What is truely ruining this hobby other than prices.

[Milwhiawatha]

I remember, when I started in this hobby it use to be really fun and enjoyable. I can say the same for this forum.

 

Lately I have seen people acting smug and being Mr. Know It All’s. People ask what happened to kids, and adults getting into this hobby? See previous sentence, I have heard numerous complaints from people in hobby shops about people they have met at shows and they knock them down cause they don’t know how to do something or cant afford this or that.

 

Now for this list I have noticed a slight decrease in postings. And I thought is it because of the lack of questions, lack of comments, or just the lack, of respect for others?  I don’t mind being corrected with some things its fine but then, you get the smug people who are like you spelled that wrong, or you did that wrong, or you did something wrong.

 

I thought this hobby was fun, and I thought the people in it had respect for one another I guess I was wrong. True there are many that are nice and respect each other but then there is the guy who knows it all and I think those are the ones who are ruining The Worlds Greatest Hobby.

[chris35]

Amen to that, and its really sad too.

[Anonymous]

Look, I'll agree that this hobby seems to have more than its fair share of curmudgeons. But at the same time, I've never encountered a group - workplace, social, fraternal or otherwise - that didn't have its subset of know-it-alls, spoilsports, doomsayers, I'm-better-than-you's and other negativists. I find that particularly true of online communities where many of the social norms don't apply (e.g. people will say things in an online forum that they would never say to someone's face in person).

So yeah, it's easy to find folks in the hobby who seem fixated on proving that they know "better than you". You can find folks more interested in saying things that suggest how wealthy they are (incidentally, usually the best indication they actually aren't) than talking about trains. You can find plenty of folks who cross the line from expressing their point of view to explaining why their point of view is the RIGHT point of view. And Gawd help us if you ask about which DCC system is best...

But, on the same note, I don't know if that has much to do with the hobby. I've learned not to talk about politics at the Elks, not to discuss economics at a United Way dinner, and not to discuss if the media has a liberal bias on the bowling team. And I rarely discuss DCC systems on the forum! The folks that aren't "good company" usually self-identify pretty clearly. I don't go over and talk to those people at a cocktail party, and I don't get involved in a debate with them here.

So maybe a hobby that tends to emphasize precision, attention to detail and a certain degree of living in the internal realm of the imagination attracts a more introverted, 'curmudgeonly' sort than, say, mountain biking... Particularly if you add in a certain element of over-compensation for the "grown men playing with trains" thing. But I'd say that's an incremental thing only. Much more important is the cross-section of the culture that, like any group, has all sorts.

But if you pay attention, you'll also see many who are helpful. Those who are welcoming. Those who continue to answer the same newbie questions over-and-over without complaint in the spirit of making the hobby open to newcomers. Those who offer advice and constructive criticism without judgment.

At the end of the day, my best advice is if someone or something  bugs you, change the channel - i.e. move on to the next thread.

 

[Dave Vollmer]

This will be quite a thread to watch!

For my two cents, I think most people here who may sound like know-it-alls are really just trying to share their experiences with folks to help them avoid the mistakes they've made.  I think the vast majority of people in this hobby want to see others succeed, even if they have trouble articulating it.

[SilverSpike]

Dave, I have to agree with you, most people are just trying to share their experiences and help the other guy to achieve better too. Some people have ways of expressing their experience in a way that may appear to others as being pushy or overbearing, but there not not many of them. And just as the other post mentioned, you will find them in any group, organization, etc, etc...

BTW, are you still showing your module at the train show in Raleigh this weekend?

[ARTHILL]

Hi Milwhiawatha v, Need a break from the trestle, which I find fun.

I wonder which catagory you put me in. I got back into the hobby a couple years ago, didn't know a thing and found this forum to be helpful. I found many levels of skill, but few who didn't want to improve something.

Thus Twhite encouraged me to build a better bridge, Aggro helped me make better trees, Bob encouraged me to find more detail, and you trestle guys, you got my to try one. You all made this more fun for me. And you DCC people, I would still be in DC without you only dreaming for another 5 decades of running trains like this.

Milwhiawatha , is that what you are discussing, or are there other things I am missing because I don't read all the threads.

[Anonymous]

I think sometimes peoples opinions are fact based and some just won't sugar coat them, while others are more thoughtful an explain in a easier form. This goes anywhere in life, so I don't think it's hobby generated. Just get on a pro football forum, if you know what I mean.    Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Anytime you have people get together in anything, you will have at least one bird of every kind of feather. Not all birds will get along.

Ruined the hobby? I dont think so.

Some of the best learning from others Ive recieved over the years is a very simple gesture where one points at the answer or solution without saying a single word.

