under over the past few years. Why? Because of the mail-order and internet retailers who advertise in the glossy hobby magazines... sound familiar? Not to mention that E-Bay continues to be a force in driving costs down at all sales channels. If you can go buy one of her trimmer-things at the local craft store for $20 + 6-8% sales tax, or at the mail order place for $15 + $4 shipping and no tax, or at the Internet retailer for $13 + $3 shipping and no tax, or on E-Bay for $7.50 and $5 shipping and no tax, where ya' gonna go? I'll wager it's probably one of the latter three depending on your particular sensitivities and preferences.

If the hobby itself is dying, why do we have more breadth of product than ever, with more innovation, more technology and variety? Would all the manufacturers continue to invest in tooling, marketing and such if they weren't moving product to justify it? Heck no! And (at risk of starting a holy war) IMO it's all at better quality and prices (corrected for inflation please!) than at any time in my 30 years of hobbying-memory.

[BRAKIE]

jecorbett,Sorry to disagree but,I don't see the hobby as strong as it once was..I don't think its dying either but,shrinking in size.I also believe the hobby is redefining its self to be more user friendly for the new hobbyist as far as low end quality models such as Athearn's RTR and the Atlas Trainman Line..Of course there is the influx of preassemble buildings and Bachmann's low end DCC equipped locomotives and DCC systems.Of course MRC is still making low price DC power packs.That tells me something about the growth of the hobby and how they are producing more items to entice new hobbyist.

[whywaites]

One thing I have noticed since getting back into the US model railroading is the disappearance or downsizing of many of the retailers. I can only go by the mail order shops as they're the ones I use since I live outside the US, Standard Hobby supply, Longs and Express Station to name a few.

Shaun

[NeO6874]

Well, in that case it up to you guys who have (grand)kids to get them interested in trains so that, even if they move on to cars/girls/whatever, they may come back in the future - probably with the help that mass-marketing will provide (ie Lionel for Christmas Tree, or something like that).  And its the job of those who are in HS/college to (when we have kids) get them involved (again, through mass market Lionels or Thomas or something).

While mass-marketing might not the the 'silver-bullet' to get this hobby back to where people remember it, its a start.  I mean, I was in a LHS a few weeks ago (maybe a month or so), and as I was looking for the stuff I needed to get a project done, someone came in with his kid - he asked the clerk if they sold motors as the one he had wasn't working anymore... The clerk seemed pretty helpful, but wasn't able to get him the motor (I think he told him to look it up through walthers or athearn or soemthing).  The clerk did show the customer their selection of (running) used locos (which weren't that bad price-wise), saying it would probably be easier geting one of those running for the time being, as remotoring old equipment can get to be a headache...

I don't know if he actually bought anything, but I'm willing to bet that if he didn't his son was asking him constantly when they were going to get a train...

[jecorbett]

Before beating the drums I suggest taking a closer look at the hobby in general..As far as Thomas "Shining Time Station" was canceled due to lack of interest on our PBS station.Of course reruns and a 6:30am air time may have helped kill the show.

As far as elbow room in hobby shops how was it during the year on Saturdays? Remember we are entering  cold weather and ALL hobbies see a upswing in activity..Of course the influx of customers one has to divide the buyers from the lookers as well including the "first timers" that are "Thinking about a hobby"..

Also how many was looking for non train items such as model paint,glue etc?

Sorry,but,my past part time jobs in hobby shops tells me there is a influx of customers during the cold months and around Christmas.Just because a customer buys a train set is no assurance they are budding modelers or the set will be used much beyond Christmas.

Of course there is going to be more interest in indoor hobbies during the cold months. I have been in this hobby for over 30 years and I do most of my work October to March. My LHS doesn't see me in the other 6 months. The fact that it is a seasonal upswing doesn't indicate there is an underlying weakness in the hobby. Many businesses are seasonal in nature and make most of their profit during a small window. As long as they do well in those few months, they can stay in business. 

I'm sure many of the first time buyers are not going to stay with it but others will. As long as there are new modelers coming into the hobby, it will stay strong and there is every indication that is the case.

[CNJ831]

Before beating the drums I suggest taking a closer look at the hobby in general..As far as Thomas "Shining Time Station" was canceled due to lack of interest on our PBS station.Of course reruns and a 6:30am air time may have helped kill the show.

As far as elbow room in hobby shops how was it during the year on Saturdays? Remember we are entering  cold weather and ALL hobbies see a upswing in activity..Of course the influx of customers one has to divide the buyers from the lookers as well including the "first timers" that are "Thinking about a hobby"..