Let's say I make a statement that Brass Track is to be avoided at all costs. Does that make me a know it all? Or perhaps a hard sourpuss tired of rubbing the oxidation off the track and swears to get Nickel Silver rails from now on. Back in those days Brass rail was cheaper than NS. Today with the cost of switches especially powered ones rail is cheap.

Just dont get any brass rail if you can help it.

Cheers, Off to feed the birds before winter gets here.

[tomikawaTT]

IMHO, one thing that is discouraging newcomers, and even some of us older folks, is a desire for immediate satisfaction.  Whether this has been influenced by the boob tube (where all problems get solved in an hour, less time for commercials) is a can of worms I prefer to leave unopened.

It is theoretically possible to bring home a bunch of RTR rolling stock, some preassembled buildings and an assortment of sectional track components, slap them down on a sheet of plywood on saw horses and have an operating layout by dinner time.  However, anyone who expects to do that and have the result look like the photos in Great Model Railroads is in for serious disappointment.  Serious model railroading is time consuming, and first attempts are likely to get reworked as knowledge, experience and skill accumulates.  Unless the railroad has been built by professional model builders to be operated by a carefully programmed computer, this isn't a turn-key hobby.

OTOH, gathering that experience and learning those skills is a pleasure in itself, and nothing can match the satisfaction of watching a train roll through some reasonably realistic scene and thinking, "I built that."  It's a satisfaction that many "instant gratification" people will never know.

Chuck (who has been gradually gratified for the best part of six decades)

[metalfrog]

sure do agree with you dave.the problem is how they phrase(articulating) what they are typing.im sure they do know a lot  more than others including myself.terry.........

[grayfox1119]

Milwiawatha: What I think you are experiencing is the "few" people in this hobby that for some reason or other, have an "attitude", as they say today. It may be caused by low self esteem, or a bad day at the office, or at home with wife and/or kids, the car broke down, they lost a girl, etc, etc, there can be as many reasons as leafs on a tree. None of these reasons justify treating fellow MRR's badly, either on the forum or at the LHS, or at a show.

And much of all this is caused by modern western societies that have people stressed to the limits, NOT like yester-year, or as we older guys call it, "the good olde days"

The important thing to remember is, the three "R"s .....Respect for others, Respect for yourself, and Respect for God.

We can only control what we say and do and how "we" react to others.

I for one will never talk down to you or give you a bad time, so you have at least one you can count on, and I KNOW there are many more, just drop in the Coffee Shop some time and see.

[GearDrivenSteam]

Some of it is due to the model railroad "gods". By that I mean those who some of us put so high on a pedestal, they seem almost unreachable. To me, that's stupid. They put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. Once, they too were beginners. Somewhere along the way, next to the rolaids, metamucil and geritol, they've forgotten all that. Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great modelers who are humble enough to make even the most novice feel good. I would think that ALL model railroaders would be glad to see newbies coming into the hobby. It's just not that way, though. I take the model railroad gods with a grain of sand. I've become able to predict almost to the word what they will say next. This forum right here has more of them than any other I visit. In fact, I think I can say there's only one other forum I visit that has any at all. My advice would be to visit more forums. Not to stop visiting this one, but just visit more.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

While there is much in this hobby that I do know, there is also much that I don't know, and at no time do I profess to be a 'know-it-all' about anything. As far as having more money than others to buy things, look at my posts in the beer barn and the coffee shop. I'm very quick to state that I don't have much money. I live on a fixed income of $603 + $37 in food stamps a month. That pays the electric bill, the car car insurance, a loan payment, the cable bill (for my high-speed internet), the groceries, gas for the car and vehicle maintenance. What's left goes for trains. If there's someone else here who can manage their funds in such a way and still buy nice equipment to use with their layout, by all means, step up and be recognized. I am in the process of building a lkayout that is 7' 8" wide, 10' 3" long on the left side and 6' 5" long on the right side. I use a Bachmann DCC system because it gives me basic DCC functions, it's cheap and it lets me run my analog locos as well. IMO, the main thing that is making this hobby harder to afford is prices. $265 for a loco because it has sound? I can live without sound. Take away the sound and it still costs $165. I can buy a descent DCC equiped loco from Bachmann for $55 and be just as happy.

[ereimer]

if grumpy old guys who know it all could kill a hobby , this one would have been dead long ago

if anything is killing this hobby it's the fact that most kids never get to see a train , and therefore have no desire to model one . besides , if trains were any fun there'd be a nintendo or playstation game about them , wouldn't there ?

[Anonymous]

I just discovered this hobby so take this from someone who knows nothing.  I think the guy who creates something from limited resources is the luckiest, in a way, as he is forced to ponder, select and create carefully, at a slower pace.  Isn't the actual pondering, selecting and creating half the fun??  I'd say yes.  And remember, to be offended, you have to take offense.  So choose not to take it.  Filter out the garbage and use the volumes of great information the forum has to offer.