Also how many was looking for non train items such as model paint,glue etc?

Sorry,but,my past part time jobs in hobby shops tells me there is a influx of customers during the cold months and around Christmas.Just because a customer buys a train set is no assurance they are budding modelers or the set will be used much beyond Christmas.

Brakie is both very observant and correct here. To which I'll add that you can not judge the state of the hobby by visiting one successful train show or just your local hobby shop. The situation varies widely from area to area. Yesterday I attended a long established show (35 years), the largest in the region, and found it very meager relative to what was put on by the same group at the same location a decade ago - 1/2 the number of dealers and 1/2 the attendance. Likewise, visiting my LHS last week, the manager bemoaned the fact that October had been the quietest he ever saw and even now, in mid November, the customer count is way below normal. So you can't reliably judge the overall situation from a very limited sampling.

I will, however, once again point out, as some others here already have, that there are numerous indicators that do not point toward a thriving current situation in the hobby. Hobbies across the board are down in participation and the average age of those in the hobbies is rapidly increasing, signifying a lack of interest in such pursuits by those under the age of 40. This is a result of societal changes that Thomas, nor Lionel, not anything else is going to alter.

CNJ831

 

[NeO6874]

Brakie, maybe a few high speed train collisions might get the kids interested.  Just don't use any of my stuff, lol. 

For that we need Lionels... and Gomez...

It'll work flawlessly... for about 15 minutes when the locos finally give out....

[chemung]

BTW, I take it you will be at the Great Train Show next weekend? Lisa is going to be ther with her family, I will be there on Saturday morning unless we get a foot of snow ( hardly likely).

That show (at the Shriners' Center in Wilmington, MA, for the uninitiated) is one of my favorites.  Not sure which day I'll go yet - I usually have to negotiate the time frame.  I try to go around lunchtime and buy one of their sausage subs - good quality, good price and the Shriners put the money to a good cause.  At times it's elbow-to-elbow in there, and most people seem to be leaving with at least something in a plastic bag.  If nothing else, they're at least leaving with smiles on their faces.

Anyone else going?

MisterBeasley,I am a Shriner thank you for your kind words.

Dave W.

Omaha,Nebr.

[BRAKIE]

Get the kids away from video games and watch the hobby market boom.

Thats going to be hard Jeffrey but your right, the hobby market would boom for sure.  I remember as a kid wanting either trains or model car and truck kits for Christmas and birthdays.  Today kids want the newest video game out.  The thing is its hard to match the satisfaction kids get from video games.  I have a Playstation 2 and a bunch of car and sports games.  You can't beat playing Gran Tourismo 4 or Nascar 2006 for heart pounding entertainment.  Doing 200 MPH at Talledega with a bunch of cars around you or driving a Dodge Viper sideways in the corners in GT4 is hard to beat.  I wonder if the technology that is available now was available back when I was a kid if I would have become a hermit like todays kids and not leave the house.  We had a Colecovision when I was a kid but the graphics weren't great.  It was OK for rainy days. 

 

Dave,I fully agree..I don't know of any railroading that would come close to NASCAR racing at full speed with guys like Gordon,J.Johnson,Stewart,the Busch brothers Kasey Kahne and the other top drivers nipping at your heels streaking for the finish line or the heart breaking wreck that totals your car.Yeah,how to get kids and adults away from that action? Todays video games have so much to offer even TrainSim and Trainz is hard to beat.

DCC,Sound perfect models,super nice layouts RTR cars and engines,prebuilt structures are still hard press to draw in new modelers...You gotta have that interest in trains and if you don't have that then this hobby won't interest you.

Sorry guys but,in todays world our hobby doesn't have much to offer in the way of action.

[whywaites]

Get the kids away from video games and watch the hobby market boom.

 I wonder if the technology that is available now was available back when I was a kid if I would have become a hermit like todays kids and not leave the house.  We had a Colecovision when I was a kid but the graphics weren't great.  It was OK for rainy days. 

Dave we had a small problem whist I was serving in the RAF, some of the newer recruits because of single man accomodation and computer games alot of social interaction disappeared and the sense of been a part of a team started to suffer, thankfully the problem was addressed and was getting better before I retired.