Dave Matthews.

[Milwhiawatha]

I personally didnt mean anything directly to anyone on the list all of you guys that have helped me through my terrible problems are great. Maybe some of the stuuf I find mean and know it all boils down to someone having fun.

I'm more upset over the guys at LHS's saying things to newbies / people who are interested in the hobby that their is one way to get it done and thats it. Or tell someone bachmann spectrums are junk and if its not P2k, Kato etc it isnt worth the money. I agree telling someone how to do it is fine but dont alwya think its the right way.

Example: One of you came up to me in a LHS and asked how to make inclines on a layout and I told about the cookie cutter style and said its the only way, but then you turned and saw the Woodland Scenics incline set and read ot, came bacl to me and asked about it. I would reply no the cookie cutter method is the only way and thats it.

Wouldnt the discourage you? Would you want to be in a hobby were with you first experience or even your second experience be with someone like that? I have been in the hobby shop where a person had atleat 500.00 worth of track, roadbed, and Woodland Scenics incliners set and someone tol him it was junk and that WS roadbed was junk and code 100 isnt right he should buy this and that. Of course I couldnt believe someone was saying this to someoe just getting in the hobby. Sad to say they guy put the stuff on the counter and walked out. I have not seen they guy ever at theHobby Shop.

 

Sorry it was so long winded. But this is what I am talking about more.

[NeO6874]

This will be quite a thread to watch!

For my two cents, I think most people here who may sound like know-it-alls are really just trying to share their experiences with folks to help them avoid the mistakes they've made.  I think the vast majority of people in this hobby want to see others succeed, even if they have trouble articulating it.

yep too much time "playing with trains" and not enough time talking to people...

I have noticed the not so great articulation at points (discouraging), but I've been lucky enough that when I ask a question here , the rude/mean/discouraging posts are outnumbered by the guys who aren't as rude in answering the question... and the rude guy(s) will usually re-articulate their initial post later....

[cmarchan]

I hope my responses do not come off as negative. I will give my two cents (or more) in areas I have the most experience; i.e., one of the DCC people previously mentioned. This hobby led to my career in electronics; I feel it is only fair I give back to this great community. I'm one of the geeks that give the technical jargon - to provide detail in describing the issue and to help to raise more questions. I not only use DCC and other hobby electronics, I taught it at the secondary level here in Florida. It is my goal to help everyone understand DCC, assist in solving problems and give examples of my experience and the experience of others I have witnessed. I may make comments when a myth is spread or something is misunderstood. In such situations, I want to prevent such information from causing grief to others.

For the record, I believe any DCC system you can operate and understand is a good one. I have found the manufacturers to be cooperative and helpful when there is a problem. They all have a stake in the continued success of the growing technology.

I also believe you should be happy with your trains and run them the way YOU want, DC or DCC.

This hobby is a people oriented one. I feel it is one of its most attractive qualities.

[Anonymous]

Here's a strange thought, hobbies are supposed to be f-u-n. In that vein I'll blissfully run my LGB/Lehmann Toytrain stuff (and Thomas & James, Mr. Roger's Trolley, and who knows what else) roundy-round, and the scale/prototype police can all go play with their toys, their way, without me.

And yes, I've taken my toy (gasp!) trains to a bunch of shows, even to a pre-school  --  The kids, and a LOT of adults loved them just as much as me. I think I've had 5 "where can I get one of those?" for every "That thing is stupid"...So just remember mind over matter  --  if you don't mind, what other people think about it doesn't much matter. So don't let a few grumpy olde phartes rain on your parade.

[Shilshole]

I think I've had 5 "where can I get one of those?" for every "That thing is stupid"

Out of idle curiosity, exactly how many times has the "That thing is stupid" phrase been spoken to you?

[Anonymous]

I think I've had 5 "where can I get one of those?" for every "That thing is stupid"

Out of idle curiosity, exactly how many times has the "That thing is stupid" phrase been spoken to you?

Not once.

Neither did I hear that comment made at trainshows with (GASP!!! LEGO TRAINS) Running at top speed.

[Dave Vollmer]

Dave, I have to agree with you, most people are just trying to share their experiences and help the other guy to achieve better too. Some people have ways of expressing their experience in a way that may appear to others as being pushy or overbearing, but there not not many of them. And just as the other post mentioned, you will find them in any group, organization, etc, etc...

BTW, are you still showing your module at the train show in Raleigh this weekend?

That's the plan!  I'm told I'll be up front near the big 3-rail modular layout.

[jacon12]

Milwhiawatha

You have to remember that not all people articulate what they want to say very well.  Sometimes I don't think they even realize how they're coming across on a 'written' forum such as this one.    Believe me, it isn't limited to this hobby.  Try a few advanced photography forums where you post your work.  Some of them will eat you alive.  But even there, not every one is rude.  You have about the same percentage of good and bad that you do here.