Shaun

[whywaites]

There was an interesting article on the BBC here a few days ago with reference to Christmas spending. It was mostly refering to the decline of record (CD's) sales and record shops closing, these shops now have to compete for our disposable income against the likes of game consoles hand held consoles, mobile phones (I know my sons new phone just cost $240) and videos/DVD's. Alot of these items weren't around when I grew up, but modelling still had to compete with other hobbies that were and still are around. I had my spending money and it was a split between Modelling, Music and going out at the weekend. It's a fact our income is spread alot further these days I gave up 2 other hobbies to concentrate on my modelling and thankfully my son and eldest daughter are also interested. Thankfully over here in the UK is still a very popular hobby and the remaining hobby shops also now have to compete with the likes of the big mail order and internet based companies, my LHS which is 10 miles up the road gives me internet prices in his shop when I drop in.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Get the kids away from video games and watch the hobby market boom.

[simon1966]

The hobby and crafting industry (of which MRR is a segment) is very, very concerned about the lack of young blood taking up hobbies. My wife is in the quilting/fine needle arts business and gets many of the trade journals. My brother is a marketing guy in the paper craft/ scrap booking industry. A significant theme in the trade journals and at the national trade conventions is the relative lack of interest in the teen to 30 year age groups. The needle arts field in particular is projecting a drop off in the number of sewing stores and quilt shops as the market consolidates and shrinks. My brother's company spends a considerable amount of its development resources in trying to come up with ideas to appeal to kids and young adults. So, not wishing to be a doom-and-gloom merchant, but I think it is worth noting that the hobby industry as a whole sees this as a significant challenge.

[NeO6874]

Now, on the other hand, I believe what does hurt this hobby or keeps some from pursueing it is the HO and N scale sets sold through chain stores Such as Toys R Us and others. ( I'm not bashing toy stores) These sets are, for the most part, puchased by the parents, aunts and uncles, with good intentions, for gifts under the tree for youngsters. Anyone care to take a guess as to how many kids end up with broken trains the day after??

I'll wager most (if not all) of them get broken.

However, I like the idea now of "mass marketing" Lionels, and I'll bet that if the new companies that have started making the S Scale stuff went the same route, there would be a huge influx of new modelers - if only for the Christmas season (until they grow up into other scales).  I mean, provided these new Lionels and AF replacements are as heavy as the old stuff - they'll be just as "bulletproof" as the vintage ones.  Sure dropping it 4' to the floor would probably destroy anything, but I think that the kids won't be able to ruin a Lionel or AF set by knocking it off the track a few times this season (or next season, or the season after, and so on)

[CAZEPHYR]

I agree!  We have more models and accessories available than ever before in the history of Model Railroading.  The new product lines in the last five years have been amazing.   Sound and DCC has attracted many to the hobby and will continue to do so.

The only down side I can think of is how do I purchase all of the new models.  

How can this be bad??

 

[MisterBeasley]

BTW, I take it you will be at the Great Train Show next weekend? Lisa is going to be ther with her family, I will be there on Saturday morning unless we get a foot of snow ( hardly likely).

That show (at the Shriners' Center in Wilmington, MA, for the uninitiated) is one of my favorites.  Not sure which day I'll go yet - I usually have to negotiate the time frame.  I try to go around lunchtime and buy one of their sausage subs - good quality, good price and the Shriners put the money to a good cause.  At times it's elbow-to-elbow in there, and most people seem to be leaving with at least something in a plastic bag.  If nothing else, they're at least leaving with smiles on their faces.

Anyone else going?

[BRAKIE]

Before beating the drums I suggest taking a closer look at the hobby in general..As far as Thomas "Shining Time Station" was canceled due to lack of interest on our PBS station.Of course reruns and a 6:30am air time may have helped kill the show.

As far as elbow room in hobby shops how was it during the year on Saturdays? Remember we are entering  cold weather and ALL hobbies see a upswing in activity..Of course the influx of customers one has to divide the buyers from the lookers as well including the "first timers" that are "Thinking about a hobby"..

Also how many was looking for non train items such as model paint,glue etc?

Sorry,but,my past part time jobs in hobby shops tells me there is a influx of customers during the cold months and around Christmas.Just because a customer buys a train set is no assurance they are budding modelers or the set will be used much beyond Christmas.

[Eriediamond]

gg1-joe had a thread during the week about opening up a Lionel shop of his own.  It came up that Lionel will be marketing through Target stores this season.  While this may hurt some LHS sales, I'm hoping that it will draw more kids in and eventually be very good for the hobby.  After all, those kids aren't going to want another train set for the holidays next year, but many may want a locomotive or one of Lionel's many operating accessories.  That's where the LHS can make some new customers.

As I said in the other thread, I'm also hoping that parents are starting to look for ways to get the kids away from the TV, computer and game console.  Model Railroading and other "real" hobbies might be an attractive alternative for kids who have burned out on Nintendo while still in grade school.  As a recovered Flight Simaholic, I'm much happier to be addicted to trains instead.

I don't think Lionel marketing through Target will hurt the LHS sales at all. Let's go back a few years, say the 40's or so. The "big three", Sears, Monkey Wards, and JC Penny all had at least four or five pages of their catalogs dedicated to Lionel, American Flyer, and Marx electric trains. Also, Western Auto, which was more of a hardware store back then along with other local hardware stores all carried electric trains and some even were service centers. One must keep in mind though, that these were maketed as toys, which in reality they were. They were also puchased for the most part, by parents with no modeling interests, for kids. Thats where some of us older modelers got our start, which led to trips to the hobby shop for more realistic HO and O scale. Also, I think what made those trains so popular back then was that they were simple to set up and operate along with being hefty and could pretty much take the wear and tear of being played with, and look at how still are around today. And they were pretty much "plug and play". Now, on the other hand, I believe what does hurt this hobby or keeps some from pursueing it is the HO and N scale sets sold through chain stores Such as Toys R Us and others. ( I'm not bashing toy stores) These sets are, for the most part, puchased by the parents, aunts and uncles, with good intentions, for gifts under the tree for youngsters. Anyone care to take a guess as to how many kids end up with broken trains the day after?? This gives a bad start to both the kids and the parents who are not familiar with the hobby. One more comment and I'll get off the soap box. We here on the forum are modelers (for the most part). We try to promote our hobby and make it grow, and we do a pretty good job of it. Just look at the help given out on the forum and the new people asking questions here. I wonder if we took a small step backwards and electric trains were produced like they were back then, instead of targeted for the collectors, if our hobby wouldn't be a little better off. Thanks for your time, Ken

[grayfox1119]

I'm with you on that one Mr B. That is one reason why American kids are getting so darn fat and Diabetes is on a straight graph line UP tracking with weight gain.

BTW, I take it you will be at the Great Train Show next weekend? Lisa is going to be ther with her family, I will be there on Saturday morning unless we get a foot of snow ( hardly likely).

[MisterBeasley]

gg1-joe had a thread during the week about opening up a Lionel shop of his own.  It came up that Lionel will be marketing through Target stores this season.  While this may hurt some LHS sales, I'm hoping that it will draw more kids in and eventually be very good for the hobby.  After all, those kids aren't going to want another train set for the holidays next year, but many may want a locomotive or one of Lionel's many operating accessories.  That's where the LHS can make some new customers.

As I said in the other thread, I'm also hoping that parents are starting to look for ways to get the kids away from the TV, computer and game console.  Model Railroading and other "real" hobbies might be an attractive alternative for kids who have burned out on Nintendo while still in grade school.  As a recovered Flight Simaholic, I'm much happier to be addicted to trains instead.

[Dave Vollmer]

I was at my LHS today and it was PACKED.  Wall-to-wall people shopping for trains, and it sounded like most were first-time buyers.  There was a line to check out!  I know the holidays are coming, but it was still an encouraging sight.

[NeO6874]

So for all of you doubters out there who say the hobby is dying go to a train show and see all the kids buying thomas and moving up to the other stuff.

There's also the parents buying the kid the thomas set for <insert reason to give present here>.  Which in turn gets them to move on to better things, till about when they hit 16.  But they've got the bug, they'll be back...

Not to turn this into another "Oh no! The hobby is going down the tubes" type post, but I think the biggest "problem" right now is just the average age of people - kind of the same reason cabbage patch dolls, or Disney movies, or other things come and go - the market grows and fades with people's ages.  Right now, everyone who grew up with the Lionel under the tree, or had a "Father & Son" layout in the '60s will have kids in about their mid-to-late 20s (give or take).  As people have stated, this is generically a hobby for someone to (re)start in their 30s-40s... so maybe this "buy a kid a thomas set" is just this generation of fathers' way of getting their sons(and daughters from what i have heard here) into the hobby they enjoyed with their father.  OR its their way of sneaking more trains in under the CFOs nose.....

[UNIONPACIFIC4018]

Family and I went to a train show in Ft. Worth today, brother and his family went with us also. My brother bought a transformer for one of our two lionel train sets and I bought one for myself. He is thinking of putting a lionel train that runs on a small shelf throughout the house and his wife is all for it. She had a train as a little girl during Christmas and my brother has renewed his interest in the hobby.

I bought my little boy the Lionel Thomas train set  it was a steal! It was actually cheaper than the other wooden thomas stuff around the show. He is so happy and excited and is doing really well putting the trains on the track and running them.

So for all of you doubters out there who say the hobby is dying go to a train show and see all the kids buying thomas and moving up to the other stuff.