Like, I believe, Dave said... Filter the garbage.

There is so much good stuff here and elsewhere in the hobby.

JaRRell

[Anonymous]

Out of idle curiosity, exactly how many times has the "That thing is stupid" phrase been spoken to you?

Let's see.... about the Lehmann Pustefix bubble blowing car, at least half a dozen times.  About Mr Roger's trolley (It's wooden), twice that I remember. Cookie monster car? Once or twice.  And then there is the perennial favorite for the rivet counters to bash, good old James (who has managed to strip a gear, but that was another thread) who has often been called "junk" along with stupid.

BUT, I do so LOVE to hear the cry of "BUBBLES!!!!!!!" from the kids, which more than makes up for it.

[lvanhen]

What I like about this hobby is you can do whatever you want with your layout - it's your railroad!  If you want to count rivets fine - if you dont - that's OK too! - just don't tell me how to run MY choo choos!

 

Yes, there are many good people here that truely want to help their fellow modelers - and a few who just need to "publish".  I've not been active that long, but I have come up with this observation - people who post 30 to 300 or so times a year tend to be helpful and non-condescending - people who post 1000+ times in 6 months or so seem to know EVERYTHING.  I could be very wrong - but I don't think so.

 

A while ago I posted about radius on passenger cars.  I'm limited to a 4x8, yet more than half of the 70 replies told me to use a larger radius, and a few called me stupid in sleightly veiled terms! 

 

Let's cut the BS and just try to be helpful and maintain some kind of decorum.  P.S. My spelling is lousy - cant they put spellcheck in the forum?

[conrail92]

Lately I have seen people acting smug and being Mr. Know It All’s. People ask what happened to kids, and adults getting into this hobby?

 

Im 15 and i greatly liked the hobby since i was 8, And you have too look at both sides of things sometimes it can be hard to express there thoughts with the keyboard. its always hard to tell someones view point when reading there text. And you can realy never know the intentions they had when they made the comments. At the same time people can be a bit smug but not as much on these forums as you would see in real life. I have been to hobby stores where the Workers look at me like im stupid when i ask question that they think would be easy fix.

[on30francisco]

I have found a much more diverse group of people on-line, not only on this and other forums but also from online hobby shops and small cottage industry suppliers, that offer a treasure trove of information on just about any phase, scale, gauge , etc of this hobby. Unfortunately, I have noticed many, but not all, LHSs have an attitude or are cliquish if you aren't modeling or interested in their particular scale, gauge, prototype etc. This attitude I believe is having a negative effect on potential beginners who do not have internet access. Although I've been modeling since the early 60s, if I had to rely strictly on the LHSs in this area for information or equipment for my chosen railroad, I would have a very difficult time participating in this hobby.

[conrail92]

The internet saved me much time and stres. And if i didnt have it i wouldnt think id be where im am today. Because where i live the closet LHS is 15 mins away but its only open Tuesdays-Thursday 4:30-8:00 and the next closet would be 30 mins away and not always easy to acess. Places like this have saved some people from great agony.

[jamesbaker]

Ok I think I see a spot open for me. Oh yes here it is.

I was a newbie at one point in time. Well I am not sure but I think we were all Newbies at one point. Yes I have posted things that have been posted before. I am sure that alot of us have.  If you look through the website you will find more then one of DC or DCC ect.........

But I will say I have used the search here on this site and I will be honest IT DOES NOT WORK MOST OF THE TIME.  I have searched for something that I know is here some where because I have seen it and did not post in it. There for when I search for it, I came up with nodda!

 

I will have to say that the way I was spoken to as a newbie by some of the members here on this site made me want to stop and find another hobby.  Yes us newbies want answers pretty fast. But only because we are excited and ready to leave for a hobby store.  We are like the puppy that pisses on the floor when  company comes over for the first couple of times all because of excitement.

All of the people here that are no longer newbies should take the time to help a newbie insted of telling him to search for it. Maybe some of use did and nothing come up!!


Baker

[Shilshole]

Out of idle curiosity, exactly how many times has the "That thing is stupid" phrase been spoken to you?

Not once.

Neither did I hear that comment made at trainshows with (GASP!!! LEGO TRAINS) Running at top speed.

Neither have I, and I've attended a fair number of shows and other 'mixed' events over the last three decades.  What does stand out from a recent event is members of a prototype-oriented club taking time from running their modular layout --  effectively shutting it down for a half hour or so -- to help diagnose and fix problems with a nearby Thomas layout.

...the perennial favorite for the rivet counters to bash...

Ah.  I see you have an agenda.  You'll understand why I don't believe a word you typed.  But then, it was only idle curiosity.